Microsoft Halting Windows Media Player for Mac

[sushi]

People have been banging on about this for the last 20-odd years. Apple has lost market share, not gained it. Office has little discernable effect on Mac sales as far as I can see.

How do you know that Office for the Mac has not affected Mac sales?

Many folks who have to work on PCs at work need compatability at home. Having Office for the Mac gives them the alternative option of purchasing a Mac for home use. Without Office for the Mac, they would have to purchase a PC to run Office.

As for the alternatives, many are limited depending on the complexity of the documents, spreadsheets and/or presentations. Having Office compatability has allowed many folks to purchase a Mac for the home. And in some cases, get Macs into their work environment.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Did you just accuse all Mac owners of being stupid?

You're gonna have to explain that one. Stop needlessly looking for an argument.

 

[Marky_Mark]

How do you know that Office for the Mac has not affected Mac sales?

If you read my post again, I say 'as far as I can see'. I know a large number of Mac owners and a very small minority use Office, or even have a desire to use Office. Macs simply aren't widely used professionally for Office-type tasks. However, everybody knows their advantages, and therefore their prevalence, in multimedia, design and publishing.

Otherwise, Macs are seen as a computer for leisure pursuits, not grafting on. They are a pleasure to own, use and visually consider, and are used by their owners for activities of choice and enjoyment in their free time, not for writing reports or ploughing through spreadsheets. They spend all day at work on a PC doing that, so when they come home they use Macs for browsing photos, listening to and composing music, editing home movies and so on. If they need to write a letter to the bank, they use AppleWorks or even TextEdit (which is at least as good as MacWrite c.1986 - do you need any more?)

 

[-hh]

Because it's a business and Microsoft wants to make money. The abandonment of Media Player for Mac is just the beginning of Microsoft using its dominant position to control the buying decisions of the masses.

Which is also known as "illegal use of a monopoly power", since WMV is prebundled with Windows.

Hopefully, the EU will sue, since we all know that it won't happen in this Country under the current Political Administration.

This bodes poorly for Apple. Apple is going to have to move quickly and find allies to prevent the money and clout of Microsoft from forcing Media Player and its DRM from becoming the standard.

Agreed. Its as if Microsoft purposefully pulled this plug as "look what you forgot to specifiy as included in our 5 year agreement, Nyah! Nyah! Nyah!".


-hh

 

[-hh]

Where will it end?

I'm talking about these EULAs that are pages long and need the services of an attorney to decipher.

Good grief, this Flip4Mac software is a free app, but they make you agree to all sorts of unreasonable demands for the privilege of using it:

(interesting text)

If ever there was an area of the user experience that demands reform it's these darned end user licensing agreements. Why must we be coerced into agreeing to these contracts for each of the hundreds of software products that we use?

(I'm sure no one but me even cares about EULAs, much less reads them).

I also care about EULA's...this one seems to say effectively that they don't need a warrant if they suspect that you might have illegal content(!)

Interestingly, I didn't see that in the agreements when I installed Flip4Mac - - I actually got a completely blank screen! Anyone else have this one?


-hh

 

[sushi]

If you read my post again, I say 'as far as I can see'. I know a large number of Mac owners and a very small minority use Office, or even have a desire to use Office. Macs simply aren't widely used professionally for Office-type tasks. However, everybody knows their advantages, and therefore their prevalence, in multimedia, design and publishing.

One hundred percent (yes as in 100%) of the numerous Mac owners that I know use Office.

Why because they work for DoD, government or other large corporations. And what does DoD, government and large corporations use...Office.

Additionally, the graphic arts centers, if you will, that I have friends who work at all have Office as well. Why? Because their customers want costing/quotes in Excel and proposals in Word. Some even want the finished product in PowerPoint (Arg!).

Whether we like it or not, Office is a standard for many organizations/corporations. If you choose to deal with them, then you have to interface in the customers environment and not the other way around.

 

[bugfaceuk]

One hundred percent (yes as in 100%) of the numerous Mac owners that I know use Office.

Why because they work for DoD, government or other large corporations. And what does DoD, government and large corporations use...Office.

Additionally, the graphic arts centers, if you will, that I have friends who work at all have Office as well. Why? Because their customers want costing/quotes in Excel and proposals in Word. Some even want the finished product in PowerPoint (Arg!).

Whether we like it or not, Office is a standard for many organizations/corporations. If you choose to deal with them, then you have to interface in the customers environment and not the other way around.

Roll on Office 12 and an XML standard.

 

[-hh]

Roll on Office 12 and an XML standard.

$20 says that they'll pervert XML via "Embrace and Expand".



-hh

 

[bugfaceuk]

$20 says that they'll pervert XML via "Embrace and Expand".



-hh

That they will try is a pretty safe bet. However, European and US government pressures seem to be suggesting not everyone will accept that route. All that said, it's nota dumb bet!

I must admit I am hoping that the combination of PDF and other XML standards will force MS to take other solutions into account.

 

[sushi]

That they will try is a pretty safe bet. However, European and US government pressures seem to be suggesting not everyone will accept that route. All that said, it's nota dumb bet!

I must admit I am hoping that the combination of PDF and other XML standards will force MS to take other solutions into account.

Agree with you on this.

As for market share/usage among Mac folks, it looks like this thread has some interesting data.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/175519/

 

[bugfaceuk]

Agree with you on this.

As for market share/usage among Mac folks, it looks like this thread has some interesting data.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/175519/

Exactly. I think software is becoming far more commiditized. Of course for this process to continue strong and open standards must emerge.

 

[shamino]

You're gonna have to explain that one. Stop needlessly looking for an argument.

Then you should choose your words more carefully.

Since you forgot your own post already:

It's more often than not a 'heart' decision to buy a Mac, not a 'head' one.

You're claiming that Mac owners buy their computers because of gut-feelings without thinking about their decision.

I could make an even stronger claim about PC owners doing that. How many do you know who bought their systems for no reason other than "everybody else is doing it"? Or because a smooth-talking salesman is able to confuse customers with techno-babble?

 

[~Shard~]

I could make an even stronger claim about PC owners doing that. How many do you know who bought their systems for no reason other than "everybody else is doing it"? Or because a smooth-talking salesman is able to confuse customers with techno-babble?

Well said, I've seen it happen many times myself. It's gotten to the point where I'll overhear that type of a conversation in a store and actually start "correcting" the salesman in the best interests of the potential customer he is dealing with. Yeah, they don't like that too much, but what can I say, I'm a bastard...

 

[bugfaceuk]

Well said, I've seen it happen many times myself. It's gotten to the point where I'll overhear that type of a conversation in a store and actually start "correcting" the salesman in the best interests of the potential customer he is dealing with. Yeah, they don't like that too much, but what can I say, I'm a bastard...

You know I used to be a computer salesman many years ago (Amiga/early Home pc days) and the first question I always asked is "What do you want to do with it?". I didn't always sell the most expensive, but always the most suitable (unless the customer was determined, which happened). So I guess you might expect me to have been reasonably unsuccessful? Not at all, I was typically #1. Why? Because that customer would trust me to always sell them what they NEED to do what they WANT.

Many sales guys now just don't know enough to understand the customer's requirements, and understand "hey this guy has no need for integration with the business world, he just wants to surf the web, and I bet if I sell him a Mac I'll be selling him peripherals for the next year because he's going to LOVE this. Hey and next year, he'll be upgrading the machine because Jobs does something sexy, oh and iPod, I'll tell him about this today, in 6 months he will have figured out a good reason to have one all on his own".

So if I worked in a computer shop still, would I sell a Windows PC? Hell yes, if that's what best matched the customer's needs.

But I have to agree with Shard et. al. it's not what I see in most shops these days. They bs around it to hide their lack of knowledge. They probably aren't even selling the best Windows PC for the guy's needs.

 

[~Shard~]

You know I used to be a computer salesman many years ago (Amiga/early Home pc days) and the first question I always asked is "What do you want to do with it?". I didn't always sell the most expensive, but always the most suitable (unless the customer was determined, which happened). So I guess you might expect me to have been reasonably unsuccessful? Not at all, I was typically #1. Why? Because that customer would trust me to always sell them what they NEED to do what they WANT.

Many sales guys now just don't know enough to understand the customer's requirements, and understand "hey this guy has no need for integration with the business world, he just wants to surf the web, and I bet if I sell him a Mac I'll be selling him peripherals for the next year because he's going to LOVE this. Hey and next year, he'll be upgrading the machine because Jobs does something sexy, oh and iPod, I'll tell him about this today, in 6 months he will have figured out a good reason to have one all on his own".

So if I worked in a computer shop still, would I sell a Windows PC? Hell yes, if that's what best matched the customer's needs.

But I have to agree with Shard et. al. it's not what I see in most shops these days. They bs around it to hide their lack of knowledge. They probably aren't even selling the best Windows PC for the guy's needs.

Thanks for the insight - it sounds like you were rare breed, a good salesman! j/k, all I mean is that you actually put the customer's needs first, what a novel concept... But yes, the knowledge of some salesmen these days is just poor. I actually laughed out loud when I heard one young salesman at Best Buy mention to a guy that a fibre cable for his audio system would work really well since it had gold plated connector. Yep, gold makes the light travel faster...

 

[shamino]

Thanks for the insight - it sounds like you were rare breed, a good salesman! j/k, all I mean is that you actually put the customer's needs first, what a novel concept... But yes, the knowledge of some salesmen these days is just poor. I actually laughed out loud when I heard one young salesman at Best Buy mention to a guy that a fibre cable for his audio system would work really well since it had gold plated connector. Yep, gold makes the light travel faster...

... and one guy who tried to convince me that a PCMCIA modem would be faster than a serial-port modem because the connector has more pins.

I tried to explain that a 56K modem isn't going to run faster than 56K no matter how many pins are on the connector. He got all condescending and started accusing me of not understanding technology.

I don't think these kinds of idiots are unusual.

 

[Marky_Mark]

Then you should choose your words more carefully.

Since you forgot your own post already:
You're claiming that Mac owners buy their computers because of gut-feelings without thinking about their decision.

I could make an even stronger claim about PC owners doing that. How many do you know who bought their systems for no reason other than "everybody else is doing it"? Or because a smooth-talking salesman is able to confuse customers with techno-babble?

No, what I'm saying is that the decision to buy a Mac is as much an emotional one as it is a rational decision. Otherwise buyers would merely let the weight of consensus drive them to buy a PC "because that's what everyone else has'. The Mac is a well built, well designed and asthetically pleasing item - it appeals the left brain.

 

[Bern]

I have a friend looking to buy her first computer (yea I know, but she's a Beauty Therapist and up until now never needed one). I suggested to her an iBook given all she wants to do is email, surf the web and write the odd letter or two. She "consulted" with a so called pc expert who told her that Macs are too hard to use, expensive and really only suited to the professional designer or photographer. This seems to be the consensus here in Australia as to why most people don't buy a Mac.

Conversely it seems those I know who do own Macs have done so for completely that reason... reliability. They want something that will enabled them to get the job done without any hassle. The aesthetics was not a key figure in their decision.

 

[Marky_Mark]

I'm obviously not getting my point across very well here. All I'm saying is that there are tangibles and intangibles.

1. I bought a Mac because the hardware is a better quality product than any PC I have used. The industrial design, both in usability and looks is second to none. The build quality is, more often than not, visibly better than any other competing product.

2. MacOS is a better quality product than any other OS I have used (not just Windows). It is well-presented, well thought-out in terms of interface design, and aesthetically pleasing. The security and stability of the OS is far superior to Windows, and so the maintenance and upkeep of the OS is much easier. To be able to use any other OS, you have to know far more about IT than is healthy for the average man in the street. With a Mac, it just runs and runs.

Okay. So this deals with the logical decision-making process. However, I also bought a Mac because they have an undefinable quality which appeals to my emotional side. This is partly because the strengths of the overall package is just a world away from the usual Windows hassle we take for granted and that appeals in it's own right, but there's also soemthing else that attracts. I'm not particularly brand-loyal, so it's not that. I think Apple does a terrible job on occasions. But the Mac stirs something, like a beautiful painting, or a classic car, or a fantastic view - something that you just feel.

So. I don't think 'people who buy Macs are stupid'. I didn't buy a Mac to run Office. I did buy a Mac because it's a great product and it stirs my soul. Enough already.

 

[tjwett]

"halting"!?! i don't think they've touched in 3 years. good riddance, never worked anyway.

 

[DoogieWoogie]

flip4mac flip off

My Quicktime player and WMP do not play audio anymore. It all started going wrong after I installed Flip4mac. I have now Unistalled flip4mac and reinstalled QT and WMP but still no audio!

Update -Quick Time is ok with audio on the Movie Trailers in ITunes but wont play the audio of Jobs Key note speech.

Any help would be very grateful.

 

[sushi]

I could make an even stronger claim about PC owners doing that. How many do you know who bought their systems for no reason other than "everybody else is doing it"?

This is so true.

And for those I've converted, having Office available for the Mac is the key.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

My Quicktime player and WMP do not play audio anymore. It all started going wrong after I installed Flip4mac. I have now Unistalled flip4mac and reinstalled QT and WMP but still no audio!

Update -Quick Time is ok with audio on the Movie Trailers in ITunes but wont play the audio of Jobs Key note speech.

Any help would be very grateful.

I think you're probably missing a codec, somehow. Codecs are what allow media players to decode different types of movies and their associated audio streams, if present. Did you run the Flip4Mac Uninstaller that is found in the Flip4Mac folder? If you didn't, that may also be a cause of trouble.

 

[DoogieWoogie]

I think you're probably missing a codec, somehow. Codecs are what allow media players to decode different types of movies and their associated audio streams, if present. Did you run the Flip4Mac Uninstaller that is found in the Flip4Mac folder? If you didn't, that may also be a cause of trouble.

I did use the Flip4mac uninstaller. If it is a missing codec, its strange that reinstalling QT and WMP didnt work - Can I get codecs from somewhere?

 

[MikeTheC]

... and one guy who tried to convince me that a PCMCIA modem would be faster than a serial-port modem because the connector has more pins.

I tried to explain that a 56K modem isn't going to run faster than 56K no matter how many pins are on the connector. He got all condescending and started accusing me of not understanding technology.

I don't think these kinds of idiots are unusual.

On this, at least, we agree, Shamino...

As Christian as I try to be with my fellow man and as hard as I try, my respect for the general public and individuals in business has wained drastically, and any shred of compassion or humanity I try to exude continues to be eroded at an alarming rate. When I walk into a store and I see someone who obviously works there, where others see an employee in a uniform, all I see is a person in serious need of a frontal lobotomy. I won't even deal with them or say "hi" if I can at all avoid it.

Such, sadly, is life in the 21st century.