Microsoft has shunned USB-C from its new laptop, what does that mean for the future and for MacBook?

Or no practical device supports USB C like mice and so forth. I just bought a new mouse the logitech mx master which I know has bluetooth but I use the receiver which is USB A not USB C. The charger that came with my phone is not USB C as well nor do I feel the need to buy a special cable to use USB C when my iPhone doesn't gain anything from it. Also no car that I know of has a USB C port. Also if we want to start talking about USB C as the next standard Apple better use it instead of making us buy these over priced lightning cables.... Even Anker branded cables are usually around 2-3 dollars more than the micro USB cable of the same length. Also goes for USB C ones as well.

You are right. But changes are usually accompanied with inconveniences. The same was the case when first USB was released (it took some time to gain wide acceptance). USB-C is superior to USB-A/B in every possible way and it solves a lot of issues with the old connector. What would you suggest? Stick with the current situation where you require a bunch of different conenctors/cables for different units? Or take the bitter pill and suffer a bit of inconvenience for the sake of having a single port and cable on the market that can do everything in the near future? What you don't seem to realise is that if no vendor aggressively pushing the new connector, we will never get from the current "well, it kind of works and I am used to it" situation.

And frankly, there is nothing "heroic" in what MS is doing here — they are simply capitalising on user conservatism. Its basically populism. They "give you what you want" by the cost of blocking progress that we bitterly need. Personally, I would like to live in a world where I don't ever need an adapter. Companies like Apple are working towards that future. Products like the Surface line are actively sabotaging that future.
 
so to have usb-c along side with usb-a is far worse than no usb-c? come on..like i said those users were high. If microsoft asked here, we would opt for both to have
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Depends on the business. thank god i moved on. I will replace all of my devices when the new imac is released

Because I'm aching to use USB C? I actually am happy my Macbook Pro 2015 does NOT have a USB C port. USB C is the future but not until more devices uses it which isn't much.
 
You are right. But changes are usually accompanied with inconveniences. The same was the case when first USB was released (it took some time to gain wide acceptance). USB-C is superior to USB-A/B in every possible way and it solves a lot of issues with the old connector. What would you suggest? Stick with the current situation where you require a bunch of different conenctors/cables for different units? Or take the bitter pill and suffer a bit of inconvenience for the sake of having a single port and cable on the market that can do everything in the near future? What you don't seem to realise is that if no vendor aggressively pushing the new connector, we will never get from the current "well, it kind of works and I am used to it" situation.

And frankly, there is nothing "heroic" in what MS is doing here — they are simply capitalising on user conservatism. Its basically populism. They "give you what you want" by the cost of blocking progress that we bitterly need. Personally, I would like to live in a world where I don't ever need an adapter. Companies like Apple are working towards that future. Products like the Surface line are actively sabotaging that future.

But you NEED an adapter to use USB C.....
 
Like in "do you want to pay tons of money for a laptop without decent connectivity and a cheap CPU so we can earn a healthy margin"? I bet they did ;)

I am sure they sent out a nice hand written letter with a SAS envelope for replies as well :)
 
So that means those users are far behind of what usb-c/TB3 means

I imagine they don't see significant benefit, at the end of the day unless you can take advantage of the bandwidth it's just another connection to deal with. Over two years with the Retina MacBook in a professional roles, have yet to come across any peripheral that can natively connect without an adaptor/dongle. From my own experience dongles etc. are around 85% reliable. Personally I'll settle for port's that work and relevant today. If I do require the bandwidth of TB-3 system of choice will also have a reasonable array of common use ports.

So to me there is no rush to USB C/TB-3 as good as it is, and potentially why Microsoft omitted both. Remember this is an enthusiasts forum, most average users simply don't care nor want inconvenience. Just how I see it, given I am not in the market for the new Surface Laptop.

Q-6
 
Back in November when the 2016 MacBook Pro models hit the shelves, I checked them out and...
... bought a 2015 model instead, which of course has all the "old" ports.

It's now 6 months later.
I have not encountered a single USB-c peripheral yet.
I -have- encountered many USB-a devices, and they plug right in!
 
Back in November when the 2016 MacBook Pro models hit the shelves, I checked them out and...
... bought a 2015 model instead, which of course has all the "old" ports.

It's now 6 months later.
I have not encountered a single USB-c peripheral yet.
I -have- encountered many USB-a devices, and they plug right in!

I'm actually picking up a 2015 15" in a couple hours myself.

After a whole bunch of screwing around with all the different models, buying and returning, etc.… I just realized that a 2015 model with all the ports is what I need for now and probably the next year or 2. It's simply more convenient for me right now.
 
There is no port war, USB-C is the new standard.

Not really; if you use your computer in your average work or school setting, you will have a painful time being stuck with only USB-C ports, which is why Microsoft opted out of USB-C for surface laptop IIRC. The average person doesn't even know what USB-C is.

Not saying that I don't like USB-C, I just see it from a realistic point of view.
 
As pretty much everyone knows when Apple released its latest MacBook Pro, there were people outraged that it had dropped ports and was focusing on USB-C

Microsoft, on the other hand, seems to be betting that USB-C will NOT pickup steam soon and instead is sticking with traditional ports for its new laptop.

What does this mean for the future?

What if Microsoft wins the "port war" and Apple brings back traditional ports?

It mean that MS sold a lot of laptops. Was not a complete deal breaker but I jumped ship to the Surface Pro with performance base and am not looking back!

Now it looks like Apple is going to upgrade the MBPro soon . . . . maybe they added some more ports!
 
Like in "do you want to pay tons of money for a laptop without decent connectivity and a cheap CPU so we can earn a healthy margin"? I bet they did ;)
So what does that make a MacBook, value for money LOL

USB-C has not eradicated the need for multiple cables, adaptors/dongles if anything currently is added more confusion

USB-C is just a port that allows USB current and past standards in addition to being used for higher power and other uses eg TB3

As for your other rhetoric on MS :rolleyes:
 
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So what does that make a MacBook, value for money LOL

MacBook does not cost $2200 for a 512 GB version... and the Surface Laptop has hardly any components that would cost more money (sans the i7 CPU, which is around $100 more).

USB-C has not eradicated the need for multiple cables, adaptors/dongles if anything currently is added more confusion

USB-C is just a port that allows USB current and past standards in addition to being used for higher power and other uses eg TB3

Isn't there a contradiction in your post? Even today you can can buy displays, hard drives, USB sticks etc. that could all natively connect to USB-C. The main reason why USB-C has't eradicated the need for adaptors is simply because the market has a lot of inertia. The universal connector exists, this is a fact (even though this connector is not yet 100% perfect). But the market won't change overnight. This is why its in everyone interest to introduce more and more consumer devices that would use the universal connector, as this gives incentives to manufacturers of peripherals to adopt this connector as well. Releasing a laptop in 2017 without a functional USB-C is basically just showing a middle finger to the customer, its saying "yes, we know that there this new thing that is designed to make everyone's life easier, but we don't care". As I wrote before, this is pure populism and abuse of the reactionary attitudes. All it does is delaying a change that would benefit everyone.

As for your other rhetoric on MS :rolleyes:

What of what I said is principally wrong? MS sells overpriced hardware (thats basically an MacBook Air with a cheaper retina screen), lock you into a dumbed-down OS and give you "pro-level" computers with mid-range dual-core CPUs that can't even connect to a fast external storage — while pricing them at the absolute premium end of the market. Their marketing strategy is very smart though, as always.
 
It means we don't use 5 1/4" floppies anymore.

It means, welcome to computers – I/O signals and standards change CONSTANTLY.

Did you rip out your 5 1/4" floppy drive the second the first 3 1/2" drive was off the assembly line?
 
Man - I guess I'm just an old fuddy-dud..

This 2015 15" just feels like "home" and so comfortable.
I also already had someone pop by with a USB flash stick that had a file I needed.
Sure was nice to just plug it in... :)

Only thing I'm mixed on is that I'd like the trackpad to be as tall as the 2016 models, but only as wide as this 2015 one is (or the width of the 2015/2016 rMB 12")

It's sort of like the old 16:9 vs 16:10 on screens. With the trackpads I find use for more height and having it close to the space bar, but not so much on the width.
 
I dont think it means much at all, other than Apple adopts earlier where Microsoft may be designing more with enterprise Clients in mind (the Surface Pro certainly fits that bill - although this particular laptop seems more education-oriented.) Microsoft probably expects the mean life of their systems to be somewhere between 3-6 years. I believe it will take all of that time for USB-C to become the absolute dominate standard, possibly longer.
 
MacBook does not cost $2200 for a 512 GB version... and the Surface Laptop has hardly any components that would cost more money (sans the i7 CPU, which is around $100 more).

Isn't there a contradiction in your post? Even today you can can buy displays, hard drives, USB sticks etc. that could all natively connect to USB-C. The main reason why USB-C has't eradicated the need for adaptors is simply because the market has a lot of inertia. The universal connector exists, this is a fact (even though this connector is not yet 100% perfect). But the market won't change overnight. This is why its in everyone interest to introduce more and more consumer devices that would use the universal connector, as this gives incentives to manufacturers of peripherals to adopt this connector as well. Releasing a laptop in 2017 without a functional USB-C is basically just showing a middle finger to the customer, its saying "yes, we know that there this new thing that is designed to make everyone's life easier, but we don't care". As I wrote before, this is pure populism and abuse of the reactionary attitudes. All it does is delaying a change that would benefit everyone.

What of what I said is principally wrong? MS sells overpriced hardware (thats basically an MacBook Air with a cheaper retina screen), lock you into a dumbed-down OS and give you "pro-level" computers with mid-range dual-core CPUs that can't even connect to a fast external storage — while pricing them at the absolute premium end of the market. Their marketing strategy is very smart though, as always.
Ohh dear see you want to play

Firstly your dodging the bullet, my point was on the MacBook I was happy not to even drag the MBA in to the conversation let alone silly and pointless discussions on OS's differences

It's just biased rhetoric to rant on about MS Surface Laptop when there is the rMB and even the MBA that are both equally both full of cheaper components (using your point) and worse still a design that should of died 2 or more years back IMO.

This is simply throwing stones in glass houses and I own 2 rMB and had bought many MBA's. Yes we all know the entry level SL is aimed at a specific market and no normal private consumer should consider it. MS is right on the point for todays use by excluding USB-C currently and also in providing a separate power point. Whilst you may think MS gave the finger to the new standard apart from being a major contributor it's no different if not worse that Apple equally gave the finger to every consumer who owns legacy devices during this transition period

I have 5 sole USB-C devices and every one of them has a different cable. Ignoring dongles, port adaptors connectors legacy devices etc etc you cant walk out the door with just any one USB-C cable

Even in 5 years or more time when USB-C will be far more adopted simply as the port can be used in many ways by every OEM there will exist multiple cable types that may look the same :rolleyes:

The power limitation of USB-C does not address issues with more powerful laptops it will also never allow you to use your power cable on say a multiple monitor set up just in terms of cable length let alone other considerations

USB-C as a single port (ie no separate power port) option on some laptops will always need dongles and other dangly bits it advances almost nothing in this configuration if anything its a hindrance and ugly solution outside of making laptops thinner. It has also has re introduced the greater need for docking hubs or ports as a solution although truly mobile simple laptop users that crave a minimalist approach are well catered for.

I also think the new all USB-C MBP will remain a stinted device for those that want an even more powerful and capable laptop or greater battery endurance because of the power limitations unless you want some ugly dual power charging

Your simply living in a fantasy world if you think USB-C now or in the future will simplify cable etc options it will be just swapping to a new breed of different looking and more capable cables.

It may well facilitate better designs and give more options and expandability but simplify and make life easier LOL

I'm all for in with the new and out with the old, hence my 5 devices, but at least I still have my feet on the ground and know when I am equally being fleeced by MS or Apple
 
It's just biased rhetoric to rant on about MS Surface Laptop when there is the rMB and even the MBA that are both equally both full of cheaper components (using your point) and worse still a design that should of died 2 or more years back IMO.

I'm not ranting about the MS Surface Laptop. I am ranting about its pricing. Again, rMB and MBA do not cost $2200 for the 512GB SSD version.

Whilst you may think MS gave the finger to the new standard apart from being a major contributor it's no different if not worse that Apple equally gave the finger to every consumer who owns legacy devices during this transition period

The fact is that I can go to the office and connect all my desk peripherals, including power, ethernet, external monitor, two backup disks, iPhone charger, card reader etc. with a single little cable. This is a major quality of life improvement. And I can do it from either side of my laptop, e.g. when I have a mood swing and decide to move my desk to the other wall :p

The power limitation of USB-C does not address issues with more powerful laptops it will also never allow you to use your power cable on say a multiple monitor set up just in terms of cable length let alone other considerations

100W is more then sufficient to charge all but high-end gaming laptops or large workstations. Frankly, I fail to see your point here. Its sufficient for the overwhelming majority of the laptops on the market and offers unquestionable benefits (as in: not having to carry your power adaptor around once USB power delivery becomes more ubiquitous). Yes, larger laptop will still need custom charging. So what?

As to multiple monitor setup. Again, why not? Single display port can feed multiple monitors by daisy chaining. Power delivery can run in parallel.

I have 5 sole USB-C devices and every one of them has a different cable. Ignoring dongles, port adaptors connectors legacy devices etc etc you cant walk out the door with just any one USB-C cable

Because many OEMs are ignoring the standard and producing sub-par cables. Again, you are talking around the issue here. Cable confusion has been present in every single connectivity technology, be it USB or Ethernet.
As the market matures the cable confusion largely solves itself and cables become cheaper. Again, there is a transition period which is always characterised by some degree of inconvenience. The rule here is the same as anywhere: don't buy cheap *** cables.

I also think the new all USB-C MBP will remain a stinted device for those that want an even more powerful and capable laptop or greater battery endurance because of the power limitations unless you want some ugly dual power charging

Up to my best knowledge, no Apple laptop in history required more than 100W of power. From this perspective, your argument is just weird. Its not USB-C that holds the laptop design back, the design has been conditioned by other choices. If you want a more "powerful and capable laptop" (which basically boils down to a high-TDP GPU), you won't be looking at the Apple products in the first place. And as to battery endurance... legal maximal battery capacity for a laptop is still 99.9Wh. With USB power delivery this can be charged in just above an hour.
 
MacBook does not cost $2200 for a 512 GB version... and the Surface Laptop has hardly any components that would cost more money (sans the i7 CPU, which is around $100 more).



Isn't there a contradiction in your post? Even today you can can buy displays, hard drives, USB sticks etc. that could all natively connect to USB-C. The main reason why USB-C has't eradicated the need for adaptors is simply because the market has a lot of inertia. The universal connector exists, this is a fact (even though this connector is not yet 100% perfect). But the market won't change overnight. This is why its in everyone interest to introduce more and more consumer devices that would use the universal connector, as this gives incentives to manufacturers of peripherals to adopt this connector as well. Releasing a laptop in 2017 without a functional USB-C is basically just showing a middle finger to the customer, its saying "yes, we know that there this new thing that is designed to make everyone's life easier, but we don't care". As I wrote before, this is pure populism and abuse of the reactionary attitudes. All it does is delaying a change that would benefit everyone.



What of what I said is principally wrong? MS sells overpriced hardware (thats basically an MacBook Air with a cheaper retina screen), lock you into a dumbed-down OS and give you "pro-level" computers with mid-range dual-core CPUs that can't even connect to a fast external storage — while pricing them at the absolute premium end of the market. Their marketing strategy is very smart though, as always.

And Macbooks are NOT overpriced? They are overpriced if not more so than any Microsoft made product ( in the desktop/laptop business). If it wasn't for battery life I would buy a surface pro over a Macbook any day if the week. Apple can shove USB C down my throat but considering the only device that I own which has a USB C port and/or cable is the Google pixel XL which I didn't even buy. I'm in no interest in buying dongles to use all the devices I need to plug into my laptop.
 
What % of the laptop market does Microsoft have?

Most other laptop vendors are including USB-C in their products.



I don't think Microsoft is selling devices for market share.... Even if they were the surface pro is a better device than the Macbook Pro if you're platform agnostic or don't specifically need Mac OS.
 
Where in the world is the surface pro a better product? And about platform agnostic, my Mac can run macOS, Linux and Windows. Actually I've got Win 10 installed via bootcamp for games. Does your surface pro run the same three OSes?

Let's compare some more:

Actually Microsoft only dares to compare their surface pro to a MacBook Air and iPad pro, because that's the level of hardware they can barely win a comparison.

Surface pro maxes out at 1TB harddrive.
No big deal, just you should know I can get a 2TB SSD for thr MBPro.

Surface Pro maxes out at 16GB RAM, so does the MBPro.

Surface CPU: Core m3, i5 (srsly?) or i7 (yay! same as MBPro).
But for the i7 it's 2.2GHz for the Surface Pro vs the 2.9 MHz of the top MBPro.

OS: Win 10 Pro → argh

Screen:
Surface Pro 2736 x 1824
MBPro 2880 x 1800

Surface Pro Graphics: Intel Iris Graphics (@_@). Full stop. Jeez and they call it "pro"
MBPro 13" has Intel Iris graphics only, the 15" has an Intel HD 530 onboard (inferior) and a Radeon Pro (way superior) variying from the 450 to 460 which still packs quite a punch considering it's low power footprint (but still not really "pro" to be honest).

The speakers on the 2016 MBPro are just phenomenal, really. Even after 5 months I'm surprised every single time about the depth and full bass it delivers, especially when I crank up the volume. The Surface speakers are pretty mediocre.

Camera: Surface 5MP 1080p front facing and 8 MP 1080p rear-facing
Mac: 720p front facing face time HD camera

Surface wins here hands down, but WTF? I never even bothered shooting footage with my iPad that has pretty good camera, so why have even two cameras? This ain't a smartphone… And since you'll be using this for video chatting only anyway there's just no point in having a 5MP or even a 1080p camera in such a device. I live in Tokyo and I have a 2Gbps line at home, but video conferencing in 1080p? Never done that, actually.

Casing: Surface - Magnesium
MBPro - Aluminium (yes that's how you spell it, ask Jony Ive ;-)

You can get a 15" MBPro for a few hundred bucks more than the Surface Pro i7 model, and the Mac will be a much better package. If you shell out the bucks and get the top MBPro, it's just no comparion.
 
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I don't think it means anything to be honest other than Microsoft have made a decision about which ports to use on a certain product. Simple as that. USB-C appears to be the future for laptops so the next MBP will be full of them again.
 
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