Microsoft has shunned USB-C from its new laptop, what does that mean for the future and for MacBook?

[SteveJUAE]

I'm not ranting about the MS Surface Laptop. I am ranting about its pricing. Again, rMB and MBA do not cost $2200 for the 512GB SSD version.



The fact is that I can go to the office and connect all my desk peripherals, including power, ethernet, external monitor, two backup disks, iPhone charger, card reader etc. with a single little cable. This is a major quality of life improvement. And I can do it from either side of my laptop, e.g. when I have a mood swing and decide to move my desk to the other wall



100W is more then sufficient to charge all but high-end gaming laptops or large workstations. Frankly, I fail to see your point here. Its sufficient for the overwhelming majority of the laptops on the market and offers unquestionable benefits (as in: not having to carry your power adaptor around once USB power delivery becomes more ubiquitous). Yes, larger laptop will still need custom charging. So what?

As to multiple monitor setup. Again, why not? Single display port can feed multiple monitors by daisy chaining. Power delivery can run in parallel.



Because many OEMs are ignoring the standard and producing sub-par cables. Again, you are talking around the issue here. Cable confusion has been present in every single connectivity technology, be it USB or Ethernet.
As the market matures the cable confusion largely solves itself and cables become cheaper. Again, there is a transition period which is always characterised by some degree of inconvenience. The rule here is the same as anywhere: don't buy cheap *** cables.



Up to my best knowledge, no Apple laptop in history required more than 100W of power. From this perspective, your argument is just weird. Its not USB-C that holds the laptop design back, the design has been conditioned by other choices. If you want a more "powerful and capable laptop" (which basically boils down to a high-TDP GPU), you won't be looking at the Apple products in the first place. And as to battery endurance... legal maximal battery capacity for a laptop is still 99.9Wh. With USB power delivery this can be charged in just above an hour.

Really not ranting so what was all that rubbish about sub par components on MS products or OS's they are equally as bad as each other at times

You really need to step outside your goldfish bowl, simply OEMs can spec the USB-C up or down to suit their devices. There is not one cable that does all. It has nothing to do with sub par vendors.

Unless you want to include Apple in the list as the Apple USB-C power cable (which comes in 2 varieties btw 29w and 61/87w) and a sub par Chinese version that can be replaced FOC is also not a USB 3.1 or Thunderbolt 3 cable despite having USB-C o each end and this is before you even get to adapters etc that are not without faults and incompatibilities

If you do not understand the implications of power cap and your remark "so what" implies this or a lack of understanding of other users outside your goldfish bowl

I agree USB-C has many pro points but not a one stop solution and different types of USB-C cables will always exist regardless as show by Apple themselves

 

[ascender]

What % of the laptop market does Microsoft have?

Most other laptop vendors are including USB-C in their products.

That's something I meant to mention as well - MS really aren't after or in a position to get market share as things stand. Its not even their core business.

It was a pretty brash statement by them recently where they alluded to the fact that the mixed reaction to the MBP was good news for their hardware sales. Will be interesting to see if they saw any big sales bump because Apple certainly seemed to sell a lot of new MBPs which would suggest not as many people deserted macOS as maybe Microsoft thought would.

 

[leman]

You really need to step outside your goldfish bowl, simply OEMs can spec the USB-C up or down to suit their devices. There is not one cable that does all. It has nothing to do with sub par vendors.

Whether an OEM decided to include particular connectivity protocol over their USB-C implementations and whether a cable supports full USB-C are two very different things. A lot of cables on the market barely or don't at all pass the USB-C spec. Once the situation stabilises, good quality cables will be cheaper and easier to get. Exactly as it happened to USB 3 cables.

If you do not understand the implications of power cap and your remark "so what" implies this or a lack of understanding of other users outside your goldfish bowl

No I don't. What I understand is that all Apple laptops until now have been getting by with ~80W chargers. Now we have a 100W power cap. Sounds fairly sufficient for this kind of computer. If I am missing something obvious, please do explain.
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And Macbooks are NOT overpriced? They are overpriced if not more so than any Microsoft made product ( in the desktop/laptop business).

The 512/8 MB 12" costs $1599. The 512/16 Surface Laptop costs $2199. That is a difference of $600. Component wise, the Surface has a CPU thats costs around $100 more and it also has 8GB more RAM. Or another example, lets look at MacBook Air, which basically uses the same price components as the Surface Laptop (sans the outdated screen). For comparable configuration, you'd still pay few hundred $ less. Not that I am talking about how expensive it is to manufacture the computer, not about its power relative to the price. The MacBook CPUs are of course less capable than their i5/i7 counterparts, but they are priced the same.

Given these facts, your "They are overpriced if not more so than any Microsoft made product" comes over as weird at best.

 

[fokmik]

Its clear microsoft its just a more premium OEM windows...they dont focus enough for their products,they are just into comparing them to Apple..so they lose focus..
surface pro-the device that will replace your laptop
after a while.... surface book the ultimate laptop
after a while...surface laptop a normal laptop
so with time, they some how acknowledge that Apple is doing the right decisions, so im guessing in fall or maybe at max next year, they will put usb-c in their products also

 

[SteveJUAE]

Whether an OEM decided to include particular connectivity protocol over their USB-C implementations and whether a cable supports full USB-C are two very different things. A lot of cables on the market barely or don't at all pass the USB-C spec. Once the situation stabilises, good quality cables will be cheaper and easier to get. Exactly as it happened to USB 3 cables. .

Sorry you need to go back to your original posting

However

I am pro USB-C and we maybe we are sitting on the same sundeck just I am not wearing your pink tinted sunglasses
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Its clear microsoft its just a more premium OEM windows...they dont focus enough for their products,they are just into comparing them to Apple..so they lose focus..
surface pro-the device that will replace your laptop
after a while.... surface book the ultimate laptop
after a while...surface laptop a normal laptop
so with time, they some how acknowledge that Apple is doing the right decisions, so im guessing in fall or maybe at max next year, they will put usb-c in their products also

This would make a modicum of sense if the dates were comparable

Please refresh my memory, how many USB-C ports are on the MBA ? LOL

Yes I agree the MS SP/SB are due a refresh and should include USB-C

 

[jerrykur]

It means nothing. Usb c is the new standard. The bigger question is why is lightning still on iPhones and iPads. Android devices are moving over. USB c provides one cable type for phone, tablets, and computers.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I think USB-C is nice and all that, but I just wish for once that Apple could not follow the "ram it down your throat as the only option" approach and, at least on the 15" models, include a USB-A and an SD reader - maybe an HDMI port, for the next year or two.

That stuff is still super useful to have onboard.
Can't we cater the machines to what users need the moment they buy them and for the year or 2 ahead while also offering future looking ports alongside existing well entrenched tech?



Anyone remember "It Just Works"?
Can we have some more of that please Apple?

 

[leman]

I am pro USB-C and we maybe we are sitting on the same sundeck just I am not wearing your pink tinted sunglasses

Well, I have an annoying habit of ignoring initial difficulties if I believe to see a good pay out in the future But we can certainly agree that USB-C rollout was very bumpy and a lot of mistakes were made (like why no HDMI and audio alt spec from the start? why no stricter cable certifications and clear cable marking guidelines?).

 

[aevan]

The problem I have with USB-C is largely that I work in the "now" and the "now" is not USB-C for the most part.

One day I'll be excited about it, but not at this time.

The change won't be sudden, it will happen gradually, and the transitional period will be long. So, if you're not excited now, you probably won't be excited for a long time.

Oh, but if you work in the "now", you'll be happy to learn that USB-C is working great in the "now". It is fast "now", it is reversable "now", it is compatible with almost any device out there "now" - so, it really works now and offers many benefits. All my USB devices have USB-C cables now and it's really nice.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Oh, but if you work in the "now", you'll be happy to learn that USB-C is working great in the "now".

I have plenty of experience with the new machines and the USB-C situation was anything but great in the now for me

Will have to agree to disagree.

 

[aevan]

I have plenty of experience with the new machines and the USB-C situation was anything but great in the now for me (and my wife).

Will have to agree to disagree.

Sure.

 

[fokmik]

I buy the accessories around my product for the future tech not buying the product around my accessories
Seems that people are the way around

 

[maflynn]

I buy the accessories around my product for the future tech not buying the product around my accessories
Seems that people are the way around

No doubt that USB-C is the future, and imo, it was a misstep by MS to not include it, but you can follow a line of logic that states they made the machine for the present not the future. Yet it is short sighted because if they want you to keep using it for 4 years (which they said something along those lines), then lack of USB-C port will impact that.

 

[fokmik]

No doubt that USB-C is the future, and imo, it was a misstep by MS to not include it, but you can follow a line of logic that states they made the machine for the present not the future. Yet it is short sighted because if they want you to keep using it for 4 years (which they said something along those lines), then lack of USB-C port will impact that.

agreed 100%, and not to mention, that i follow those students who wanted surface laptop and from time to time to be able to hook up an eGPU, but no usb-c/tb3 is making this impossible right?
From what i see, people dont want surface laptop because no usb-c/tb3 and the keyboard alcantara

 

[ascender]

Its a strangely-specced machine, not just in terms of ports, so I'm surprised its being referenced in this sort of thread/question to be honest.

 

[jackoatmon]

Back in November when the 2016 MacBook Pro models hit the shelves, I checked them out and...
... bought a 2015 model instead, which of course has all the "old" ports.

It's now 6 months later.
I have not encountered a single USB-c peripheral yet.
I -have- encountered many USB-a devices, and they plug right in!

That's really weird. All the new gear I've bought this year came with USB-C cables. Plus the cords aren't expensive or anything. And since when was a $20 cord a reason to not have the fastest speeds available? I mean... sure there may be some very minor inconvenience with those who lack the budget to get the cord (can afford a $4000 computer but can't afford a $20 cable??)... but like, if you just buy the cord you get this enormous upside.

I think you're just rationalizing buying an older machine needlessly.

 

[Fishrrman]

jerry wrote above:
"It means nothing. Usb c is the new standard"

It may be Apple's "new standard" for their laptops.

But...

It may not necessarily be everyone else's new standard, at least not yet.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It seems pretty clear to me that some people simply don't have to worry about a large installed based of accessories or things around an office(s) as some of us do.

All the rationalization and discussion and excitement for the future simply doesn't get around the fact for me that I don't interact with or come across any USB-C devices anywhere yet in my multiple workplaces.

Being ready for the future is nice, but not when it instantly creates immediate hassles in day to day.

At some point you can be too far ahead and that's very likely the case for many users. Not all. For some of you it's great to go to the future marker and start buying into all new things and tech. For others, it's not there yet, will take a long time and is out of our control and so we prefer a machine that works best right now and in the near term.

 

[Ethosik]

Up until about a year ago, we were still getting NEW laptops at work with VGA ports on them still. We need to stop this.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Up until about a year ago, we were still getting NEW laptops at work with VGA ports on them still. We need to stop this.

Dropping VGA and going right to USB-C are sort of different discussions.

I agree about VGA though - Oddly enough, I was just at a funeral this last weekend and it was a mad scramble to find an adapter to go to VGA for the slide show projector at the gathering. I hadn't seen something using VGA in a while and boom - there it was... lol

It's sort of amazing how much really old tech you find out in the wild.

 

[Ethosik]

Dropping VGA and going right to USB-C are sort of different discussions.

I agree about VGA though - Oddly enough, I was just at a funeral this last weekend and it was a mad scramble to find an adapter to go to VGA for the slide show projector at the gathering. I hadn't seen something using VGA in a while and boom - there it was... lol

It's sort of amazing how much really old tech you find out in the wild.

Well we will probably have USB-A around for another 10+ years like when VGA stayed past its welcome when alternative and better ports were available.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Well we will probably have USB-A around for another 10+ years like when VGA stayed past its welcome when alternative and better ports were available.

No question - Especially with things like dongles for mice and cheap usb sticks and just so many random peripherals.

There are lots of things for which the benefits of USB-C simply don't apply and the manufacturers will be resistant to change too quickly away from dirt cheap and functional USB-A

 

[Ethosik]

Not really; if you use your computer in your average work or school setting, you will have a painful time being stuck with only USB-C ports, which is why Microsoft opted out of USB-C for surface laptop IIRC. The average person doesn't even know what USB-C is.

Not saying that I don't like USB-C, I just see it from a realistic point of view.

No, it is very easy. USB-C to USB-A hub. Easy, can fit in a laptop bag. I found the older laptops much more difficult. I wanted to use 3 USB ports, but it only had two. Now I have 4 USB-C ports.

 

[UL2RA]

It means zero. Apple does what they want.

 

[Ethosik]

One port can easily become 4 legacy ports. No "major hassles" here: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Device...IMWY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1495127193&sr=8-3

It is not OMG super expensive. Does not require power from an outlet. Can fit in your laptop bag. People are just severely overreacting to this USB-C issue. I needed something like this if I wanted 3+ USB-A ports on my 2013 rMBP. Or Ethernet. Or DisplayPort.