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engineers of his caliber don't jump ship just for money. they leave for exciting and challenging projects.
Unless of course, maybe the team environment is not very unified, or the chemistry is off with the employee/management morale.

I’d also say it’s probably based On how long an engineer has been employed with a specific company. If you have an engineer who is employed…let’s say less than two years and they leave somewhere else, versus somebody who has been with the company 15 years and leaves, it’s likely the outcomes are completely different as to why.

Some people, no matter what their status is in their profession, are just not a good fit in a company, organization, etc. There’s so many details we don’t know behind the guidelines, but we can only speculate.
 
Looks like Apple recently rewarding a select group of employees must have ticked off a lot of people. Look forward to a lot more attrition.
 
Competition is good for us!
I'm all about competition, but poaching employees isn't quite as beneficial. Employees are zero sum. Apple's loss is our loss.

If Microsoft hired a bunch of new engineers that's great because it creates competition. If they take Apple's employees Apple falls behind.

It's good for the engineers though, hope Apple starts paying more.
 
As a chip/SOC architect, I get 2-3 calls a week from recruiters at all sorts of companies.

If you are a chip design person these days the market is hot. They may have just offered him a boat load of cash and interesting work.
What kind of education do you need for this? I'm an IT guy with a BSc in IT, but I've self taught myself the full CS curriculum and have been meaning to go back for a degree. Is it a PhD only field?
 
Could it be M1 Pro was mission accomplished for his team, and another one took over for M2? So instead of stick around in Apple waiting for a new project, he moved on to an active one in MS?
 
If you're not moving jobs every 3-5yrs in the tech industry you're looked at as nuts with no drive. Staying at a company because you enjoy it is rarely a thing in tech anymore unless yours an upper level executive and have already been at that company for a long time.
Going public with a company and creating a career path you love is sometimes a thing in tech where you’ll become an upper level executive and enjoy it for a very long time.
 
At this point in history nothing seems stable anymore. I would not be surprised if water is suddenly air, Jordan Peterson a vegan, Biden announced himself a Republican, and Trump a Democrat, the Christian Pope a Muslim, and Joe Rogan a Covid vaccine believer.
 
Probably years and even then, it might be optimized for only certain aspects of the Azure Cloud architecture (which covers multiple different things both internal to Microsoft and external via partners who re-sell it).

Maybe , maybe not years.

"... Years ago, Microsoft made no secret about its desire to move at least half of its workloads to Arm-based computing platforms in the Azure cloud, importantly including various kinds of services like Office 365, where end users could care less what the underlying platform is. Microsoft seemed content to let one or two Arm chip suppliers emerge, and seemed to be behind Marvell’s ThunderX line and possibly behind the rise of Ampere Computing’s Altra line of chips, but is rumored to be working on its own devices – possibly for its Azure server fleet ... "
https://www.nextplatform.com/2021/03/17/can-graviton-win-a-three-way-compute-race-at-aws/

Microsoft was talked up as being an Ampere customer at this year's Ampere's roadmap meetting.

"... To learn more about our vision and roadmap, you can view Renee James, Atiq Bajwa, and myself discuss it here. We were also joined by some of the top cloud providers such as Microsoft, Oracle and Tencent who discussed their excitement and commitment to Ampere® Altra® and our next generation Ampere processor... "

If jump to about 23 minutes into the youtube video Microsoft Azure manager talks about how using Altra to roll out the early versions of the Azure transition to ARM64. If Microsoft's solution is several years out then they'll be buying up Ampere SoC for a while until they do. Or Microsoft is looking for multiple ARM implementations for Azure. ( could be if one is for Linux loads and another for Windows loads. Azure is mostly Linux. )

If Microsoft started on their own a couple of years ago it shouldn't take multiple years to get something out . Even more so if they used Neoverse as a baseline. ( or X1 or X2 as a baseline).

If Microsoft got frustrated by ThunderX not working so well and Ampere getting a big funding injection from Oracle ( a competitor. ) they may be much earlier in the cycle. ( but Microsoft picked up major chunks of Qualcomms server group several years ago. They may not have needed years to go sour on waiting for a third party. )



Amazon, for example, has their own AWS server CPU family - Graviton - but they also continue to buy pallet-loads of x86 servers every month for their datacenters.
Amazon is deploying Gaviton at a faster rate than they are x86 servers. Pallets of both.

A significant part of this year's Amazon Prime day primarily just ran on Graviton. ( there are some subsystems that are technically part of the whole AWS infrastrcture but some core services load was on Graviton. )

There is still of ton of previously deployed x86 servers in AWS but the dynamic of what is new coming in on pallets to be hooked to the network and "powered on" has flipped dramatically. Most AWS servers get a Nitro card to hook them to the AWS infrastructure. All of those have a ARM core in them also. Even if an x86 server deploy there is ARM cores deployed to provision it.
 
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When do we expect to see Microsoft’s server chip? Intel is really screwed if even their former partner in crime is abandoning them. Microsoft is #2 in cloud, and Amazon is #1 and all in on custom silicon already.

Depends upon what Microsoft is trying to do. Short term they are going to buy. ( have already started doing that with Ampere Altras). [ see post above this one ]

Not just Intel . AMD is on slippery slope too. That's is in part way AMD is doing a 'Bergamo' , high core , lower power/core variant of the Eypc Zen 4 server chips. Selling cloud services is primiarily about lowering cost of computational services for customers. If Intel can't deliver lower operating costs then they will loose out in cloud services placements. Customers will drive their virtual machines and/or containers to the shop that provides the lowest cost at scale. If costs are higher... just get dropped. Nothing personal.

For the hyperscalers with huge dynamic growth Intel is in deep doo-doo . Very deep doo-doo. Intel is largely depending upon server deployments to be relatively slow moving and heavy on inertia ( "ain't broke don't fix it" ) to hold folks in place until they can get their act together. stable small-to-mid/large shops that will probably have much longer transition times which gives Intel a shot to 'right the ship'.

The core issue on timing is when did Microsoft start. If they are just getting serious about doing it by themselves then 3-4 years. If the project has been in flight for 1-2 years and it is a mild dervirative of Neoverse N2 it could be about 10-18 months. ( This Apple person could/would be working on one of the follow on generations. )

Amazon also has a custom DPU/Infrastructure card that is ARM based ( Data Processing Unit / Infrastucture Interface card). [ basically offload the network storage and "back end" work associated with a virtual machine is unloaded off the application CPU. ] Microsoft could be doing a SoC to do that also.

Microsoft probably does more Windows hosting than Amazon (and the other major competitors). A Server SoC skewed to multi-tenant Windows instances could be what they are working on. That probably would have started a couple of years ago because there has been a "server version" of ARM for a while ( that hasn't gotten much traction before. But would have been something could tune a specialized server implementation to. )

Microsolf has been vocally cheerleading some other folks to do a Arm Server implementaion for a couple of years. I don't think they were gaslighting the competition for all of that time. There is probably a mix of Arm server implementations they want for Azure.



I wonder if Apple will make a server chip, even if it’s only for their internal data centers.

More than probably not. Most of what Apple needs to run for their own data center services is Linux. They could either buy "off the shelf" Ampere Altras for that or at worse pull a reference Neoverse implementation with very minimal "touch ups" of their own. Ampere says they are looking to do an even more "cloud" optimized core in 2023-2024. Apple really isn't in the lead here for cloud workloads. ( Neoverse N2 scaled at 60-80 cores under high load from dozens of clients. Apple hasn't demonstrated can do anything near that. )



For XCode cloud Apple can just just stuff M-series Minis and "Mac Pro" (although probably not a classic Mac Pro form factor) into racks. Same chip as shipping to non data center clients. macOS licensing for cloud services is oriented toward more Macs being sold (and racked). Apple quite likely will just do the same thing as they are asking the other MacOS service providers to do. ( Really doesn't build good partnerships to engage is huge hypocracy. Even less so with several antitrusst regulators are itching the throw the "book" at you. )


Relatively though the macOS specific percentage of their cloud service is likely to remove small.
 
And 150,000 of those aren’t high profile engineers. I’m talking about the high profile people they are losing lately. I appreciate the condescension though.
It’s common for people in the tech industry to leave their jobs and go somewhere else. It’s how you move up in the industry.

We hear about this more with apple because we frequent an apple-focused website, and it makes headlines. We rarely hear when apple hires, or when people leave google and Microsoft etc. for apple.
 
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Seems quite a few "key / high profile / valuable - employees" have been leaving Apple lately.

It seems 2021 has been the year of job-switching in general, but I do feel that Apple might be loosing its "you're working at Apple! You're changing the world!" - appeal, and employees treat Apple as Apple treats them: just another major corporate with the inevitable politics...
 
And 150,000 of those aren’t high profile engineers. I’m talking about the high profile people they are losing lately. I appreciate the condescension though.
I think the problem is that you get more of the "this person left Apple" , then the "Apple hired" as its generates more clicks (ppl love to read on "bad" things) , also note he joined in 2019 , which is way way past impacting anything you see today which are great products , lastly , in the peak of engineering , not everyone are at the same level , there can be a real scenario where he was best in class in Intel , got hired by Apple , but when it came down to it , he was not delivering as expected , maybe because he was not good enough , or maybe because his expertise was not needed for the specific projects he worked on , but to think that every hire Apple makes is a home run or that every person who leaves is a major blow , more over by a person that was 2 years in is more of a click bait story then a real one.
 
1) Intel tells us M1 no big deal. Intel and Microsoft poach chip engineers from Apple.

2) Anyone hear of an NDA? Intel and Microsoft won’t be getting secrets only publicly available information and people with a proven track record.
 
These people go where the work interests them, no one stays at one company.

Very true. People read too much into these movements. These engineers leave Apple with allot of knowledge, and allot of NDA's unless they specifically own processes. It's not like they will give Intel a clone of Apple's architecture.

Our oldest child is a Highly Experienced Chem.E. Senior Process Engineer. They have worked in Silicon Fabs, Companies that specialize in CVD Process Engineering, and now as of last summer work for one of the 2 large mRNA manufactures
in their Nano Lipid Particles Process Division.

So, they have really never worked for one company more than 3-4 years over the past 20yrs. Very common in their industry. Although IMO, it will take far more than salary to entice them to leave where they are today. The company simply makes them happier than my wife and I have seen in the past 10 years. Besides, it's not always about the contract compensation. They prioritize their Work/Life Balance more than anything.

It's very likely these engineers are leaving Apple due to a continuing degradation in their Work/Life Balance.
 
This rumoring is just too funny. ?

It certainly is entertaining. All sorts of unsubstantiated rumors suggesting Apple isn't treating people right with some kind of internal discord brewing as a result. The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

In tech, especially in SV, people change companies for myriad reasons, some frequently. It just not a big deal.
 
I'm pretty sure Apple's roadmap for the next 5-10 years is already well underway, meaning that the people leaving now are probably 'done' with their task.
Exactly lol just how Apple said the transition from Intel to M1 will take 2 years, they know what is happening within the next 5 or so years. Which is evidenced by products/features leaking and then coming to fruition in the near or distant future.
 
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Could it be M1 Pro was mission accomplished for his team, and another one took over for M2? So instead of stick around in Apple waiting for a new project, he moved on to an active one in MS?
I don't think he would stay in stand by at Apple anyway... I mean I never heard a company letting people wait for a new project.
 
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