Microsoft Hires Linguist to Oppose Apple's 'App Store' Trademark

[gnasher729]

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'app store' means simply 'store at which apps are offered for sale,'

Go back five years. I tell you "Someone told me that I should use iMovie to edit the movies that I made with my video camera. Where can I buy it"? You say: "You should go to an app store". I say "What on earth is an app store?"

No, that wouldn't have happened. You would have said "You should go to a computer store". "You might try a games store, they might have it". You would never have said "You should go to an app store".

 

[Vegasman]

The real question is why MS is so bothered about Apple using 'App Store'. Historically MS (almost) never used the word App, instead using the word Programs. Surely MS can come up with many alternatives that describe their own store equally well, if not better. Why fight with Apple over this? I can only conclude that it is to spite Apple, or to ride Apple's coat tails yet again.
Even if MS is right, logically, linguistically, I find their attitude over this rather puerile. PR-wise it says to me "Apple, if we can't imitate you, we'll sue you"
MS sinks lower in my opinion by the day.

They are bothered because they want to be able to describe their app store. They want to be able to say:

"We have this thing called Marketplace. What is it? Well, it's a place where you can by apps. Think of it as a grocery store for apps. You know, an app store."

 

[dolph0291]

Programs

Interesting. Microsoft calls these files "Programs" and always has. Nothing called an application exists in Windows, it only has programs. Seems maybe MS is a little late to this game, and they're gonna piss all over it for everyone else.

 

[israelagm]

and...

Thought it was clear so I'll try again.

Notice the iTunes.exe in the middle? It being the actual program but is denoted as Application.

Right... but your still using iTunes, an Apple 'application'. I think I would understand your point and your point would be made clearer if you showed a Windows program/software or any third party program/software that describes the file type as an "Application." If there are any, because I haven't used a windows in a few years. I'd boot up the old PC and check myself but I rather not.

 

[gnasher729]

If Apple wins this argument, obviously that would prevent MS from calling theirs the "App Store" - but can they still use the phrase descriptively? I.e. "Welcome to App Market, Microsoft's app store."

If they can't (and Microsoft, Google, Blackberry etc. all trademark the others, App Shop, App Market etc.), then how do you describe what the App Store/App Shop is? I can't think of a more generic variant which could be used to describe it. "Windows" is an OS. "Internet Explorer" is a browser. "Office" is an application suite. "App Store" is...errr... an app store.

Application store. Software store. If you want to use the word store. But there is no need to. App Market is clear enough, isn't it? A market is a friendly, open place where you buy a variety of things at good prices, not walled in and regulated like a store. I'd say "Welcome to App Market, the place where you find all the software you need".

 

[Vegasman]

Go back five years. I tell you "Someone told me that I should use iMovie to edit the movies that I made with my video camera. Where can I buy it"? You say: "You should go to an app store". I say "What on earth is an app store?"

No, that wouldn't have happened. You would have said "You should go to a computer store". "You might try a games store, they might have it". You would never have said "You should go to an app store".

You would not have said "What on earth is an app store?". You would have said "Where is it?" because you would have known it is a place that sells apps/applications. Why? Because it is descriptive. And that is the point of the argument.

 

[logandzwon]

Right... but your still using iTunes, an Apple 'application'. I think I would understand your point and your point would be made clearer if you showed a Windows program/software or any third party program/software that describes the file type as an "Application." If there are any, because I haven't used a windows in a few years. I'd boot up the old PC and check myself but I rather not.

XP shows them with the same names, but it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. There is no "App Store" in the screenshot.

 

[davelanger]

Thought it was clear so I'll try again.

Notice the iTunes.exe in the middle? It being the actual program but is denoted as Application.

iTunes is made by APPLE so of course its going to have application as the file names. Show a MS production that uses application as a term.

Again why cant MS just call is their MobileApp store? Adding mobile to the front of app would solve their problems no?
Or add WinApp Store. Why isnt MS doing that?

Its because they want to take a shot at apple, its the only small victory they can get since osx is better than windows, and of course the ipod is better than their joke of am mp3 player Zune.

 

[ECUpirate44]

Remember when Jobs and Gates met for an interview with All Things Digital a few years back? I wonder if things like this tarnish their friendship or if they consider it to be strictly business.

 

[cube]

Interesting. Microsoft calls these files "Programs" and always has. Nothing called an application exists in Windows, it only has programs. Seems maybe MS is a little late to this game, and they're gonna piss all over it for everyone else.

Applications are a type of program. They have been called so since the dawn of time.

 

[AAPLaday]

Damn i wish i was smart enough to be a lawyer. Lots of money to be made!

 

[logandzwon]

RoomStore too.

Here is the TM for for RoomStore;

Word Mark ROOMSTORE
Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: retail furniture store services. FIRST USE: 19920000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950000
Mark Drawing Code (5) WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS IN STYLIZED FORM
Serial Number 75199278
Filing Date November 18, 1996
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition September 30, 1997
Registration Number 2123451
Registration Date December 23, 1997
Owner (REGISTRANT) Richard B. Levitz Sons, Inc. CORPORATION TEXAS 502 Fountain Parkway Grand Prairie TEXAS 75050

(LAST LISTED OWNER) ROOMSTORE, INC. CORPORATION VIRGINIA 12501 PATTERSON AVE. RICHMOND VIRGINIA 23233
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record R. JOEL ANKNEY
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20071101.
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20071101
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


However, I'm not sure this really is applicable to this conversion as the roomstore does not sell rooms, it sells furniture.

 

[URFloorMatt]

After a bit of thought I think I'm siding with Apple... here's why:

The strongest argument I've read against the trademark is that 'App Store' is describing the very thing it actually is. Someone likened this to renaming 'Windows' to 'Operating System'.

However what isn't appreciated is that 'App' is in itself an abbreviation. It's debatable whether apple popularised it or not but thats not the point. Basically it would be like renaming 'Windows' to 'Ope System'.

I'd argue that 'Ope System' could be trademarked whereas 'Operating System' couldn't...

Disagree because "Ope System" is not the accepted abbreviation: "OS" is. Do you think Microsoft should be able to rename Windows OS and then trademark OS? Of course not, and accordingly Apple shouldn't get a trademark on App Store.

Apple should lose this dispute on the merits. Whether they do or not will depend on the caliber of their lawyers. On the two briefs we've seen so far, Apple clearly has some advantage, so they might pull this out nonetheless.

 

[logandzwon]

iTunes is made by APPLE so of course its going to have application as the file names. Show a MS production that uses application as a term.

Again why cant MS just call is their MobileApp store? Adding mobile to the front of app would solve their problems no?
Or add WinApp Store. Why isnt MS doing that?

Its because they want to take a shot at apple, its the only small victory they can get since osx is better than windows, and of course the ipod is better than their joke of am mp3 player Zune.

That is MS Explorer calling the iTunes.exe file an Application. It has nothing to do with Apple. Anything ending in .exe will have the same description.

It's all irrelevant to the conversation though... we are discussing "App Store" not "Application."

 

[dolph0291]

They are bothered because they want to be able to describe their app store. They want to be able to say:

"We have this thing called Marketplace. What is it? Well, it's a place where you can by apps. Think of it as a grocery store for apps. You know, an app store."

In the Windows world, it would be a Program Store. Look at any Windows computer and there's nothing called an application or an app. MS claims to have, like 95% of the desktop market. How would the gazillion Windows users out there even know what an "app" was? They've had zero exposure to it, it's a totally foreign term. Wait a minute, it's an Apple term that is coming into common usage and now MS might have to change their language to get rid of the goofy term "program", conceding defeat, so its usage must be stopped or curtailed. That's what this is really about.

 

[Vegasman]

Right... but your still using iTunes, an Apple 'application'. I think I would understand your point and your point would be made clearer if you showed a Windows program/software or any third party program/software that describes the file type as an "Application." If there are any, because I haven't used a windows in a few years. I'd boot up the old PC and check myself but I rather not.

I think he used iTunes as an example because it is something that Mac users would be familliar with as opposed to some other application that you would look at and say "WTF is that?"

Anyway, an .exe in Windows is refered to as an "application". A "program" is a collection of files that includes one or more .exe and possibly other files. This has been the case since Windows XP (possibly earlier).

 

[davelanger]

That is MS Explorer calling the iTunes.exe file an Application. It has nothing to do with Apple. Anything ending in .exe will have the same description.

It's all irrelevant to the conversation though... we are discussing "App Store" not "Application."

So answer my 2nd question.

Why not just have call is the Mobile App Store? or WindApp store?
Why does MS need to copy Apple and just call it App Store?

 

[cube]

Apple popularized the term "App" instead of "Application" (ugh!).
How come they don't have a trademark on the word "App"? (That would solve the problem.)

 

[ericmooreart]

What about the Container Store, which is trademarked? Seems like the difference is whether or not the term is in common use before the trademark is filed.

Thats a pretty good point. But After some research I found they trademarked the phrase "THE Container store" not Container Store.

 

[OneMammoth]

I don't claim to know a thing about trademark law, but looking at this simply I find it difficult to understand how the term "Windows" can become a trademark but "App Store" cannot.

"Windows" is not the definition of the thing itself, as "App Store"

 

[Al Coholic]

I don't claim to know a thing about trademark law, but looking at this simply I find it difficult to understand how the term "Windows" can become a trademark but "App Store" cannot.

I have nothing to back this up but I'm thinking one never sees the word "Windows" without Microsoft accompanying it somewhere. It's more of a phrase which can indeed be trademarked.

Could be wrong of course.

Also of note is an attempt to own the word "Thunderbolt". I don't think one can copyright the weather.

 

[dr Dunkel]

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I'm 100% with M$ on this one. Apple's case would never hold here.

 

[dolph0291]

Disagree because "Ope System" is not the accepted abbreviation: "OS" is. Do you think Microsoft should be able to rename Windows OS and then trademark OS? Of course not, and accordingly Apple shouldn't get a trademark on App Store.

Apple should lose this dispute on the merits. Whether they do or not will depend on the caliber of their lawyers. On the two briefs we've seen so far, Apple clearly has some advantage, so they might pull this out nonetheless.

Apple has always had apps, Windows has programs and never had apps. MS NEVER called them apps or applications. Until now. They have no basis for this claim, the word "app" is as foreign to the windows world as a cron job.

 

[gnasher729]

You would not have said "What on earth is an app store?". You would have said "Where is it?" because you would have known it is a place that sells apps/applications. Why? Because it is descriptive. And that is the point of the argument.

It looks descriptive to you because there is an App Store for your Mac and there is an App Store for the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad. If Apple hadn't invented the term "App Store" and used it for its super successful site, you would never have heard the term, and you wouldn't know what it means.

Applications are a type of program. They have been called so since the dawn of time.

When you take some facial cream and put it on your face, that is called "application". When you take some abstract idea and turn it into practice, that is called "application". When you fill out a form to get a passport, that is called "application". "application" is a word with many meanings.

 

[rotobadger]

Thats a pretty good point. But After some research I found they trademarked the phrase "THE Container store" not Container Store.

As posted above, "RoomStore" is trademarked, however.