Microsoft Introduces Thinner Surface Pro 3 with 12" Display Starting at $799

[spinedoc77]

Haven't kept up with the last 10 or so pages, but I know some were complaining that the weight comparison between the MBA and SP3 did not include the cover.

Here's a discussion of the weight with the cover AND The stylus versus the MBA.

http://www.zdnet.com/surface-pro-3-thinner-lighter-more-flexible-7000029700/

Granted it's the 13"MBA so you are talking about a larger screen, which may be an acceptable and probably predictable trade off for some.

 

[Digital Skunk]

According to Microsoft the Surface Pro 3 weighs 800 grams which is about 1.76 pounds. The type cover 2 weighs .55 pounds. So it's about the same weight as the 11.8" MBA (2.38 pounds) and lighter than the 13" Air (2.96 pounds). Also according to Ars Technica the battery life is 9 hours. That's the same as the 11.8" Air and less than the 13"Air (12 hours). Considering the Air has what I would consider a real keyboard and trackpad I'll take the slightly heavier weight.

Saying this is like me comparing the Mac Pro to the rMBP . . . . . just two different products that in my mind come very close to being similar, but in reality they are NOTHING alike and don't serve the same purpose.

Trying to fit the Surface Pro into the nearly naked MBA lineup and then not understanding why one would get a Surface is just maddeningly unnecessary.

I don't get this whole "laptop replacement" nonsense. As far as I'm concerned the Surface Pro IS a laptop, so I'm not sure what it's replacing. It's just another version of a laptop. Until Microsoft advertises it without the kickstand and keyboard and in portrait orientation I don't consider it replacing anything.

Yet not that long ago everyone understood that concept just fine when SJ said it.

No, Microsoft wants to be Apple.

True, and Apple is heading down a path that would turn it into MS or Android and they are resisting it to the point of implosion.

Apple's product line has been utterly stagnant and reminiscent of 2009 for years.

 

[zhenya]

Also agreed, and this is what I hope Tim Cook gets.

All of the Apple products are nice, wicked nice, but I can't load my daily bag with a 15" rMBP, iPad Mini, iPod Touch, iPhone, and a host of 3rd party products and devices to get those 4 devices to do what I need.

On the other hand, I have a drop in two devices that cross over much of what i need to do and my bag becomes a lot lighter.

Maybe Cook will swallow his pride and come to terms with MS actually trying to usher in the "post-PC" era and start putting all of the missing functionality into the tablet and smartphone devices.

Why do you need an iPod and an iPhone?

Drop to a 13" laptop and you'll have a far better experience than the Surface at what, the cost of 1, maybe 1.5lbs? Drop to an Air and you are at parity. The iPad mini is so light that it barely counts as the weight of most peoples bags dwarfs the weight of the mini so much that you couldn't tell if it was in there or not.

 

[LordVic]

Can't argue with that. Aren't most banks still using 20-30 year old solutions as the basis for their systems, if not older, precisely because they don't dare to lose compatibility with ancient legacy implementations used when they first went the digital route? Because what would happen if all that magical data that is our monetary system today went up in a puff of lost data smoke, right? That's a totally separate discussion so I don't think we should get into it here, but I totally get that actual financial institutions are basically stuck in the past held hostage by this stuff. I am talking about doing business, not effectively holding the entire world's economy in the balance by trying to develop OSX solutions for it. That would just be silly.

yeah, Banks and financial institutions are very VERY stand offish for new technology.

If what they have now works, exactly as they want it to, and has been working for years. Why replace it? Banks Tend to have very lengthy upgrade processes and cycles. lots of Change management. Lots of UAT testing. They're of the mindset "if the OS has worked for 10 years, I'm not going to replace it unless you have a really damned good reason to replace it".

its not entirely a bad thing though. we're talking about institutions resposnible for tracking and maintaining most of the worlds finances. You really want them to be using latest "bleeding edge" technology, just because it's new? New always brings in new bugs and issues. not something you want your financial institution to be dealing with.

Dont get me wrong, I've been dealing lately with helping move some of these clients off using XP for their machines to at least windows 7. "What do you mean you can't support our XP terminals anymore?"

 

[Michael Goff]

Saying this is like me comparing the Mac Pro to the rMBP . . . . . just two different products that in my mind come very close to being similar, but in reality they are NOTHING alike and don't serve the same purpose.

Trying to fit the Surface Pro into the nearly naked MBA lineup and then not understanding why one would get a Surface is just maddeningly unnecessary.



Yet not that long ago everyone understood that concept just fine when SJ said it.



True, and Apple is heading down a path that would turn it into MS or Android and they are resisting it to the point of implosion.

Apple's product line has been utterly stagnant and reminiscent of 2009 for years.

That's funny when you think about it. Microsoft wants to be Apple who is becoming Microsoft.

 

[spinedoc77]

I don't know. It is a showcase. In addition, it has been priced more agressively than the previous version.

According to Microsoft, 96% of the people who own a tablet also own a laptop. That's a huge market they have set their eyes on. Of course, some of these people will still want both a laptop and a tablet. But some may prefer to buy a product that combines both.

Conversely, Apple sells 50-60M iPads a year and that means a majority of them must use Windows laptops and not Macs, right?

This is a way for Microsoft to get that user to buy a S3 and maybe not buy the next iPad by giving them some tablet features for "free."

This is the most interesting part of the story IMO. IMO there are a LOT of users out there who feel as if they have been sacrificing by having an ipad all these years. I know the very day the first windows tablet was released I was there with cash in hand, and I never ever looked back at the ipad. How many users remain to be seen, but for someone with the decision of buying a laptop and an ipad this may certainly be an enticing option.

I know the "simplicity" of the ipad gets touted a lot, but there may be another side of the equation, consumers who want a tablet but don't want the simplicity but there was nothing else available, such as myself. It seems this is what MS is banking on, and there may just be enough of us to make it profitable for MS. As mentioned the majority of those ipad users will also be in the windows ecosystem so it won't be a sell based on OS but rather on hardware IMO.

 

[sracer]

I think the whole lap thing is overblown. The SP isn't perfect in a lap but it's usable and personally the only time I've actually had to keep the thing on my lap is waiting for my flight at airports. Most of the heavy lifting has been done on desks in hotel rooms, airplane tray tables, or desks at conferences where I have a flat surface.

The type cover's keyboard has always been great. The drawback has always been the trackpad and hopefully they fixed it this go around.

And after integrating my workflow into OneNote in 2013, that stylus is a must. If I need to draw a schematic, or do a markup, or take notes at a conference, no way am I using my finger. I'm taking the keyboard off and treating the device like a clipboard.

Panay said that he heard the comments about the trackpad on the TypeCover2, but there doesn't appear to be any trackpad buttons on the TypeCover3... so I'm left wondering what comments he heard.

I love the TC2, but that trackpad... oy!

I'm also diggin' that OneNote is available on so many platforms... except that inking is only supported on Windows.

 

[spinedoc77]

yeah, Banks and financial institutions are very VERY stand offish for new technology.

If what they have now works, exactly as they want it to, and has been working for years. Why replace it? Banks Tend to have very lengthy upgrade processes and cycles. lots of Change management. Lots of UAT testing. They're of the mindset "if the OS has worked for 10 years, I'm not going to replace it unless you have a really damned good reason to replace it".

its not entirely a bad thing though. we're talking about institutions resposnible for tracking and maintaining most of the worlds finances. You really want them to be using latest "bleeding edge" technology, just because it's new? New always brings in new bugs and issues. not something you want your financial institution to be dealing with.

Dont get me wrong, I've been dealing lately with helping move some of these clients off using XP for their machines to at least windows 7. "What do you mean you can't support our XP terminals anymore?"

The bank my wife is a manager of is currently migrating to Windows 7, I know because she is home every night pulling her hair out with the IT dept, lol. This is a major world wide bank.

You would be amazed at just how bad some banks technology is, utterly horrible. Most of the stuff she does which should be computerized is still done with paper and pen, it's insane the man hours they completely waste by not being up to date.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

yeah, Banks and financial institutions are very VERY stand offish for new technology.

If what they have now works, exactly as they want it to, and has been working for years. Why replace it? Banks Tend to have very lengthy upgrade processes and cycles. lots of Change management. Lots of UAT testing. They're of the mindset "if the OS has worked for 10 years, I'm not going to replace it unless you have a really damned good reason to replace it".

its not entirely a bad thing though. we're talking about institutions resposnible for tracking and maintaining most of the worlds finances. You really want them to be using latest "bleeding edge" technology, just because it's new? New always brings in new bugs and issues. not something you want your financial institution to be dealing with.

Dont get me wrong, I've been dealing lately with helping move some of these clients off using XP for their machines to at least windows 7. "What do you mean you can't support our XP terminals anymore?"

Yeah we definitely agree here, that was my point

----------

The bank my wife is a manager of is currently migrating to Windows 7, I know because she is home every night pulling her hair out with the IT dept, lol. This is a major world wide bank.

You would be amazed at just how bad some banks technology is, utterly horrible. Most of the stuff she does which should be computerized is still done with paper and pen, it's insane the man hours they completely waste by not being up to date.

Yeah, but these huge financial institutions need to conservative, they hold the world's economy in their hands in this day in age. Like LV says above, they can't afford to be progressive from a socio-economic and worldwide political standpoint it just isn't possible for them, because if something goes terribly wrong, there is all the imagined wealth in the world gone. It's like that Fight Club end scene, economic armageddon!!

 

[LordVic]

Yeah, but these huge financial institutions need to conservative, they hold the world's economy in their hands in this day in age. Like LV says above, they can't afford to be progressive from a socio-economic and worldwide political standpoint it just isn't possible for them, because if something goes terribly wrong, there is all the imagined wealth in the world gone. It's like that Fight Club end scene, economic armageddon!!

Thankfully there is enough redundancy, disaster recovery and government regulation (at least in canada) to help avoid such disaster.

 

[spinedoc77]

Yeah we definitely agree here, that was my point

----------



Yeah, but these huge financial institutions need to conservative, they hold the world's economy in their hands in this day in age. Like LV says above, they can't afford to be progressive from a socio-economic and worldwide political standpoint it just isn't possible for them, because if something goes terribly wrong, there is all the imagined wealth in the world gone. It's like that Fight Club end scene, economic armageddon!!

Thankfully there is enough redundancy, disaster recovery and government regulation (at least in canada) to help avoid such disaster.

She has a nice contrast because she has managed more than one bank. Her last bank was computerized to the maximum, so she spent very very little time working on that and could spend more time on customer relations and sales. Her new bank which is very antiquated requires much more time spent doing minutiae instead of making money for the bank. She says some days she will spend her entire 8 hours just filling out paper forms and filing, hopefully migrating to Win7 will make her life easier.

 

[Eidorian]

Also agreed, and this is what I hope Tim Cook gets.

All of the Apple products are nice, wicked nice, but I can't load my daily bag with a 15" rMBP, iPad Mini, iPod Touch, iPhone, and a host of 3rd party products and devices to get those 4 devices to do what I need.

On the other hand, I have a drop in two devices that cross over much of what i need to do and my bag becomes a lot lighter.

Maybe Cook will swallow his pride and come to terms with MS actually trying to usher in the "post-PC" era and start putting all of the missing functionality into the tablet and smartphone devices.

Any advice on what to use to replace Garageband to edit my podcast? Price does not really matter to me. I just want advice for a replacement.

Just like computers were going to replace paper only to generate more, we're seeing another glut of multiple devices that were supposedly going to provide convergence splitting off into carrying around multiple devices.

 

[linuxcooldude]

As a side note, it makes me wonder: is it aimed at competing with Macs instead. After all, Microsoft targeted Apple for all its criticism during the event.

But they are competing with people with the iPad & MacBook Air. It seems like a strange way of advertising it.

 

[HenryDJP]

Any advice on what to use to replace Garageband to edit my podcast? Price does not really matter to me. I just want advice for a replacement.

Logic Pro X.

 

[Eidorian]

Logic Pro X.

I do not believe that runs on Windows.

 

[pacalis]

I think this device destroys all the Apple laptop devices with nearly no compromise.

It's lighter than a MBA, but also has performance that is comparable to the low and midrange rMBPs.

Plus touch/pen support. Plus a dock. I think MS has really hit it out of the park.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Why do you need an iPod and an iPhone?

Battery life on the iPhone is limited.

Drop to a 13" laptop and you'll have a far better experience than the Surface at what, the cost of 1, maybe 1.5lbs? Drop to an Air and you are at parity. The iPad mini is so light that it barely counts as the weight of most peoples bags dwarfs the weight of the mini so much that you couldn't tell if it was in there or not.

I could do that, but in the end I'd leave the keyboard at home with the Surface, and then I'd have both a 13" rMBP/Air and tablet combo. This tablet however has real pen input and this laptop has a touch screen.

There are tradeoffs.

That's funny when you think about it. Microsoft wants to be Apple who is becoming Microsoft.

Yes indeed. I never thought I see the day that MS would be playing underdog to Apple. After a while it was fun to see Apple on top, but now they've really just become the MS of the early 2000s . . . complacent.

The Mac Pro was a nice bone . . . . for me anyway.

Any advice on what to use to replace Garageband to edit my podcast? Price does not really matter to me. I just want advice for a replacement.

Just like computers were going to replace paper only to generate more, we're seeing another glut of multiple devices that were supposedly going to provide convergence splitting off into carrying around multiple devices.

That's hard, only because Garageband and it's big brother Logic have some really good alternatives, but it will always be up to the end user. I'd start by looking at Abelton, Audacity, CuBase, and other "higher end" solutions. They cost, but much better than any of the out lying apps.

p.s. I am not as well versed in audio apps as I am video and motion graphics.

And yes, there was a time we were heading down toward the "one device to rule them all" universe but now we are back up to loading 3-4 devices in our bags.

Two would be a good number at the very least.

 

[HenryDJP]

I do not believe that runs on Windows.

I do not believe you asked for Windows software.

----------

I think this device destroys all the Apple laptop devices with nearly no compromise.

It's lighter than a MBA, but also has performance that is comparable to the low and midrange rMBPs.

Plus touch/pen support. Plus a dock. I think MS has really hit it out of the park.

Well here's the preordering page. Knock yourself out.
http://surface.microsoftstore.com/s...ductDetails/Surface-Pro-3/productID.300190600

 

[skaertus]

I wanted to get a MacBook Air to replace my existing Macbook and Nexus 7 for mobile use. Then I considered the 13" Retina Macbook Pro. Now I really want a Surface Pro 3. I plan on getting a phone with a larger screen to take care of what I'll lose ditching the Nexus 7. I love the tablet but it's too much to carry when it's 3 devices.

Definitely.

I always felt this way about the iPad. The iPad is nice and convenient. However, it cannot replace neither my laptop nor my iPhone. The end result is that, as I don't want to carry all these devices with me, I leave the iPad in the drawer while I take the iPhone and the laptop with me every day. It would be nice if the laptop also had the functionality of the iPad. If it doesn't, well, it doesn't and I get by without it. But if it had, it would be better.

 

[MyopicPaideia]

Exactly. Hence a Macbook is not an option for someone looking for a device like this, so it does not matter if the Macbook is a better laptop or not. A Ferrari (yea, this thread is way overdue a flaky car analogy) might be the bee's knees when it comes to performance motoring, but if I'm looking for something to transport my family of six and two dogs, it is not in the competition.

And I do not think that MSFT is trying to push this as an alternative over the iPad for couch slouchers. In fact, I'm quite sure that anyone buying it for such use will be heavily disappointed.

So why did Microsoft compare it to an MBA the entire keynote? It is Microsoft saying it is an MBA competitor, not anyone here. That is how they are positioning it. They have priced it against the MBA, weighed and measured it against the MBA, tried to show it works just as well in your lap as an MBA, and told you it was a tablet that is better than the iPad.

If you disagree that the product should be marketed this way, then go argue the point with Microsoft. Those here who are saying it does compete with the MBA are just repeated what Microsoft themselves have proclaimed.

They want the iPad/MBA combo user to buy an SP3 instead. You and I agree that that is a bit far fetched, but that is what they are selling.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

lol. Following your logic, how much did Apple lose by distributing Maverick for free? And yes, MS gives service packs and .xx updates for free. Do Apple charge for them?

1. Operating systems are not a part of Apples core business - but they are microsofts.

2. 8.1 was a lot more than a service pack. They had to make it free because 8 was so bad.

 

[skaertus]

This is the most interesting part of the story IMO. IMO there are a LOT of users out there who feel as if they have been sacrificing by having an ipad all these years. I know the very day the first windows tablet was released I was there with cash in hand, and I never ever looked back at the ipad. How many users remain to be seen, but for someone with the decision of buying a laptop and an ipad this may certainly be an enticing option.

I know the "simplicity" of the ipad gets touted a lot, but there may be another side of the equation, consumers who want a tablet but don't want the simplicity but there was nothing else available, such as myself. It seems this is what MS is banking on, and there may just be enough of us to make it profitable for MS. As mentioned the majority of those ipad users will also be in the windows ecosystem so it won't be a sell based on OS but rather on hardware IMO.

I agree with you. It makes sense from my perspective.

When I am using my iPad, I often feel the need to go to my MacBook Pro to use some functionality the iPad is lacking and I wish it had. I don't need an iPad or another tablet. As I see it, the iPad is a beautiful product for which Apple created a specific niche to fit it in. It is some sort of a solution in search of a problem.

 

[spinedoc77]

Yes indeed. I never thought I see the day that MS would be playing underdog to Apple. After a while it was fun to see Apple on top, but now they've really just become the MS of the early 2000s . . . complacent.

I think it's awesome. Apple is very complacent, releasing the same rehashed product over and over again. Microsoft is trying very hard to innovate.

 

[wookiee2cu]

I wish the i7 versions would be available before 8-31, guess I got to wait a little while longer. I've been using my iPad 2 for work now and then but I'm barley getting by with it and can just do the minimum. The iPad is great but it's not really meant for business purposes, more of entertainment... at least for me anyways. The battery on my iPad 2 seems to be dying, I say that because it won't hold a charge as long as it used to, just need it to hold out until the end of summer

 

[SlCKB0Y]

It's lighter than a MBA, but also has performance that is comparable to the low and midrange rMBPs.

Hahah. How do you figure that?

It's CPU is not even close to that of the rMBP. The entry level Surface Pro has a CPU below that of the entry level MacBook Air.

Plus the MacBook Air will destroy it in I/O speeds.