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This is why no one can take anything you say with much seriousness.

http://www.engadget.com/products/microsoft/surface/pro/3/

You needn't even read past the first paragraph.

http://www.cnet.com/products/microsoft-surface-pro-3/2/

Resoundingly lukewarm.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8077/microsoft-surface-pro-3-review

Not even Anand thinks it's an acceptable laptop replacement.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2158...-a-legitimate-work-pc-in-tablet-clothing.html

Again, not as good as a laptop, not as good as a tablet.

http://www.slashgear.com/surface-pro-3-review-31331212/

The Mac user actually likes it (I don't hate it or anything, it's just not my thing) but still mentions price as an issue.
 
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http://www.engadget.com/products/microsoft/surface/pro/3/

You needn't even read past the first paragraph.

http://www.cnet.com/products/microsoft-surface-pro-3/2/

Resoundingly lukewarm.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8077/microsoft-surface-pro-3-review

Not even Anand thinks it's an acceptable laptop replacement.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2158...-a-legitimate-work-pc-in-tablet-clothing.html

Again, not as good as a laptop, not as good as a tablet.

http://www.slashgear.com/surface-pro-3-review-31331212/

The Mac user actually likes it (I don't hate it or anything, it's just not my thing) but still mentions price as an issue.

Again... maybe you're just assuming people do not or won't check your "facts" or links.

Go right to the bottom of the CNET page you posted to see the very good job they do of collecting all of the reviews rated 1 to 10.

All the ones you listed rate it an 8 out of 10...Yahoo tech (not traditionally MS fans) give it a 9.

Just because no one says it is "perfect" does not equal everyone hating it.
 
Again... maybe you're just assuming people do not or won't check your "facts" or links.

Go right to the bottom of the CNET page you posted to see the very good job they do of collecting all of the reviews rated 1 to 10.

All the ones you listed rate it an 8 out of 10...Yahoo tech (not traditionally MS fans) give it a 9.

Just because no one says it is "perfect" does not equal everyone hating it.

No, I don't say it's perfect. You can't trust the ratings on anything. If you read all of the actual reviews, as I did, you will see they all have serious qualms with it. They give every major device they review a high rating, because if they don't, they might not get another review unit.

This goes for Mac reviews as well, in case you think I have confirmation bias. Ignore the "out of" rating. Read the actual review. Nobody in any of the Surface Pro 3 reviews fell in love with it, and nobody thought it was anywhere close to perfect. They all said it was an improvement on an idea that was flawed from the beginning.

There are a lot of great products that aren't Apple products. I think Lenovo makes fantastic ThinkPads, they have a lot of good ideas and their manufacturing prowess allows them to accomplish it. If you don't care about weight or OS, (or run Linux) I think the T440s is actually better than Apple's offerings across the board, especially with their slick dual battery feature. The ThinkPad Yoga comes very close to this Retina MacBook Pro 13" with regards to price/performance. Razer's Blade is adored by almost everyone who reviews it, it's almost undoubtedly the future of portable PC gaming. Heck, even the Acer Aspire S7 is a pretty damn decent Ultrabook, even if the MacBook Air has better battery life. I myself have an old Dell Inspiron with a gen-1 i3 that I use to run OpenBSD (long story short, don't even try it on hardware that isn't at least four years old :p) and a custom built desktop workstation with a Core i7-3770K and a GeForce GTX 660Ti. I'm in the process of building a cute little #! (linux distro) machine with a Pentium Anniversary Edition G3258 and possibly a GeForce GTX 750Ti.

That doesn't make me any less of a Mac fan though. I still think Macs are the best machines out there for the vast majority of tasks, I still think that the iPhone is better than all Android offerings, and I'm in general a huge Apple fan.

There are great non-Apple products, and the Surface Pro 3 is close, (I think the Surface Pro 4 will be incredible, considering the new Broadwell low TDP SKUs) but it just doesn't do it for me. If it works for you, great. It doesn't work for me, and it apparently doesn't work for the millions of other people who are buying iPads and MacBooks instead.
 
What was your intention with saying that Windows has been around 30 years? Tell me yourself. I take things literally, and I'm not very good at reading into things.


Statistics. A few data points in a 30 year trend could be anything.
 
In my opinion... the combination of an 8" tablet and a 14" laptop would be better than a 12" laptop/tablet hybrid.


Fair enough. I for one think that the laptop is a poor form factor to begin with. It spends 80 % of its time in a dock at my desk and 20 % at customer sites, giving presentations, facilitating meetings and taking notes. All of those are better served with a tablet with a proper stylus.
 
Three ads ??

wow. Microsoft getting desperate.. They really want to tell how good Surface Pro 3 is, but what good is if the product they use on it is not widely used ?

lol..... write with a pen...

their getting outdated........ I don't even use one anymore..... we have "notes" for that on iOS as well as the Mac.

I can't remember the last time i used a yellow sticky

Seems MS may want to look into comparing things better..

Of course no one would tell you that the Surface Pro 3 is NOT 16:9/16:10... And that's actually the important part here. Personal choice.

But still, its a major one, MS left out.....

"No one uses pens anymore". lol. Nobody but salespeople, scientists, mathematicians, designers, engineers, and students. The 16:10 thing is so rich. MS promotes in all their information that the surface is 3:2. Yeah, its a major one!

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Statistics. A few data points in a 30 year trend could be anything.

worked for the ipcc

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Read the actual review. Nobody in any of the Surface Pro 3 reviews fell in love with it, and nobody thought it was anywhere close to perfect. They all said it was an improvement on an idea that was flawed from the beginning.

You go to amazon or surface user forum and read what users have to say about this product. It has a very supportive user base.
 
and that makes what difference?

its not like there are many players in the desktop os or mobile os market that could be referred to and pretty much just one in the maps market

Yes. Yes it does.

Saying "The most advanced operating system" for example is different to saying "Look at how rubbish the Galaxy S5 is compared to our product".

How can you not appreciate the difference here?
 
Yes. Yes it does.

Saying "The most advanced operating system" for example is different to saying "Look at how rubbish the Galaxy S5 is compared to our product".

How can you not appreciate the difference here?

i can very much appreciate the difference in your example but your example is bs. who exactly is using terms like rubbish with regards to apple products?

ive seen ads highlighting features that are supposed to be better than what apple offers with a direct mention of apple and ive seen apple highlight features they have with an indirect mention.

if anything the ads that went the furthest were the pc v mac ads back in the day
 
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So I've used a MacBook pro/pro retina/air (15" and 13" - switches in that order over the years aswell), and when the Surface 3 came out I decided to give it a try. It was a really odd change for me, I never even tried Windows 7 before let alone Windows 8 or 8.1. I've used the Surface 3 since a day after it was released up until this past Monday.

The first issue for me was the screen size. Now I know 11" screens are pretty popular for mobile people, but for me never dropping below 13.3" to a 12" screen was a huge difference to adjust to. Since then, I had come to get used to it, but it wasn't a change I enjoyed much.

The second issue was the keyboard/trackpad. The trackpad is wide enough, but it isn't long enough. Moving files, selecting text, and moving far across the screen was much more annoying. I haven't bothered using a real mouse in years but found myself quickly trying out a few different ones I picked up at Best Buy.

The keyboard buttons themselves weren't a problem, it was the keyboard not giving the screen support for lap use. I spend a large amount of my time working in bed rather than at a desk or being out, and let me just say that getting and staying comfortable in bed when the screen's stand has to use the bed to stay standing is a pain. That same reason completely prevents you from certain angles too, such as if you need the screen pointing straight up or even slightly angled down (in bed, the only screen angle is up).

As a tablet though, it's great. It's actually quite light, and you'd have to check the specs online but I'm pretty sure it's about 0.36" wide, which is near half that of a MacBook Air. The pen input is really nice, and so is the palm rejection when using it (if the pen is close enough to the screen, it blocks your palm from interfering if it's touching the screen). The kickstand makes tablet work easier too for desk or lap work. You can use the stand to get the perfect angle for writing or drawing (such as an ever so slight angle upward from being flat).

The Surface 3 is a nice device, but they're advertising it in the wrong way in my opinion. They should be advertising it as the advanced tablet (since it runs a full blown PC OS) that can be turned into a portable desktop (to get to the point that the surface, even with the new kickstand, still is best used on a hard surface).

As I mentioned I stopped using it, but I've grown to actually like Windows 8.1 (missed the Mac dock though and downloaded a Windows version for quick application access, it's called ObjectDock and works great for nearly replicating it from open apps to quick apps). I switched to a Lenovo yoga pro 2, and in the last few days absolutely love it. The yoga is best described as a laptop with the option to be used to a lap or desk tablet (you wouldn't use this in the palm while moving/standing, your forearm maybe though).

Anyway, the yoga pro 2 is around 0.60" thick (about that of a MacBook air), ever so slightly heavier (if I remember right not even by a quarter of a lb, though it's lighter than my either 2012 or 2013 air). The screen doesn't detach, it rotates as far as you want it to go, all the way up to the point that it lays flat against the keyboard, essentially making it a 13.3" "tablet." The keyboard and folding screen actually act together creating a kickstand like effect the surface has for touchscreen mode, while still keeping the normal laptop control when you fold it back. The biggest drawback (thankfully I have no real use for) is no stylus support, which means if you get a stylus made for something such as an iPad online, you have to watch your palm because it will impact the stylus if they both touch.

What I'm watching for now is Intel's Broadwell chips. Assuming the fanless compatible chips can compete with i3s (or more preferably i5s as I imagine i7 at the least will still be better than this particular upcoming Broadwell chip), I could see Lenovo using this fanless design to create a yoga 3 at the same thickness and weight as the Surface 3. That with Windows 9 (looking likely at a 2015 release) to return the start menu and change some other less liked features of Windows 8, I think could actually bring some competition to this laptop/tablet in one some better competition. Of course, this all depends on future releases and also in this case a thin and light weight 13" laptop/tablet, where some people have no interest in a tablet that isn't 8"-10".

Just some thoughts of mine and my experience with OSX, Window 8, MacBook Pros and Airs, and now recently the Surface Pro 3 and Also Lenovo Yoga Pro 2.
 
So I've used a MacBook pro/pro retina/air (15" and 13" - switches in that order over the years aswell), and when the Surface 3 came out I decided to give it a try. It was a really odd change for me, I never even tried Windows 7 before let alone Windows 8 or 8.1. I've used the Surface 3 since a day after it was released up until this past Monday.

The first issue for me was the screen size. Now I know 11" screens are pretty popular for mobile people, but for me never dropping below 13.3" to a 12" screen was a huge difference to adjust to. Since then, I had come to get used to it, but it wasn't a change I enjoyed much.

The second issue was the keyboard/trackpad. The trackpad is wide enough, but it isn't long enough. Moving files, selecting text, and moving far across the screen was much more annoying. I haven't bothered using a real mouse in years but found myself quickly trying out a few different ones I picked up at Best Buy.

The keyboard buttons themselves weren't a problem, it was the keyboard not giving the screen support for lap use. I spend a large amount of my time working in bed rather than at a desk or being out, and let me just say that getting and staying comfortable in bed when the screen's stand has to use the bed to stay standing is a pain. That same reason completely prevents you from certain angles too, such as if you need the screen pointing straight up or even slightly angled down (in bed, the only screen angle is up).

As a tablet though, it's great. It's actually quite light, and you'd have to check the specs online but I'm pretty sure it's about 0.36" wide, which is near half that of a MacBook Air. The pen input is really nice, and so is the palm rejection when using it (if the pen is close enough to the screen, it blocks your palm from interfering if it's touching the screen). The kickstand makes tablet work easier too for desk or lap work. You can use the stand to get the perfect angle for writing or drawing (such as an ever so slight angle upward from being flat).

The Surface 3 is a nice device, but they're advertising it in the wrong way in my opinion. They should be advertising it as the advanced tablet (since it runs a full blown PC OS) that can be turned into a portable desktop (to get to the point that the surface, even with the new kickstand, still is best used on a hard surface).

As I mentioned I stopped using it, but I've grown to actually like Windows 8.1 (missed the Mac dock though and downloaded a Windows version for quick application access, it's called ObjectDock and works great for nearly replicating it from open apps to quick apps). I switched to a Lenovo yoga pro 2, and in the last few days absolutely love it. The yoga is best described as a laptop with the option to be used to a lap or desk tablet (you wouldn't use this in the palm while moving/standing, your forearm maybe though).

Anyway, the yoga pro 2 is around 0.60" thick (about that of a MacBook air), ever so slightly heavier (if I remember right not even by a quarter of a lb, though it's lighter than my either 2012 or 2013 air). The screen doesn't detach, it rotates as far as you want it to go, all the way up to the point that it lays flat against the keyboard, essentially making it a 13.3" "tablet." The keyboard and folding screen actually act together creating a kickstand like effect the surface has for touchscreen mode, while still keeping the normal laptop control when you fold it back. The biggest drawback (thankfully I have no real use for) is no stylus support, which means if you get a stylus made for something such as an iPad online, you have to watch your palm because it will impact the stylus if they both touch.

What I'm watching for now is Intel's Broadwell chips. Assuming the fanless compatible chips can compete with i3s (or more preferably i5s as I imagine i7 at the least will still be better than this particular upcoming Broadwell chip), I could see Lenovo using this fanless design to create a yoga 3 at the same thickness and weight as the Surface 3. That with Windows 9 (looking likely at a 2015 release) to return the start menu and change some other less liked features of Windows 8, I think could actually bring some competition to this laptop/tablet in one some better competition. Of course, this all depends on future releases and also in this case a thin and light weight 13" laptop/tablet, where some people have no interest in a tablet that isn't 8"-10".

Just some thoughts of mine and my experience with OSX, Window 8, MacBook Pros and Airs, and now recently the Surface Pro 3 and Also Lenovo Yoga Pro 2.


While my personal experience/preference differs slightly from you (I love using it in bed and on my lap...no issues for me), your post is a very fair assesment without overstating any particular flaws or benefits. Thank you. :)

It is not for everyone, but that doesn't mean it is an awesome machine. A tablet that can serve as a laptop, a laptop that is a tablet....who cares what Microsoft says...if it works for you, then great.
 
http://www.zdnet.com/what-do-normal-people-think-of-new-windows-8-pcs-7000006863/

I suppose you're right. There aren't any sweeping surveys. A significant portion of people don't like it though.

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You sir are truly an *******. Apparently I'm an idiot and you know everything, Mr. Superior.

The design is objectively not streamlined though. Detachable keyboard, kickstand, etc.

Also, why are you on a Mac forum when you do nothing but bash Macs and talk about how Apple sucks?

I actually find most people to be ambivalent. They say it fixed some of their problems but changed some things they liked in other ways.
 
I actually find most people to be ambivalent. They say it fixed some of their problems but changed some things they liked in other ways.

And yet none of them think it can replace both a laptop and a tablet, as Microsoft claims it can.
 
And yet none of them think it can replace both a laptop and a tablet, as Microsoft claims it can.

Like said, I don't like the laptop as a form factor at all, but what I would like is a desktop that I can just occasionally pick up and go and give a presentation somewhere or facilitate a meeting without having to crouch behind a laptop and kill the interaction.

So yes, the SP3 definitely hits a sweet spot for a lot of users, since it is unlikely that I'm the only consultant in the world who needs a computer with proper Windows.
 
i can very much appreciate the difference in your example but your example is bs. who exactly is using terms like rubbish with regards to apple products?

ive seen ads highlighting features that are supposed to be better than what apple offers with a direct mention of apple and ive seen apple highlight features they have with an indirect mention.

if anything the ads that went the furthest were the pc v mac ads back in the day

See MR front page.
 
...Heck you can swing the display back onto the cover pendulum style. ..

So you agree with me. Pick it up by the keyboard and the display will collapse. It's not rigid, hence the need for the kickstand.

The display does fall off. I've seen it happen at a railway station platform waiting to go to London the other month. Fortunately, for the woman who was using it, no damage was done as it fell only a short distance.

But hey don't let me stop you from making false assumptions and talking out of your you know what.
 
So you agree with me. Pick it up by the keyboard and the display will collapse. It's not rigid, hence the need for the kickstand.

The display does fall off. I've seen it happen at a railway station platform waiting to go to London the other month. Fortunately, for the woman who was using it, no damage was done as it fell only a short distance.

But hey don't let me stop you from jumping to false assumptions and talking out of your you know what.

Hmmm.... the other month? In London?

Chance that it was a Surface Pro 3 = .000001%
 
Oh, you mean reviewers that think it can. I'm talking bout normal people. Two different audiences.

I've tried it, being a "normal person." I don't think it could for me, but as I've said before, YMMV.

Most (if not all) of the reviewers didn't, and some of them are people I put a lot of trust into (Anand in particular). They know what they're talking about, they get to touch a lot more tech than we do. As I've said before though, the number ratings mean almost nothing.

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Works fine for me

I'm glad it works fine for one person on the internet. What is that, like 50% of their Surface Pro 3 customers?

/sarcasm
 
or you just finalized purchase of phone company from a famously unproductive economic region

A LOT of those they laid off were in the States and were long time coders and software engineers for Windows and other Microsoft products.
 
Most (if not all) of the reviewers didn't, and some of them are people I put a lot of trust into (Anand in particular). They know what they're talking about, they get to touch a lot more tech than we do. As I've said before though, the number ratings mean almost nothing.

Best part of Anand's review is he said it catered to the "professional tablet" market. AKA he created a third market to refer to this converged device instead of doing what MS marketing is doing and trying to pigeonhole it into the tablet or notebook markets.

What you don't get is it's a converged device that deserves its own market. And almost all iterations of a converged device has compromises. Your smartphone is a converged device that converged among other things - phone and camera. Even to this day, a smartphone camera with its crappy low light and subpar sensor+aperture is a compromise over a point and shoot, but it disrupted the point and shoot market a long time ago.

I've said it before but eventually there's a point where the benefits of convergence surpass compromise. Everyone's talking about the compromise, nobody's acknowledging the benefits of convergence.

I'm glad it works fine for one person on the internet. What is that, like 50% of their Surface Pro 3 customers?

/sarcasm

49.5%
 
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