Microsoft Music Store?

[QuiteSure]

iTMS is just a record store!

Why all the moaning and complaining? Once upon a time during the last century, someone came up with the idea of selling records from a brick and mortar store. Someone else thought that was a great idea and also started selling records from a store. Competition! Good for consumers! More and more stores were set up.

Then, someone came up with the idea of selling records in department stores. Korvettes! Bradlees!

Then Malls were born. Someone thought we should have records sold in them. Sam Goody's made lots of money establishing stores in malls across America. Then Carousel records. Then others.

So, Apple is the first to apparently succeed in selling music over the internet. That's great! Apple has a great system. I hope that Apple continues to add new artists and sell 99¢ records. I will continue to buy! Maybe Amazon will be better. Maybe Microsoft will be better. More choices for the consumer. All excellent!

These are all good developments. If not for competition we would all still be flying the Wright Brothers' single prop airplane.

 

[mactastic]

The major record labels are very nervous about entering this field, I think they went with apples proposal because it provided a large enough test market without being too large to allow massive piracy if things didn't work. Entering the music distribution business with microsoft will be a very different kind of gamble for them. Microsoft's reputation for security (or lack thereof) is well known, and probably causes these record executives diahhrea worrying about whether these legal downloads will quickly be shared. I think they are watching us and our apple community to see how we behave with this stuff for now, and I think they will be more hesitant before granting licenses to MS. MS will most likely have to put tighter DRM restrictions than most consumers would like in order to satisfy the record labels, and the fact that they even exist at all was a bone of contentions for many around here even. In addition, kazaa provides a fairly robust file swapping community that doesn't exist on nearly that scale on the mac. MS will have to convince people that there is a good reason to stop getting music for free and pay for it. When iTMS first came out and I was all excited and showing it off to PC users, their first statement was always "But you have to pay for this! You can just go get it for free on Kazaa." Very few people I talked to were interested in paying for music they could get for free. As one windows user put it, "Why buy the cow, when you can get the cow for free!"

 

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by mactastic
When iTMS first came out and I was all excited and showing it off to PC users, their first statement was always "But you have to pay for this! You can just go get it for free on Kazaa." Very few people I talked to were interested in paying for music they could get for free. As one windows user put it, "Why buy the cow, when you can get the cow for free!"

You should gently persuade them by furnishing their name address and phone number to the FBI. Suddenly "free" music will lose its appeal.

 

[elo]

While you are correct that iTMS is not intended as a Switch vehicle, you are not correct about Apple's intentions to become the prominent offering. Apple isn't "late" at all, but forced to wait until the negotiating and legal work is done. (The same is true for the international market.) In fact, the widely publicized meeting with independent record companies was probably partly a gambit to let the major player still holding out that Apple intends to move forward anyway. Apple absolutely will have its technology ready to go by the time the legal work is done.

As for the Microsoft effort, yes, we should be concerned. But if it intends to change the DRM in any way from what is currently used by Pressplay, etc., then it too will have to negotiate with the record companies just as Apple is now. My guess is that Microsoft's service will launch with a more restrictive DRM than Apple's, but that the tunes will play on more devices. Apple still probably has an advantage with the library itself, however. Some company representatives have indicated that they are more comfortable making a deal with Apple than [other companies] because they feel that Apple's philosophy is more compatible with the way they want their music distributed.

Oh, one more thing: There isn't a chance Apple won't be first to get the service running on Windows.

elo

Originally posted by MorganX
The music store isn't going to make any meaningful number of users switch anyway. There are million of MP3 players that iTunes does not and probably never will support. New miniature 1GB hard disks will bring even smaller MP3 players that are popular with PC users.

The iTMS isn't over. The dream apparently wasn't to be "the" jukebox and music store for everyone. If it was, Apple wouldn't be so late with a Windows version. It's an afterthought that may be too late. It will still be a great product, if only for Mac. And it's not over yet. But even if it is released for Windows, it will only have limited success if it is iPod only, and doesn't have CD burning features.

Furthermore, if MS can't get the same licensing deals from record companies that Apple has gotten for it's much smaller market, there's no telling what might happen. It's really not about the store, and store is a store is a store. It's about the cost of the music, and the licensing. And I haven't heard anything about MS loosening their DRM.

 

[mactastic]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
You should gently persuade them by furnishing their name address and phone number to the FBI. Suddenly "free" music will lose its appeal.

Too many people to go after. The FBI would have to arrest nearly everyone over 8 and under 21.

edit: and quite a few of the over 21 crowd too

 

[MorganX]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Runs on Xbox

Originally posted by springscansing
Yeah, what the hell do you do with songs on an xbox?

Play them through the digital out going into your home theatre. Use them as custom soundtracks on many games.

With Music Mixer for Xbox strip vocals and do karaoke and what not. Not my thing, but I'm sure someone digs it.

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by elo
Apple isn't "late" at all, but forced to wait until the negotiating and legal work is done. (The same is true for the international market.)

Late is referring to an iTMS client for Windows. If Apple does want to be the leader for the entire market, not just the Mac market then they should have had the foresight to have a PC client available on launch. Even if it meant delaying the launch.

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by VIREBEL661
Why don't you tell me? I KNOW you're dying to....

Actually, I really wanted to know because I don't believe there is technology being stolen from the iTMS.

 

[MorganX]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What's all the shouting about?

Originally posted by RHutch
Why now? Because Apple did it and showed that it could work.

Apple is trying to partner with Amazon, and MS created the DRM that the other services use.

Everybody already knew a music store with virtually no DRM (Apple's DRM is so light I don't consider it DRM at all. The biggest DRM in iTMS is only allowing 128bit downloads IMO).

It remains to be seen if record execs will allow the much larger PC market so much licensing freedom. If they do, I would be on whichever store gets on users desktop first.

 

[P-Worm]

I think everyone here has it all wrong

Seriously. All of this 'As soon as Microsoft gets their version out, we're through!' is nonsense. I know that Apple has been screwed in the past, but this is different. This isn't a program that you buy, or a subscription that you pay for. This is an online store. That means that people have the choice. Amazon is the biggest online store on the internet. Is that because people can't choose other stores? Of course not! It is simply because they have developed a good system and people keep coming back for more. Apple is the company that starts these systems. Apple is an innovator. And in the online store market, that is all that matters.

Amen.

P-Worm

 

[rjwill246]

The LA Times again!

If ever a newspaper has shown its utter contempt for a company, the LAT- (rine) has taken the cake. They published incorrect and financially damaging crap about Universal- Apple's shares dropped like rocks- and then reported lasciviously that others were entering the market to compete with Apple once Apple opened the Music Store. Well, they are almost certainly right on the latter, as it takes no ingenuity to know that MS, among others, have had to be developing similar plans. Hello?
The consolations for Apple are many, however... the Lat-rine was wrong on all first rumour counts about Apple and the music industry, and they have no special insight into MS et al. 'wanting' to get into the same arena. Very bloody insightful, I don't think. As many here have pointed out Apple is well in front on this endeavour. The reviews coming in are almost embarrassing in their praise (the industry execs wil be noticing this favourably) and Apple has yet to get to the rest of the world on this with 'iTunes for Windows' or its own Mac version overseas.
It simply isn't going to fail.
Read this, if you still need to feel better! (http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=38003)

 

[Hawthorne]

Originally posted by snahabed
Apple HAD to have seen this coming! I cannot imagine why Apple would have not developed a full Windows version CONCURRENTLY with the Apple version. I know the licensing isnt done, but at least get the code setup and READY TO GO the second the agreements are signed.

Because it's always a game of one-upmanship. Look how many mp3 players tried to beat the original iPod on features / price. Apple just sat back, and trumped them again with the new one.

Microsoft will release their version, and it will suck ("Hey, we have this unused dog icon from Bob. Maybe if we put some headphones on him..."). Apple will release iTMS for Windows, and people will say "Ahhh, that's the way it SHOULD be." Microsoft will then cripple iTMS for Windows with a service pack "upgrade", steal their ideas, mangle them, and release v2.0 of their service, claiming they thought of it all along.

 

[edenwaith]

This is the reason for history.

...and history repeats itself. I had hardly heard of the other music services before the iTMS came about. Partly because of some PC-only based services, but also because of lack of press. Rolling Stone has continually been tracking iTMS's success. All things considered, it is doing very well, especially since there is a relatively small audience...only those who use Macs which can support iTunes 4 and have access to U.S.-based credit card. Think of the flood which will result when it becomes world wide, or at least supports more currencies such as the Canadian and Australian (sp?) dollar, Yen, the British Pound, and the Euro.

And this hasn't even touched the Windows world yet.

Ah, what would the computing world do without Apple to help lead and show the way so many times? Not to say that Apple comes up with every great idea, but they have the genius and marketing power to back it up.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Some of you can't see the Forest through the trees

My Gawd why the pissin' and moaning.

Apples just fine. They have advantages with the success of the iPod and iTunes which exceed what Amazon and Yahoo have.

The service as we know it is only the tip of the iceberg. When Amazon started they only sold books right? Now look at what they sell. iTMS is just the first launch of what is quickly becoming a Web Services arena.

Apple is still well positioned and must use iTMS to further the DLD genre. I'm still waiting for the "Home iPod" something that makes sharing Digital files in the home easy as pie.

I'm still waiting for Mulitchannel Downloads. I'm still waiting form MPEG4 Video with AAC files.

There is so much that is going to happen for all these services in the next 4 years. The winner will be the one that offers the best set of features and integration. Apple is strong in this area and I know where I'll be spending my money.

 

[csimmons]

Microsoft has to do something to sell some XBoxes, right?

Seriously, I believe the reason that iTMS works so well (and gets so much great press, which is important), is that it's very easy to use, and it isn't a subscription service. From what I've read, these other forthcoming services are still more or less subscription based, which is why they probably won't work as well as iTMS, from the end users viewpoint.

 

[edenwaith]

Re: I think everyone here has it all wrong

Originally posted by P-Worm
Seriously. All of this 'As soon as Microsoft gets their version out, we're through!' is nonsense. I know that Apple has been screwed in the past, but this is different. This isn't a program that you buy, or a subscription that you pay for. This is an online store. That means that people have the choice. Amazon is the biggest online store on the internet. Is that because people can't choose other stores? Of course not! It is simply because they have developed a good system and people keep coming back for more.

The biggest fear that many of us have is understanding what Microsoft is and how it works. One of the biggest problems here is expecting people to realize that they have a choice. Why do so many people use IE? Because it's there. That really is about it. It hasn't shown any innovation or advancement (does IE 6 even have tabs yet?), and there are tons of better browsers (many of them Mac-only, of course). Perhaps it may take several generations for people to learn computers and be weary before just taking whatever is handed to them. When buying a new car, do people just go to the first lot and buy whatever the salesman points out? Generally not. Many people do some research and look around for what is best for them (and their budget).

To wrap up this idea, the worry about MS putting out their own product, is that they will package it with their OS again, and then Average Joe will probably just use that product and not really worry or care about finding an alternative.

 

[edenwaith]

Re: iTMS is just a record store!

Originally posted by QuiteSure
Why all the moaning and complaining? Once upon a time during the last century, someone came up with the idea of selling records from a brick and mortar store. Someone else thought that was a great idea and also started selling records from a store. Competition! Good for consumers! More and more stores were set up.

So, Apple is the first to apparently succeed in selling music over the internet. That's great! Apple has a great system. I hope that Apple continues to add new artists and sell 99¢ records. I will continue to buy! Maybe Amazon will be better. Maybe Microsoft will be better. More choices for the consumer. All excellent!

To reiterate much of my last post or few is that what worries many of us is M$ trying to butt its head into yet another market which it probably has no reason trying to invade.

Yes, competition is good, and iTunes competing against the other music services is also a good thing. From what I've heard about the other services, I don't like the sound of them. I enjoy just being able to look for a few songs and buy them (or perhaps buy the entire album). Already we have seen that Apple has lighted a fire under many other companies' posteriors to get them into action and try and play catch-up. My guess is that some of those companies have been sitting on their duffs and haven't really been putting forth the proper effort into their products.

 

[sjjordan]

Doesn't apple own Universal Music? Can't they keep other Music stores from using there music. From what I've heard Universal holds many, many albums. And I agree, Apple better get that windoze version out soon or they're toast.
They won't disappear, but the only windows users that'll use are those that like the interface.

 

[AppleMatt]

Apple should release a number of updates for the iPod software that changes how it communicates with PC's, giving Microsoft the run around and making them re-code portions of their store program, delaying their progress and allowing Apple to get closer to release iTunes for Windows.

I'm so evil.

AppleMatt

 

[P-Worm]

Re: Re: I think everyone here has it all wrong

Originally posted by edenwaith
The biggest fear that many of us have is understanding what Microsoft is and how it works. One of the biggest problems here is expecting people to realize that they have a choice. Why do so many people use IE? Because it's there. That really is about it. It hasn't shown any innovation or advancement (does IE 6 even have tabs yet?), and there are tons of better browsers (many of them Mac-only, of course). Perhaps it may take several generations for people to learn computers and be weary before just taking whatever is handed to them. When buying a new car, do people just go to the first lot and buy whatever the salesman points out? Generally not. Many people do some research and look around for what is best for them (and their budget).

To wrap up this idea, the worry about MS putting out their own product, is that they will package it with their OS again, and then Average Joe will probably just use that product and not really worry or care about finding an alternative.

In many respects, you are right. But I still don't fear Apple's future with the music store. I think that this is different than Internet Explorer. Here, we have Apple in the press and there is now a legit digital music revolution. Just like the file sharing networks, there are many, and many use different kinds. But in the end, it is the one with the best service (Kazaa) that takes the trophy.

P-Worm

 

[Pipian]

I found more info on the Microsoft music service.. Apparently you will pay a flat rate like 150$ a year to download all the songs you want, but you can't burn them to CD, and if you stop paying yearly they make the songs "expire" and you won't be able to play them anymore...

 

[Digidesign]

I for one am glad that MS is planning a music service. Hopefully this will propel Apple to seriously consider the flaws of their music service.

For one, the selection is small. Granted it's a new service and the whole copyright/licensing per-song-pizazz, but come on, 75% of the music I want to purchase I can't find on the store. Not to mention the fact that most of the artists they add are usually Top 40 artists.

Second, the whole partial album thing is a joke. Usually it's the entire album, minus ONE freakin' track - in some cases I've seen the complete album (20/20 tracks - i.e., Ray Romano's comedy CD) but it still says partial album. There's no way I'm paying $20 for the whole thing. Or, it's like they have the clean version complete and available, but the explicit version is missing that ONE song (i.e., 2Pac's Until the End of Time). C'mon Apple.

Third, the pricing is NOT $9.99 per disc across the board. Some are like $15. (i.e., No doubt's Rock Steady) That's total BS. And some songs can only be purchased with the album. Again, more BS.

The store is a great idea, but it's slow going, and frustratingly obtuse at times. if Microsoft's service can add some healthy competition which in turn will kick the ITMS into shape, then I am all for it.

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by Digidesign
Third, the pricing is NOT $9.99 per disc across the board. Some are like $15. (i.e., No doubt's Rock Steady) That's total BS. And some songs can only be purchased with the album. Again, more BS.

In general I don't have a problem with pricing but I do think for albums costing more than $9.99 you should have the option of downloading a higher bitrate.

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by Pipian
I found more info on the Microsoft music service.. Apparently you will pay a flat rate like 150$ a year to download all the songs you want, but you can't burn them to CD, and if you stop paying yearly they make the songs "expire" and you won't be able to play them anymore...

I would say I doubt this, but have no information to the contrary. If it is true, it will be a total flop/failure from day one. That's why I doubt it.

 

[Fukui]

I would like to see an iPod kit for the Xbox that could access the iTMS and sync with iPod. Preferable to whatever MS will offer.

Sorry, XBOX is MS's platform. Apple would need to get a licensing agreement with MS to distribute their software on their console (something like $20), so uh, you think MS is gonna say, OK apple, heres your XBOX SDK and license, good luck competing on our service that we'll bundle with the XBOX LIVE so every player sees our music service and only our service...It will never happen.