Microsoft Not Planning on Xbox Cloud Gaming App for iOS Because There's 'Not Room' for Monetization

[victorvictoria]

This is actually Microsoft saying they will not develop for the convenience of their own customers because they can't make more money off of an iOS app. Meaning you pay for their subscription, and having an app to use it within is not something they want unless they can further make money. So not really about how much it costs those of us developing iOS apps. For me it is actually much less expensive in the long run to develop on iOS than it is most other platforms. Specially when I have to consider safety, protection, and exposure.

Question for you, Bodhisattva: Microsoft is a for profit corporation in a capitalist economy. Would you have them develop products for which they don't see a profit potential? Why would they do that? One of the 8 pillars of enlightenment is perspective, which is missing in your remarks. Namaste and good Karma!

 

[Delarock]

my last hope is geforce now with keyboard mouse and ultimate membership support

 

[djphat2000]

Er, no. They want to charge users who aren't using the app store too.

They are allowed to, and this was stated clearly they could. Why would they not?

Imagine you could take your Ford to a dealership for a free oil change.

Then Ford puts in place new rules: They will charge mechanics every time someone brings a Ford to their shop for an oil change. And in addition, they will no longer offer free oil changes at Ford dealerships.

That's essentially Apple's take here.

If the rules stated it was free and then they "switched" it to it costing something. That would be Bait and Switch.
I fail to see how that applies here. The EU changed the rules, and Apple complied. They gave the heads up to everyone. And in the next update it will take effect. Not the same thing.

 

[MockT]

By Apple Revenue, the US is roughly the EU and China combined. My point is that a change in the EU is unlikely to have a global effect, especially considering that China and Japan are equal to the EU while the US is nearly double it.

The USB-C port in the latest Apple lineup would like a word with you.

 

[MisterSavage]

Overblown? Do you think people today live healthier lives then in years past? Are people feeling more content with their lives than before? Considering suicide and depression having risen dramatically in Gen Y and Gen Z, I'm not sure I would say this is a good thing.

Hell yes I said overblown. I've heard the fearmongering about gaming the majority of my life. And there might be, I don't know, a global pandemic recently that might have something to do with that.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Company that failed at producing a mobile OS, mobile hardware and a mobile ecosystem that consumers wanted to buy wants a free pass from a company that DID succeed at the above. Film at 11.

In other news, a company that maintains a closed ecosystem doesn’t want any other companies to maintain a closed ecosystem. Especially companies that have been wildly successful at building closed ecosystems.

 

[truthsteve]

Malicious compliance by Apple: trying to obey the law without actually obeying. Let’s hope the EU strikes down Apple’s changes.

And I'm sure it'll be even more convoluted and end up being even worse for users.

 

[truthsteve]

That’s exactly what malicious compliance is in his case. There’s the exact letter of the law and there’s the intend of the law.

Sounds like EU should stop making laws if they don't know how to achieve their intentions/goals of said law.

 

[tazinlwfl]

If I keep my iPhone for 8 years, and Apple delivers 8 years of new software updates, that means each update was just 1/8th of what I paid when I bought my phone. Not sustainable, especially for the used-phone market.

I know it's rare for consumers to keep a phone for 8 years these days, but it happens. Apple still incurs costs for those older phones.

So, having the developers pay this Core Technology Fee is the right approach.

I’m typing this from my iPhone 6S Plus 🙃

 

[hagar]

Sounds like EU should stop making laws if they don't know how to achieve their intentions/goals of said law.

Every piece of legislation is complex, especially when dealing with multibillion dollar companies.

Let’s wait and see which of the 6 targeted gate keeping companies fall in line and which ones will get a slap in the wrist shall we.

 

[truthsteve]

Every piece of legislation is complex, especially when dealing with multibillion dollar companies.

Let’s wait and see which of the 6 targeted gate keeping companies fall in line and which ones will get a slap in the wrist shall we.

if EU can't handle complex legislation, they shouldn't be legislating

 

[jlc1978]

They assured price ranges, not profits. Tehre's a difference.

That is not what the OP claimed in regard to telco regulation. My point, however, unless tehre is a profit companies will exit a regulated environment

Apps that Apple uses for themselves, internally, as I said. Apps for employees, managers, engineers, HR, etc.

AS well as any they don't use but are used by 3rd parties; nothing in the law requires Apple to maintain all APIs currently in use so 3rd parties still have access to them.

Don't actually know if you are actually reading what we write or ignoring it on purpose just to tire us off. I already told you it's about the platofrm, not about their fancy store front.

I take it you agree Apple can charge for APP Store access?

However, Apple is providing access to the platform as required. People are complaining about the CTF but that appears to be an allowable fee for access to the App Store user base. Judging by the comments, some posters expect Apple to allow free access to the App Store for any app that wants to use 3rd party payments or is on the App Store; thus conflating the platforms - iOS and the App Store. That is not a reasonable thing, IMHO, and not required by the DMA.

If sideloading is implemented similar to the Mac, a developer or store could access the platform free of charge independent of Apple's App Store.

It will be interesting to see how the EU states differentiate Apple's 2 core platforms - iOS and the App Store when it comes to fees and accessibility.

They may have even said that the Buttlerfly Keyboard would have had a ten-year lifecycle. What does it matter what they say?

Except it had a design flaw, unlike Lightening.

Btw, Thunderbolt is their current MFi replacement by replacing the USB standard's capability with a mirrored proprietary protocol.

Which is perfectly fine by USB-C standards and EU regulations since it is a data protocol that uses a standard connector design.

I don't think TB is a MFi replacement, however, since it is only used for high speed data transfer where MFi worked across all protocols on inexpensive to make cables that could be longer than TB cables as well.

Wrong. It is required to provide access to the platform free of charge, as worded by the DMA.

As I have cited out, sideloading would allow that. Access to the App Store can incur a fee, per the DMA.

So when Apple says on their website that it's safe right before a customer buys the goods and yields Apple money and Phil Schiller says it's not when it means that money can't be stolen from other companies and customers, it's politics and money from the EU?

It's always about the money.

Agreed. Also third-party apps with notarization, as it is the case on the Mac.

Sure, and charge for notarization. Give developers a choice.

Google could never offer its portfolio of apps under the CTF scheme. I'm sure they would have a good marketplace and they would be able to offer integrated solutions there as well.

True, but then Android evolved differently in the marketplace.

I already have. Cue the Michael Jackson GIF

Let's enjoy the ride...

 

[BuddyRich]

Exactly, it’s already monetized. However there would likely be a big uptick in server traffic if a portion of the iOS user base suddenly became clients and they don’t want to cover those costs for free.

I don’t know why that traffic would be any different than underpowered laptops, Android phones, etc, but that’s probably what they are mulling over.

They offer browser support now and that was the compromise, as soon as Safari and iOS supported controllers. So I am not sure it would be that big an uptick. People can already stream. If anything a dedicated app might save them server costs if they could use app APIs to better optimize bandwidth and latency vs the APIs Safari can use.

What I don't get is they developed an actual app, brought it through beta but didn't release it because Apple brought down the ban hammer around that time and said each individual game would beed to be reviewed. They could now release that app as it was if they wanted and be the "Netflix of Game Streaming" and they now refuse to do so...

The only conclusion is the lack of microtransations... not sure the latest rule reversal that allows gamestreaming apps (worldwide not just in Europe) still enforces other Apple ToS about using Apple store to pay for microstractions in game, even if its a streaming game, rather than the MS store.

Its why Steam has 2 apps, one for their store, and one for in-home streaming, but which doesn't allow you to purchase games on steam through it, because doing so would use Steam for the purchase.

 

[diamond.g]

They offer browser support now and that was the compromise, as soon as Safari and iOS supported controllers. So I am not sure it would be that big an uptick. People can already stream. If anything a dedicated app might save them server costs if they could use app APIs to better optimize bandwidth and latency vs the APIs Safari can use.

What I don't get is they developed an actual app, brought it through beta but didn't release it because Apple brought down the ban hammer around that time and said each individual game would beed to be reviewed. They could now release that app as it was if they wanted and be the "Netflix of Game Streaming" and they now refuse to do so...

The only conclusion is the lack of microtransations... not sure the latest rule reversal that allows gamestreaming apps (worldwide not just in Europe) still enforces other Apple ToS about using Apple store to pay for microstractions in game, even if its a streaming game, rather than the MS store.

Its why Steam has 2 apps, one for their store, and one for in-home streaming, but which doesn't allow you to purchase games on steam through it, because doing so would use Steam for the purchase.

You are right, I wasn’t sure mtx worked when streaming, but Forza Horizon 5 was more than happy to let my buy the map for 3 dollars while streaming. MS for sure doesn’t want to give Apple any of that revenue since Apple really isn’t doing anything at all (from MS perspective) to “earn“ it.

 

[I7guy]

[…]

So when Apple says on their website that it's safe right before a customer buys the goods and yields Apple money and Phil Schiller says it's not when it means that money can't be stolen from other companies and customers, it's politics and money from the EU?

[….]

It’s like the marketing slogan “what happens on your iPhone….”. As a matter of strict truth it’s false it it’s a marketing slogan. But the aspersers who pick apple apart had a field day with it. And the same thing here. The App Store is a vetted safe space like your home. Unfortunately bad things can happen in your home and bad apps can sneak into the App Store.

And having unmanaged spaces provides additional vectors of attack.

But with the EU it’s politics.

 

[Wowereit]

"I'm a big fan of how Windows works, and you've got a Microsoft Store on Windows, you've got Steam, you've got the Epic Games Store, you've got GOG."

What else could he possibly say? If Microsoft could snap their fingers and pull every single windows app/program into a walled garden store, they would, shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Yup, it's not some principled stance, they tried pushing people towards the Windows Store and failed miserably.

Also look at Xbox and how open that is. Wait, it isn't open at all? And the fee is 30%? Sounds familiar.

 

[bgillander]

The developers already paid their developer fee.

I told Costco I had already paid their membership fee, but they told me “that wasn’t the way it worked” and still wanted me to pay for my items at the checkout on the way out.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Thye have a right t decide what markets they want to be in and be profitable in, independent of device sales.

Absolutely. As ling as there’s fair competition in the markets they’re entering.

Which meant they assured profits via regulation.

Not really, no. The regula

Cost has nothing to do with pricing

Of course. In competitive markets pricing and average costs converge (though rarely completel)

 

[visualseed]

Malicious compliance by Apple: trying to obey the law without actually obeying. Let’s hope the EU strikes down Apple

That’s exactly what malicious compliance is in his case. There’s the exact letter of the law and there’s the intend of the law.

There is either compliance or non-compliance. Protecting one from "Rump-hurt" is not a legal requirement. Those that run around and say things like "malicious compliance" or "spirit of the law" have little understanding of law. If Apple is complying with the letter of the law, they are in compliance. Nothing more. Nothing less. And short of changing the law or a court ruling differently, there is not much that can be done about it. The law was already very narrowly tailored as to not step on fundamental business interests of companies operating in the EU while still presenting itself as a political win against "Big Tech." Limiting a company from charging for its IP and services for political points would be akin to unlawful nationalization and would have long-lasting negative repercussions throughout the entire bloc across nearly every industry and market segment.

My guess is that things don't fundamentally change for Apple and EU consumers are left worse off because of this law with Apple being forced to unbundle core features and few companies stepping up to offer compelling replacements with the same level of integration.

 

[jlc1978]

Of course. In competitive markets pricing and average costs converge (though rarely completel)

Actually, marginal but in a perfectly competitive market you describe there is also no innovation or investment because there is no ability to recoup investments or economies of scale, everyone is a price taker.

 

[makitango]

I'm ignoring it because you are acting bizarrely. My original post was to say if Xbox are so concerned with opening up closed ecosystems, they have a closed ecosystem of their own. That's it, pointing out the hypocrisy. It has nothing to do with guns or any of the other rambling nonsense you're bringing up.

I am not the one acting bizarrely, that would be you comparing a gaming console of one manufacturer serving a minority of people in a niché field with a smartphone of another company serving a majority in the most mainstream field.

This just isn’t true. The average user, not people in this forum, but the people that ask for tech help from people in this forum, do not choose their marketplace/appstore based on the financial pull of the owner of the owner of the market place. If that were true Walmart wouldn’t exist.

Users almost always use the default apps, that’s why Google pays so much to be default search engine, that’s why Edge asks everytime you open it to be the default browser, that’s why the EU made a law to prompt the user to choose defaults the first time you start your phone, because once you set it, you never change it.

The only time a user will change some from the default is when the default is so horrible that it becomes the “the thing to do” IE -> Chrome/Firefox. Bing -> Google/duck duck go.

Apple AppStore is very secure and makes it so easy to get refunds and cancel subscriptions, all it takes is one other market place to have one report of “I had to CALL” or “It took 2 emails” to cancel. And the word will spread to not side load other market places. And sense most of these other market places will be aimed at kids charging up parents credit cards for in game purchases, it going to be interesting to see how quick the public looses trust in these.

Apple's App Store offers zero security, their notarization does. Also what you said what wouldn't be true is a false statement. Maybe do some research as to whether or not people download games on the Mac on Steam or on the Mac App Store, and how the numbers compare.
You can also read about those statements in the executive emails they have been sending to one another.

Overblown? Do you think people today live healthier lives then in years past? Are people feeling more content with their lives than before? Considering suicide and depression having risen dramatically in Gen Y and Gen Z, I'm not sure I would say this is a good thing.



I disagree. Microsoft is a corporation and they need to make money. If they don't believe they can earn profit from iOS then they should stay out. Yes, sometimes companies need to service their customer base with unpopular items, but I agree than unprofitable items should rarely been on the table.

I think the folks here only want Apple to make money and not the other ones.

Company that failed at producing a mobile OS, mobile hardware and a mobile ecosystem that consumers wanted to buy wants a free pass from a company that DID succeed at the above. Film at 11.

In other news, a company that maintains a closed ecosystem doesn’t want any other companies to maintain a closed ecosystem. Especially companies that have been wildly successful at building closed ecosystems.

Company that fails to make its own country wants a free pass to the citizens of another.

Sounds like EU should stop making laws if they don't know how to achieve their intentions/goals of said law.

Sounds like someone needs to look up the date first and read the EU commission's reaction. Note: The date is 7 March.

if EU can't handle complex legislation, they shouldn't be legislating

Can't handle it because you don't like the law and don't want Apple to get sued?

That is not what the OP claimed in regard to telco regulation. My point, however, unless tehre is a profit companies will exit a regulated environment

Good look as a carrier exiting your own territory and reaching the customers of the market you just exited. Someone else will fill that gap gladly.

I take it you agree Apple can charge for APP Store access?

I agree that they can charge whatever they want for their marketplace. I disagree on their move to still not comply with the law and prevent free access.

However, Apple is providing access to the platform as required. People are complaining about the CTF but that appears to be an allowable fee for access to the App Store user base. Judging by the comments, some posters expect Apple to allow free access to the App Store for any app that wants to use 3rd party payments or is on the App Store; thus conflating the platforms - iOS and the App Store. That is not a reasonable thing, IMHO, and not required by the DMA.

They just added an inception App Store with another set of fees, thus not allowing free access.

If sideloading is implemented similar to the Mac, a developer or store could access the platform free of charge independent of Apple's App Store.

It will be interesting to see how the EU states differentiate Apple's 2 core platforms - iOS and the App Store when it comes to fees and accessibility.

One is the platform, another one is a marketplace. They know that, they have their own tech commissions.

Except it had a design flaw, unlike Lightening.

Lightning's design flaw was its impossiblility to ugrade the protocol with the hardware it has.

Which is perfectly fine by USB-C standards and EU regulations since it is a data protocol that uses a standard connector design.

I don't think TB is a MFi replacement, however, since it is only used for high speed data transfer where MFi worked across all protocols on inexpensive to make cables that could be longer than TB cables as well.

Again, just a middlefinger from Apple towards the environment. Petty dollar behaviour for yet another toll on the environment from a self-declared friend to the environment.

As I have cited out, sideloading would allow that. Access to the App Store can incur a fee, per the DMA.

And they need to let go of that.

Sure, and charge for notarization. Give developers a choice.

Notarization was always free.

It’s like the marketing slogan “what happens on your iPhone….”. As a matter of strict truth it’s false it it’s a marketing slogan. But the aspersers who pick apple apart had a field day with it. And the same thing here. The App Store is a vetted safe space like your home. Unfortunately bad things can happen in your home and bad apps can sneak into the App Store.

The App Store is not a safe space. The App Store is a place Apple calls safe. Big difference.

And having unmanaged spaces provides additional vectors of attack.

You manage that space by securing your OS. But Apple invests more money in preparing execs for interviews and paying them extra AAPLs, investing in more emojis and AVP personas with motion blur and pay contractors to grind through social media to change the narrative than to actually fix their security.

But with the EU it’s politics.

Yeah and with other states is not, right?

Yup, it's not some principled stance, they tried pushing people towards the Windows Store and failed miserably.

Also look at Xbox and how open that is. Wait, it isn't open at all? And the fee is 30%? Sounds familiar.

Kudos for comparing a gaming console with neglicible influence over a niché hobby with a smartphone, the #1 device of all humans, with the most massive industry and market behind it, where only two OS' rule them all.

 

[gaximus]

Apple's App Store offers zero security, their notarization does. Also what you said what wouldn't be true is a false statement. Maybe do some research as to whether or not people download games on the Mac on Steam or on the Mac App Store, and how the numbers compare.

Apple’s App store offering security through Apple’s notarization is the same thing as their App Store providing security, especially if you can’t get that same notarization outside of the App Store. And I wasn’t talking about just software security but security of peace of mind about refunds and giving credit card info to the other stores.

And what numbers are you talking about? You posted no references? I also said average users, Mac on Steam users are gamers, not average users. And what numbers are you comparing from Steam and Mac App Store? App vs app downloads, because if not, then they aren't comparable numbers.

 

[makitango]

Apple’s App store offering security through Apple’s notarization is the same thing as their App Store providing security, especially if you can’t get that same notarization outside of the App Store. And I wasn’t talking about just software security but security of peace of mind about refunds and giving credit card info to the other stores.

And what numbers are you talking about? You posted no references? I also said average users, Mac on Steam users are gamers, not average users. And what numbers are you comparing from Steam and Mac App Store? App vs app downloads, because if not, then they aren't comparable numbers.

Of course they are comparable. It's one category (gaming) inside the App Store vs outside the App Store.

They show a reference and Apple is afraid that reference comes true in other categories which is why they locked it down.

 

[I7guy]

[....]

You manage that space by securing your OS. But Apple invests more money in preparing execs for interviews and paying them extra AAPLs, investing in more emojis and AVP personas with motion blur and pay contractors to grind through social media to change the narrative than to actually fix their security.
[....]

Does not take away that multiple vectors of attack will be opened up no matter the spin.

 

[Hikerdave]

So where is XBox’s side loading stores?