Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft Objects to Apple's 'App Store' Trademark Application
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Well that may be the case, but that's irrelevant here. I'm not talking about the actual appearance or functionality, but the fact that they chose to call it "Windows". They invented the "naming" of the product. Just like Apple calls their stuff "Apple".
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
I would be shocked to find out apple didn't win this case. Apple has long, long used the term application while MS has used programs. I've never seen a .app extension in windows, I've never heard it used to describe anything in Linux or unix for that matter. How on earth would you argue apple didn't propagate the application terminology. Every software store on any device before the iPhone was not called an app store, or an app anything. The term only became generic post iPhone, and really iPhone OS 2.0. Even the term web apps only became popular after iPhone OS 1.0.
And windows is a very generic term in pc lingo. It has been almost universal to call the space a program (or application, if your running a Mac...) runs inside a window. The fact that MS trademarked the name of that space is identical to apple getting the right to app store.
I would be shocked to find out apple didn't win this case. Apple has long, long used the term application while MS has used programs. I've never seen a .app extension in windows, I've never heard it used to describe anything in Linux or unix for that matter. How on earth would you argue apple didn't propagate the application terminology. Every software store on any device before the iPhone was not called an app store, or an app anything. The term only became generic post iPhone, and really iPhone OS 2.0. Even the term web apps only became popular after iPhone OS 1.0.
And windows is a very generic term in pc lingo. It has been almost universal to call the space a program (or application, if your running a Mac...) runs inside a window. The fact that MS trademarked the name of that space is identical to apple getting the right to app store.
Microsoft v. Lindows.com, Inc. was a court case brought by Microsoft against Lindows, Inc in December 2001 [1], claiming that the name "Lindows" was a violation of its trademark "Windows."
After two and a half years of court battles, Microsoft paid US$20 million for the Lindows trademark, and Lindows Inc. became Linspire Inc.
"Office" is not trademarked. Neither is "Word" or "Live", etc.
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/EN-US.aspx
Another very good reason why noone should have a trademark on the term App store. As the average user only knows that their phone runs apps, apps are fun etc etc, so why should apple have the trademark on this store. How about everyone has a distinct name so there is no confusion. I think its unfair on everyone but Apple users when they hear the term app store and think it relates to Android, win$ etc.
So you mean adding a generic term to "App" makes it ok? So I could file for "App Help" or "App Info" or "App Update"? How about "Comic book store" or "Vegetable market"?
Real funny, Microsoft:
"Any secondary meaning or fame Apple has in 'App Store' is de facto secondary meaning that cannot convert the generic term 'app store' into a protectable trademark," write lawyers for Microsoft in a motion for summary judgment, filed yesterday with the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board. "Apple cannot block competitors from using a generic name. 'App store' is generic and therefore in the public domain and free for all competitors to use."
And what about using the GENERIC TERM WINDOWS ??????
"Any secondary meaning or fame Apple has in 'App Store' is de facto secondary meaning that cannot convert the generic term 'app store' into a protectable trademark," write lawyers for Microsoft in a motion for summary judgment, filed yesterday with the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board. "Apple cannot block competitors from using a generic name. 'App store' is generic and therefore in the public domain and free for all competitors to use."
And what about using the GENERIC TERM WINDOWS ??????
I didn't call M$ evil. I just related their product to excrement, a widely held view.
And yes Apple essentially did. They borrowed/paid for some things and were given other elements from Xerox and brought much in the way of new innovation and release the first to market consumer windowed OS GUI. Since the release of it and subsequent release of Windows, both companies have certainly improved their OSes based on some elements from the other, with the significant majority of innovation of Apple's side, and the significant majority of copying and catching up on the M$ side. At the end of the day it is good for the consumer, though many of us, choose if the situation permits (our jobs notwithstanding) to utilize the Apple OS in favor of the more problematic one. More often than not the people of this forum/community are of that preference and choose to discuss aspects of it. That doesn't indicate fanaticism, fanboys, or tin foil, just choice and freedom of speech.
Say what? What are those things that applications display content in? What is the first entry under Safaris File menu? Windows are a primary component of a WIMP system.
Microsoft named its OS after a single component of a GUIit would be like Mac calling its OS Icon, we could be running Icon X now. I like it.
And to parrot what others have said Apple has the prior art on this one.
There are many examples of trademarks that have become "generic terms", e.g. hoover (in the UK), coke (meaning any cola). Generally it points towards market dominance for the company concerned. Perhaps this is what Microsoft is conceding!
I actually second this. Although microsoft has a valid point, this isnt the first time this happened and realistically Apple was first one at this game. (not saying apple invented app stores. but they sure perfected the idea first)
"here have a kleenex" obviously im talking about a face whipe. How did you know?!
Well, they can't. MS already lost their trademarks on Windows and Word due to the fact that they were seen as too generic. I think same applies to App Store. Applications have always been apps so sticking store in the end doesn't change anything.
Wait, wait, wait, read my post again, I don't agree with Apple and I've even used similar examples.
Not quite. (TM) can be used whether or not a trademark application has been filed. Trademarks need not be registered or even applied for, but doing so grants nationwide rights that otherwise would only exist in the actual geographic regions and channels of commerce where the trademark is actually used. The use of "TM" indicates that you are using the mark to designate origin and may put potential infringers on notice for the purpose of accruing damages, but has nothing to do with whether you've filed for a trademark.
If you do successfully register a mark, you can use:
1. "Reg U.S. Pat. & Tm. Off."-OR-
2. (r) -OR-
3. "Registered U.S. Patent and Trademark Office"
You do realize that as far as trademarks go, GUI elements called "windows" and an OS called "Windows" are two totally separate things???
Otherwise, Microsoft could claim Apple is violating their trademark by having a "Window" menu. But they are not referring to the same thing. The Window menu is referring to GUI window elements. Microsoft is referring to an OS named Windows. Apple could certainly name their OS "Icon" and probably trademark it as a NAME FOR AN OS.
Is that true? They have "Windows" on this page: http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/EN-US.aspx
Wrong again. Windows XP executable are referred to as APPLICATIONS. Screen shot attached.
Attachments
Sure. I'm sure you can point to your first to market, ubiquitous and proliferated use of it in mass culture. You can't trademark a idea, only a product. I'm fairly sure M$ can trademark Windows Marketplace and Google, Android Market without others laying claim to use of such. Vegetable market just makes you sound kinda dumb. But go for it. Can you name other official operating App Stores called such or are you trying to protect future companies from having to come up with their own names. Does DirecTV have a trademark on Sunday Ticket. Is having a ticket to a game on Sunday something many people have. But as the name for their one and only NFL contracted football package, I'm fairly sure it is trademarked and whatnot, even though both Sunday and Ticket are ordinary words.
I was not targeting you particularly but just everyone who "agrees with Apple!".
But it does...secondary meaning can transform a descriptive mark into one that has acquired distinctiveness, and is accordingly capable of trademark.
Its true that the words "App Store" came about in that combination as an actual store under apple. However, the word "App Store" can be used to describe, well, a store that sells apps. And this is the problem. A "Walking Man" is not the same thing as a Walkman. You can't trademark walking man as in suing everyone for walking, but you can sue someone for calling a portable cassette player a walkman. Same with ipod.
The reality is App Store has been embraced by the public, yet there's no argument over say, Microsoft wanting a store named iTunes. This is because its a descriptive name. Anyone who's taken a business law class can tell you due to the fact its a descriptive name, you shouldn't be able to get a trademark on it. And you don't seem to be understanding that. Apple App Store is fine. iApp is fine. Application Store is not. And App Store is not for the same reason. Even if Apple popularized the term, they didn't INVENT the term. Its like opening a supermarket named "Market" and then refusing to let anyone use that word in any form in their advertising. Since its a descriptive name, it is not allowed, unless its exempted or grandfathered.
And this is true no matter how much you like Apple or dislike Microsoft.
Question: Since when have you been on the internet?
2nd Question: Have you ever been into piracy?
Just asking, because I remember the time when I was a young pirate in the mid 90s and used Altavista (yes, there was a time before Google) to browse for WAREZ and APPZ.
The term App was used for a software application way before the iPhone and way before the .app extension. So your claim has little to no value.