Microsoft Office 2015 (2016?)

[sracer]

Microsoft Office is definitely central to my workflow. Even more: in the environment I live and work, everybody uses Office and is expected to use Office, to the point that most of the people do not even know that something else exists. It is hard to replace it since it has more features than any other office suite and I have to keep compatible.

I could never use a US$ 300 netbook. To be honest, I bought my MacBook Pro because of its superior hardware. When I bought it, in June 2013, it was the only laptop that featured an IPS display with a resolution higher than Full HD. It had good components, and an SSD instead of the sluggish HDD used by most laptops. It had premium materials, and not that cheap feel of most PC counterparts. It has a great keyboard and trackpad. It has no heating issues. It is a great machine. Great hardware. When I bought it, the MacBook Pro was the only laptop that met my requirements. I set the bar high, I have to admit it.

As for software, I knew I would have to live with Office 2011 for some time, but I expected Microsoft to release a new version soon. The Windows version had come out a few months earlier, and there had been almost three years since the release of the last Mac version. How would I know that Microsoft would delay the launch for so much time? And how would I know that, after four years without a release, Apple would dumb-down iWork so that it improved its position as the office suite with less features in the whole world?

If I had to choose a laptop now, I don't know if I would buy a Mac again. Hardware is great. The problem is software. I mean, I do like OS X, it is fine. But what if I want to run other software, especially productivity software, that does not come out-of-the box?

As for the netbook thing, I would never buy one. I want an ultra-high resolution display, fast responses, premium materials, and a great keyboard and trackpad.

I understand, and because MS Office is central to your workflow it wouldn't make sense to get a cheap netbook. For me, my primary workflow is virtually exclusively OSX. For those few occasions when I have a marathon MS Office work session, I can deal with the netbook.

Sounds like you need to buy a premium Windows notebook. Thankfully, those now exist.

 

[skaertus]

I understand, and because MS Office is central to your workflow it wouldn't make sense to get a cheap netbook. For me, my primary workflow is virtually exclusively OSX. For those few occasions when I have a marathon MS Office work session, I can deal with the netbook.

Sounds like you need to buy a premium Windows notebook. Thankfully, those now exist.

Or perhaps Microsoft could just release a better Office for Mac.

(By the way, did you see that Apple is apparently updating iWork with Yosemite? I am not counting on that, but is it possible that iWork suddenly becomes something reasonably usable? http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/30/yosem...at-new-versions-of-pages-and-keynote-for-mac/)

 

[sracer]

Or perhaps Microsoft could just release a better Office for Mac.

(By the way, did you see that Apple is apparently updating iWork with Yosemite? I am not counting on that, but is it possible that iWork suddenly becomes something reasonably usable? http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/30/yosem...at-new-versions-of-pages-and-keynote-for-mac/)

It's nice that they're working on it. The screenshot of Pages doesn't look promising though. There are a TON of features missing from the current version of the iWork apps that it would be a monumental task just to bring them up to the level of iWork '09.

I've gotten the impression over the last 2+ years that Apple believes that their OSX devices are sufficiently appealing that they no longer have to provide a well-rounded all-encompassing software experience.

 

[wallaby]

skaertus, I feel your pain. Office 2011 is just a pile of poorly optimized code, and I've tried to migrate away in any way possible. Thankfully I've been able to use Postbox instead of Outlook (which just churns the hard disk any time a calendar event comes up), but I still cringe whenever I have to start up Word, which is several times a day usually. Thankfully, a lot of writing can be done in other apps and then copied over. I use Google Sheets whenever possible to stay out of Excel.

If Microsoft optimized their office suite to work as well in OS X as it does on Windows, I'd be smitten. It's baffling how smoothly my Windows copy of Office 2010 runs.

 

[skaertus]

It's nice that they're working on it. The screenshot of Pages doesn't look promising though. There are a TON of features missing from the current version of the iWork apps that it would be a monumental task just to bring them up to the level of iWork '09.

I've gotten the impression over the last 2+ years that Apple believes that their OSX devices are sufficiently appealing that they no longer have to provide a well-rounded all-encompassing software experience.

iWork '09 was lagging behind Office, and it missed important features – Pages did not support cross-references and could not even split footnotes. But at least I had hope that Apple would improve it over time. The new iWork has even less features.

The impression I have is that Apple does not care about Macs anymore. Apple is expanding its line of products to provide very superficial technology in more fields. I read an interview of Tim Cook where he said he uses an iPad for 80% of his needs, and that he believed most people do not need a computer. Perhaps this new Apple way of doing things is based on this belief.

If you look at Apple's line-up under Tim Cook, you may see that the new products that have been announced are very superficial in what they do. CarPlay. Apple Watch. They look nice, but what can they really do in terms of features? I don't see in-depth features in anything Apple has been doing under Tim Cook.

I am losing faith in Apple. I do not want my computers to do simple stuff. I want my computers to do increasingly complex stuff. If Apple wants to keep it simple by cutting off features and therefore to make it perfectly usable by anybody, then somebody else should fill that gap. That is why I am counting on Microsoft to release a decent office suite for the Mac. It's all Apple's fault after all that I have to rely on Apple's rivals to release software that Apple refuses to make.

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skaertus, I feel your pain. Office 2011 is just a pile of poorly optimized code, and I've tried to migrate away in any way possible. Thankfully I've been able to use Postbox instead of Outlook (which just churns the hard disk any time a calendar event comes up), but I still cringe whenever I have to start up Word, which is several times a day usually. Thankfully, a lot of writing can be done in other apps and then copied over. I use Google Sheets whenever possible to stay out of Excel.

If Microsoft optimized their office suite to work as well in OS X as it does on Windows, I'd be smitten. It's baffling how smoothly my Windows copy of Office 2010 runs.

There are alternatives to Office 2011, but they are all poor alternatives. I don't know why I should bother trying them when I can just use Office 2013, which is simply great.

 

[5097842]

I'm hoping that Microsoft will announce Office Mac 2015 at the Yosemite launch, showcasing that it uses the latest Yosemite features. The same team that did Office for iPad is working on the new Mac Office, which raises my expectations. At least I can dream, right?

 

[maflynn]

I'm hoping that Microsoft will announce Office Mac 2015 at the Yosemite launch, showcasing that it uses the latest Yosemite features. The same team that did Office for iPad is working on the new Mac Office, which raises my expectations. At least I can dream, right?

Apple isn't going to have an event to release Yosemite, so there will be no venue to showcase the product. I don't think MS is really interested in showing how great OS X is with Office because they still want people to buy/use Windows.

 

[skaertus]

I'm hoping that Microsoft will announce Office Mac 2015 at the Yosemite launch, showcasing that it uses the latest Yosemite features. The same team that did Office for iPad is working on the new Mac Office, which raises my expectations. At least I can dream, right?

You can dream, but it is unlikely to happen.

The Yosemite launch will be an Apple event, and Microsoft will probably not show up. There is not even a beta version of Office for Mac available to the public.

And yes, the same team that did Office for iPad is also working on the next Office for Mac. However, it is the same team that developed Office 2011 for Mac. So, while I do expect the next Mac Office to be similar in interface to OneNote for Mac, I am not expecting any miracles here.

 

[maflynn]

You can dream, but it is unlikely to happen.

The Yosemite launch will be an Apple event, and Microsoft will probably not show up. There is not even a beta version of Office for Mac available to the public.

I don't think they're going to have a media event just of the release of OS X. I don't recall them doing that before. They'll just announce the availability date and/or make it available suddenly.

 

[skaertus]

I don't think they're going to have a media event just of the release of OS X. I don't recall them doing that before. They'll just announce the availability date and/or make it available suddenly.

Well, last year Apple introduced OS X Mavericks together with new Macs and iPads at an event. I think Apple may do something similar this year. It looks like it will hold an event on October 21, and new iPads and Macs (MacMini?) are supposed to be announced. I would not be surprised if Yosemite is released at the same time.

However, I do not see Microsoft releasing Office for Mac together with this event. Office would not have so much attention from the press if it would compete with the launch of new iPads.

 

[maflynn]

Apple had a lot of products to release last year. It wasn't an OS X event but rather a Mac event, quite unusual when compared to prior years.

Apple only has the rumored Mac Mini and that will probably be a silent update. Now that we're in October, we're quickly approaching the holiday shopping season and if apple were to do anything, it would have be very soon.

I think since there's a lack of hardware coming out of Cupertino this year, we'll see no such event

 

[skaertus]

Apple isn't going to have an event to release Yosemite, so there will be no venue to showcase the product. I don't think MS is really interested in showing how great OS X is with Office because they still want people to buy/use Windows.

As much as Microsoft wants people to buy/use Windows, it is also interested in showing how capable and cross-platform Office is.

And, to be honest, OS X is not a real competitor to Windows. The cheapest Mac costs US$ 900, and there are Windows laptops being released for as low as US$ 200. A few Windows laptops are sold for more than US$ 1,000 these days, and OS X has a market share of something between 5-7%. That is not a threat to Microsoft.

It is more important to Microsoft to release a great cross-platform Office before Google improves its Drive to meet the needs of every iPad/Mac/Android customers.

 

[maflynn]

As much as Microsoft wants people to buy/use Windows, it is also interested in showing how capable and cross-platform Office is..

I'm not so sure about that. I mean their actions speak louder then their words. Between the quality of the product (inferior to its window's counterpart) and their upgrade cycle (long stretches between updates), I'd say that MS is not really interested in highlighting its OS X product, particularly over its windows version.

 

[skaertus]

Apple had a lot of products to release last year. It wasn't an OS X event but rather a Mac event, quite unusual when compared to prior years.



Apple only has the rumored Mac Mini and that will probably be a silent update. Now that we're in October, we're quickly approaching the holiday shopping season and if apple were to do anything, it would have be very soon.



I think since there's a lack of hardware coming out of Cupertino this year, we'll see no such event

I am not sure about this lack of hardware. We will get at least an iPad event, I think. Perhaps Apple uses this event to release a minor update to the Mac Mini. Or even a brand new MacBook Air or iMac launch, although I think this is unlikely.

Anyway, last year's event was not that unusual, given that Apple held a similar event in October 2012, when it released the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro and the iPad Mini.

 

[sracer]

I'm not so sure about that. I mean their actions speak louder then their words. Between the quality of the product (inferior to its window's counterpart) and their upgrade cycle (long stretches between updates), I'd say that MS is not really interested in highlighting its OS X product, particularly over its windows version.

This is true.

When I consider that OneNote only recently included support for free-form drawing in it's Android version but is still absent from the iOS and OSX versions, gives an indication as to their priorities.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the primary purpose of Office for iPad was not part of a larger plan to have "Office everywhere" but to draw people into Office 365 subscriptions.

 

[FHayek]

As much as Microsoft wants people to buy/use Windows, it is also interested in showing how capable and cross-platform Office is.

And, to be honest, OS X is not a real competitor to Windows. The cheapest Mac costs US$ 900, and there are Windows laptops being released for as low as US$ 200. A few Windows laptops are sold for more than US$ 1,000 these days, and OS X has a market share of something between 5-7%. That is not a threat to Microsoft.

It is more important to Microsoft to release a great cross-platform Office before Google improves its Drive to meet the needs of every iPad/Mac/Android customers.

If OSX is not a real competitor or threat, why do you think MS has ANY reason to rollout a souped-up version of Office for Mac. Sure, they might yield some share to Google, but until Office is no longer the gold standard, especially their mail client, forget it.

A friend of mine at Microsoft told me the Office for Mac is immaterial to their business. I assume one day they will punt the unit all together. Perhaps they will go to a subscription based Office for Mac, but that too is doubtful.

I love my MBA, but still need Outlook and run it via a vm. MS knows the Office is king, period.

Lastly, why doesn't Apple try to develop a strong mail client. I don't know anyone at Apple, but cannot believe they use Mail as the PIM.

FH

 

[porthole2]

Lastly, why doesn't Apple try to develop a strong mail client. I don't know anyone at Apple, but cannot believe they use Mail as the PIM.

Still trying to get around the whole Mac thing after be a lifetime PC user.
Mail just does not integrate the way I am I am accustomed to (Office since it was first out).

If it would at least mirror my iPad and iPhone I would be OK with it. But since I really don't know any other way other then using gmail as a go between I am stuck with a clunky mail program.

 

[MacTCE]

If OSX is not a real competitor or threat, why do you think MS has ANY reason to rollout a souped-up version of Office for Mac. Sure, they might yield some share to Google, but until Office is no longer the gold standard, especially their mail client, forget it.

A friend of mine at Microsoft told me the Office for Mac is immaterial to their business. I assume one day they will punt the unit all together. Perhaps they will go to a subscription based Office for Mac, but that too is doubtful.

I love my MBA, but still need Outlook and run it via a vm. MS knows the Office is king, period.

Lastly, why doesn't Apple try to develop a strong mail client. I don't know anyone at Apple, but cannot believe they use Mail as the PIM.

FH

The only reason that MS Office is the "gold standard" is due to their hold in the enterprise space. With so many alternative, cheaper options, and changes in the way people do business I can see Office not being the suite of choice anymore. I work in fairly large organization (10,000+ employees) and every year we look at alternatives to MS Office, Exchange, etc. So I can see the shift coming sooner than later. Especially with the new partnership between Apple and IBM.

 

[jobesucks]

I just hope they add caldav support to outlook, but i aint holding my breath on that

 

[Traverse]

I understand, and because MS Office is central to your workflow it wouldn't make sense to get a cheap netbook. For me, my primary workflow is virtually exclusively OSX. For those few occasions when I have a marathon MS Office work session, I can deal with the netbook.

Sounds like you need to buy a premium Windows notebook. Thankfully, those now exist.

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to run in in Bootcamp/VMWare/Parallels?

Or is a dedicated windows machine just a better experience?

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It is more important to Microsoft to release a great cross-platform Office before Google improves its Drive to meet the needs of every iPad/Mac/Android customers.

You know, I believed that for a time. Right after OneNote came to Mac and Office for iPad I briefly believed that they were moving to a quality multi-platform software company because Windows is not in danger, but sadly I've let that go.

The fact that the iPad version still has no drawing capabilities and the fact that OneNote for Mac is so crippled with no promise proves to me that they aren't going to be that company. It's just the way it is.

 

[FHayek]

The only reason that MS Office is the "gold standard" is due to their hold in the enterprise space. With so many alternative, cheaper options, and changes in the way people do business I can see Office not being the suite of choice anymore. I work in fairly large organization (10,000+ employees) and every year we look at alternatives to MS Office, Exchange, etc. So I can see the shift coming sooner than later. Especially with the new partnership between Apple and IBM.

Sooner rather than later, really? What time frame does that denote?

I would bet we'll see lower pricing from MS, especially as they sell more subscription based products.

 

[sracer]

Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to run in in Bootcamp/VMWare/Parallels?

Or is a dedicated windows machine just a better experience?

Bootcamp is too disruptive to my workflow. Running Office in a VM under OSX is better but I find that wrinkles with integration can cause more frustrations than running it on a separate machine. And finally, it gives me a reason to buy another machine.

You know, I believed that for a time. Right after OneNote came to Mac and Office for iPad I briefly believed that they were moving to a quality multi-platform software company because Windows is not in danger, but sadly I've let that go.

The fact that the iPad version still has no drawing capabilities and the fact that OneNote for Mac is so crippled with no promise proves to me that they aren't going to be that company. It's just the way it is.

Exactly. Microsoft may have received a revenue bump by those who wanted to use Office for iPad in their workflow, but without true parity between platforms that bump will be short-lived.

I could justify the cost of subscription because of the number of licenses and the potential for frequent upgrades, but if I'm going to be hampered on my OSX and iOS platforms, then I'll simply stick with iWork 09 and LibreOffice for most things and my trusty copy of Office 2003 for everything else.

 

[skaertus]

I'm not so sure about that. I mean their actions speak louder then their words. Between the quality of the product (inferior to its window's counterpart) and their upgrade cycle (long stretches between updates), I'd say that MS is not really interested in highlighting its OS X product, particularly over its windows version.

Yes, that is for sure. But it does not mean that Microsoft is delaying the release of Mac Office because it does not want it to compete with Windows Office. I just think that Microsoft is not willing to spend so much money in Office for Mac because the user base does not male it worth it.

 

[skaertus]

I'm coming to the conclusion that the primary purpose of Office for iPad was not part of a larger plan to have "Office everywhere" but to draw people into Office 365 subscriptions.

Perhaps it is more like keeping people away from Google Drive.

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If OSX is not a real competitor or threat, why do you think MS has ANY reason to rollout a souped-up version of Office for Mac. Sure, they might yield some share to Google, but until Office is no longer the gold standard, especially their mail client, forget it.

Because Microsoft is not willing to invest millions and millions of dollars in developing something that does not bring so much return. Microsoft is probably investing more than one billion dollars per year in Office for Windows these days. It just does not make sense to spend this kind of money in Office for Mac. But Office for Mac should be at least good enough for people to use at home.

A friend of mine at Microsoft told me the Office for Mac is immaterial to their business. I assume one day they will punt the unit all together. Perhaps they will go to a subscription based Office for Mac, but that too is doubtful.

Exactly. Office for Mac is immaterial. Perhaps the only reason why Microsoft still releases it is as a strategy to be omnipresent.

I love my MBA, but still need Outlook and run it via a vm. MS knows the Office is king, period.

Lastly, why doesn't Apple try to develop a strong mail client. I don't know anyone at Apple, but cannot believe they use Mail as the PIM.

FH

I do not think anyone at Apple uses its own Mail client. And I do not think they use iWork either. They should use something else. Perhaps even Microsoft Office for Windows...

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Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to run in in Bootcamp/VMWare/Parallels?

Or is a dedicated windows machine just a better experience?

I am very disappointed at Boot Camp. Apple drivers are so terrible that the whole experience is bad. I cannot get the trackpad to run well on Boot Camp, no matter what I try (Trackpad++ is terrible as well).

Parallels runs fine, but there is a performance penalty. Plus, it consumes too much battery life to have two operating systems running simultaneously.

A dedicated Windows machine would provide a better overall experience. Of course, it depends on the Windows machine. A US$ 200 laptop will almost certainly be much worse than Boot Camp or Parallels.

You know, I believed that for a time. Right after OneNote came to Mac and Office for iPad I briefly believed that they were moving to a quality multi-platform software company because Windows is not in danger, but sadly I've let that go.

The fact that the iPad version still has no drawing capabilities and the fact that OneNote for Mac is so crippled with no promise proves to me that they aren't going to be that company. It's just the way it is.

Perhaps they just do not have the budget to develop all that in time. It takes time to make such complex and fully-featured software.

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The only reason that MS Office is the "gold standard" is due to their hold in the enterprise space. With so many alternative, cheaper options, and changes in the way people do business I can see Office not being the suite of choice anymore. I work in fairly large organization (10,000+ employees) and every year we look at alternatives to MS Office, Exchange, etc. So I can see the shift coming sooner than later. Especially with the new partnership between Apple and IBM.

I don't know.

Office is great software, and is one of the most important products of one of the largest companies in the world.

Apple is focused on other stuff – iPhones, iPads and, apparenty, watches. IBM is focused on other things as well. None of them has an office suite which is nearly on par with Microsoft Office.

And I do not think they will ever come to challenge Microsoft on that. Neither Apple nor IBM will be able to spend billion-dollar budgets on making an office suite better than Microsoft's. Their partnership is a great marketing strategy and, while they may be willing to join forces to a certain extent, they certainly will not share their deepest secrets nor will they spend a lot of money in developing one product. They are not a contender here.

 

[mjt57]

I just hope they add caldav support to outlook, but i aint holding my breath on that

Yep, this is the one thing that stops me from using Outlook on the Mac. Currently using Thunderbird with the various Calendar and Google Calendar add-ons.