Microsoft Previews Windows 8 for Tablets and PCs

[brdeveloper]

Actually if you did research you'd find apple spends much less then MS on r&d, but gets a much higher ROI then Microsoft does.

Metro UI is different, but it reminds too much of the crappy 90's web portals. Metro tries too hard to be easy to use, and appears to be a bit more convoluted.

Btw, I know you're not a UI designer, but visual cues are superior to typography.

People react quicker to visual cues.

I agree in regard to visual cues being superior than typography, but I can understand why MS has chosen this approach: it's expected that Win8 UI will be plenty of "widgetcons" or "live icons" or whatever name they have. So I think most text-only icons will be static ones opposing live ones.

Moreover, this is the death of "icon" metaphor. There aren't iconic images in its semiological meaning anymore. I don't know if it's better than icons but it's certainly innovative as it breaks an untouchable concept.

 

[KPOM]

Anyone get the beta to work in VMWare Fusion?

Not in Fusion, but I did get the 64-bit version installed in Parallels Desktop 7. To say it's buggy is an understatement, but I can see some of the appeal already. The Desktop truly is just one more Metro UI application. Metro UI is the basic interface, and it works surprisingly well even with the trackpad. I'm not sure if it's Windows 8 or Parallels, but the scrolling is "natural" just like in Lion.

 

[Claefer]

My question is not about iPhone sales.
I asked how many of those WP7 phones with the wonderful Metro UI that "everyone just loves" are actually sold?
Why would "everyone" rather buy an iPhone that costs 200 to 500 bucks more than a WP7 handset if "everyone" loves Metro UI and hates the "distracting" iOS home screen?

Put an Apple logo on it and . . .

 

[PeterQVenkman]

Dude really... step away from the pipe. You're hitting it way to hard. .

no, it's just a sign that they need to pass it along so the rest of us can take a hit.

 

[Mr. Gates]

All the naysayers are also people that never tried Windows 7

Mac is fine, nobody is disputing the Value of your expensive purchase. Don't worry, the Coffee shops will still greet you with open arms as you sit there on Facebook and pretend to be writing your book......

Mac still works for that.

And the countless hours of Angry Birds have not been wasted with your iPad because pretty soon all that practice will pay off with the new "Retina" display iPad . Man will those birdies be angry then

But for those interested in the idea of a full computing vision on any device and having it sync across your entire digital world ....Its Windows 8

For all the developers, no matter what language you code in, Windows 8 has you covered and is the logical choice.


I'll still use Mac for a few things, but Man am I exited for the future :WINDOWS 8 !

 

[Bernard SG]

Put an Apple logo on it and . . .

Well, we can also use Android as a benchmark. Even folks who are not in the market for a premium-priced device couldn't care less for your Metro UI that "everyone just loves"...

 

[slackpacker]

Not in Fusion, but I did get the 64-bit version installed in Parallels Desktop 7. To say it's buggy is an understatement, but I can see some of the appeal already. The Desktop truly is just one more Metro UI application. Metro UI is the basic interface, and it works surprisingly well even with the trackpad. I'm not sure if it's Windows 8 or Parallels, but the scrolling is "natural" just like in Lion.

Were you able to install Parallels Tools?

 

[MisterK]

Turned around

I was ready to not like this thing, but I'm watching a video "8 traits of great Metro style apps" and it's turning me around. I remember really disliking the Metro UI in an earlier incarnation mostly because I don't consider cutting off half of words as "typography" as every armchair designer was calling it. I'm still not crazy about the home screen or "desktop" on Windows 8, but I LOVE the handling of their apps. I love the contextual zooming (can't remember what exactly they called it). You see a high up view of some information... let's say a title of a news story and a sentence descriptor... you pinch to zoom in and now it shows you the entire story, not just making the letters bigger. There's some fantastic thinking that's gone into Windows 8. I'm really really impressed. I think there's a lot of good lessons learned from iPad (of course.. they'd be dumb not to), but you can tell that they absolutely did not just copy. They had lofty ambitions and I think they achieved a lot that they can be very proud of. They managed to make something that both looks futuristic and (for the most part) usable. This is a problem that I had with Microsoft's Kin concept... it looked very futuristic, but if you took a step back, you'd see that it was a very painful scrapbooking app that just looked futuristic (like the see through monitors in Avatar... futuristic looking, but why?).

After all this fawning, I do have a couple caveats. I don't like the home screen. I appreciate that they want to have a very personal space, but I have to read almost everything to understand what it does. Icons are still valuable. They've lost everything about the uniqueness and easy identification of an icon in the rectangle. It's not necessarily bad, per se, but it does make your desktop into a magazine like the iPad Flipboard app. Again.. THIS IS TOTALLY OK, but it is not a bridge for a tablet from consumption to creation device: it is an acceptance that it is just for consumption. I don't think Apple is ready to accept this yet and may yet disprove it beyond a few outliers. Microsoft may have been a little premature in this magazine style.

To summarize, I think this is an absolutely viable competitor and paves a very brave future that Apple should absolutely look to for inspiration. It makes content more beautiful and they have some pretty exciting ideas that are both aesthetically pleasing and very functional. Great use of gestures. Golf clap, Microsoft.. You did good.

 

[KPOM]

But for those interested in the idea of a full computing vision on any device and having it sync across your entire digital world ....Its Windows 8

For all the developers, no matter what language you code in, Windows 8 has you covered and is the logical choice.


I'll still use Mac for a few things, but Man am I exited for the future :WINDOWS 8 !

Well, with the cloud, our data will sync even if our devices have different capabilities. Microsoft and Apple have the same end-game. Apple is just being a little more conservative in going that route than Microsoft. MS for the past decade has held the notion that the tablet is just another PC. Apple views the tablet as a separate device primarily for consumption, rather than creation of data, and the instant success of the iPad seems to be proving them right, at least for now.

Windows 8 is a far more ambitious update than Lion, but I think it's out of necessity. Windows 8 HAS to be a big success for the company or else it will lose out once mobile devices overtake traditional PCs in the rest of the industry the same way they have for Apple already. That said, for quite some time, OS X will still be relevant, and still be effective for getting real work done.

 

[Claefer]

Well, we can also use Android as a benchmark. Even folks who are not in the market for a premium-priced device couldn't care less for your Metro UI that "everyone just loves"...

Perhaps it's a failure of marketing. People who have used the Metro UI just love it. They describe it as fresh, original, modern, and minimal. These words used to describe Apple but now they describe Microsoft.

Apple said 2011 is the year of the iPad. Fine. They can have it. 2012 will be the year of Windows 8.

 

[KPOM]

To summarize, I think this is an absolutely viable competitor and paves a very brave future that Apple should absolutely look to for inspiration. It makes content more beautiful and they have some pretty exciting ideas that are both aesthetically pleasing and very functional. Great use of gestures. Golf clap, Microsoft.. You did good.

Agreed. I no more want an Apple monopoly in the 2010s-2020s than I wanted a Microsoft monopoly in the 1990s-2000s. Microsoft is betting its future on Windows 8, and the early signs are that it will be a good operating system and the first viable competitor to the iPad. It will keep Apple honest, and ensure that they continue innovating even without Steve Jobs at the helm. That said, even the most ardent MS fan has to thank Apple for Windows 8. Without the iPad's success, Windows 8 would have been Windows 7.1 (i.e. not much new, just some basic updates).

 

[Deefuzz]

Got the preview loaded on Parallels. Kind of buggy but I see lots of potential there.

I seem to have troubles with the Live Tiles on the desktop. Can't get any of them to actually open their respective programs, I click the Tile and nothing happens. The going back and forth between 2 different desktops is a little odd, and when I toggle back to the Metro UI one all of my Live Tiles seem to disappear and it takes a lot of trial and error to get back to it.

I do see the potential here, I have always liked the MetroUI, I love where they are going with this, but it is just way to rough right now to have any fun with this build. Hope that things improve, I look forward to seeing this one later on down the road.

 

[ZipZapRap]

You need top-of-the-line specs to achieve top-of-the-line user experience.

As a lover of Microsoft products, I'll disagree with this.. case in point - Windows Phone.

Current hardware (non Mango devices) are single core 1Ghz snapdragon machines with 256mb-512mb of RAM.
No front facing cameras, with maximum installed flash memory size of 16GB (or on the Focus, anything you add in.. at a cost).

These are low end smartphone specs.. They were low when they were announced, and they're even lower now.

BUT, the user experience is second to none. I challenge Android users to name examples where the UI is as buttery smooth on such low powered hardware. And the entire UX of Windows Phone is pure class.

So they don't need high-end hardware to deliver a high-end experience.

 

[vrDrew]

The problem Microsoft has is that it has to satisfy three separate groups of people: manufacturers, developers, and customers. And what those three sets of people want is not always going to be in sync. The problem becomes more complicated when it tries (as apparently Windows 8 is trying to do) combining a PC operating system with one that works on a tablet.

Lets start off with manufacturers. First, its reasonably safe to say that virtually any halfway decent upgrade to the Windows OS is going to be good for most PC manufacturers: the steady upgrade schedule has kept PC sales growing on a predictable path for a couple of decades now.

But when it comes to tablet manufacturers, the picture isn't so clear. Most tablet makers have struggled to compete (let alone make a profit) with the iPad using an operating system (Android) that they got from Google for free. How are they going to do if a) Windows 8 for Tablet has tough hardware requirements (and presumably an expensive BOM) and b) they have to pay a license of $20-$50 to Microsoft?

Developers: A big part of the appeal of Microsoft's Build event is holding out to developers the promise that Applications they write for Windows 8 will run on Tablets is going to be a big advantage. True enough. But certainly dealing with touchscreens, gyroscopes, and proximity sensors is going to add at least some level of additional workload to the development process. Its surely going to make even the simplest Application have more lines of code.

And if the sale of Tablets running Windows 8 doesn't meet expectations fairly quickly - a lot of those developers are going to start asking themselves why bother (at least with the Tablet functionality..)

Lastly, developers are going to have to think about pricing and sale terms: If they sell you a license for a PC application, does that mean you can run a concurrent version on your Tablet? Or do you have to buy a separate "Tablet" version? What if you want to buy only the Tablet version: Are developers going to be comfortable competing in a market where the average sale price for iPad Apps is comfortably under $10?

Consumers are the big question. Again, any decent upgrade to Windows has an almost automatic massive market. But that's only on the PC side that is guaranteed. And if consumers rebel against the new touchscreen interface, or simply don't find it very helpful on their (non touch-screen) PCs - Microsoft risks alienating them. If they look at Windows 8 and say "why should I learn a new way of working my PC, one thats designed around tablets, if I'm happy with my mouse-and-keyboard?"

All in all, Microsoft has a lot of challenges ahead of them. And regardless of how "good" either the specifications or the performance of Windows 8 turns out to be, there are a lot of questions that - if Microsoft doesn't come up with the right answers - could spell real trouble.

 

[coldmack]

BUT, the user experience is second to none. I challenge Android users to name examples where the UI is as buttery smooth on such low powered hardware. And the entire UX of Windows Phone is pure class.

Original Nexus, which has pretty much the same specs as many of those WP7 device(well one or two of them have the newer gen Snapdragon cpu). At least that was the case when I played with it a while ago. I've been told the original Droid was just as smooth, but never played with that one.

 

[ZipZapRap]

Fixed it for ya.

This.

The most widely under-reported story in tech is the effect the DoJ had on Microsoft's future.

 

[Eidorian]

About 11 minutes to clean install off of my XPorter flash drive.

 

[ZipZapRap]

Original Nexus, which has pretty much the same specs as many of those WP7 device(well one or two of them have the newer gen Snapdragon cpu). At least that was the case when I played with it a while ago. I've been told the original Droid was just as smooth, but never played with that one.

Fair play, I didn't know that.. I haven't tried every Android smart phone, so perhaps I was hasty in my analogy

But the ones I HAVE tried have all lagged in some way. Hell, even some of the tablets aren't as smooth as they should be, with the hardware they run.

 

[linux2mac]

Why? Two reasons:

1) Besides the entry level Mac mini, Apple only makes PCs that start at $1K USD and above (sometimes referred to as "premium computers"). Below that mark is pretty much a fool's game, as Microsoft designed it so OEMs would slit each others throat in a race to the bottom. Just ask HP who is abandoning the business. Pretty bad when you're averaging the same profit per device that your OS provider is making (~$50). When people do decide to go above the $1K mark the trend flips, and then people choose Apple more than 9 out of 10 times.

2) Building on reason 1 above, the average PC is usually cheaper. Not because of some perceived "Apple Tax," but because Apple knows what happens when you approach your product like it's just another commodity. The vast majority of people just need an entry-level PC and don't care about the overall experience or specs, so they usually go as cheap as possible. After all, do you really need a premium machine to do what the majority of office drones do (email, surf the web, create a spreadsheet, or type up a document)?

Exactly. Premium is not for everyone.

 

[jaw04005]

Finally got it going in VirtualBox. There's a lot of potential here. The Metro UI is very neat and could really be useful once Microsoft adds in all the missing applications (photos, mail, Facebook, XBOX Live, etc).

I'm assuming those are missing.

I'm not sure about the Desktop UI. I almost wish they would disable it on home installations by default. Although removing the start menu and forcing you to use the Metro UI to launch applications is one way to phase out the old GUI.

Windows 8 is going to be really interesting. For a company that's always been wrapped up in maintaining compatibility, the new Metro UI is a paradigm shift and how it's forced on you is unexpected. It makes Apple's iOS springboard look dated (especially on the iPad where the extra screen real estate is not even used).

Can't wait to get a cheap tablet running this thing.

 

[Claefer]

As a lover of Microsoft products, I'll disagree with this.. case in point - Windows Phone.

Current hardware (non Mango devices) are single core 1Ghz snapdragon machines with 256mb-512mb of RAM.
No front facing cameras, with maximum installed flash memory size of 16GB (or on the Focus, anything you add in.. at a cost).

These are low end smartphone specs.. They were low when they were announced, and they're even lower now.

BUT, the user experience is second to none. I challenge Android users to name examples where the UI is as buttery smooth on such low powered hardware. And the entire UX of Windows Phone is pure class.

So they don't need high-end hardware to deliver a high-end experience.

A smartphone is a different class of product. I was primarily referring to tablets and desktops.

I can't fault companies for making their smartphones with bare specs but it's inexcusable with tablets. The iPad shouldn't even be called a tablet. No SD card slot, no USB ports, no HDMI, no ethernet port.

 

[840quadra]

Microsoft spends more money on research and development than Apple and it shows.

Source?

Look at the Windows 8 UI. Steve Jobs has been weeping since Windows unveiled Metro. It's a brilliant solution and it makes iOS looks like a Fisher Price toy. Here's why:

Icons suck. I personally believe that icons are yesterday's way of representing apps. Icons never change and that makes user experience harder. Tiles are a better solution. It's easier to navigate through different shaped tiles than fixed, proportional icons.

Fair enough. Paradigm shifts are known to happen, especially within the tech industry.

Color is also important. Metro uses clean, flat colors, while iOS uses eye candy to create artificial texture. That makes it difficult for the user to distinguish between the different areas of the UI.

Do you have any data to support the claim of this problem? This is the first I have herd that iOS was difficult to navigate due to complex colors and eye candy.

Not saying you are wrong, but I would love to read a study on this if one exists!

iOS relies heavily on visual cues, Metro relies on typography. People react quicker to text than visual cues. Metro makes use of large font and in addition to tiles it's less distracting than iOS's home screen.

Again, do you have a source for this?

If that was the case, we should contact highway departments worldwide and have them pull down all signs with symbols, and replace them with blocks of text.

If reading a block of text is quicker to understand correctly than a universal warning sign, we could save countless lives around the world.

oops I am sorry.. 'wink'

 

[elgrecomac]

I am very happy that ms is trying to up the ante

This will only benefit the consumer with choices that will drive prices down and features up. My biggest love/hate with my apple equipment is that it is a closed ecosystem. Maybe this will open things up a bit allowing some freedom in the marketplace.

 

[KingCrimson]

Source?

http://gizmodo.com/5486798/research-and-development-apple-vs-microsoft-vs-sony

Microsoft has always been a black hole with R&D spending.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Looks good.