Yes. OEMs were useful to Microsoft as long as the big money was made with software licenses. In a market where software is free and hardware manufacturers make all the profit, there will be no Windows Phone OEMs.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Microsoft Purchases Nokia's Device and Services Division to Unite Windows Phone Hardware and Software
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
HTC also makes windows phones, as do sony and samsung. It just happens that Nokia makes the BEST.
MSoft has had successes - Windows 7, XBox... and Apple has had plenty of failures too. Granted, most were from when Jobs wasn't running the show, but guess what? Jobs isn't running the show NOW, and iP5 sales have been far less than expected. Revenues are not great. Apple hasn't exactly been kicking ass and taking names lately, and their innovation has SERIOUSLY stagnated while other companies (like MS and Nokia) have been going like gangbusters.
Actually, I think Microsoft just flushed $7.2B down the toilet by bailing out a dying Finnish mobile phone company. This has lots of long term promise, but not for Microsoft.
Microsoft is a software company in need of a new direction and real future - this isn't it.
Hmmmmm, interesting forecast there, I wonder what year that will happen?
Haha, damn iOS7 keyboard
iOS and Android both have something called FOLDERS where you can group like-minded apps together, to decrease the clutter. Touch the folder, it bubbles out to show the contents. I use them to decrease the icons on the home page and to keep the number of pages I have to scroll through to, basically, one.
Your comments about your dislike for iOS on the iPhone is rather odd, though, because if you read it, the same issues you describe are exactly what I would describe your own WP screens (cluttered and having multiple pages to have to scroll through).
Not really. They also sold phones with Asha (basically, Series 40). Quite a lot of them too.
Microsoft is getting that too though.
Vertical integration? They don't make the software. They get the glass, CPUs and batteries from other manufacturers - some of the same ones used by Apple and Motorola. I would argue that Samsung took the lead in the android phone market because of good marketing and timing when other makers slowed down development. Don't get me wrong - Samsung did a good job but they don't make all the parts, nor control the Intellectual Property on what they do manufacture and they don't control the software - until they move to Tizen (which is still dependent on Android).
With Motorola - Google could favor their own handsets by getting the newest versions of Android on them 6-8 months before releasing to other manufacturers. That could give them a leg up and allow them to take market share. Google is unique in the Android space in that it controls the hardware and software side of things.
Semantics. You're arguing technicalities. As I stated earlier clear as day, all a OEM can differentiate is the camera , storage , expandable storage and of course price.
All those phone in that link are essentially the same damn phone. Just different designs. The 925,928,920 are just variants of the 920.
All those Lumia 8xx are just variants of the same 8xx.
All those Lumia 6xx are just variants of the same 6xx.
All those phones have the same chip.
All those phones have the same OS.
All those phones have the same OEM apps.
Only thing different is, camera, storage, expandable storage , and price.
Same thing with the HTC and Samsung phones.
What part are you not understanding?
Go through the specifications and note the only differences. See a trend?
Google said they're not gonna do that though. Even the Moto X didn't get the latest build. A move like that would pretty much guarantee Samsung accelerates Tizen and finds away to cut off Google licensing... and Samsung is probably the most formidable fast follower in the industry right now
Lumia Phones Are Amazing!
Anyone who has briefly used a Lumia phone know the quality of these iPhone competitors. The processor, camera, pixels per inch, and operating system surpass the iPhone. With Microsoft gaining full control of the hardware I would expect it to get even better. Apple's new operating system really needs to impress people.
Anyone who has briefly used a Lumia phone know the quality of these iPhone competitors. The processor, camera, pixels per inch, and operating system surpass the iPhone. With Microsoft gaining full control of the hardware I would expect it to get even better. Apple's new operating system really needs to impress people.
Does this mean Microsoft has decided it would prefer a high profit, low market share model similar to the one employed by Apple? Seems very un-Microsoft.
No they just monetize differently
MS = profits off software, commoditizes hardware (via OEM's)
Apple = profits off hardware, commoditizes software (AKA $1 apps)
Google = profits off ads, commoditizes hw and sw (via OEM's and giving out sw for free)
No I agree with the market, there is no short- or mid-term profit to be made for Microsoft with this acquisition. But Nokia is only a dying company because Windows Phone is an irrelevant platform. Abandoning Nokia means to abandon every hope of ever regaining any relevance for Microsoft in mobile computing. Microsoft isn't just ready yet for declaring defeat. What else doesn't make money for Microsoft? ... Bing, Skype, Surface. In five years when the next next CEO will charge off the Nokia acquisition the MSFT stock will make a short jump. And than sell itself to Google.
Unfortunately, nobody needs RIM (not iOS, not Android and not Windows Phone - that's the game at this point)...they can just go bankrupt and the little pieces people might want can be picked up. Sad for them.
Depends. I think you have jumped ahead too far. They now can design the hardware seamlessly with the software, true. But that is just one piece of the success puzzle. Execution is everything and let's be honest that's going to depend on who becomes the next CEO and their ability to transform MS before Android and iOS solidify their turf in business. Promise is there, but just that. No guarantees by far.
Don't see this happening anytime soon & if they are smart. While Samsung's good at hardware they don't have any infrastructure to offer content, cloud services ect. They have to pass that hurdle way before moving away from Android.
I think they bought Nokia's crown jewels on the cheap. I fully expected this "bailout" to be $18B. MS just bought itself a global retail organization, and a world class hardware design team for a market that is still not satisfied with apple or android.
Like I said, I still think the next couple quarters for MS will go from bad to worse (mostly due to intel not getting haswell into marketplace cheap enough, fast enough). But I see real possibilities some gorgeous enterprise tablets a year or two out (assuming Nokia already has designs there).
I re-read it - i did jump too far and it wasn't my intent (they have the potential to be...everything I said). So I agree with your post.
I guess I see the smaller acquisition as cup half full, rather than paying full for a half empty cup (which is how MS often does it!)
Last edited:
I think this is just Microsoft floundering in the water like they said in the past that they want to become a devices company (they want to be Apple) - and although they sold alot of defective xBoxes and lost alot of money before making a little with that - it'll be really hard.
For Microsoft themselves its probably a good thing - since they'd poisoned their relationships with hardware OEM's last year - without Nokia, WP would be dead at this point.
But MS's corporate culture is awful, there's a reason the division's stab each other in the back and don't work with each other and it does down to the personal level (everyone is graded on a curve, with the bottom a failing and its done before the people being evaluated have a chance to defend themselves - i.e. if you stab your coworkers in the back you'll benefit):
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/08/microsoft_ceo_steve_ballmer_retires_a_firsthand_account_of_the_company_s.html
I feel bad for the Nokia employees going there...
Yes, but hardware is how the customer interprets and perceives the platform. Those differentiators -- camera, design of the case, etc are not insignificant to a products success. It's why Google bought Motorola. It's why Apple doesn't license out iOS. As Jobs demonstrated when a company has start to end complete design control of a product it can control it's own destiny. I'm not sure why that is so hard for you to understand as it's a well accepted business concept.
----------
You can disagree all you want but until MS has an actual track record I don't see the rational to suggest its already a winner in the mobile space. It's like declaring the Yankees the 2013 World Series winners on the first day of spring training 2013.
iOS and Android both have something called FOLDERS where you can group like-minded apps together, to decrease the clutter. Touch the folder, it bubbles out to show the contents. I use them to decrease the icons on the home page and to keep the number of pages I have to scroll through to, basically, one.
Your comments about your dislike for iOS on the iPhone is rather odd, though, because if you read it, the same issues you describe are exactly what I would describe your own WP screens (cluttered and having multiple pages to have to scroll through).
iOS on a phone is cluttered because the home screen is also the app drawer.
I rarely use apps like the eBay and Amazon so they don't need to be on my home screen. Android also has this important feature. Folders are near useless because they also increase the time to reach an app, although they are useful if you have too many apps and want to avoid creating new home screens.
In my opinion what makes the WP8 homescreen the most functional out of the three is that you can have different sized tiles. I use Spotify very frequently, so its nice to have a big bright icon right where my thumb is when I wake up my phone.
Continuous scrolling is also better than having multiple individual home screens or spaces. Its much more natural to just scroll down (I'm sure scrolling to the side would work just as well) to reach apps, its like I am navigating through a website. A quick swipe to the left takes me to my app drawer which is organized alphabetically with quick links to each letter (an up coming update will bring an option to organize apps by frequency).
On the iPad I don't find any of these things to be a problem because you have a lot more screen real state. However on a 3.5 or 4 inch screen you just have too many icons on too little room.
Nokia at this point is too unstable and its future too uncertain. Microsoft could not gain if Nokia goes under. Maybe one reason why Microsoft bought its device division.
You just confirmed MS is willing to under price to get ahead (and they had 2 competitors, not just 1)
To be sure, Sony also under priced its PS2 to build the foundation.
MS has the resources to build a compelling ecosystem (which partly exists with .Net), and within 12 months the potential to get someone with the vision to do it.
Agreed - Google says they will do this now. However, will that hold in the future if competitive pressure dictates? I don't think so. Google is preparing for Samsung to move to Tizen and are positioning themselves for it.
There is a risk going to Timzen because Google controls the patents for a lot of the underlying patents and licensing. Samsung would have to be sure that their current market would move to Tizen as opposed to what they know in Google Android. Google has purchased a smart watch maker and other hardware companies - they do say one thing - but their actions show they are preparing for the inevitable. In the end - Samsung will have to make the case that Tizen is as good or better than Google Android - just being a hardware manufacturer is a commodity play. Being integrated (hardware/software and services (cloud)) is the high value option.
I remember when I went to a Microsoft seminar about Communicator (what's communicator? Exactly...) a few years ago. The presenter kept re-iterating the mantra that Microsoft is not in the hardware business, we leave that to our partners.
Yeah right.
Well now they certainly are!
I wish someone could answer one question for me.
If a directionless company buys another directionless company, does that give it direction? It looks to me like Microsoft is chasing Apple's Idevices, badly. I was at Best Buy last weekend, it was hilarious to see the gigantic Microsoft and Samsung kiosks. Together they took up almost a 5th of the store.
Yet there were a dozen people crammed into the Apple section and maybe 4 people in the whole Microsoft section, nobody in the Samsung area.
If Ballmer is listening...quit trying to be the hippest computer company. You will never be hipper than Apple, and that isn't even Apple's strength.
Microsoft needs to return to it's roots and come out with a Windows 9 that is just smart, fast and lean. No hipster affectations. Computers dont wear pants so skinny jeans do not apply.
Yeah right.
Well now they certainly are!
I wish someone could answer one question for me.
If a directionless company buys another directionless company, does that give it direction? It looks to me like Microsoft is chasing Apple's Idevices, badly. I was at Best Buy last weekend, it was hilarious to see the gigantic Microsoft and Samsung kiosks. Together they took up almost a 5th of the store.
Yet there were a dozen people crammed into the Apple section and maybe 4 people in the whole Microsoft section, nobody in the Samsung area.
If Ballmer is listening...quit trying to be the hippest computer company. You will never be hipper than Apple, and that isn't even Apple's strength.
Microsoft needs to return to it's roots and come out with a Windows 9 that is just smart, fast and lean. No hipster affectations. Computers dont wear pants so skinny jeans do not apply.
Then what is their future? I'm honestly curious what you think, not trying to be sarcastic.
Microsoft is king of the enterprise, and we are moving towards a more mobile work environment. I'm not talking 'mobile' in the sense of being able to work anywhere where there's an internet connection, that's already huge. I'm thinking your phone/tablet will be your office. Skype, Yammer, now mobile devices through Nokia (look at the Nokia tablet running RT that's coming out). They are absolutely headed in the right direction.
Timing, on the other hand, they could've done this a long time ago.