Microsoft Releases Office 2008 12.1.3 and Office 2004 11.5.2 Updates

[nadyne]

Thing is, this shouldn't prevent the update from being applied. A lot of us want the ability to clear out the language files we dont need or use.

One of our senior developers has a blog post that walks through all of the technical reasons why these impact our ability to update the software. It's called Leave those bits alone!. Read the comments thread, too -- Schwieb answers several questions in there.

If you want to save space, you should use the custom installation. For example, I know that I'm not going to need the proofing tools for other languages, so I don't install those. You can also use the custom installation to avoid installing applications that you won't use (for example, I see that Achiever mentioned not using Messenger, so do a custom install so that you don't install it).

nadyne, if the Space hopping issue is a "known issue", why is it not fixed?

Knowing that there's an issue doesn't mean that we can fix the issue. This issue isn't entirely in our hands. We've been working closely with Apple to get it fixed.

also Nadyne, why is it that '08 boots so painfully slow?

We've made a pile of performance improvements, specifically on boot time. If you've got a lot of fonts installed, you might find some slowdown associated with that. The Entourage MVPs have some information about font issues; check out the list of troubleshooting steps at the bottom of the page that's dedicated to speeding up Word to see if that helps you at all.

My auto update is not finding it

We've got lots of servers. Our web servers go live with the update first. It takes some time for the update to propagate out to our auto-update servers -- it's usually less than 24 hours, but sometimes it takes longer (sorry, no idea why -- I'm on the technical team, I have nothing to do with our server farms). Downloading the update manually isn't different from letting the auto-updater do its thing.

Does anybody know if a combo update including all the office updates is available? Each time I install Office 2008 on a new/reformated machine, I have to go through each update individually (.1,.2,.3), which takes about half an hour all up :-(

If you're doing a fresh install off of the CD, you need to install 12.1, then 12.1.1, 12.1.2, and 12.1.3. We'll have a combo updater available on a future update. It's just a question of balancing needs -- folks who keep up with their updates don't want to re-download bits that they've already got, folks who are installing fresh don't want to have to download a bunch of updates.

Anyone besides me not able to send calendar invites or respond to calendar invitations via exchange after this update?

Which version of Exchange are you on? Have you tried restarting Entourage?

Regards,
Nadyne.

 

[USCtrojan08]

well, looks like NONE of the problems were fixed. Go freakin' figure.
I swear, is this a conspiracy to sell more copies of Office 2007 for Windows (and thus PC's)? Because '07 is an outstanding set of applications, but '08 IS THE LARGEST STINKING PILE OF CRAP THAT IS ON MY SYSTEM. I honestly don't know why I haven't re-installed '04...

nadyne, if the Space hopping issue is a "known issue", why is it not fixed? Why is this one Microsoft application the ONLY APPLICATION IN EXISTENCE for Mac OS X that has this issue? Even freeware pieces of junk written in a basement know to stay in one space. Why is it that a multi-BILLION dollar corporation can't write a piece of software that runs halfway decently?

All I have to say is - thank god I didn't pay a cent for '08. Would have been my worst investment ever.
On a completely unrelated note rolleyes - anyone know if this breaks some of the bit-torrent-ed serials that have been floating around?
[edit] Installed and still working. No updater loop (thank god)[/edit]

I'm downloading the update right now. Hopefully my "borrowed" version will still work.

EDIT: Cool, my "I'll just download now and pay latter" version is still working. YAY!!!

 

[monjones]

I just installed it and it's made a big improvement. Before, the start up times were very slow. The previous updates did nothing to help me, although apparently they did for others. But this one makes it works great. It's odd that there is so much inconsistency between users...

 

[illegallydead]

One of our senior developers has a blog post that walks through all of the technical reasons why these impact our ability to update the software. It's called Leave those bits alone!. Read the comments thread, too -- Schwieb answers several questions in there.

If you want to save space, you should use the custom installation. For example, I know that I'm not going to need the proofing tools for other languages, so I don't install those. You can also use the custom installation to avoid installing applications that you won't use (for example, I see that Achiever mentioned not using Messenger, so do a custom install so that you don't install it).



Knowing that there's an issue doesn't mean that we can fix the issue. This issue isn't entirely in our hands. We've been working closely with Apple to get it fixed.



We've made a pile of performance improvements, specifically on boot time. If you've got a lot of fonts installed, you might find some slowdown associated with that. The Entourage MVPs have some information about font issues; check out the list of troubleshooting steps at the bottom of the page that's dedicated to speeding up Word to see if that helps you at all.



We've got lots of servers. Our web servers go live with the update first. It takes some time for the update to propagate out to our auto-update servers -- it's usually less than 24 hours, but sometimes it takes longer (sorry, no idea why -- I'm on the technical team, I have nothing to do with our server farms). Downloading the update manually isn't different from letting the auto-updater do its thing.



If you're doing a fresh install off of the CD, you need to install 12.1, then 12.1.1, 12.1.2, and 12.1.3. We'll have a combo updater available on a future update. It's just a question of balancing needs -- folks who keep up with their updates don't want to re-download bits that they've already got, folks who are installing fresh don't want to have to download a bunch of updates.



Which version of Exchange are you on? Have you tried restarting Entourage?

Regards,
Nadyne.

I understand that knowing about it doesn't mean it is fixed, my point was that Office '08 is the ONLY program that I know of or use that has this space-hopping issue. More or less what I am saying is that Micro$oft sucks for being a multi-billion dollar corporation that rushes to put out a software like Office '08 that has all these issues like space-hopping and slow booting (which I will take a look at resolving on my end) while at the same time crippling Excel by dropping VBA support.
I hope that you can understand my frustration.

 

[wetrix]

If you're doing a fresh install off of the CD, you need to install 12.1, then 12.1.1, 12.1.2, and 12.1.3. We'll have a combo updater available on a future update. It's just a question of balancing needs -- folks who keep up with their updates don't want to re-download bits that they've already got, folks who are installing fresh don't want to have to download a bunch of updates.

Thanks for the awesome answer. I don't think I've ever had anybody actually answer one of my questions before at macrumors. Everybody is always too busy complaining. Of course, I'm one of those complainers.

 

[econoline06]

Does this update break the product to where it keeps putting you back in that product improvement program like the last update??? Gee I sure hope so by golly I love Microsoft updates!!!!!!

 

[SFStateStudent]

Well, I started at about 7pm tonight uninstalling my Office Mac 2008 on both my MBA and my Mac Pro at the same time and then reinstalling it, then installing the updates and 3 1/2 hours later, I have everything onboard with Office Mac 2008. Apparently, MS Office has not been autoupdating on a weekly basis and I was forced to uninstall and reinstall MS Office Mac 2008, then update the updates. I feel like I've been hit by a dump truck, and then a steamroller...

 

[illegallydead]

BTW nadyne, just wanted to give you props for having the courage to actually jump in the ring here with a group of perhaps some of the biggest Microsoft haters on the net and actually trying to solve some problems.

That is admittedly better than 's approach of denying the existance of a problem until they have a fix already in Software Update. (though dosn't seem to have as many problems software wise... )

 

[illegallydead]

Well, I started at about 7pm tonight uninstalling my Office Mac 2008 on both my MBA and my Mac Pro at the same time and then reinstalling it, then installing the updates and 3 1/2 hours later, I have everything onboard with Office Mac 2008. Apparently, MS Office has not been autoupdating on a weekly basis and I was forced to uninstall and reinstall MS Office Mac 2008, then update the updates. I feel like I've been hit by a dump truck, and then a steamroller...

Lol ain't it sad that you have to go through all that **** to install an update that dosn't really seem to fix much?
[edit] haha I seem to have been censored I guess I need to watch my mouth. There might be young fanboys or microsoft haters here [/edit]

 

[SFStateStudent]

Lol ain't it sad that you have to go through all that **** to install an update that dosn't really seem to fix much?
[edit] haha I seem to have been censored I guess I need to watch my mouth. There might be young fanboys or microsoft haters here [/edit]

I totally hear ya' on the update that doesn't do much. I knew something was seriously wrong when I kept getting the attached prompt. I think I have a few bald patches from pulling my hair out. This prompt totally did nothing for me, except confuse me even more...

 

[nadyne]

I totally hear ya' on the update that doesn't do much. I knew something was seriously wrong when I kept getting the attached prompt. I think I have a few bald patches from pulling my hair out. This prompt totally did nothing for me, except confuse me even more...

Office has a shared database. The primary user of that database is Entourage, but the other apps use it for some shared functionality.

Your database has somehow gotten damaged. To fix it, first close all of your Office apps (including Messenger). In the Finder, go into the Microsoft Office 2008 folder, then into the Office folder in there. Open up the app named Microsoft Database Utility. You'll get a window that asks you which database you want to use; you likely only have one in there. Click the radio button next to "Rebuild database" and let it do its thing. If you don't use Entourage, this shouldn't take too long -- maybe a couple of minutes. Once it's done, your problem should be fixed.

Regards,
Nadyne.

 

[TheNorthWaves]

Office has a shared database. The primary user of that database is Entourage, but the other apps use it for some shared functionality.

Your database has somehow gotten damaged. To fix it, first close all of your Office apps (including Messenger). In the Finder, go into the Microsoft Office 2008 folder, then into the Office folder in there. Open up the app named Microsoft Database Utility. You'll get a window that asks you which database you want to use; you likely only have one in there. Click the radio button next to "Rebuild database" and let it do its thing. If you don't use Entourage, this shouldn't take too long -- maybe a couple of minutes. Once it's done, your problem should be fixed.

Regards,
Nadyne.

We MR people tend to get a little cynical and complainy - I am certainly no exception (and when you pay a lot of money for something, you have a right to complain). However, I appreciate that someone from MS MacBU is not only hanging around on MR but also responding. Trying to get support from MS is like trying to get support from a dead body, so it's nice to have someone answering the questions - even if they aren't the answers we want to hear right now.

And PS - even with the known issues I encounter on the mac, I would never go back to Vista (or windows in general) ever again.

 

[justmandel]

Which MS Office is best . . .

Just bought a new MBP and trying to decide between MS Office 2004 or 2008. I only use Word, Excel and occasionally Powerpoint. In Excel, I do not use VBA or macros, but definitely need XIRR and Solver to work (seems like the XIRR problems are now fixed and I can download Solver from Frontline). A few questions:

1. Which version should I go with?

2. Am I better off doing a custom install and leaving out Entourage and Messenger if I don't use them? (Nadyne?)

3. What is the purpose of the new 2008 file formats, and can I change the default so it always saves in the old file format?

Thanks for the help!

 

[nadyne]

1. Which version should I go with?

2. Am I better off doing a custom install and leaving out Entourage and Messenger if I don't use them? (Nadyne?)

3. What is the purpose of the new 2008 file formats, and can I change the default so it always saves in the old file format?

1. I think that Office 2008 will meet your needs, but I'm honestly not a power user of Excel (for example, I've never used Solver myself), so I'm sure someone else will weigh in there.

2. If you're not going to use them, and if you're worried about disk space, I say do a custom install. Personally, I always do a custom install on every app (not just Office) so that I can see what's being installed and whether I really want all of it. In Office, for example, I never install the proofing tools for any language other than English because I know that they're of no use to me. For me, it's not really about disk space (my MBP has a 250-GB hard drive, and I'm nowhere near filling it), it's just about not having stuff around that I'm not going to use. But YMMV, so do what's best for you.

3. The new file formats (which you can tell because they end in x, such as docx or xlsx) are XML-based file formats. Since they're XML, anyone can write a parser to read and do things with those files. You might not care about that now, but it does mean that you're less likely to run into the problem in the future where you've got ancient files that you can't open anymore. (I had someone ask me at MWSF a couple of years ago how to open his PowerPoint v1 files!) Also, in general, the file sizes are smaller. But if you don't want to save in them, you can set a preference in the 2008 apps to save in another format, including the old binary (.doc, .xls, etc) formats.

Regards,
Nadyne.

 

[thomahawk]

i dont understand why people complain so much
i am content with MS Office 08 and the only grunt i have with it is the laggy boot times and stuff but i mean come on guys, patience?
the spaces issue, yes it can be fixed we just have to wait patiently for it. you cant always demand something to be fixed Right Now! although microsoft should have done it already knowing how long since they released MS Office 08

but i would say its just a tool for you to do your work on it. if you dont like MS office 08 then just uninstall it and go use iworks

 

[justmandel]

Thanks Nadyne. Seems like the majority of users actively "hate" 2008 (although granted the update hasn't been out too long). I just made the switch from PC to Mac because I couldn't stand MS products crashing all the time. Is there any reason not to just buy 2004? It doesn't seem like people complain about that version nearly as much. I will not be saving in the .docx etc. format anyway, and I'm a pretty basic user (although I do rely heavily on Excel for cash flow analysis).

If I do go with 2004, do I need to download each upgrade sequentially?

 

[Achiever]

If you want to save space, you should use the custom installation. For example, I know that I'm not going to need the proofing tools for other languages, so I don't install those. You can also use the custom installation to avoid installing applications that you won't use (for example, I see that Achiever mentioned not using Messenger, so do a custom install so that you don't install it).

Nadyne,

I did not do a custom install (and leave out unnecessary apps) as I had read other posters complaining that their updates wouldn't install or install correctly if they did not have their complete Office Suite in place on their HDs. In fairness, I don't know that they did custom installs and left off apps they didn't need vs. the XSlimmer or other type of post-install file remover, but the inability to download and install updated spooked me enough to simply waste the space on my HD with unused apps.

If I am understanding you correctly, though, if I custom install only the apps I need, the periodic updates should still install for me - related only to the apps I have installed, of course, and I will not (or at least should not) encounter the problems exhibited by users who have used XSlimmer, etc.? Thanks.

 

[benthewraith]

Thanks Nadyne. Seems like the majority of users actively "hate" 2008 (although granted the update hasn't been out too long). I just made the switch from PC to Mac because I couldn't stand MS products crashing all the time. Is there any reason not to just buy 2004? It doesn't seem like people complain about that version nearly as much. I will not be saving in the .docx etc. format anyway, and I'm a pretty basic user (although I do rely heavily on Excel for cash flow analysis).

If I do go with 2004, do I need to download each upgrade sequentially?

There should be a combo update. Keep in mind that the people posting complaints in this thread are a small portion of the people who downloaded the patch flawlessly. Naturally, with any software, you're going to have problems somewhere. Its better to get Office 2008 and run natively, rather than get Office 2004. That is unless you need Visual Basic, in which case, 2004 is your only option.

 

[Chappers]

I haven't updated yet as I'm getting bored with MS Office. I like its features etc but big downloads to update are hitting my download allowance - time to upgrade.

I recently downloaded OpenOffice 3 which at 136Mb is smaller that this update but you get more toys to play with. To think I only downloaded it because my wife has to use it in her new job and had a few questions for me.

I'm glad I got a great discount on MS Office otherwise I'd be feeling quite sick right now.

I was surprised with how good OpenOffice is - I don't bother opening MS office now unless its by accident. Sad really.

 

[nadyne]

Is there any reason not to just buy 2004? It doesn't seem like people complain about that version nearly as much. I will not be saving in the .docx etc. format anyway, and I'm a pretty basic user (although I do rely heavily on Excel for cash flow analysis).
If I do go with 2004, do I need to download each upgrade sequentially?

If you're a heavy Excel user, and if you're not using VBA, there are lots of improvements in there. For example, Excel 2008 now has support for a million rows and 16 thousand columns.

If you do decide to go with Office 2004, you'll need to download 11.5.0, then 11.5.1 and 11.5.2.

If I am understanding you correctly, though, if I custom install only the apps I need, the periodic updates should still install for me - related only to the apps I have installed, of course, and I will not (or at least should not) encounter the problems exhibited by users who have used XSlimmer, etc.?

Yes, that's correct. If you do a custom install, you shouldn't have any problems with the updaters.

Regards,
Nadyne.

 

[budfoot]

Anyone besides me not able to send calendar invites or respond to calendar invitations via exchange after this update?

Nope. Happening to me too.

"Unexpected Data was encountered"

Awesome feature.

 

[MacForMeOneDay]

First Kernel Panic Ever

I just tried to download/install this for Office 2004.
In the process of installing I got my first kernel panic. (I've had my iMac since 12/2007)

Nice! Oh well, I only use MS Office for when OpenOffice 3.0 doesn't work perfectly on a ppt file.

 

[medavis824]

But what's the solution?

Okay, I have read all the posts in this thread and I am also grateful that someone from Microsoft has offered explanations and help but I still need to know what the solution to the failed update problem is.

Yes, I did use monolingual to remove language files. But what is the proper solution or fix? Do I go back to my original Office 2008 disk and reinstall everything and do all the subsequent updates? Or is there a quicker or better solution?

Thanks,

MD

 

[nadyne]

Nope. Happening to me too.
"Unexpected Data was encountered"

We have discovered a problem in certain Exchange 2003 environments, and we're trying to figure out where the issue is originating and get a fix out. In the interim, there are two posts on the Entourage MVP blog that you might find helpful -- there's a couple of potential workarounds in there:
http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/10/update_on_1213_problems.html
http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/10/update_on_1213_problems_part_2.html

Please post in the comments threads on those blog posts to let others know if they've worked for you. That will help others with this issue, as well as help us at Microsoft narrow down what's going on.

Yes, I did use monolingual to remove language files. But what is the proper solution or fix? Do I go back to my original Office 2008 disk and reinstall everything and do all the subsequent updates? Or is there a quicker or better solution?

Yes, you do need to uninstall Office 2008, then reinstall it and apply the updates (first 12.1.0, then 12.1.1, then 12.1.2, and finally 12.1.3). When you reinstall, make sure that you do a custom install so that you only install the bits that you need.

Regards,
Nadyne.

 

[majordude]

We have discovered a problem in certain Exchange 2003 environments, and we're trying to figure out where the issue is originating and get a fix out.

Is this ENTIRE THREAD not a "Hello, I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" ad?!

You guys are Exchange! Sheesh!

Yes, you do need to uninstall Office 2008, then reinstall it and apply the updates (first 12.1.0, then 12.1.1, then 12.1.2, and finally 12.1.3).

And you haven't slipstreamed all this into a single update... why? A 13-year-old Russian kid could do that for you over lunch. Try rentacoder.com.

I have no sympathy for the devil.