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anecdotal evidence?

This isn't anecdotal evidence. It's what I have seen with MY eyes. Look at the Safari shortcuts bar on an MB. Now tilt the screen back an inch. BOOM - your shotcuts vanish into thin-crap-viewing-angle-air

The pitiful quality of displays on MB's is well known and well documented. For a >£1100 laptop - customers shouldn't just expect better, they should be demanding it.

But for Steve - Mac fans will roll over and scream 'MORE'.
 
I think Macs are too expensive

Every few years it seems to me that Mac machines get seriously out of kilter pricewise from PCs. This is another such time. The price of very good PC machines has over the last year or so really fallen dramatically, yet Mac machines haven't. That won't convince me to change to a PC, I don't like Windows, and I have used Macs since 1993, but for students in particular, and other would-be purchasers of Macs the difference in price is now hard to justify, whatever the perceived benefits of Mac OS X and the free software. The proof of this will be in sales figures if Mac sales decline as a proportion of total computer sales. It might also be interesting to garner some anecdotal opinions from retailers who sell Macs and PCs as to how much price is affecting purchasing decisions. Apple are going to have to look seriously at their margins and how to keep a foothold in the lower end of the market, this will only be exacerbated by the present economic crisis. It's all very well having hugely high share prices and returning fat dividends, but sometimes shareholders have to pitch in by accepting lower returns, for the long-term survival of the company.
 
This isn't anecdotal evidence. It's what I have seen with MY eyes. Look at the Safari shortcuts bar on an MB. Now tilt the screen back an inch. BOOM - your shotcuts vanish into thin-crap-viewing-angle-air

The pitiful quality of displays on MB's is well known and well documented. For a >£1100 laptop - customers shouldn't just expect better, they should be demanding it.

But for Steve - Mac fans will roll over and scream 'MORE'.

Here, pick one:

In science, anecdotal evidence has been defined as:

* "information that is not based on facts or careful study"[2]
* "non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts"[3]
* "reports or observations of usually unscientific observers"[4]
* "casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis"[5]
* "information passed along by word-of-mouth but not documented scientifically"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

I think I'll keep this page bookmarked, because something tells me I'll need it again on this forum.
 
Let them buy these cheap PC running Wincrap. It's the best advertising Apple can get.

Sooner or later all of this will be reflected by the returns, frustration and even more hatred for Microsoft.

People are moving away from Microsoft because because the quality is 3rd rate crap. So if you want to buy cheap crap then be my guest.
 
Man. I am really running the risk of sounding like a mac zealot here. but. here goes.

they don't use the trackpad at their desk because they don't have anything close to the new trackpad on the mac. i always hated the idea of owning a laptop because i could never stand using a trackpad. I still hate using the trackpad to move the cursor...but everything else it does makes up for that now-small annoyance.

the trackpad is the number one reason, in my opinion, to own the new macbook. rather than having the trackpad be a makeshift substitute for a mouse, it makes the mouse unnecessary. anytime i use a desktop, my hand instinctively moves to the center to use gestures, and it's almost frustrating now to use the arrow buttons to navigate forward and back on webpages.

it seems like a small deal. but when you use it. it's irreplaceable.

and i'm done.

Well, like I said, I have a UniBody MacBook.

The new trackpad just does not compare to a mouse. Not at all. There is no comparison. Let's list the reasons:

Scrolling: a good scroll wheel gets you where you want to be on the page faster than the two finger scrolling.

Cursor movement: With a mouse, cursor movement is more precise and faster. If you play any type of games at all (and let's not forget that the PC gaming market is bigger than the Mac market as a whole), the touchpad is completely out of the question. It's not accurate enough and its too slow. It also requires you to lift and reposition your finger far more often than you have to reposition the mouse.

Comfort: a mouse is much easier to manipulate than constant twitchy finger movements.

There are other things too. Let's look at photo manipulation real quick. Let's say I need to flip a picture. It's MUCH faster to click rotate a couple of times than it is to do the entire gesture movement a couple of times. Thats assuming the touchpad even picks up the movement accurately and you don't have to repeat yourself a number of times.

Zooming in on pictures. With the touchpad I have to do multiple pinching motions to get the size I want. With a mouse I can just use the wheel and accurately get what I want with one motion.

Honestly, the multi-touch glass touchpad is extremely overrated. The gestures get old quite quick when you realize they're more of a gimmick than actually useful and that a proper mouse would get things done faster.

So as it stands, the touchpad is just a portable alternative to a proper non-Apple made mouse. It is in no way shape or form a replacement for a mouse. When at a desk, the keyboard and touchpad on the MacBooks is in not even close to being in the same league as a decent Logitech keyboard and mouse. Not even close. Thanks to Apple switching to the chiclet style keyboard for all keyboards, none of their keyboards are even comparable to those included on HP's notebooks or those from Logitech or Microsoft you can buy yourself. As it stands now, Apple makes the absolutely worst functioning but best looking keyboards on the market. Sort of like their computers. Best looking but poorly functioning compared to the competition.
 
Let them buy these cheap PC running Wincrap. It's the best advertising Apple can get.

Sooner or later all of this will be reflected by the returns, frustration and even more hatred for Microsoft.

People are moving away from Microsoft because because the quality is 3rd rate crap. So if you want to buy cheap crap then be my guest.

People are moving away from Microsoft?

Is that why more than 10x as many people are using Vista right now as there are Mac users total?
 
The price of very good PC machines has over the last year or so really fallen dramatically, yet Mac machines haven't.

What do you think the profit is on a $500 laptop after Microsoft and the retailer take their cut? And after you pay the tech support costs that Windows demands? Yeah, the profit is next to nothing. Why should Apple try to compete in a dead-end business like that? Let the HPs and Dells of the world cut their own throats fighting for a few bucks per machine. It's not sustainable and it's not good business.

Apple has no need or desire to play that game.

The day will come when Dell and HP will have to abandon their efforts in the zero-margin low-end consumer computing market. Wait and see.
 
Let them buy these cheap PC running Wincrap. It's the best advertising Apple can get.

Sooner or later all of this will be reflected by the returns, frustration and even more hatred for Microsoft.

People are moving away from Microsoft because because the quality is 3rd rate crap. So if you want to buy cheap crap then be my guest.

sorry but i actaully want quality and reliability in my machine

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/535/1051535/apple-reliable-cheap-chinese-computers

apple doesnt meet that requirement, my Asus based computers are far more rock solid that apple (especially the first gen intel macs that had a horrible failure rate with the mainboards)

Vista has been stable on my laptop for the last year ive been using it, i havent had a compatibility issue with the software ive been running, VMWare Ace, Office apps, Citrix, VPN, etc. so that FUD about x64 not working with anything is a load of crap.
 
Apple has no need or desire to play that game.

You've got to admire Apple! As the guy in the ad says we do indeed pay for the logo...and Apple has even created a section of the public that actually think that's good!?

I'm 100% positive that Dell and HP are making profit on their units

Don't get me wrong, I love my Mac. But the bottom line is that they are over priced. That guy picked up a nice laptop well within his budget. Apple's been poking fun at MS for quite some time now and if MS want to poke back at the pricing of Apple's laptops, then I say go for it!

I happen to think these ads are quite well done, certainly a better concept than hiring an un-funny comedian in to promote their product. They are not targetted at Mac users, rather at your average consumer looking for new and affordable system.
 
Every few years it seems to me that Mac machines get seriously out of kilter pricewise from PCs. This is another such time. The price of very good PC machines has over the last year or so really fallen dramatically, yet Mac machines haven't. That won't convince me to change to a PC, I don't like Windows, and I have used Macs since 1993, but for students in particular, and other would-be purchasers of Macs the difference in price is now hard to justify, whatever the perceived benefits of Mac OS X and the free software. The proof of this will be in sales figures if Mac sales decline as a proportion of total computer sales. It might also be interesting to garner some anecdotal opinions from retailers who sell Macs and PCs as to how much price is affecting purchasing decisions. Apple are going to have to look seriously at their margins and how to keep a foothold in the lower end of the market, this will only be exacerbated by the present economic crisis. It's all very well having hugely high share prices and returning fat dividends, but sometimes shareholders have to pitch in by accepting lower returns, for the long-term survival of the company.

Another Apple is doomed post, how many of these have we heard throughout the years.
 
People are moving away from Microsoft?

Is that why more than 10x as many people are using Vista right now as there are Mac users total?

Most people don't have a choice, the majority of the computers they buy come with Vista.
 
They certaintly learned from the number one mistake the first commercial made: Lauren hit the Apple store FIRST! That clearly indicated she wanted a mac first.

in this ad the guy went to the macs in the middle like more in a passing by way.

Just my opinion on the ads.

(Oh and for all the fighters out there(either side): Take it easyyyy;)
 
sorry but i actaully want quality and reliability in my machine

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/535/1051535/apple-reliable-cheap-chinese-computers

apple doesnt meet that requirement, my Asus based computers are far more rock solid that apple (especially the first gen intel macs that had a horrible failure rate with the mainboards)

Vista has been stable on my laptop for the last year ive been using it, i havent had a compatibility issue with the software ive been running, VMWare Ace, Office apps, Citrix, VPN, etc. so that FUD about x64 not working with anything is a load of crap.
For every study out there like that, there are others with Apple on top plus they have the industry's highest satisfaction rates.
 
Well, like I said, I have a UniBody MacBook.

The new trackpad just does not compare to a mouse. Not at all. There is no comparison. Let's list the reasons:

Scrolling: a good scroll wheel gets you where you want to be on the page faster than the two finger scrolling.

Cursor movement: With a mouse, cursor movement is more precise and faster. If you play any type of games at all (and let's not forget that the PC gaming market is bigger than the Mac market as a whole), the touchpad is completely out of the question. It's not accurate enough and its too slow. It also requires you to lift and reposition your finger far more often than you have to reposition the mouse.

Comfort: a mouse is much easier to manipulate than constant twitchy finger movements.

There are other things too. Let's look at photo manipulation real quick. Let's say I need to flip a picture. It's MUCH faster to click rotate a couple of times than it is to do the entire gesture movement a couple of times. Thats assuming the touchpad even picks up the movement accurately and you don't have to repeat yourself a number of times.

Zooming in on pictures. With the touchpad I have to do multiple pinching motions to get the size I want. With a mouse I can just use the wheel and accurately get what I want with one motion.

Honestly, the multi-touch glass touchpad is extremely overrated. The gestures get old quite quick when you realize they're more of a gimmick than actually useful and that a proper mouse would get things done faster.

So as it stands, the touchpad is just a portable alternative to a proper non-Apple made mouse. It is in no way shape or form a replacement for a mouse. When at a desk, the keyboard and touchpad on the MacBooks is in not even close to being in the same league as a decent Logitech keyboard and mouse. Not even close. Thanks to Apple switching to the chiclet style keyboard for all keyboards, none of their keyboards are even comparable to those included on HP's notebooks or those from Logitech or Microsoft you can buy yourself. As it stands now, Apple makes the absolutely worst functioning but best looking keyboards on the market. Sort of like their computers. Best looking but poorly functioning compared to the competition.

I can appreciate that you came to a different conclusion about the trackpad, although I don't quite understand it.

As for the scrolling, the speed is adjustable under the preferences>trackpad panel. if you simply don't like two finger scrolling, that's probably just a matter of preference, but the speed is easily adjusted to be made comparable or better than a scroll wheel.

For Cursor movement, I already agreed that cursor movement is better with a mouse. I just feel the other features outweighed this drawback, although perhaps not for gaming.

Comfort is pretty subjective. I have no problem with comfort.

For photo manipulation, i find it faster to use a gesture than to cursor to the button to zoom. not a big difference. but it's the same thing as navigating webpages. some people might find it faster to cursor up to the button, but i find it the exact opposite.

For zooming, the wheel would be convenient unless you wanted to scroll instead of zoom. i'm sure there's a workaround for that, but i do just fine with the pinching. Rarely am i working with a photo that i need more than two or three gestures to zoom, but i'm not a big time photo editor. and if i were, i would probably have a mouse attached while i'm doing serious work.

Perhaps I went too far by calling the mouse unnecessary. What I was trying to say is that this trackpad does more things that a normal trackpad does, and as a result, there are plenty of instances where I can see people using the trackpad at a desk. There's still some places where a mouse is more useful, but still. it's leaps and bounds better. and like i said, often when i'm at a desktop, i feel like i should be able to make gestures...they've ingrained themselves to me. and even when i have a bt mouse connected, my hand ends up on the trackpad more often than not.

I would imagine that more macbook owners would feel the same way. there's just no poll to prove it.
 
You've got to admire Apple! As the guy in the ad says we do indeed pay for the logo...and Apple has even created a section of the public that actually think that's good!?

I'm 100% positive that Dell and HP are making profit on their units

Don't get me wrong, I love my Mac. But the bottom line is that they are over priced. That guy picked up a nice laptop well within his budget. Apple's been poking fun at MS for quite some time now and if MS want to poke back at the pricing of Apple's laptops, then I say go for it!

I happen to think these ads are quite well done, certainly a better concept than hiring an un-funny comedian in to promote their product. They are not targetted at Mac users, rather at your average consumer looking for new and affordable system.

Paying for a logo eh, when people buy Windows, are they not paying for a logo, what about the Dell and HP, Im sure you can find cheaper computers, are you also paying for a logo.
 
omg every 5th post (EDIT: every third) here is total crap or a paraphrase (is that how it's written in english? :p ) of something which has already been posted a hundred times before.... stupid nonsense arguments aren't funny for quiete some time now....

for BRAINS sake, stop it :) this leads to NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G .....

for the record: i miss the "head-bang-against-the-wall-smilie" it would be my fav around here.....

(yeah, atm i ain't got better things to do ;) just in case s.o. wanna bubble)
 
Paying for a logo eh, when people buy Windows, are they not paying for a logo, what about the Dell and HP, Im sure you can find cheaper computers, are you also paying for a logo.
Which is why I build my own desktops. :D

The DIY laptop arena doesn't have much of my interest, yet.
 
I find this interesting.

2/3 of the computers sold in the USA above $1,000 are Macs.

This includes all manner of PC gaming rigs, crazy-expensive laptops, and the like.

So yeah, Apple isn't catering to the sub-$1,000 crowd. They don't really care... because they don't have to. End of story.

Pre-configured retail sales. Does not include Direct BTO sales. Also, they do cater for the low end crown a lot with the exception of the popular large screen entry level notebook category, they just charge higher margins because they can. They're who the iMac is designed for.
 
You think Apple is Microsoft closest competitor? It is not, M$ are not worried about Apple a bit. Steve Ballmer has said it alright, he is more worried by Linux than Apple.

The day Microsoft mention Linux in one of their adds is the day Ubuntu will have more than a million downloads, M$ does not want that. They can mention Apple, because Apple fills a niche and not everybody likes Apple. I do like Macs, but I still prefer a PC with Linux over a Mac.

Consider what Matt Rossof said, an analyst with independent research firm directions on Microsoft:
"Macintosh computers are a threat in precisely one market — upscale consumer PCs, a small part of the overall PC market,"

"Linux is a bigger threat because it competes in more areas such as server OSs, embedded systems and increasingly on client PCs with the rise of low-cost netbooks,"

Just for people to think about.
Dont make me laugh, who the heck wastes money on a company they don't view as a compeititor.
Since when does not being the closest competitor equals not being a competitor at all? Did I say they weren't a competitor at all?

These ads aren't about stealing Mac users, they are about keeping Windows users. You don't have to say you're the best, all you have to do is to say you are a viable option to keep the masses. Since we all know, at least the people within the 'techie bubble', that Linux and even OS X are a better option than Windows.
I think you make good points, addtoqueue, but if Microsoft thought like you, they'd be in serious trouble. These commercials are ALL about bolstering the Windows brand image, and diminishing the Mac brand image. Apple is Microsoft's CLOSEST competitor in the consumer marketplace (or their "CLOSET competitor", depending on your perspective)... moreover, they're effectively their ONLY competitor. If OS/2 Warp had taken off, and OS/2 Warp was being shipped on a number of OEMs, and IBM had the type of momentum Apple had, we'd be looking at a 3 horse race... but we're not there. Lindows (now Linspire) was an attempt to really get a consumer version of Linux going. It seems like a failure to me. With no strong push behind Linux in the consumer space, Microsoft is able to combat Linux in private, with its FUD regarding patent infringement. This chilling affect continues as an ongoing struggle that Apple is affected very little by.

Here is a simple test. Go to a CONSUMER website like... Best Buy (www.bestbuy.com). Go to the search box, and type "laptop". Click the first category on the left hand side "Entertainment". In the list of laptops that appears, identify the number of different operating systems you see. Try each of the other 4 categories too (Internet & E-Mail, Ultraportable, Gaming, Small Business).

Now... try typing the following words into Best Buy's site search: "linux", then try "ubuntu". Microsoft aren't worried about Apple? Are you kidding me?

Apple is threatening their business on a number of fronts and the trend is not something that will be easy to reverse. Once a Mac users gets hooked on software like Garageband and iPhoto, and iMovie, it will be hard to find solutions as integrated (especially with each other) on Windows.

THREATS:

BUSINESS MODEL: There has been a clear issue at stake here. Apple's business model isn't necessarily Microsoft's ideal philosophy, but it is a threat, and as such, must be considered if Microsoft is to continue growing its business. Paid Content had an interesting article on this last year:
In its just-filed 10-K, Microsoft introduces a new risk factor that wasn’t there last year: “A competing vertically-integrated model, in which a single firm controls both the software and hardware elements of a product, has been successful with certain consumer products such as personal computers, mobile phones and digital music players. We also offer vertically-integrated hardware and software products; however, efforts to compete with the vertically integrated model may increase our cost of sales and reduce operating margins.” There’s obviously just one company they could be talking about there.

DEVELOPERS: Right now, Apple is using the iPhone as a developer trojan horse, ramping up the amount of developers versed in Mac OS software development. Developers (and their applications) has always been seen as a key advantage for any platform. The Amiga OS, of years ago, was put on the map primarily because of its "video toaster" solution from NewTek. The more developers Apple gains, the greater chance there is that one will leverage the platform to create something unreproducible and highly sought after by consumers.

CONSUMERS: Apple store remains a powerful force that puts other brand stores like Sony Style and the erstwhile Gateway Country to shame. The iPhone has taken the mobile world by storm, and has prompted all of the major players to begin actively incorporating features that strike at its strengths. The iPod/iPhone halo affect continues to earn the Mac platform consumer attention and credibility. The Apple store has been so successful in driving Apple product adoption and support, Microsoft has made plans for its own foray into this area (much like it has with other successful Apple strategies).

MARKETSHARE:
Apple continues to gain PC marketshare at a rate that, while inconsistent, still poses a threat to Windows dominance in the future.​

Microsoft ONLY needs to continue with sizeable profits. If they can keep an equilibrium with Apple (where Apple has a diminutive marketshare, and they continue their overall portion), they're fine. If Apple can get more NEW computer users and converts from Linux, or if Mac users ALSO install Windows... Microsoft is happy. The tough spot is, that even Mac users running bootcamp or a VM ware solution don't always "count" in their column... and worst, sometimes tire of it, and eventually go to Mac only.

That said, I will now share a series of tangentially related Steve Jobs quotes, that represent a continuing narrative about the Mac, that were in NOT true or consistent, i would not regard the platform as highly.

"My opinion is that the only two computer companies that are software-driven are Apple and NeXT, and I wonder about Apple." - Steve Jobs, Fortune Magazine, August 1991

"Unfortunately, people are not rebelling against Microsoft. They don’t know any better." - Steve Jobs, Rolling Stone Magazine, 1994

"You know, I've got a plan that could rescue Apple. I can't say any more than that it's the perfect product and the perfect strategy for Apple. But nobody there will listen to me." - Steve Jobs, Fortune, Sept 1995

"If I were running Apple, I would milk the Macintosh for all it's worth — and get busy on the next great thing. The PC wars are over. Done. Microsoft won a long time ago." - Steve Jobs, Fortune Magazine, Feb 1996

"The era of setting this up as a competition between Apple and Microsoft is over as far as I'm concerned." - Steve Jobs, MacWorld 1997

"Nobody has tried to swallow us since I've been here. I think they are afraid how we would taste." - Steve Jobs, April 1998

"iMac is next year's computer for $1,299, not last year's computer for $999." - Steve Jobs, May 1998

"The cure for Apple is not cost-cutting. The cure for Apple is to innovate its way out of its current predicament." - Steve Jobs 2004, Apple Confidential 2.0

"They are shamelessly copying us." - Steve Jobs April 2005 (regarding Microsoft Vista)
Microsoft currently has SO many interests pulling at it, that its very difficult to see how they can function effectively.

~ CB
 
sorry but i actaully want quality and reliability in my machine

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/535/1051535/apple-reliable-cheap-chinese-computers

apple doesnt meet that requirement

Not saying that Asus may or may not be a more reliable computer. but to say that apple has no quality or reliability may require more than one poll by one computer repair chain, substantial as they may be. To wit, there are likely more best buy locations than rescuecom locations. So in the same way there's no accounting for the amount of apple products taken into apple stores for repair, there's no accounting for PCs taken into best buys for repair.

furthermore. the author of that article was not objective and careless. besides using "jobs mob" and "fanboy" slurs, he also never proofread his article and wrote "bought" instead of "brought."

that's not to make a statement regarding whether or not apple has gone down in quality. Just saying that the sources you are using for a basis for claiming that they have no reliability or quality is not sound.
 
$700-800 is the sweet spot for most other hardware companies and me personally.

In before storm of replies.

funny you say that, i just built a rig for someone that was $798

AMD Phenom II 2.6GHz
4GB PC2-1066 OCZ
640GB HDD
ATi 4870 1GB

this rig should be able to play any game and run any application. too bad macs werent more competative, that would force PC makers to be even more competative than they already are
 
For every study out there like that, there are others with Apple on top plus they have the industry's highest satisfaction rates.

yes but seeing the problems reported on THIS WEBSITE alone makes me wonder why bother. it seems they have the same problems as everyone else at the SAME ratio of occurence. remember most PC's only cost HALF of what Macs cost. i want that 2x price to have some kind of reliability rather than looks or brand name
 
Even if it is a crap screen, it is worse than that of a cheap netbook?

There was a article by a famous photographer last year, where the Dell mini 9 was voted as having a better screen (might have been against a MBP which is much better then the MB). Try searching the forums, naturally as the fanboys here knew alot more about colour representation then he did....
 
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