Microsoft Releases Second 'Laptop Hunters' Commercial

[Anuba]

Ah, I can understand the logic now behind the PC placement of the trackpad. I just checked on my Dell Latitude E6500 and it's exactly as you stated, smack between the G and H key. But although I understand the logic, I don't agree with it in terms of ergonomics. I'm floating my two hands in a home row typing position and on the PC my left palm is hovering over the trackpad. This, I'm reasoning, is due to more keys being to the right of the G and H keys than to the left. So the natural tendency of the right hand is to drift more towards the right in order to cover all the extra keys.

Compare this to my Macbook Unibody which as you stated has the G and H key slightly shifted to the right compared to a PC keyboard. Drawing a straight line down, the Apple trackpad is not centered between these keys. It's shifted slightly to the right and ends up exactly in the center of the machine. In terms of ergonomics, holding both my hands in home row position, both my palms are perfectly centered over the trackpad and are overlapping the trackpad in exactly equal amounts.

I think I did a fair comparison here. I'm not trying to be biased in either the PC or Apple direction. I think Apple made the better choice in terms of ergonomics to ignore the G and H centering. I'm almost surprised at how perfectly centered their keyboard layout is in terms of both getting the trackpad in dead center and at having both palms perfectly centered over the trackpad in home row. Like we talked about before, I think Apple did screw up the arrow keys by making them too small, but I stand by my claim that their trackpad positioning is perfect.

I agree that the basic idea of both shifting the center of the keyboard a little to the right and moving the trackpad to the center is good. It's just that there were some unforeseen consequences for international keyboard layouts. I can imagine it went a little something like this:

- Put the trackpad in the middle of the machine dammit.
- But then it's gonna be offset from the keyboard.
- Then come up with a way to make the keyboard fit the trackpad.
- Well, we could always shrink all those keys on the right hand side.
- Alright, high five!

2 months later:

- Umm... there's a problem with the new keyboard layout.
- What?
- Well, turns out the vertical return key on European keyboards will be no wider than a toothpick.

(pause)

- Mehhhhhh, f***'em.
- You got it, Mr. Jobs.

 

[4D4M]

The MacBook "Pro" is nothing more than a consumer machine with the word "Pro" tacked on...

...Aside from the iPod and iPhone, Apple really is the Bose of computing. You spend a lot more money for a lot less overall features and performance in a package that isn't built half as well as cheaper products.

This is a Mac forum. Most of us come on here because we prefer using Macs and OS X to PCs and Windows.

From what I've seen most of us have found that the build quality on our Macs is in fact better than cheaper products. Sorry if you've had a bad experience, but you're in a minority.

As for whether my MBP is "pro" or not, I couldn't give a damn. Does it run my "pro" apps really well and help me do my job? Yes it does. Is it more than fast enough for what I need? Yes it is. You are right, the word "pro" is just tacked on. It's just marketing speak, we know that.

So you can shout about specs all you want. Do your 'pro' PCs run Mac OS X? No they don't, they run Vista. Game over.

 

[Rob0711]

haha. so i guess this forum is now really overrun by ms marketing people. not that that would be a new strategy but well i wish there were a ms fanbase at all then they´d have a forum for themselves. i think the thread once was about the tv spot being a bit silly (at best). take it easy guys. no one forces you to buy anything. so buy what fits your needs and stop this nonsense. there will always be pros who use either or both systems. and guess what. we do all get along in the real world. my 5 cent

 

[chagla]

Do your 'pro' PCs run Mac OS X? No they don't, they run Vista. Game over.

you do know why osx does not run on say a dell or hp right?
if you are a regular here, you would have seen the answer already.

saying "PC's can't run os x like apple computers" is as (or probably more) stupid as saying "car's can't go 500mph like an airplane".

fact is osx is CRIPPLED so that it ONLY runs on apple computer. have you ever thought what really stops os x from running on PC? jeez, you throw linux, unix, windows etc etc, they all run fine on PC hardware.

 

[Anuba]

As for whether my MBP is "pro" or not, I couldn't give a damn. Does it run my "pro" apps really well and help me do my job? Yes it does. Is it more than fast enough for what I need? Yes it is. You are right, the word "pro" is just tacked on. It's just marketing speak, we know that.

Yes, it's marketing speak with an incredibly powerful placebo effect, to the point where you can take the exact same product you sell to consumers, slap the "Pro" label on it and have 95% of the users say "wow, this feels so much better/sturdier/more reliable/more well built than the standard version".

ProTools became an industry standard in digital audio recording not because it was better than anything else, but because it was called _Pro_ Tools. How can it not be the best? It says "pro" on it so it must be.

Few have exploited it more shamelessly than Apple, though.

 

[pwn247]

haha. so i guess this forum is now really overrun by ms marketing people. not that that would be a new strategy but well i wish there were a ms fanbase at all then they´d have a forum for themselves. i think the thread once was about the tv spot being a bit silly (at best). take it easy guys. no one forces you to buy anything. so buy what fits your needs and stop this nonsense. there will always be pros who use either or both systems. and guess what. we do all get along in the real world. my 5 cent

We don't spend our time ranting about how lame a commercial is, we comment on errors and misconceptions drawn from what Microsoft's marketing department wants the consumer base to think.

For example, in that first ad, I think the #1 complaint we had with that was she called the Apple Store the "Mac store". If she had actually walked into the store (which she didn't, as the extra they had walk by was still walking after the cut between shots), she might've discovered that they also sell iPods, iPhones, Apple TVs, Cinema Displays, and software/accessories too- not just Macs. (Hehe, silly Microsoft)


I guess my biggest complaint with this is at the way Microsoft is advertising. Microsoft doesn't make hardware, they make the OS. The commercial advertises exclusively the hardware, and not the software. Instead of telling us to buy a PC, tell us to buy Vista. Most of the consumer base is still on XP, and we need a really good set of reasons why Vista is something we should upgrade to or choose over OS X.

 

[Rob0711]

@pwn247

i´m with you there. my point was only that instead of focusing on their bad marketing, this thread is moving into a mac vs pc hardware debate. and by the way some posts read it looks much like some ms marketing guys actually found their way onto a mac site to continue the spot in a pseudo-viral form.
my second set of cents

 

[4D4M]

you do know why osx does not run on say a dell or hp right?
if you are a regular here, you would have seen the answer already.

saying "PC's can't run os x like apple computers" is as (or probably more) stupid as saying "car's can't go 500mph like an airplane".

fact is osx is CRIPPLED so that it ONLY runs on apple computer. have you ever thought what really stops os x from running on PC? jeez, you throw linux, unix, windows etc etc, they all run fine on PC hardware.

"If you are a regular here" ? ... Cheap shot!

Yes I'm well aware Apple chooses not to license its OS to other manufacturers and hobbles it to stop people from installing it on PCs. That's why I said "Does..." and not "Can..."

That's up to Apple, it's their product, their business. They are a business like any other, capable of being as ruthless and dirty as Microsoft or anyone.

I just prefer their OS and their hardware, that's all.

 

[tubbymac]

I guess my biggest complaint with this is at the way Microsoft is advertising. Microsoft doesn't make hardware, they make the OS. The commercial advertises exclusively the hardware, and not the software. Instead of telling us to buy a PC, tell us to buy Vista. Most of the consumer base is still on XP, and we need a really good set of reasons why Vista is something we should upgrade to or choose over OS X.

I don't agree. I think Vista is a complete failure marketing wise. I think any smart marketing company would and SHOULD avoid using the very term Vista or making any reference to it in any commercial.

These new commercials are on the right track. Completely disassociate PCs from Vista until Windows 7 comes out, and then throw the Windows 7 term around all over the place and never mention Vista.

 

[Anuba]

I guess my biggest complaint with this is at the way Microsoft is advertising. Microsoft doesn't make hardware, they make the OS. The commercial advertises exclusively the hardware, and not the software. Instead of telling us to buy a PC, tell us to buy Vista. Most of the consumer base is still on XP, and we need a really good set of reasons why Vista is something we should upgrade to or choose over OS X.

Vista has been out for over 2 years, the Win7 public beta has been out for quite some time and the Win7 release candidate will be released to the public in a matter of weeks. Given that the Win7 beta is very stable for a beta, the release candidate will be even better and therefore a lot of people will migrate to Win7 now and stick with it until the final version is released to stores sometime this fall. Vista is already history. To run a Vista ad now, would be the biggest waste of money since the government's bank bailout.

These ads have nothing to do with Vista, nor should they. If you want ads for Windows itself, be careful what you wish for because once they roll out the big guns for the Windows 7 launch you'll have Windows ads coming out of your nose.

 

[Rob0711]

true they will ramp up windows7 marketing like people cast water off a sinking ship. as well they will ditch the third agency this season since all campaigns so far were complete failures. (and if it actually was the same agency all the time then they should rather start praying)

 

[Anuba]

true they will ramp up windows7 marketing like people cast water off a sinking ship. as well they will ditch the third agency this season since all campaigns so far were complete failures. (and if it actually was the same agency all the time then they should rather start praying)

Not sure if you've even tried Windows 7 but if Vista is a sinking ship, Windows 7 is the coast guard coming to the rescue. Just like WinXP made everyone magically forget there was ever something called Windows 98 or Windows ME.

The agency that's been doing their ads ever since the Seinfeld ones is CP+B, the kings of viral marketing and Agency of the Year in 2008. I seriously doubt MS would dump them, CP+B is the only cool factor Microsoft ever had.

 

[MH01]

We don't spend our time ranting about how lame a commercial is, we comment on errors and misconceptions drawn from what Microsoft's marketing department wants the consumer base to think.

For example, in that first ad, I think the #1 complaint we had with that was she called the Apple Store the "Mac store". If she had actually walked into the store (which she didn't, as the extra they had walk by was still walking after the cut between shots), she might've discovered that they also sell iPods, iPhones, Apple TVs, Cinema Displays, and software/accessories too- not just Macs. (Hehe, silly Microsoft)


I guess my biggest complaint with this is at the way Microsoft is advertising. Microsoft doesn't make hardware, they make the OS. The commercial advertises exclusively the hardware, and not the software. Instead of telling us to buy a PC, tell us to buy Vista. Most of the consumer base is still on XP, and we need a really good set of reasons why Vista is something we should upgrade to or choose over OS X.

I believe the underlying point of these ads is that we are in a recession.

Ahhh the days when apple was a computer company..... maybe she is older then she looks and still thinks Apple is all about computer hence the "mac Store". I think the biggest complaint in from the first ad was...well a few. She said she was not cool enough to own a mac, she was AN ACTRESS!!!! She drove a VW and people could not believe that MS would punch below the belt and have a go at apple pricing (Apple products having a go at vista are fine though and awesome advertising).....then add 2000 rants about how Vista is $!!!$ (£*(*£(! (£!£!*£!! etc etc .

And there is no way an apple store manager would have allowed her to enter the store and film an ad for MS..... please think about it.

Maybe M$ has finally had enough of apple having a go at vista in their ads. I think the apple ads are very direct and insulting. MS are being rather diplomatic in thier ads. Apple picked the fight here.

 

[MH01]

true they will ramp up windows7 marketing like people cast water off a sinking ship. as well they will ditch the third agency this season since all campaigns so far were complete failures. (and if it actually was the same agency all the time then they should rather start praying)

Complete failures, how?

The last ad resulted in 3200+ replies on this forum....... hardly a failure of marketing.

I am more surprised these ads are not aired in Europe, Apple pricing here is worse then in the US.

 

[Rob0711]

@anuba well that was an analogy referring to the speed and intensity with which people do things. in my case people casting water overboard and ms marketing pushing out ad´s. but i guess any forum advertiser would know that. though i really like the coastguard picture yes. xp made me as well forget 3.1, 95, me, 98, nt4 and xp. because i gave all the crap to poor people once i bought my first mac . besides, i wouldn´t dare to call a behemoth like ms a sinking ship. and well. actually i like some of the agencies ad´s.but then it must be the customer or the product who fumbled things in this run. but who on this forum wouldn´t have guessed so. even coastguard ships sink

 

[iMpathetic]

2k Pro was really good.

 

[Anuba]

Ahhh the days when apple was a computer company..... maybe she is older then she looks and still thinks Apple is all about computer hence the "mac Store". I think the biggest complaint in from the first ad was...well a few. She said she was not cool enough to own a mac, she was AN ACTRESS!!!! She drove a VW and people could not believe that MS would punch below the belt and have a go at apple pricing (Apple products having a go at vista are fine though and awesome advertising).....then add 2000 rants about how Vista is $!!!$ (£*(*£(! (£!£!*£!! etc etc .

Well, she was one of those "actresses" who work as waitresses and dream of being discovered one day (her an 3 million other chicks in California), and the ad she responded to on Craigslist said nothing about acting, it was about market research on laptop purchasing. It was only later she discovered there was an actual acting job involved, and that the ad agency posing as a market research firm discovered that she was an "actress". And her name actually is Lauren so it's funny how everyone keeps putting the name in quotes.

The reason she referred to it as the "Mac Store" is pretty self-evident; the ad agency wanted to disassociate the Apple Store from iPods, iPhones etc and have it just be about Mac vs. PC.

 

[Rob0711]

well if you pour oil into water you always stir some waves. this is an apple forum after all. and looking at the numbers. then yes. from the advertisers point of view they were a hit. big hit actually since it´s still going on (with me wasting time here ) still i doubt it will transfer into an effective sales increase if only done on a mac forum. if your people do the same on engadget gizmodo and tons of others this might make a change. but tbh. i doubt it. and after all. doubt is legal.

 

[4D4M]

Complete failures, how?

The last ad resulted in 3200+ replies on this forum....... hardly a failure of marketing.

I am more surprised these ads are not aired in Europe, Apple pricing here is worse then in the US.

We're talking about it because it's interesting and relevant to this site and the people on here - it is after all a direct attack on the Mac platform.

The fact that the ads have stirred up a lot of debate among a group of people whose platform of choice they are bashing is not a sign of a successful campaign. We've already made our choice, I doubt it was aimed at us. Who among us is going to switch back to Windows on the strength of that commercial? Anyone?

Now, if the campaign has caused this much discussion among non tech and/or non Mac people, that's a different matter - it can be deemed a success.

 

[Anuba]

yes. xp made me as well forget 3.1, 95, me, 98, nt4 and xp.

So XP made you forget XP... that's pretty funny.

besides, i wouldn´t dare to call a behemoth like ms a sinking ship. and well.

Yeah, they're so big they're not really floating, they're just standing with both feet on the ocean floor no matter how deep. Unsinkable unless they're standing in quicksand.

actually i like some of the agencies ad´s.but then it must be the customer or the product who fumbled things in this run. but who on this forum wouldn´t have guessed so. even coastguard ships sink

Apparently this agency is the one you call when you have brand perception problems, and the brand perception problem that Microsoft had identified had nothing to do with the usual instability/viruses stuff, but that they felt that Windows wasn't perceived as fun and cool, but office-cubicle boring (apparently Apple identified the same thing, considering how much they go on about "pie charts" in their Mac vs. PC ads). So the Seinfeld ads were designed to be totally random and weird in an almost artsy way, because dark and quirky humor is the last thing you'd expect from a boring and geeky company, you think their humor is mostly about giggling at knock-knock jokes at the watercooler.

 

[MH01]

We're talking about it because it's interesting and relevant to this site and the people on here - it is after all a direct attack on the Mac platform.

The fact that the ads have stirred up a lot of debate among a group of people whose platform of choice they are bashing is not a sign of a successful campaign. We've already made our choice, I doubt it was aimed at us. Who among us is going to switch back to Windows on the strength of that commercial? Anyone?

Now, if the campaign has caused this much discussion among non tech and/or non Mac people, that's a different matter - it can be deemed a success.

You cannot say though that the ads are a failure. they are pitched at new buyers in a recession. Will take months before we know if they are a success.

Switch back no, I run both. Though some $$ pressed individuals may decide against a new MBP in this economic climate and get a PC. Some people on this forum would pay 2x for a MBP..... lucky for them they have $$. There are people out there right now that $500 really maters and for them an apple product may not be an option. The timing of these ads is perfect, things are only going to get worse this year. A computer is not an investment. Owning an apple is frankly a luxury right now, you can do the same things on a PC and save $$$

 

[Rob0711]

yes. i cleansed my mind of all that crap. so xp was indeed the stepping stone that made me switch (although it was the second best product they did up to that time next to nt4)

and the last time i read something about something being unsinkable was in a text about the titanic. i doubt it´s a wise marketing move to go into that direction

and well. the description of the agency fits to many many companies worldwide. since that´s basically the idea behind all of that. (and yes that´s not entirely true since there are many objectives in marketing, but you went on talking about the coolness and brand perception thingie)
and the seinfeld ads were actually the funnier ones of that series (which went on with i´m a pc and ended with these shopping ads now)
but if you actually think anyone here now wishes we could be as cool as seinfeld or bill in these ads. then better think different

 

[polaris20]

I need to chime in again on this whole debate.

I think its funny that people actually buy into this whole "Pro" and "Consumer" thing that Apple has set up. People actually believe that MacBook Pro is a "Pro" machine.

Agreed. I think at this point the "Pro" moniker is silly, as "consumer" machines can be used professionally and "Pro" machines can be used at home.

But let's look at the MacBook Pro for a minute. Assuming it is a "Pro" machine, that put its up there with the Business notebooks from Dell and HP. If the MacBook Pro is a "Pro" machine, why does it use a consumer GPU? On top of that, if its a "Pro" machine, why is it using what is considered to be the lowest of the midrange consumer GPUs? The "Pro" machines from HP and Dell come with considerably faster mobile workstation GPUs (Quadro and FireGL GPUs). If the MacBook Pro is a "Pro" machine, where are the quadcore options? Aside from the more expensive option on the MacBook Pro, where are the anti-glare screen options? Why only offer consumer grade screens? Where are the blu-ray writer options? HDMI? Full disk encryption? RAID support? Not to mention the card readers (memory and smart card), full size ExpressCard, fingerprint readers, eSATA, etc. What about the build quality? The MacBook "Pro" is built out of material that easily dents, scratches, and can generally be easily destroyed. The "Pro" systems from PC manufacturers are built out of much stronger materials that can take a hit and not even show it. PC manufacturers are so confident in their build quality that their "Pro" systems come with 3 year warranties as standard. Some of them even offer 3 years of on-site support as standard, but for most its an option for about the same cost as Apple's extended warranty that requires mail-in service to service centers that are notorious for sending the system back in worse shape than they received it in (I know this from first hand experience). Not only does Apple's 3 year warranty cost as much as PC's optional warranty, it doesn't cover as much as PC makers warranties. Really, if the MacBook "Pro" is a true "Pro" machine and truly better than those from PC manufacturers, why doesn't Apple stand behind their product the way HP, Dell, and others do?

I mean honestly, if the MacBook "Pro" is a "Pro" machine, why does it offer not even half of the options of true "Pro" machines from PC manufacturers? Why does it have less options than consumer notebooks costing less than half as much? Why isn't built as well as those consumer notebooks costing less than half as much? It can't even begin to compare to the build quality of "Pro" machines from PC manufacturers. Why does it only offer "consumer" options for the GPU, screen, and other features?

The MacBook "Pro" is nothing more than a consumer machine with the word "Pro" tacked on.

While I won't get too much into the reliability standpoint of Mac vs. HP, Dell, etc., I will say that on my 3rd Mac personally (while still owning the 400Mhz that is still running) and supporting a few MBP's, and soon to be a few MP's, I haven't had much trouble at all with Apples in general, and when I have, AppleCare was excellent. HP, however, has had significant reliability problems and support problems for the last few years, coinciding with when Carly left the company. Coincidence? Perhaps. But it's ironic the timelines of her departure and the decline in quality of support match up pretty well.

I will say that while I wish the MBP had a Quadro, our experience with the HP NW9440 and HP 8710w has left a somewhat sour taste in terms of high-powered workstation cards in a laptop. Both of them have continual problems with overheating, and I've replaced multiple motherboards on them. The Lenovo Thinkpads using the FX570m however has been great. This is the GPU Apple should have used, because it's pretty nicely balanced between power and heat load.

As someone (I think Anuba) said, Apple has painted themselves into corner with the thinness, and there's just no way an FX1600 or 1700 wouldn't completely fry the laptop in that enclosure.

But that's my personal anecdote against yours, so we'll call that a draw.

Now let's look at the Mac "Pro". Apple, again, claims this is a "Pro" system. Sure it has the Xeon processor. But where are the processor options? Why am I stuck with only a couple? Where is the RAM expandability? HP "Workstations" offer up to 192GB of RAM. Where are the workstation GPUs? Why am I, again, stuck with low-end consumer grade GPUs that even moderate gamers wouldn't consider worth the money? Why do I have to buy a card for RAID? Where are the blu-ray burners that aren't from 3rd parties that are only interested in extreme price gouging? What about expandability? Why am I stuck with only one PCIe x16 and 2 PCIe x4? A "Pro" system should at least offer the same amount of expandability as a $100 motherboard for a "consumer" desktop system.

So, again, the Mac "Pro", aside from the processor, is nothing more than a glorified and ridiculously overpriced consumer grade system. Other than the processor, it has absolutely nothing in common with true workstations from other manufacturers and offers less expandability than a $600 desktop from Best Buy. The sad thing is you can make that $600 desktop from Best Buy a more capable "workstation" because you can actually get a workstation quality GPU and throw it in, and that desktop will have all of the expandability options it needs to be a "workstation".

Aside from the iPod and iPhone, Apple really is the Bose of computing. You spend a lot more money for a lot less overall features and performance in a package that isn't built half as well as cheaper products.

I absolutely agree that there's a lack of choice with Apple. There's been a significant lack of choice ever since Jobs came back and scaled back the product lines and killed off the clones. But that's nothing new, and anyone buying one I would think realizes that. If not, they'd surely know it when doing consumer research. People still do that, right?

It comes down to this; while I personally can get my work done on OS X, Windows, or even Linux, myself and others do like the OS X UI and workflow. Therefore that's what we use as a primary personal system. We therefore have to accept Apple's lack of choice, or move on and adapt to Windows or Linux's workflows.

However do we use Apple in the server room? Nope. HP servers (which are fantastic) running Windows for what it does best (mail, AD, Terminal Services) and Linux for what it does best (cluster computing, SQL, web).

Right tool for the right job.

 

[4D4M]

You cannot say though that the ads are a failure. they are pitched at new buyers in a recession. Will take months before we know if they are a success.

Switch back no, I run both. Though some $$ pressed individuals may decide against a new MBP in this economic climate and get a PC. Some people on this forum would pay 2x for a MBP..... lucky for them they have $$. There are people out there right now that $500 really maters and for them an apple product may not be an option. The timing of these ads is perfect, things are only going to get worse this year. A computer is not an investment. Owning an apple is frankly a luxury right now, you can do the same things on a PC and save $$$

Agreed - its way too early to write these ads off as a failure. On the contrary I actually think they will have some success among everyday folk. (It's hardly rocket science though - advertising a cheaper product during a recession).

Actually a computer IS an investment to some people. When they buy one, they expect to earn money with it. And many established Mac users couldn't do the same thing on a PC and save money, because they already have a significant investment in Mac software. Buying a cheap PC is one thing but replacing all your software with PC versions is another matter.

Owning a Mac is a luxury? I could go on about loss of productivity due to spyware etc but I won't...

 

[Anuba]

We're talking about it because it's interesting and relevant to this site and the people on here - it is after all a direct attack on the Mac platform.

The fact that the ads have stirred up a lot of debate among a group of people whose platform of choice they are bashing is not a sign of a successful campaign. We've already made our choice, I doubt it was aimed at us. Who among us is going to switch back to Windows on the strength of that commercial? Anyone?

Of course not. If they wanted to sway Mac users' minds, the last thing they would do is show computers in the $700-1500 price range.

As for causing a stir in the Mac community, well I have to say it's kind of funny how everyone gets riled up and almost take it personally, given the history of Apple's marketing. Steve Jobs has been trash-talking MS for over 25 years (something you'd think he would rise above and not stoop to the level of scum like wrestlers or hip-hoppers doing the "all you sucka MCs" bit), and for at least 10 years the same trash-talking, mocking and taunting has been a cornerstone in their ads (I think this is the 10th anniversary of the "Pentium Toaster" campaign they used when launching the G3). When Microsoft finally steps up and addresses these ads directly, for the first time ever, the Mac community suddenly doesn't like the game anymore. I get the mental image of a school bully who has been terrorizing the other kids for years, and when someone finally works up the courage to bitch-slap him lightly, he breaks down and starts sobbing like a baby and runs to the teacher.

Owning a Mac is a luxury? I could go on about loss of productivity due to spyware etc but I won't...

Actually, do go on. Explain why this "spyware" would take productivity time out of anyone's day. I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong since my level of productivity is the same regardless of whether I'm on my iMac or one of my PCs.