Well said, these dudes assume we don't also use PC's and Vista, if PC's are so wonderful to us, we would already be lying up to buy them, but we prefer Macs which is why we continue buying them.
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Microsoft Releases Second 'Laptop Hunters' Commercial
- Thread starter fpbecker
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Well said, these dudes assume we don't also use PC's and Vista, if PC's are so wonderful to us, we would already be lying up to buy them, but we prefer Macs which is why we continue buying them.
Yes PC's can't run OSX, if you want to hack it and put it on it, that is your business, some of us don't have the time for that. Show me any ways I can go to hp.com or dell.com and order a machine with OSX.
Goes both ways, doesn't it? There are plenty of dual-platform users such as myself on here who are OK with working with either OS, yet a lot of Mac-only users are somehow under the impression that a Mac is this mythical, exotic thing that most people have only seen in movies, and thus think it's safe to make up wild stories about how a Mac never crashes while living with Windows is some sort of constant war against "spyware" and "viruses" that leaves you exhausted by the end of the day. I'd reserve those fairytales for closed gatherings of Mac devotees.
Funny that I've never noticed it - but you're right. All of my laptops have the trackpad centered under the pointing stick - right where it should be. (Except for a couple that have pointing sticks only, and no trackpad.)
I think Anuba has the right view - keep the right-hand keys full size, and move the track pad.
Also think about the fact that the "passers by" outside the Mac Store were also actors. CP+B wouldn't risk invasion of privacy suits by filming people who happened to walk by.
It was a mistake, though, for the producer not to at least have the guy in the striped shirt change clothes between the "before" and the "after"
.Umm - "oil on water" has a calming effect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00PPPt7EJqo
Yes that is good for you if you have no problems with windows. Plenty of people do that's why Windows doesn't have 100 percent marketshare and the likes of Apple and Linux are there as alternatives. A lot of mac users use windows at work or have grown up with windows to know how it works but yet they still use macs. Not everybody wants to use windows just like the majority of people don't use macs. That's why there is choice, if you feel Windows is adequate for your needs, that's fine but for others it isn't, which is why they choose to use other operating systems.
After having fought for 5 hours with my mom's Windows XP machine because it was slow to the point of unusable after she updated her anti-virus, I wouldn't be able to say with a straight face that Windows requiring that kind of software in the first place is a good thing.
Sure you can't blame Microsoft for poorly made software. But there's no chance your uninformed parents will install this poorly made software if it wasn't required in the first place.
Sometimes, you just wish you could ssh in and just prstat -s cpu 1 1 | egrep -v "PID|^1 |init" | head -5 | awk '{ print $1}' | xargs kill -9. I know Windows has telnetd, but it doesn't have the rest of the needed utilities...
Umm - "oil on water" has a calming effect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00PPPt7EJqo[/QUOTE]
actually i really mixed that up. i meant water into boiling oil. sorry for any chaos it might have caused
actually i really mixed that up. i meant water into boiling oil. sorry for any chaos it might have caused
Who's getting riled up? I'm not. As I said before, it's interesting and relevant to me as a Mac user, that's why I'm discussing it.
Ah, now I see who's getting riled up!
Why would you think Jobs would rise above this? Apple is just as down and dirty as any other big business. Trash talking your competitors is sadly part of the game.
Well it was a flippant comment meant in jest (because I know Macs would probably suffer from similar problems if the platform was more popular), but since you ask...
I had to spend time removing malware from my friend's PC because the popups and crap were driving him crazy and reducing his productivity. Which took time out of my day and reduced my productivity.
Then when I installed anti-virus software on his PC, he noticed the whole system was considerably slower, which, guess what, reduced his productivity.
I'd hazard a guess that you are a fairly advanced user who knows how to keep his system in tip top shape to keep it running well. Most users, however, are not.
Actually, I see the Apple campaigns as usually positive. OS X can do X, OS X doesn't need extra software for Y, Z is not a threat to OS X.
The MS campaign is negative in tone. Macs are "too cool" (just a fad, trend), Macs are just a logo, not powerful, Macs are too expensive.
Hence maybe why no one ever made 3000 post threads on Apple commercials, but yet Microsoft generates this much debate. They aren't playing on the strenght of their product at all, they are just attacking the weaknesses of the competition.
... like Hodgeman with the sniffles because he has a virus ?
... like Hodgeman going into surgery for his vista upgrade ?
... like the supermodel and the bear in drag ?
... like Hodgeman putting money in "marketing" and "engineering" piles ?
I amazed that someone thinks that the PC vs. MAC ads are "positive"...
I'd love to agree with you here, but I'm still smiling about the "I'm a PC/I'm a Mac" ad where the PC keeps crashing and rebooting. Positive? No. Funny? Yes!
A bit more entertaining and well thought out than a campaign that says "PCs are cheaper than Macs".
Apple just used Pro the wrong way. The MacBook Pro should be called the Pro MacBook. That's the statement the customers are making.
I never said I had a problem with people's preferences. If they like whatever OS they use then more elbow power to them. What bugs me as a dual-platform user is all the lying and exaggerations from both sides because it destroys the ability for new users to make an informed choice.
If Windows had been even half as bad as some Mac users make it out to be, there is nothing, absolutely nothing that could have made over 1 billion legit users (and probably another billion illegit users) stick with it if there are vastly better alternatives in plain sight -- and some of these alternatives (Linux etc) are *free* and doesn't require them to buy new hardware. And why would they? Some people are indeed stupid and gullible, but nowhere near 90%.
Yes, for wrestlers, boxers, hip-hoppers, used car salesmen and people who run companies with names along the lines of "The Mattress King". But global corporations with some grace and self-confidence don't.
Did you ever see the CEO of BMW drag a Mercedes up on stage and go "look at this crap. Look at these door handles, look how feeble they are. And these seats, blehhhh! Oh and don't get me started on Volvo! Man their cars suck. Ours are much better, look. Now I'd like to run a commercial for you, let's watch."
"Hi, I'm a BMW..."
"...and I'm a Volvo".
"You don't look so good Volvo, what's up?"
"Oh it's these horrible seat belts. They made my front bumper so thin and weak that they had to compensate with seat belts so thick and wide, I can't even see where I'm driving."
Etc etc.
Really, it's quite embarrassing, Steve might as well pull his pants down on stage. It makes him look like a small and petty man, and he has no reason to be either of those things. I'd venture a guess that trash-talking the competition is in the top 5 list of "advertising don'ts" in chapter 1 of Marketing for Dummies, because the signal it sends is that one has so little confidence in one's own product that there's nothing good to say about it. Like those negative ads that McCain hoped would take down Obama, instead it backfired on him.
I've done that as well, on my parents' computer which my younger siblings used as a garbage disposal for gigabytes of useless crap they've installed over the years. Careless and/or clueless people can definitely screw up a PC, which is why I recommend Mac to newbies, seniors etc. The driver has to know what he's doing, otherwise it'll be like when rich people who can't drive buy a Koenigsegg and crash straight into a lamp post 50 yards down the street.
Much less of a problem with Vista/Win7, though. It has a built-in spyware scanner and a lot of dumb steps have to be taken before you somehow manage to let viruses and trojans slip onto the machine. Using AV software in Vista is sort of like wearing three condoms, I think you'll do fine with just the one.
Agreed - its way too early to write these ads off as a failure. On the contrary I actually think they will have some success among everyday folk. (It's hardly rocket science though - advertising a cheaper product during a recession).
Actually a computer IS an investment to some people. When they buy one, they expect to earn money with it. And many established Mac users couldn't do the same thing on a PC and save money, because they already have a significant investment in Mac software. Buying a cheap PC is one thing but replacing all your software with PC versions is another matter.
Owning a Mac is a luxury? I could go on about loss of productivity due to spyware etc but I won't...
I think we are talking about your average user here. The home users. No software / hardware for personal use is an investment. Within a year your hardware and software has depreciated. And investment is not suppose to depreciate every year. A house is an investment (as its is suppose to go up in value over time....)
From reading these forums it seems most mac users are very very happy with Ilife.... and do not need aps beyond these. The users you are talking about will probably have Final cut / CS4 etc are not the users these ads are aimed at (these professional users will get macs if they own mac software or PCs if they own pc hardware). Not all software is better on a mac, take CS4... your better off getting a PC.
I very much believe that Apple products are luxury purchases. My MBA is not 3x or 4x more productive then a PC. When i take it out at an Airport lounge all the marketing / management people around me drool.... and actual IT people who know about hardware give me the old "that pretentious tosser just paid a fortune for gimped functionality" look.
This pretty much sums up my feelings too. I have absolutely no problems, viruses, spyware, random crashes, or any of that other nonsense on my PC running Windows. But then again, I know how to work a computer and use OSX, Windows, and Linux on all my various machines.
But your average user? Or especially people who don't know much about computers? Windows is a fire hazard just waiting to be set on fire for most of them. Eventually something will go wrong. Either they'll get a virus, they'll get some spyware, or they'll install so much random junk and all manner of useless antivirus/antispyware programs that their computer will run like garbage anyway.
Give those users Linux for free and it's even worse. They won't get a virus. They won't get spyware. But they'll be calling you every week asking how to get their hardware working properly, or how to do the "equivalent" of what they're used to (Microsoft Office, Photoshop, etc) in OpenOffice or The Gimp.
But give your average user OSX and what happens? No more bloody phone calls, and even if they do call, you can just point them to the personal training sessions at the Apple Store. Leave them at it for a few years and their computer is still running like a champ. On top of that they don't ask you how to do the "equivalent" because most of the Apple software out of the box does it better anyway so they get used to the new programs instead of trying to do the same thing in a "knock off clone" program like OpenOffice.
Apple nailed the newbie market perfectly. Windows is getting there with Windows 7 but still doesn't cater to newbies as well as Apple does. Linux is still way off the mark for "computer newbies" but is amazing in the hands of a pro.
So when my friends ask me what computer to buy, if I don't think they know much about computers I point them to the Apple Store. If I think they are technically minded I point them to Windows. If I think they are rocket scientists I point them to Linux.
LOL
At least you're not camped out at a Starbucks with it!
Not while there is free alcohol in an airport lounge and you can mess with Marketing / management try hards who struggle to turn on their computers and image is everything.
Getting too old for the Starbucks scene..... Just cannot pull off that university pretentious look anymore.... maybe I could go for the writer look??? Suit my grey hairs....
Heheh.MH01 said:
Exactly my feeling when I see a posh mom trying to stuff 3 kids and six shopping bags into a Mini Cooper. "But it looked so cute..." Yeah good for you, enjoy your claustrophobia.
I agree and I don't. Depends on whether we're talking before or after the paradigm shift that occured with Vista. Firstly, Vista/Win7 is very proactive in trying to stop you from screwing things up. It's not like in XP when you go to C:/Program Files or C:/Windows for the first time and instead of the directory tree, you see a (easily bypassed) warning about messing with those files. In Vista you've got UAC working like a bouncer on a sugar rush. Secondly, you've got all these troubleshooting guides and problem reporting mechanisms, and tons and tons of documentation (the help files). I don't know how long you've used MacOS, but it wasn't too long ago that Macs had no Help stuff at all. I was working on "help bubbles" for a piece of software at the time, and said "OK I'm done with the PC version, now what about Mac?" "There is no help on Mac".
I would argue that a really clueless user, I'm talking the retarded, mental 3-year old kind who will drag the whole Applications folder to the trash just to see what happens, or move apps to the desktop thinking shortcuts/aliases and apps are the same, can actually do more damage on a Mac than on a Vista PC. But provided they have at least three brain cells but limited computer experience, they're certainly better off on a Mac than an XP PC, and a little (but not much) better off than on a Vista/Win7 PC.
I have a Mac newbie in my house (my girlfriend) and she is mightily annoyed with the Menu Bar that seems to show the wrong content for the wrong window every time she goes there. A newbie who has some basic, limited experience with Windows does not have her/his brain wired to the idea of separate elements of multiple applications co-existing on the screen. In Vista it's blatantly obvious what's the foreground and what's the background, but on a Mac you've got the menu bar, the free-floating ("orphaned") document windows and maybe a couple of toolbars from other applications lying around, it can get really confusing for a n00b.
Also, in order to "nail the newbie market perfectly", Apple should perhaps think about entry-level computers in a lower price range because their prices aren't exactly a newbie magnet.
Hah. I actually know the guy in that commercial, and no he's not acting. There's no need to put his name in quotes.
Anyway, I asked him why he was hating on my beloved macs, and his direct response was "haha I didn't hate on macs, they just don't work for me."
Fair enough.
Anyway, I asked him why he was hating on my beloved macs, and his direct response was "haha I didn't hate on macs, they just don't work for me."
Fair enough.
Αctually, there is some things I don't get here.
1) We already knew Macs were more expensive than PC's. So the ad never said anything new.
2) We already knew that Macs and PCs have different target groups. For me, there is no reason I buy a PC, since I can do all of my work on a Mac, and when I need the PC, I use Boot camp, or an emulator, which works extremely satisfying on my Intel Mac. PCs are for people who want some certain software. A gamer, will surely get a PC. A person who wants a fast computer but doesn't have much money will buy a PC.
3) When Apple attacks on PCs, they attack no one directly. PC market comprises by many companies, so anti-pc ads target no one specific. But an anti-Mac ad such as this, targets the Mac platform specifically! Why? Why Microsoft would want to attack the Mac Market and not all non-Windows alternatives? Apple is making hardware and software, and Microsoft is making software-only (let alone the consoles). Since a person who has a Mac can also buy Windows for his machine, I find that advertisement strategy by Microsoft very strange! Could it be because they want to avoid users buying a Mac in the first place and see that they don't need to buy Windows after all?
Macs and PCs are both computers, such as it happens with BMW and Ford that are both cars. However, it's the philosophy behind each company that makes a difference to the end user. And I explain myself:
Ford Focus ST (greek price) with 225 hp: 27000 Euros
BMW 320 (greek Price) with 170 hp: 40000 Euros
Wow! 13000 euros price difference! And you get less horsepower! Why would you choose the BMW then? Because the BMW can take turns better, it has the horsepower on the back wheels, and it has a great behaviour on the road. BUT it still has less horsepower!
So why bother solving the same equations with Macs and PCs? Do you think that Apple has never thought of providing a less expensive middle-ware Mac? Do you think Microsoft has never thought of providing a very stable PC with great performance? The fact is that they won't do that, because they have different target groups!
Therefore, I find all this bashing and disagreement over Macs and PCs completely useless and it won't provide any solution in the end.
1) We already knew Macs were more expensive than PC's. So the ad never said anything new.
2) We already knew that Macs and PCs have different target groups. For me, there is no reason I buy a PC, since I can do all of my work on a Mac, and when I need the PC, I use Boot camp, or an emulator, which works extremely satisfying on my Intel Mac. PCs are for people who want some certain software. A gamer, will surely get a PC. A person who wants a fast computer but doesn't have much money will buy a PC.
3) When Apple attacks on PCs, they attack no one directly. PC market comprises by many companies, so anti-pc ads target no one specific. But an anti-Mac ad such as this, targets the Mac platform specifically! Why? Why Microsoft would want to attack the Mac Market and not all non-Windows alternatives? Apple is making hardware and software, and Microsoft is making software-only (let alone the consoles). Since a person who has a Mac can also buy Windows for his machine, I find that advertisement strategy by Microsoft very strange! Could it be because they want to avoid users buying a Mac in the first place and see that they don't need to buy Windows after all?
Macs and PCs are both computers, such as it happens with BMW and Ford that are both cars. However, it's the philosophy behind each company that makes a difference to the end user. And I explain myself:
Ford Focus ST (greek price) with 225 hp: 27000 Euros
BMW 320 (greek Price) with 170 hp: 40000 Euros
Wow! 13000 euros price difference! And you get less horsepower! Why would you choose the BMW then? Because the BMW can take turns better, it has the horsepower on the back wheels, and it has a great behaviour on the road. BUT it still has less horsepower!
So why bother solving the same equations with Macs and PCs? Do you think that Apple has never thought of providing a less expensive middle-ware Mac? Do you think Microsoft has never thought of providing a very stable PC with great performance? The fact is that they won't do that, because they have different target groups!
Therefore, I find all this bashing and disagreement over Macs and PCs completely useless and it won't provide any solution in the end.
Hah. I actually know the guy in that commercial, and no he's not acting. There's no need to put his name in quotes.
Anyway, I asked him why he was hating on my beloved macs, and his direct response was "haha I didn't hate on macs, they just don't work for me."
Fair enough.
"they just don't work for me" ....... can that be used in the same sentence as an apple product..... you better put on your flame proof gear..... Fanboy elite reponce unit deployed in 3.....2.....1....
The problem with Vista/Win7 isn't in the actual security architecture. The OS itself is pretty well done in terms of security. Even the most adamant Apple fanboy should admit that it's light years better than the pretty much non existent security of Windows XP. The problem with Vista was that the UAC was too trigger happy. It popped up the security confirmation dialog for almost everything and either annoyed users enough to turn it completely off, or CONDITIONED them to click OK to anything that popped up. That's what gets a lot of newbies in hot water. They click OK too much and one wrong click is all it takes to get their computer infected.
Windows 7 solves that problem by eliminating the majority of useless UAC confirmations for general admin stuff, but it potentially has a different problem. With all the government crackdown on Microsoft's anti-competitive practices, Windows 7 looks like a pretty barebones OS. A typical user is going to have to install TONNES of stuff on it to get it decently functional. Every program they install is one more click of an OK prompt on a UAC dialog that gives the install program complete liberty to do whatever it wants. That cool little photo sharing program they found? Little did they know it installed some spyware with it when they clicked on OK.
Now compare this to Apple. With Apple it comes fresh out of the box with most of the programs a typical user would need. A newbie doesn't have to navigate a possible minefield of spyware/virus infested programs just to get their computer to a decent, functional state.
Yeah, I constantly have to explain to Apple newbies why the menu is so retardedly detached from the program compared to Windows. I also have to constantly explain why they don't have a right menu button. But I've never had to help them clean a virus or spyware problem, or even ever had to explain a reformat/reinstall. I can safely point a newbie to Apple and be guaranteed I won't turn into free tech support.
3. Apple directly targeted Vista - Does anyone know what company owns that product????
For bonus points. Which company came out swinging first? Apple or what is that ??? company that own vista?
I say game on, Apple we looking for a fight, so its on...... ding ding... In the red corner Apple....in hte blue corner ?? that own vista
Then again you're not really part of the target demographic, which is comprised of people out of whom many haven't checked out Mac prices yet, and now they won't bother.
OK, so basically you've established that you sometimes need Windows, which is another way of saying that the target groups overlap. This would probably explain why I have two of each kind.
Except maybe namedropping "Vista" about 800 times in the "Get a Mac" ads. Targets don't get any more specific than that.
Because none of the other alternatives attack Windows in ads? I have yet to see the "Hi, I'm Linux..." "...and I'm Windows" ads. Or maybe -- get this -- Microsoft agreed to do free promotion for HP machines, in return for HP not selling any machines with Linux preinstalled.
Yes, but the OS that Apple makes is tied to their hardware. It's irrelevant whether MS makes hardware or not, any Mac sold is a tiny bite out of Windows' market share, unless the user goes out and buys a copy of Windows to use with BootCamp.
Right. But was the BMW built in Germany by high-paid German factory workers? Yes. Does it have a Ford engine? No. And since a Mac doesn't have any special, magical parts but rather a standard PC processor, a PC hard drive, a PC optical drive, PC RAM and so forth, and they're built in China with their dirt-cheap labor and sometimes by the same companies that make PCs (such as ASUS/Asutek), your analogy would be closer to the truth if you took two identical Fords, painted one of them with aluminium color and put a BMW badge on it, and then say you want 27000€ for the Ford and 40000€ for the "BMW" Ford.