Because opinions are the new evidence dude. Look bro, my homie, my ace, this ain't court. No one's gonna win jack ****.
I say Acer is the greatest laptop EVER and it is. You know why it is, my home skillet? I'll tell you why...
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Microsoft Releases Second 'Laptop Hunters' Commercial
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Because opinions are the new evidence dude. Look bro, my homie, my ace, this ain't court. No one's gonna win jack ****.
I say Acer is the greatest laptop EVER and it is. You know why it is, my home skillet? I'll tell you why...
haha. the whole thread reminds me so much of the 90´s when the actual bashing was going on. though this is a lame shadow of it 
which again reminds me of that ms ad campaign. but well. that seem to be the signs of the times. after all a new windows version is coming up duck and cover boys and girls. duck and cover
which again reminds me of that ms ad campaign. but well. that seem to be the signs of the times. after all a new windows version is coming up duck and cover boys and girls. duck and cover
haha. the whole thread reminds me so much of the 90´s when the actual bashing was going on. though this is a lame shadow of it
7 up - watch it fizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Only fans of cheap Chinese players ever complained about iPod prices.
Other players generally start out with prices similar to Apples and go down from there.
You really think Microsoft really cares about how much money Apple makes on one system sold when Microsoft's OS is on more than ten times as many units? You really think Microsoft cares that Apple makes a bit more of a profit on one system than MS does on their OS, when, in the short time Vista has been available, more than 10 as many people are using it than there are Mac users total? Not to mention the tens of millions of units XP still sells, on top of other Microsoft software, like Office.
You see, theres one big flaw with your argument. You're part of an extremely vocal, yet extremely small minority. You seem to forget that what you and other people in your small minority say on message boards such as theses does not reflect how people in the real world, or even at more populated forums think. Honestly, if you tried your anti-Microsoft speech over at a forum like AVS, Head-fi, Futuremark, or other places populated with knowledgeable people and those who reflect real world users, you'd get laughed off about as fast as you started posting.
You seem to forget that Apple plays itself off as a vanity brand. As part of that, Apple ignores virtually every emerging market, where all of the true "future customers" are and Microsoft is already in deep in those markets and doing everything they can to make sure their platform is the dominant one. Yet Apple avoids those markets because those customers can't afford to pay their prices and have no interest in vanity computers anyway.
You speak of "kids" as being "future customers".. But you're forgetting something. These so-called "kids" like to play games. What platform let's them play games? Ah, Windows. Some of these people might buy into the fact that Macs can run Windows. But what happens when they see their friend's $1,299 Asus running circles around the MacBook Pro they just bought that cost twice as much? Thats right, they're going to switch back to Windows.
What about "real" people who are currently customers? Even if they feel Apple is superior, they refuse to spend so much money on a computer. My sister is a good case in point argument here. She needed a new computer. Could have afford any Mac up to $2,000. What'd she buy? A full computer set that was on sale at Walmart during Black Friday a year ago and upgraded the RAM. I asked her why she didn't get a Mac. "This computer does everything I need it and cost more than $1,000 less than the Mac I would have bought."
No matter what Apple or the Apple fanboys say, money talks.
Again, you and the rest of the anti-MS crowd are a very small and overly vocal minority. If everything your crowd said was to be believed, Vista would take 30 minutes to boot every time, crash multiple times daily, get viruses by simply opening a browser, and throw up blue screens left and right. Not only that, but nobody would own an Xbox360 (current true "next generation" market leader), and Apple's sales would be through the roof. In reality though, sales of Microsoft products and products that ship with/rely on Microsoft are going up steadily and projected to grow even more, by the hundreds of millions as the next few years pass. All while Apple's marketshare is in the very low single digits worldwide and very unreliable in the US as far as growth goes. Sometimes it grows good, sometimes it shrinks just as much.
Oh yes, Microsoft's followers are "desperate". Thats why nobody said a peep about Apple's misleading and outright false "Get a Mac" campaign, yet when Microsoft airs ads that are completely and brutally honest about Apple's pricing, Apple fanboys are out in full force on every forum they can be on, spreading FUD about Microsoft. The only time you see Microsoft followers out is when the Apple fanboys are out spreading FUD. Microsoft users are out quashing the lies and making sure the truth is known, to control the Apple fanboy FUD rampages.
It is hilarious that you say Microsoft and the Microsoft "followers" are getting desperate though. That Microsoft's "Empire" will fall. I hate to break it to you, but Apple's marketshare worldwide is what? It's between 2.4% to 3% depending on which numbers you go buy. Likewise, Microsoft's marketshare is what worldwide? Roughly 90% depending on the numbers you read. Yeah, think about that for a minute. You're looking at 3% versus 90%. Thats sort of like a small ant going up against a human wearing shoes. Who do you think will prevail?
I also want to point out the fact that the whole "Macs in schools mean future Mac users!" argument doesn't work. I had Macs all throughout elementary, middle, and high school. I didn't buy my own Mac until I had been out of high school for many years. Not only that, but what do those in school do? They use a Mac at school and go home to a PC. And contrary to popular belief, most kids don't like school and things associated with school are bad in their eyes. Think about that too.
What decline? Sales of computers running Windows are UP worldwide. Especially in emerging markets that Apple has chosen to outright ignore.
How so? OpenCL? Similar technology already exists in Windows, OpenCL is cross-platform, and MS is building similar technology into DirectX.
"Grand Central"? All that does is make it easier for incompetent developers to write multi-threaded apps. Don't forget that Windows had multi-core/processor support BEFORE Mac OS did, and that multiple processors have been standard fare in Windows PCs for awhile, not just the "high end" market either. Plus multi-processor systems were very easily available in the 90s.
Maybe because the Core 2 Duo at 3.06GHz, even the mobile version, is considerably faster than a PowerPC processor? The power of the PPC line was greatly over exaggerated by Apple and never lived up to the hype it received.
Maybe because most apps are still single threaded? More multi-threaded apps exist in Windows than in OS X. It's a sad thing if OS X developers have to wait for Apple to spoon feed them easy ways to make multi-threaded apps before they actually do it, when Windows developers have been doing it for many years now...
The iMac is poorly priced. It's a "desktop" computer according to Apple. If it were to truly compete against desktops, it would not be able to stand up against PCs costing half as much that are more than twice as powerful with better screens.
Actually, no. Don't take what I said out of context. The comments were made that when you call AppleCare you get someone in the US who speaks fluent English. I made the point that half of the time I've called AppleCare, I've spoken to someone with a very thick accent that was obviously not a US native which made me question who they hired.
Some, not all. And many of the posts in this thread by the Apple fanboys prove that point.
You know, its funny you say "without a scrap of evidence" when you yourself posted in my thread where I posted pictures of my MacBook that had cracked due to poor build quality.
No, I pointed out the FACT that Apple's computers are largely sold to a small and loyal fanbase that will say they are happy regardless of the situation. I also pointed out the numerous posts at this very forum that back up that statement. Go ahead and look for yourself. You'll find plenty of people here who are still satisfied with Apple despite the fact that they had to send their system in for repairs multiple times in a row. You'll find posters who had to have the motherboards in their Macs replaced numerous times and Apple never offered a replacement system. Yet those posters are still satisfied with Apple because its Apple and not running Windows.
Apple leads customer satisfaction because of the comparatively small user base that is incredibly loyal. You have to keep in mind that Dell or HP sell more computers in one year than Apple has total users. When you're selling so many more products you're bound to run into more unhappy people. Plus with PCs you don't have the loyalty to brand that you have with Apple. If HP treats someone the way Apple treats a loyal customer, that person that was treated poorly by HP is going to go off and rant to as many people as possible. While that Apple customer is still going to follow the Apple crowd and proclaim their happiness, despite the poor treatment, because it's Apple and Apple is simply better!
A single experience huh? Thats funny, because I thought I was on my THIRD Mac now due to Apple's poor build quality and I had used multiple versions of OS X in the course of my owning a Mac. On top of that, all but now ONE of the Mac users I've known over the years has switched back to Windows.
Again, its funny you say "unsubstantiated" because you yourself saw the pictures of my MacBook suffering from Apple's poor build quality. And, again, everything I've said about Apple's build quality, Apple's customer loyalty, etc. can be backed up by reading posts at this forum.
Why did I keep my Mac? Well, because people online who wanted to buy it wanted me to send it out COD. Hah! Locally, the economy has gone to hell and nobody in Southern California, in their right mind, would buy a used system at the price that Apple fans think its worth. And I sure wasn't going to lose money when I felt that the experience I had was not even partially worth the $1406 the first purchase had originally cost me. The only way I'll part with it is if A) I get a good price on a used sale or B) I keep it and run it into the ground, which is probably what I'll do. I probably won't upgrade to Snow Leopard. But you can bet that I'll have Windows 7 on it. XP is already my default OS on this system.
I guess my question in all of this is, if Microsoft is so bad then why do folks here support them?
Everyone that buys Snow Leopard and/or iPhone (iPod Touch) is basically supporting the thing they hate. Microsoft doesn't just give out ActiveSync for free...
Nor do they just give out Exchange licenses for free...
Everyone that buys Snow Leopard and/or iPhone (iPod Touch) is basically supporting the thing they hate. Microsoft doesn't just give out ActiveSync for free...
Nor do they just give out Exchange licenses for free...
In honor of Mosx, I'll do his favorite posting style: The Multi-Quote
Please don't confuse customer satisfaction studies with fact! Mosx had 2 broken laptops! 2 > *
Apple fanboyism is Apple fanboyism. Microsoft fanboyism is defending the faith against evildoers spreading FUD.
And didn't ya know? We're done with facts and truth on this board. Instead we'll be using opinions and personal anecdotes (however severely limited) as their replacements. Don't worry, we'll still call them facts and truth, so as not to confuse the general population.
And you don't think our dear friend would stop coming here if he no longer had a Mac, do you? Of course he would! He's got to fight the good fight!
Please don't confuse customer satisfaction studies with fact! Mosx had 2 broken laptops! 2 > *
Apple fanboyism is Apple fanboyism. Microsoft fanboyism is defending the faith against evildoers spreading FUD.
And didn't ya know? We're done with facts and truth on this board. Instead we'll be using opinions and personal anecdotes (however severely limited) as their replacements. Don't worry, we'll still call them facts and truth, so as not to confuse the general population.
And you don't think our dear friend would stop coming here if he no longer had a Mac, do you? Of course he would! He's got to fight the good fight!
Just this comment here shows your complete lack of knowledge about the POWER architecture and what it is used for. You think those kid toys that are the consoles are the only thing using it ? No, they're simply used to offer volume and lower R&D margins on shipped processors.
The POWER architecture is used today in most big computation solutions, in scientific arenas. It is perfect for that task, moreso than ia-32 and x86-64. If you really think Athlon's are the pinacle of processor design and power, you're again just spouting anecdotes and opinion as fact, which is why you are labelled a troll around these parts.
Go to ibm.com and read up on POWER.
Heck, from the invasion of Microsofties we've had since these commercial started to air, you'd think Microsoft was trying to turn this site into MSrumors. Anyway, that's what these guys are peddling, a rumor that Microsoft is good and that they make good products.
Don't think it can't happen, it happened to Slashdot! You can't even begin to discuss anything about Linux there anymore, even in stories about Linux, without some trolls showing up to remind everyone how much better Vista is than Linux, completely ignoring the fact that no one was even remotely talking about consumer desktop OSes before they came.
Egads...miss a couple of days and BOOM! 50 more pages.
The problem is that all weights are relative ... to each other. 6lbs is less than 7lbs and is thus 'more portable'.
Ditto for battery life: when all other factors are equal, "more is better".
Personally, I was on two 5hr coast-to-coast flights last week, so a ~2.5hr battery life would have only lasted for half of each flight, which hinders utility/productivity. Also, those battery life ratings are the 'brand new' ones: what do you think its battery life is really going to be a year from now?
With the US Military, there's a saying:
"80lbs of lightweight gear is still 80lbs"
And they're currently spending Billions of your taxpayer dollars trying to shave 10lbs off of that. What do they know that you don't?
-hh
The problem is that all weights are relative ... to each other. 6lbs is less than 7lbs and is thus 'more portable'.
Ditto for battery life: when all other factors are equal, "more is better".
Personally, I was on two 5hr coast-to-coast flights last week, so a ~2.5hr battery life would have only lasted for half of each flight, which hinders utility/productivity. Also, those battery life ratings are the 'brand new' ones: what do you think its battery life is really going to be a year from now?
With the US Military, there's a saying:
"80lbs of lightweight gear is still 80lbs"
And they're currently spending Billions of your taxpayer dollars trying to shave 10lbs off of that. What do they know that you don't?
-hh
Fundamentally, the pattern seems to be that their experience with Windows has been so unsatisfactory that they've gotten fed up with it, and they're willing to pay to get away from it. As such, the first tier of Mac customers aren't really desiring Macs, but are desiring a "Not Windows" product.
Since when have new features ever been delivered to all OS platforms simultaneously?
The reality is that leapfrogging occurs constantly: for example, Apple just got the new Xeon chips out to market before any Windows PC manufacturers did.
Mac Photoshop CS5 is expected to have 64 bit and is expected in early '10, which means that Adobe will have 6-9 months after Snow Leopard goes golden master to work out any remaining bugs...and probably some OpenCL goodness. Thus it will be Adobe/Mac's turn to be ahead for awhile in the leapfrog game...won't last forever, since it never does.
Glad you mentioned this, although the individuals who really need to read it probably still won't (I've mentioned Schwartz's book before).
He might not have, but I did. And the business case has all been outlined before; check the archives (you'll even find your comments on them, too):
In brief summary, 70% of Mac sales are laptops (and growing).
Apple is merely ahead of where the rest of the PC market is going: in December 2008, it was reported that Windows has now also crossed the "50% laptops" threshold.
For Apple, the remaining 30% is divided amongst its desktop line, which consists of the mini, the 20" iMac, the 24" iMac, and the Mac Pro....evenly split at 1/4 each, this means each gets only 7.5% of all Mac sales.
Adding a 5th desktop (xMac) will result in some new sales but also some cannibalization of sales. Assuming even splits still and only 50% cannibalization, it means that the current 4 models will suffer a 10% drop in sales as it makes room for the xMac, which will increase their manufacturing cost by 5%, which has to either be eaten by a decrease in profitability or an increase in their retail price.
The bump up in sales from the new desktop xMac will provide roughly a 10% gain on desktop sales...which in the bigger picture will probably merely delay the current trend's decline by roughly 2-3 months.
Interesting, but only to a degree: the inference is that the desktop decline is predominantly due to the economy, and while this is projecting a recovery starting in 2010, the key take-away is that in 2013, the sales of desktops will still be 7% lower than 2008...and at the slow 2-3% rate of growth, it will be 2015 or later until it will be back to parity. Unfortunately, the broader reality is that sales projections for this far out are invariably 70% guesswork based on broad assumptions.
And while 130 million does sound promising, that's the worldwide market, whereas Apple's strengths are the USA (and IIRC, Japan): you'll notice that the future projections for desktops in the USA market drop from 34M to 29M in 2009, then continue to decline all the way out through 2013, to 23M ... a 33% decline projection vs 2008 numbers, and a 20% decline below what is expected for 2009.
FWIW, there was also the point that a lack of new models at Apple was responsible for their downturn. Sure, and with the new desktop models in March, we will shortly learn just what the level of significance is of that factor. I got a case of Belgian beer that says that it won't be enough to change the 70%-30% back to a 50%-50% sales equity for even one sales quarter...any takers?
-hh
I might be a bit late, but MS only advertises HP because Dell is known for being disloyal, seen from their famous switch to give users the option for Linux. Sony also happens to be a competitor of MS (XBox vs PS3). Asus and Acer is simply not famous enough for the average joe to recognize.
... It seems that MS is running out of "loyal" manufacturers...
"Invasion", sure. Why it's a veritable stampede!
I count two dual-platform users who defend Windows to (X) degree... mosx and yours truly. That's, what, a ratio of 100:1? 200:1?
We can't really help that this is a sensitive stuff to the Mac faithful, that these MS ads represent to them what the Muhammad drawings represented to Muslims.
Let's look at number of posts instead of just number of trolls. What's the Pro-Microsoft to Pro-Apple post ratio in this thread ? You having the highest number of posts by quite a margin...
And how many HP, Dell and Sony all-in-ones have you seen in the wild?
The difference is that other vendors add an all-in-one to the lineup for the minority of customers who might like them - not because of an almost religious zeal that an all-in-one is the right form factor for a desktop.
Sony's an odd case, but they're mainly a consumer gadget manufacturer, not a computer maker. (Hmmm. See the parallel?)
well the thread started with people talking about the spot being bad at best, not about what you or anyone should use. and if there are people wo like this style of advertising i guess they get what they deserve. some forum marketing guys (and the people unconsciously following their lead) using these forums as an advertising forum is a completely different matter. and actually bad style advertising from a moral point of view (and no i don´t want to start a thread on advertising ethics) besides just wasting time since the people here actually use these machines. and i like many others have a far better experience than i ever had on a microsoft os. that´s no religion. that´s just fact. and being atheist the whole mac religion stuff makes me rofl either way. i´d say if you don´t like osx. start winrumors. i have nothing about a debate. but this is ridiculous and this thread has already moved from comparing apples to rotten tomatoes to car/truck analogies... seems like the .net worshippers are the religious ones
edit: and no. no punch to any believer out there intended.
edit: and no. no punch to any believer out there intended.
I was forgetting his single user experience of 2 damaged laptops proves his point. And because I saw the pictures of one of them - even more proves his point. Not forgetting all customers of Apple instantly become fanboys on buying Macs, although that doesn't explain why the beloved HP is loosing ratings points.
Of course not - I just wish I had as much time as him to write such epic replies. I did have enough time however to find this totally biased poll that rated HP extremely badly. Its all lies of course.
Attachments
And Compaq introduced DVD burners a week before Apple. Big deal.
Other than fueling the vanity of the Apple Cult, there's no real advantage to Apple getting chip X announced a couple of weeks before other makers.
Intel's chip was known - it was reviewed in many places, it was known that the last week in March was the formal announcement, and the single socket version of the chip (Core i7) was already available from other companies.
A couple of weeks isn't a "leapfrog", it's a rounding error.
"Ahead". Don't you mean that Apple will stop being behind?
Unlike a few weeks head start with a chip, Apple will be a year and a half behind on 64-bit.
And, as far as the OpenCL hype goes, you did realize that Photoshop, Premiere and AfterEffects are *already* GPU-accelerated on Windows?
http://www.nvidia.com/object/builtforadobepros.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_home.html
Please cite your sources for these statistics.
Pure fiction.
More speculation.
Whatever gave you the idea that "success" of the Apple quad-core mini-tower means a return to a 50-50 split?
It goes back to the swings/carousels concept from Sweden(Anuba). Many people are not switching because none of the desktops are practical for them. Give them an affordable mini-tower, and over time they'll probably buy Apple laptops and laptops-on-a-stick.
It's the mini-tower Halo effect.
If you count pro Microsoft as what, anything that doesn't paint Apple as a perfect Godlike entity that knows what's good for everyone and is incapable of making mistakes. Apple is a great company, but they have many flaws and biases. Their product lineup has many holes because of those biases and flaws that Microsoft is taking advantage of. Those of us who view our Macs as a tool and not as part of some Holy War against everything non-Apple can see that. They're doing good, but they could be doing better.
And you guys saying Apple will die if they don't sell you a xMac aren't spouting pure fiction and speculation. You saying the iMac isn't a huge sales success and that people don't want or buy all-in-ones isn't speculation.
It's funny how you guys are allowed to spout your opinions as fact, but that is not allowed of people that disagree with you
.Or they could be doing worse. There's a reason some of the guys in this thread that criticize Apple are doing it from their homes and not from the board room.
One doesn't typically see a desktop computer "in the wild." And I don't wander though strangers' homes to check out their PC setups very often.
Oh, and guess how many Zunes I've seen in the wild? ONE. Yet Microsoft keeps making them. And trying to sell them.
So what you're saying is, your mission is to stop people from buying Macs and steer them towards Windows. This is fascinating, for the same reason that the MS commercials are.
5 years ago any employee of Microsoft would have laughed at the thought of Apple being a threat, or even a competitor. Apple was nothing more than a tiny 2% market share player that wouldn't even license its OS to any other manufacturer. No threat at all.
I can't really see what's changed. Sure, Apple's market share has increased slightly, but not a lot. Why is MS suddenly making commercials like this, backed by legions of people like you? I would have thought Linux is more of a threat. It would only take a great marketeer like Jobs to come along with a polished distro. The world is ready to give up Microsoft.
Maybe its just that they're running scared and are trying to fight fires from all angles, because Vista is such a disaster.
That one has been covered 10 times over on this discussion so I'm not going to dwell on it. Take out the word "don't" and you've pretty much answered your own question.
Definitely worth it to me, and seemingly to a lot of other people too, or you wouldn't be concerned with trying to tell people it isn't. My brand new MacBook Pro 17" running Leopard is putting a big smile on my face. (That smug Mac person's smile you really hate).
That is such utter crap, I don't know where to begin. My 2.5 year old MBP is on eBay at the moment, and its doing very nicely thank you, despite the recession. Lots of watchers, bids already. My friend sold his MB last week and was stunned by the price he got. His iMac is currently listed and is looking like it will exceed his expectations.
You may not like it, but there are lots of people out there who aspire to own a Mac, and there always will be. It is a "vanity brand" as you point out, and in two years time when I sell my new MPB, there will be no shortage of takers.
Good, I hope it does. I want Apple to remain a profitable and financially healthy company, but I don't want them to increase their market share, because in order to do that they'd have to go for the high volume, low cost end of the market and build boring business boxes. And then they'd stop being the Apple I know and love.
Yes, they are a business run by greedy execs. Just like any other. I'm under no illusion.
Your moronic generalizations reveal you for the bitter troll that you are.
But keep on fueling the Waah-I-Hate-Apple Cult (or the Sweaty Ballmer Is God Cult). It's your time. I suppose one has little else to do while his PC is busy running a spyware scan.
The poll is probably not that far from the truth, although brand perception can sometimes screw up these reliability polls. Apple is like BMW, it's one of those brands that give some people a boner (which doesn't happen with HP or Toyota, as they make very unsexy products for the most part). And so there's a tendency to forgive and smooth over faults, just like some men will gladly smooth over a drop-dead gorgeous woman's complete absence of a brain.
BMW ranks very highly in satisfaction and reliability ratings, although they're actually quite mediocre reliability-wise and no match for Toyota. But some BMW owners will still insist that the reliability is great even after the wheels fall off and the engine explodes.
So, I would take these polls with a grain of salt. Not the whole salt shaker, but a grain.