Apparently you haven't noticed how many times any timing advantage that Apple gets is brought up in these boards....
And, I used "Cult" rather than "fanbois" - do you prefer "fanbois"?
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Microsoft Releases Second 'Laptop Hunters' Commercial
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Apparently you haven't noticed how many times any timing advantage that Apple gets is brought up in these boards....
And, I used "Cult" rather than "fanbois" - do you prefer "fanbois"?
Of course the poll wasn't about reliability, it was about build quality. Fit and finish on a BMW is spotless usually, not so much on a Toyota. Cheap plastics, rough edges, apparent welds, cheaper paint, no finishing trims.
Apparently you haven't noticed how many times any timing advantage that Apple gets is brought up in these boards....
And, I used "Cult" rather than "fanbois" - do you prefer "fanbois"?
How about neither ? At this point, everybody that's still posting here is a fanboy of something or another. It's a useless insult thrown around in order to try to descredit the other camp. In a way, you're a midrange tower fanboy and you can't see that maybe, just maybe, those don't sell well anymore.
It's like you're in this xMac cult...
It must drive some of these tools nuts that people spend good money on, say, a pair of jeans or a nice watch when a burlap sack and a sundial made from a stick in the dirt would do the job just fine.
It's hilarious that of all the manufacturers who make products for people to buy, even upscale products that are even more expensive, that it's Apple that earns the derision of these joyless two-bit hacks. Wouldn't you just love to wander through Anubus' or AidenShaw's place and point things out? I'm assuming their closets aren't filled with burlap and their cabinets aren't filled with Top Ramen.
"Wow, why did you buy that? You know you could have bought X brand cheaper, right?"
"Steaks in the refrigerator? Seriously??? Hamburger is, like, 1/6 the cost. What are you, a member of the Steak Cult? Idiot."
Sounds stupid, doesn't it. Yet here they are. Trying to derive some dollop of pleasure from doing exactly the same thing. I bet they're a real hit at parties.
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Hmm, I suddenly have an ad idea for the Grade D Hamburger Manufacturers Association of America. "We gave Lauren $1 to buy lunch..."
It's hilarious that of all the manufacturers who make products for people to buy, even upscale products that are even more expensive, that it's Apple that earns the derision of these joyless two-bit hacks. Wouldn't you just love to wander through Anubus' or AidenShaw's place and point things out? I'm assuming their closets aren't filled with burlap and their cabinets aren't filled with Top Ramen.
"Wow, why did you buy that? You know you could have bought X brand cheaper, right?"
"Steaks in the refrigerator? Seriously??? Hamburger is, like, 1/6 the cost. What are you, a member of the Steak Cult? Idiot."
Sounds stupid, doesn't it. Yet here they are. Trying to derive some dollop of pleasure from doing exactly the same thing. I bet they're a real hit at parties.
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Hmm, I suddenly have an ad idea for the Grade D Hamburger Manufacturers Association of America. "We gave Lauren $1 to buy lunch..."
Meh, these ads don't bother me.
If you want a windows machine, get one, if you want a Mac, get one. Don't moan about the price or whatever, you get what you pay for.
Personally, I've used loads of PC's over the past 7 years, and none of them come even close to how reliable my MacBook is, i won't go in detail but many of you know what i mean.
Mac's > PC's
although, i have to say, with this much attention these adverts are doing there job pretty well.
If you want a windows machine, get one, if you want a Mac, get one. Don't moan about the price or whatever, you get what you pay for.
Personally, I've used loads of PC's over the past 7 years, and none of them come even close to how reliable my MacBook is, i won't go in detail but many of you know what i mean.
Mac's > PC's
although, i have to say, with this much attention these adverts are doing there job pretty well.
Which I'm sure happens all the time.
Seriously, man. We understand that you're bitter. Windows will do that to you. Step outside. Get a breath of fresh air. Go for a drive in your Corolla. Relieve some of that anxiety while you wait for the Redmond horde to figure things out. Windows 7 will fix everything. Just hold on...
Actually, I see these "but you can get X for cheaper" posts as just trying to push your own needs unto someone elses. Mosx obviously loves hand built, spare parts bin PCs on the cheap. He doesn't care about spending an afternoon trying to track down the exact part that just failed in order to RMA it to one of 10 different manufacturers that participated in his box. It is folly to think someone would rather just have to deal with 1 manufacturer who will do it all for free under warranty because he sold the entire thing to you. Time is of no value to this man and thus shouldn't be of value to anyone else.
Then there's the aidenshaw that insists people need a mid-range tower at all costs, that laptops or high-end workstations can't replace the mid-range tower and that it is a gaping hole. He ignores the fact that some people don't even have a desk and wouldn't know what to do with a fixed computer, or that the high-end workstation can still double as a e-mail/web/office machine.
Then there's Anuba, who basically.. hum... I don't quite get this guy. First it was 1999 ads in relation to a 2005 announcements. Because things don't change in 6 years. Then there's the "fact" that Apple doesn't ship you a box to return your Mac to Applecare, because he didn't get one after talking to 1 person, vs 300 other forum posters assuring him of the contrary. Finally, he goes on to say that yes, there are other things than raw power in life, it is the mid-range tower, but he doesn't need it, but Apple should sell it, because he doesn't need it.
...
And we're the fanboys and cult.
hmm actually i think they don´t (the ads). if there were over 2k posts talking about the and i´d give credit to the agency which made them. but this is a general mac vs. pc debate (and no debate since it´s pointless in the first place) but since most agencies love to present the steaming results their campaigns achieved this thread will be pushed on to eternity until the magic number of 3k posts (someeone said that number earlier) is reached so it can be put in a snug powerpoint presentation so the client will be happy to give them more money to make ads but since i don´t fund ms i don´t care.
but since i don´t fund ms i don´t care.
Which I'm sure happens all the time.
Seriously, man. We understand that you're bitter. Windows will do that to you. Step outside. Get a breath of fresh air. Go for a drive in your Corolla. Relieve some of that anxiety while you wait for the Redmond horde to figure things out. Windows 7 will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows 95 will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows 95 OSRB will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows 98 will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows 98 SE will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows ME will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows NT 4.0 will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows 2000 will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows XP will fix everything. Just hold on...
Windows Vista will fix everything and look pretty while doing it this time, honest. Just hold on...
It's the same BS story everytime there's a BETA release. All the MS fanbots are all over the thing, scream at how it's : stable, fast, slim, awesome looking. Then it ships... I've been stuck listening to them for the last 15 years. Heck, I was one of them, having participated in the Windows 98 Beta and finding it awesome. Funny how that turned out.
A) nobody has disputed that people will buy all in ones. They are great consumer machines, but they have their uses.
B) Apple desktop sales have degraded at a rate far beyond windows machines
C) Apple stopped reporting individual model sales a couple years back so its now impossible to know how a specific model is doing.
D) Towers did well not too long again against the predecessor to the current iMac which was comparatively more powerful and much easier to upgrade than the sealed laptop on a stick we have now.
It's funny how you guys are allowed to spout your opinions as fact, but that is not allowed of people that disagree with you
The difference here is that we recognize the great things Apple has done and what has happened before in similar times. You and your buddies in the unofficial Apple religious police do not allow for anything other than Apple is right good or bad, successful at the time or not.
That is the kind of arrogance that brings down companies and allowed Apple to give back all that they gained during the original iMac boom shortly after. What do I see: a company who is hugely popular, dominating the PMP market (of which their entires have no holes) who can barely manage 10% of the U.S. market and 4% internationally. Given the popularity, this isn't a success, this is scrapping along bare minimum compared to what they could do.
Actually, yes Aidenshaw did. 1 or 2 pages back. Hence why I commented on it.
Also note I don't defend Apple. I'm just saying that you guys want them to ship something, but they don't. They did before and decided not to. I'm just pointing out to you guys that there might be a reason that you backseat Marketers are missing and should probably think about. If that is Apple fanboyism, then so be it. I live in reality, and in reality, Apple dropped the mid-range tower market like a bad habit.
Also you might find it arrogant, but it's the same thing as fat slobs in their couch that are always criticizing the coach of their favorite sports franchise. Guess what, those guys wouldn't last 2 seconds as coaches. Same for the people in this thread, they probably wouldn't understand or be able to run niche business like Apple does and would probably be making a lot of the mistakes Apple already made and learned from long ago.
That's the problem with these arguments, they get polarised fast and people not in one camp get automatically thrown into the other, no matter where they actually sit as far as opinions go.
Apple stopped selling them when they were selling, just like the eMac, the low end iMac, and the big screen iBook. The big difference between us and you is that we want Apple to do better. You're absolutely terrified of anything other than what Apple is doing at one minute. I'm guessing you're one of those who argued against the move to intel, the iPhone, the Macbook Air, etc. (which doesn't have a largest enough market to be worth their while either) until Apple introduced them.
Wait, so you think Apple didn't have Apple's best interest in mind when dropping product lines and models ? So you're saying there's been management and shareholder incompetence and that you are a better fit to manage the company, having better insight ?
Do you also think that changing out that runningback during the last Cowboy's game was a big mistake, even though they did get that touch down ?
I didn't argue anything about the Intel switch, I even e-mailed all my Mac fanboys a big "I told you so". I'm not a super long time, Apple only user. I use Unix and Unix like systems. Mac OS X happens to be one of them. I used to laugh at OS 9 and destroy it every chance I got (yes, it was that bad).
HP and Dell make all-in-ones, yet sales are very low - those companies also make affordable towers (as well as laptops).
The Imac sells well, because there's no practical, affordable alternative.
Microsoft (and its brainwashed followers) have now officially become your grandma.
"You paid how much for that thing??? Are you crazy? Why didn't you buy X instead? It's much more reasonably priced. Or better yet, why didn't you just keep your old one? It worked just fine. Why, when I was a girl..."
I'm a PC. Now get off my lawn, you damn kids with your stupid overpriced sneakers...
"You paid how much for that thing??? Are you crazy? Why didn't you buy X instead? It's much more reasonably priced. Or better yet, why didn't you just keep your old one? It worked just fine. Why, when I was a girl..."
I'm a PC. Now get off my lawn, you damn kids with your stupid overpriced sneakers...
the funny thing is , i might be called a fanboy by some. but i´d never ever think about going to a ms fan site and try to convince people of my os being superior to theirs. or anything equivalent. actually that´s a brand new level of fanboyism. or fanatism ?
Again, you're ignoring the fact that for a long time (years) Apple sold the iMac and the cheap PowerMAC G3, then G4, then G5 at the same time.
Shill is what it's called :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill
The question is who definition of best interest?
All of them were hand picked by Jobs.
No, but someone else might be. Doesn't take a genius to recognize what Apple's doing right, but apparently it takes something extra these days to figure out they are incapable of doing something wrong. I would prefer it happens before we hand Redmond everything right back once again. Apple needs to take that next step for once instead of the usual cycle of success, arrogance, giving everything back, and hard times.
And you're ignoring that they dumped the affordable towers because they were outselling the iMac
That would be shareholder and management incompetence. I doubt a business would drop a successful and profitable product line to promote a less successful or profitable one. Apple is publicly traded and as such, must answer to shareholders and the SEC.
Ok, so now Apple's mid-range offerings weren't cheap enough for you ? Are you sure you don't want a low-end tower too ?
Exactly. Which pretty much mirrors my experience with Dell vs. Apple. With Dell's consumer models you get cheap plastic, rough edges, and design that's somewhere between ugly and unremarkable, but for some inexplicable reason it all holds together fine. Macs on the other hand have perfect and spotless fit & finish, but then after some time you start reading stuff like...
It's understandable though. Toyota Corolla is the best-selling car in history. When you sell in numbers like that it's much easier to detect reliability issues and address them. And there's also a greater chance that the manufacturer works his butt off to not allow any potential reliability issues in the first place, because it's one thing to do a recall of, say, 50,000 cars and a whole other story to have to recall 5,000,000 of them.
Hmm, my old Compaq laptop was a huge POS, but I don't remember reading any news stories about its flaws. How odd. Perhaps Mac buyers expect more and complain more loudly when those expectations are not met? Or maybe PCs are spread among such a huge range of makes and models that it's unlikely that any common flaw in any one model is going to get any significant attention? And perhaps Apple haters tend to focus a white hot spotlight on anything that validates their fear and loathing of all things from Cupertino?
The correct answer is D) All of the above.
Oh, BTW: reliability and customer satisfaction survey numbers seem to disprove your theory of Apple's mediocre hardware quality...
The answer is clear. We should all be driving Corollas.
I've been critical of you in the past, but I agree with your post here.
I think being critical of Apple doesn't equal being pro-Microsoft, however continual bashing of OS X with anecdotal evidence based on 3 machines is ridiculous.
Then to say there's nothing wrong at all with Vista, and even that there was nothing wrong with Me, and you've got a diehard MS shill.
I agree with you that there are gaping holes in their product line-up, however while I remain cautiously optimistic, I doubt Apple will ever fill them.
Where is your proof of this?
Because Apple has never released figures of "affordable" tower units shipped vs. iMacs. They have always lumped all the towers together, which includes the "less affordable" towers. Product Summary names have included "Power Mac G4" and "Power Mac" but never have separated models within those lines. And then for Q3 2005, they started breaking it down to just "Desktops" and "Portables".
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q301data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q401data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q102data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q202data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q302data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q402data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q103data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q203data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q303data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q403data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q104data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q204data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q304data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q404data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q105data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q205data_sum.pdf
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q305data_sum.pdf
You are asking why is Apple doing this but then not looking at it like Apple does. you want an answer coming from the viewpoint of someone that is a techno geek. a user that wants what he wants, the way he wants it, the price and parts he wants. that is NOT the person that the macbook, the mini or the imac was made for. You are who the Mac Pro is for, and maybe the MacBookPro (which has a few more upgrades than the Macbook if you order online)
The other 3 are for the regular user. The folks that don't need superfast, hyper charged graphics etc. Why has Apple downgraded the graphics in the mini and the imac you asked. because they weren't being used. I will bet my rent money for the month (and I live in LA so that's not chup change) that 95% of 20" and lower end 24" imacs have been going to folks that wanted to email, web surf, maybe use the webcam to talk to family, organize photos and sync my ipod. and perhaps some grade school lab leases. and that's pretty much it. the software, or lack of, bought with the machine, surveys done on buyers etc would tell them this. so Apple pulls back the parts cause the more expensive ones are needed. in some cases, ups the harddrive size or some other tradeoff. in others just adds the savings into the profit till (what you didn't know that Apple is trying to make lots of money. like every other business)
when you try to look at it from Apple's POV a lot of what they do makes a lot more sense. The power users are the ones that would build a hackintosh and not care that it's totally illegal and a violation of the EULA. but so long as they are doing it for personal use and not to make tons of money, Apple isn't likely to bark. it's only when folks like Pystar build a whole company out of it that it's an issue. So given this detail, why should they market everything to the power users. why should they strive to make that small group happy and maintain a tiny cut of the market when they can look to the other 98% of the folks out there. the ones that will buy into the fact that there's more to the cost than just the computers innards and buy a laptop for $1300 + tax to do basic tasks and let the kiddies play a few games.
Nah.. if it did work on them, Apple's US marketshare wouldn't have shrunk last quarter and it wouldn't be in the low single digits worldwide
last report I saw was that the world market share was just under 10% and had gone down perhaps 1/2 of a percent.
why don't you illuminate us with a full time line of the numbers (with sources would be very nice).
have you ever bought anything at an apple store, had something fixed, taken a class.
I have, or friends have, done all of these. and everything single time either on our paper receipt or on the email one, was an invitation to do a survey about the experience. One friend was really pissed off because he went to a workshop (he had reserved a space so they had his email) and it was just sitting there listening to someone 'blah on and on for an hour' and he said so on the survey. rated the whole thing pretty much a zero. He got a call the next day from the store's head trainer. Said she was real nice and listened to everything he had to say. Gave him an email address for the store and asked him to email her at that address if he had any other thoughts. This was about six months ago. Well perhaps 3 months later, he got an email from her to let him know that they had had lots of surveys that said the same thing so the company was going to test some new hands on workshops and they were a test store. The trainer personally asked my friend to come to one and let her know if it was an improvement over the other way.
I have had other friends and even myself go into stores and the staff were rude, too busy chatting with each other, couldn't answer what should have been a basic question and didn't even try to get the answer. Every time did the survey. every time got a call (not an email but a phone call) from the store in question.
you try that at Best Buy. You can hardly get a manager to come talk when you are there. And if you file a complaint you don't get a call back from the store in question, you rarely get anything.