Microsoft Releases Second 'Laptop Hunters' Commercial

[pr5owner]

okay okay, i got it..........

Apple = Rolex Watches
PC's = Citizen Watches

Lets compare

Rolex Oyster Peretual

What do you get?

Decent craftsmanship
automatic movement
poor accuracy (even with COSC certification its still like 6 seconds off a day)
automatic calender
sapphire crystal
stainless steel case and bracelet (can get the crap scratched out of it)
complications (date)

Price = Around the $5000 mark, depends if you get gold trim or not


Citizen Attessa W/ DLC

Quality Craftsmanship
Solarpowered, never need a battery, lasts 2 years in the dark
100% accuracy (automatic time sync with atomic clock every day, never lose a SINGLE second)
perpetual or automatic calender (sync with atomic clock)
sapphire crystal
titanium Case and bracelet (lighter and just as strong)
DLC Coating (unscratchable, this guy just keyed his own watch!, no problem Link
complications (everything under the sun, timer, stopwatch, date, world time, etc, etc)

Price = $1300 CAD ($999USD i think?)

Rolex, people say it has more class, thats TBD, better resale value,
what do you get? a nice looking watch thats inaccurate and a brand name

Citizen , known for quality since almost all quarts watches have citizen movement, expensive AND cheap models, basically anything that has myota movement is Citizen, an large set of features, will last longer than the rolex due to the DLC (Heatsinked Patriot viper ram lasts longer than apples micron value ram)

 

[dejo]

okay okay, i got it..........

Apple = Rolex Watches
PC's = Citizen Watches

And how much does your custom-built DIY wristwatch cost?

 

[pr5owner]

Ever driven a Ferrari?

There's a hell of a lot more to the whole experience than numbers on paper. I'm not just talking about the brand name either. I mean the 'wow' factor that can't be quantified - that the Evo, great though it is, just can't quite match.

A better comparison with Apple would have been Porsche, because like Apple, they build desirable machines that give you a fabulous user experience and they also build cheaper, lower performance models that you still want to own even though they're outperformed on paper by cheaper competition. And unlike Ferrari, they have good build quality!

yeah you just cant compare computers with cars, it doesnt work.

 

[Schtumple]

In all seriousness, WAKE UP.

First of all, it's more than 3%

I don't care for US market share, you aren't the only country in the world you know

 

[pr5owner]

And how much does your custom-built DIY wristwatch cost?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390040611298

$250 (becuase im not a watch freak like some other ppl on that watch forum) but mine is a pathfinder with

Altimeter + Memory
Barometer
Compass
Temperature sensor
Tide Graph
Moon Phase
Waveceptor (atomic sync)
Titanium case and bracelet
Auto EL

but i also have a breitling, a Skagen, Citizen Calibre 2100, cheap chinese watch that has a cool clear/black alternating face

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrA0kR7YQiw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI1A0cbWTfw

 

[Rob0711]

i wonder why the ms fanboys (from whom i still can´t understand why they waste their time here, unless they only live to entertain us) always have to use games and performance together. heck one post even said grandmas don´t play games (which with our newfound analogy for that type of poster sounds really funny) but do you guys really know that there are people out there who actually work with their machines ? i doubt my boss´d like me tuning my computer or my car all day ? sure the liquid nitrogenium cooled super overclocked beast might be the fastest thing you can get playing your games. but i can´t live with a machine crashing during the night or the day (sure all computers crash. but there are differences in that big ones). although as entertaining as it is i still can´t see any point in your guys mindless bashing. but if you like to actually one should start a winrumors site would be a great place for all the people needing help out there

 

[polaris20]

sorry i forgot your mac fans, you have no capability of looking up something yourself.

Had you actually read my posts, you'd know I use all 3 platforms, and have built many, many PCs over the years, just as you have.

do you understand? do you need someone to hold your hand to read through this?

Apparently you do, because you completely missed everything I've said so far.

yes because you choose looks and brand name over functional specs and peformance

Really? how so? Sure I've got a Mac, but I've also got a Thinkpad running Windows, and a custom built server running Xenserver. You'd know that though, had you actually read any posts, or even glanced at my sig.

it still doesnt work though

Ferarri = V8/V12
Lancer = 2.0L Turbo

Apple = low end Core2duo
PC = Core i7s and Phenom IIs

thats like saying 4 is more than 12 (dual core is more than quad core with HT showing up as 8CPU's)

to make it the same it would be
Ferarri 2.0L I4
Lancer V12 Quad Turbo (turbo = overclock)

Have you even driven a Ferrari? Somehow I doubt it.

Anyway, your comparisons of your home built work of art and Apple remain pointless in this thread, as neither Apple nor the ads being discussed are pointed at people like you.

 

[Trajectory]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390040611298

Egad, that's one ugly watch. That explains a lot.

 

[codo]

yes because you choose looks and brand name over functional specs and peformance

PC users choose the latter. however PC users have many looks and can change looks when they feel like (changing cases, etc)

although i think this looks better than a Macpro

Yeah so what if I choose a brand over another? Welcome to capitalism - you'll like it.

Dell is still a brand, my friend. You should source the parts yourself and build it yourself to achieve the true PC you are trying to preach. Heck every Tom, Dick & Harry should. All these mugs around the world paying for other people to design and build stuff for them... They should also write all their own software - that way you can avoid the tiresome position of having to choose one brand of media player, web browser or word processor over another. They should grow all their own vegetables and rear their own cattle too.

Of course any self-built PC would be full of hardware of particular brands (Do I use an ATI or an nVidia graphics card? Crucial or Hynix memory? Intel or MSI motherboard?) so designing and manufacturing your own components will be important too...

The average "PC user" does not "change looks whenever they feel" or ever even look inside the machine - no. They buy a some lump of junk from PC World, use it until it's unbearable or gets a virus they are unable to remove, and move on to their next cheap PC.

And that Dell is quite honestly one of the least aesthetically pleasing objects I have ever been unfortunate enough to gaze upon.

People who can afford to buy luxury goods will - be it a Ralph Lauren sweater, with a manufacturing/design/etc cost of probably less than 10% of the retail value, or an Apple computer (which do not have margins as high as Ralph Lauren polos!). Get real - people like nice things!

 

[pr5owner]

Egad, that's one ugly watch. That explains a lot.

LOL all about looks for apple users, when your outdoors what is a rolex going to do for you?

when you do a little hardcore camping (nothing but a knife and some food after walking for days in a random direction) you arent going to rely on a pretty watch to guide you back to your dropoff point.

i needed a compass and barometer plain and simple
however i did mention i have a brietling as well diffrent watch, diffrent purpose (obviously the Skyland avenger is for dress)

Have you even driven a Ferrari? Somehow I doubt it.

yep, a 355, and i said you cannot compare cars to computers, it simply does not work. that whole post was the prove that comparing cars to computers is a waste of time.

 

[-hh]

And Compaq introduced DVD burners a week before Apple. Big deal.

Yup, "Film at 11" (yawn).

However, I wasn't the one making a big deal out of Photoshop CS4 already being 64 bits under Windows...so go take it up with the poster who was trying to make that a big deal.

Other than fueling the vanity of the Apple Cult, there's no real advantage to Apple getting chip X announced a couple of weeks before other makers.

Agreed again. And now let's try to have the guy who claimed that there was some profoundness of 64 bit Photoshop explain himsef.

A couple of weeks isn't a "leapfrog", it's a rounding error.

And when the feature isn't needed yet for 99% of their users, does that smack of uber goodnesss, or functional irrelevance?

For example, consider the real world value-added for the 128bit ZFS filing system today...hard drives aren't yet even big enough to be limited by 64 bit systems.

Ditto for a Dell PC that can accomodate 150+GB of RAM today. How many buyers are going to sell their house to be able to buy that RAM?

This is part of the nonsense that is repeated in this MS-commercial. Goofball BadHairGuy throws around a few random hardware specs to prove that he can. Want me to throw around useless specs too? Okay...

We can start with my 911's tire pressure. Sounds like a random enough 'technical' specification to me. You can claim that your car's Tire Pressure is higher (or lower) and thus, that somehow means something profound.

Okay, you "win" whatever waving contest we were having. And I'll let you also "win" the race out on the highway too...the State Troopers are using Laser quite a bit lately, so I could use a good 'Rabbit' on the way home tonight. It will work even better if your car is bright red, although the black jeep SUV (the other day) did fine as well.

It doesn't have to be about being the first one to arrive, but how enjoyable the journey was. Grok the analogy?

Please cite your sources for these statistics.

Thank-you, but I decline. This was previously done and previously already commented on, IIRC by you within the past 3 weeks. If it is so blessed important to you to read it again, please go look it up yourself in the Archives.

Pure fiction.

Nevertheless, it stands until someone provide sources that offer a more reasonable alternative.

FYI, you should perhaps note that the xMac was cut a huge break in assuming that its existence would have zero cannibalization of any laptops. Thus, a more reasonable alternative vignette should take this factor into account.

More speculation.

Its a basic business case examination, and as is often typical, the specific numbers aren't anywhere near as important as the overall structure. Feel free to vary the numbers to do a sensitivity analysis: you'll find that the underlying conclusion won't really change.

That overall conclusion is that fragmenting one's product lines in a declining market is not a particularly profitable endeavor to persue.

Whatever gave you the idea that "success" of the Apple quad-core mini-tower means a return to a 50-50 split?

It doesn't have to be 50-50, but currently, there's 5 notebook product tooling lines, so if the desktop line is going to grow to be 5 also, what number makes more sense than 5:5 --> 50%-50%?

And while going from 70-30 to 60-40 would arguably be a "success" for desktops, this occurrence would then require closer examination of segments to ascertain how much of the sales came from laptop cannibalization. In the end, it wouldn't be hitting a "Home Run" but merely a "Double", or maybe just a "Single": there's hopefully going to be an initial surge of demand, but this will invariably dampen out after a few quarters as it reaches steady state.

It goes back to the swings/carousels concept from Sweden(Anuba). Many people are not switching because none of the desktops are practical for them. Give them an affordable mini-tower, and over time they'll probably buy Apple laptops and laptops-on-a-stick.

It's the mini-tower Halo effect.

Won't happen when the cost of entry is the same, plus this misses out because of both on the Pareto Principle and Occam's Razor: the reason why notebook-class powered PCs are so popular today is because they pass the "Good Enough" test. For an iMac and (xMac + monitor) at the same basic price point, a segment won't bother to differentiate based on horsepower or longer term expandability, so they'll choose on asthetics instead...there simply is no "upsell" potential to exploit.

And all of this needs to be balanced back across what the financial implications are of an additional model: it has fixed development costs that have to be paid for somehow: the only way that a 'Halo' works is if it is pure gain with zero downside .... which effectively means that it generally works across product lines (ipod to Mac), and not within.


-hh

 

[Trajectory]

LOL all about looks for apple users, when your outdoors what is a rolex going to do for you?

Outdoors? My watch works just fine outdoors and does everything I need, plus it looks good, too.

You see, just because you drive a Yugo doesn't mean you have to hate on everyone else who drives something else. Stop being a hater.

 

[pr5owner]

i wonder why the ms fanboys (from whom i still can´t understand why they waste their time here, unless they only live to entertain us) always have to use games and performance together. heck one post even said grandmas don´t play games (which with our newfound analogy for that type of poster sounds really funny) but do you guys really know that there are people out there who actually work with their machines ? i doubt my boss´d like me tuning my computer or my car all day ? sure the liquid nitrogenium cooled super overclocked beast might be the fastest thing you can get playing your games. but i can´t live with a machine crashing during the night or the day (sure all computers crash. but there are differences in that big ones). although as entertaining as it is i still can´t see any point in your guys mindless bashing. but if you like to actually one should start a winrumors site would be a great place for all the people needing help out there

overclocking to a point that its not stable is not really overclocking, thats called stupidity.

overclocking includes making it run stable as well or we wouldnt be able to play games for 16 hours straight. (games are more demanding and problems would arise faster in stability than just running a word processor)

gaming computers do work just as well or better, before i had just my gaming computer for all my computer needs, email, surfing, and writing up my resume. gaming computers arent restricted to just games.

 

[Rob0711]

wow i envy you being able to play games for 16 hours straight ! and one hell of a computer that must be that survives running for 16 straight hours !

actually i don´t care if you compare watches, cars or whatever. the point is some people just do other things. so i guess everyone finds something that fits to his needs. as most people here already have

 

[polaris20]

yep, a 355, and i said you cannot compare cars to computers, it simply does not work. that whole post was the prove that comparing cars to computers is a waste of time.

I agree for the most part, however one thing that rings true for computers and cars is that pure speed is not the only factor in what makes the product a good value or not, nor is it up to you to decide for everyone else, despite yours and Mosx's efforts.

 

[pr5owner]

Outdoors? My watch works just fine outdoors and does everything I need, plus it looks good, too.

You see, just because you drive a Yugo doesn't mean you have to hate on everyone else who drives something else. Stop being a hater.

you didnt read the rest of the post did you?

why was the pathfinder created, well lets take a look

"Pathfinder watches not only feature authentic outdoor styling, but have distinguished themselves as “genuine tools” for use in the Great Outdoors. Every model is equipped with sensors to help you observe Nature and monitor its changes."


the sea pathfinder has a depth gauge, o2 reserve monitor, etc, etc

why do you even need those? why not just stay under until your o2 runs out, you dont need to monitor your rate of accent, you can just die on the bottom of the sea with a nice looking watch.

 

[polaris20]

wow i envy you being able to play games for 16 hours straight ! and one hell of a computer that must be that survives running for 16 straight hours !

actually i don´t care if you compare watches, cars or whatever. the point is some people just do other things. so i guess everyone finds something that fits to his needs. as most people here already have

That's another thing that's apparently lost on these guys; not everyone uses their computer for games and watching movies. Some of us actually do work on them.

 

[pr5owner]

wow i envy you being able to play games for 16 hours straight ! and one hell of a computer that must be that survives running for 16 straight hours !

actually i don´t care if you compare watches, cars or whatever. the point is some people just do other things. so i guess everyone finds something that fits to his needs. as most people here already have

that was just an example,

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2120472/second-gamer-dies-massive-binge

played for 86 hours straight,

anyways by my example if you play games for that long that means 100% stress on your system (CPU, RAm , Video, some HDD) while being overclocked, thats pretty stable for most gaming machines running at 4GHz from 3ish GHz.

if it can do that, then it can run a word processor and regular desktop stuff
indefinately

overclocking = FREE performance

That's another thing that's apparently lost on these guys; not everyone uses their computer for games and watching movies. Some of us actually do work on them.

in my other post i said i did do work on my gaming computer (when it was the only machine i had)

how else work i get computer work done? my gaming machine ran VMware at the time with 8 VM'sin the background for network software testing, ran it quite fast actaully.

gaming computers can do anything regular computer can do, just FASTER.

 

[LagunaSol]

although i think this looks better than a Macpro

Yeah, I'm sure all your buddies at the LAN party will be impressed. Nice lighting effects! *snicker*

 

[pr5owner]

Yeah, I'm sure all your buddies at the LAN party will be impressed. Nice lighting effects! *snicker*

in my other post i stated i like all black cases, and i hate dell and prebuilt computers but just saying that cases looks nicer than the macpros case

 

[polaris20]

in my other post i said i did do work on my gaming computer (when it was the only machine i had)

how else work i get computer work done? my gaming machine ran VMware at the time with 8 VM'sin the background for network software testing, ran it quite fast actaully.

gaming computers can do anything regular computer can do, just FASTER.

Yeah, I totally realize that, but thanks for filling me in. Gosh, I didn't know a gamer PC can do work too!

Jesus dude, just who exactly are you trying to convince of all the crap you're saying? Do you really think you're going to change anyone's mind? Do you really think people give a rat's ass how many computers you, me, or anyone has built or how much money they saved doing so?
Do you care how many OSes I currently have on my Xen server? I'm guessing not. Do you care that I've been running Win7 for nearly two months flawlessly on several different machines? Probably not.
Do I care that you think Apples are overpriced and not a good value? Without a doubt, absolutely not.

 

[gkarris]

yes because you choose looks and brand name over functional specs and peformance

PC users choose the latter. however PC users have many looks and can change looks when they feel like (changing cases, etc)

although i think this looks better than a Macpro

Yeah, I'm sure all your buddies at the LAN party will be impressed. Nice lighting effects! *snicker*

And when the lights "malfunction" you get to call rude Dell Customer Service Reps...

Okay, rant over...

Gaming rigs are NOT Apple's customers anyways. The closest that Apple will ever get to gaming is to use Intel processors and boot into Windows (which the ended up doing ).

AFA "an open Mac Tower" - well, Apple, just like iPhone unlockers, indirectly says go build your own - we certainly don't have the time.

(I know someone at work with a Hackintosh - it's pretty neat!)

It's not like they're going to arrest us iPhone unlockers and Hackintosh owners anyways...

How did Steve and Woz start out?

 

[-hh]

...overclocking includes making it run stable as well or we wouldnt be able to play games for 16 hours straight. (games are more demanding and problems would arise faster in stability than just running a word processor)...

Fair enough, but there's also a difference between asking for 16 hours of flawless runtime and 16 days or 16 weeks of flawless runtime. Its simply a different priority set.

This is the crux of the debate with Microsoft's Lauren and G-Boy ads: their priority set resonates because it is divergent from what Mac-centric individuals would consider.

Its technically not "Wrong" - - its "Different", and if it was a real person instead of a marketing piece, there would be nothing wrong with it: afterall, in that circumstance, it would be their money and their choice.

gaming computers do work just as well or better, before i had just my gaming computer for all my computer needs, email, surfing, and writing up my resume. gaming computers arent restricted to just games.

To play Devil's Advocate, I'd venture to say that you were "Ripped Off".

Afterall, for websurfing, pretty much any PC one buys today is going to be limited by the bandwidth of the connection, so you bought "too fast" of a PC.

Next, for reading email, even more so, since the bandwidth limitation is the human ability to read ... that's around 2400 baud; 9600 baud for reading USENET where there's more headers that can be ignored.

And for writing a resume, that's even slower than reading email.

As such, what was the magnitude of your ... shall we call it a "Gamer PC Tax"?

As I said: nothing technically "Wrong" - - just "Different", assuming that you're a real person and its your money and your choice. However, we all need to remember to return the courtesy in allowings others a similar freedom of choice without it being labelled as "Wrong", or a "Rip Off".

Afterall, its not necessarily always about being the first to arrive: there's also value to be had in having a less stressful trip such that one enjoys the journey.


-hh

EDIT: PS:

overclocking = FREE performance

Not necessariliy so. There's invariably some trade-off somewhere, particularly when the Manufacturer doesn't do something (like this) on his own. For example, overclocking typically generates higher operating temperatures which generally shortens the product's life. Granted, you might not care if it was reduced from 5 years to 4 if you upgrade every 3, but that's still a reduction and thus at some level, a hidden cost incurred by someone.

FWIW, it used to be a fairly common practice in some regions to overfill AL80 scuba tanks. But after a few of them blew up and killed a couple of fill operators, people finally started to get the clue that overfilling didn't come "Free" with zero downsides.


-hh

 

[DMann]

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390040611298

$250 (becuase im not a watch freak like some other ppl on that watch forum) but mine is a pathfinder with

Altimeter + Memory
Barometer
Compass
Temperature sensor
Tide Graph
Moon Phase
Waveceptor (atomic sync)
Titanium case and bracelet
Auto EL

but i also have a breitling, a Skagen, Citizen Calibre 2100, cheap chinese watch that has a cool clear/black alternating face

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrA0kR7YQiw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI1A0cbWTfw

No GPS? For that price? That swatch is way underpowered - you have seriously been ripped off!

 

[jbernie]

Totally. Rule #1 in business: Never sell people what they ask for.

Speaking of that, I was thinking of starting a car company. I have this great idea for a product lineup, tell me what you think.

And then, for pros and prosumers, something a little more high-end -- The Wac Pro:

I've thought about it carefully but I don't really see any gaps in this lineup, it covers all bases, IMO.

Great post Anuba I want me a Wac Pro to get groceries and take the kids to school. I think it will suit my needs perfectly.