Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad

[Anuba]

Its the little things. Comfortable mouse with 2d scrolling, keyboard with a good feel, little os flourishes like squeezing the mouse to see all screens, hot corners, less resource hungry os.

Attention to detail and good design on the little things increase your satisfaction and productivity.

I use pcs and macs side by side at home and at work.
I know which is more comfortable to use.

And if you are spending 8hrs a day working on a machine - its the little things that matter. A uncomfortable chair will diminish your work to some degree.

I know, that's why I spent a fortune on finding the right chair, the right keyboard and the right combo of pointing devices. I have a closet with a dozen keyboards and 20+ mice that should've gone on eBay a long time ago. I'm not a gamer but I ended up using Logitech gaming devices because of the precision they give and the way they were designed to remain comfortable all the way through a 24-hour gaming marathon. Oh, and a SpaceNavigator.

But it's precisely those little things that keep me from going Mac all the way, I spend about 75% of my work time on PC and 25% on Mac -- both have annoying quirks that get in my way. There are little things I love in OS X, like QuickLook, Spaces and Exposé, but there's also the retarded context-sensitive menu bar at the top of the screen (not so convenient on a dual-screen setup, huh), the propensity for desktop clutter and the single resize handle at the bottom right corner. Or the fact that save/load dialogs don't have full Finder functionality, or that Finder doesn't do cut/copy/paste of files. Those little things are to me what a mouse with spikes would be to you. Should Snow Leopard address those issues I'd be more than happy to switch, but right now, Windows is more in tune with my workflow because of all those little things.

 

[agreva]

Working at Best Buy as a computer salesman, I would assume that is the Sony Vaio FW351J/W. Witch not only is the only fw series sony that my store caries, but is also the only fw that our website has as well. Integrated intel media accelerator 4700. Ya, no thanks on the gaming front.

 

[Evangelion]

Apple just makes Chinese PCs like everyone else, so they have nothing to show for these prices that they're just pulling out of a hat. I definitely think that some brand tax is acceptable, that's just part of the game, but theirs is just hysterical.

I can think of several things. No PC-laptop has Magsafe. I HAVE been dealing with PC's that broke when the user tripped on the power-cord, pulling the computer to the floor. Magsafe has already spared me at least once from that fate. I have never seen a PC-laptop with a backlit-keyboard, like my MBP has. My MBP has excellent keyboard, whereas the ones in PC-laptops aren't as good. The trackpad in my MBP is a lot more versatile than the trackpads in PC-laptops. My MBP is smaller and lighter than comprable PC-laptops. My MBP feels sturdy and solid, whereas PC-laptops feel plastique and creaky.

And my MBP runs all OS'es out there, PC-laptops do not.

I use Lenovo Thinkpad T61 at work, which is best-of-breed PC-laptop. And while it's a good laptop, it's still not as good as my MBP is. Even though the components are more or less the same. It's heavier and bigger, the battery sticks out in the back, it has none of those "nice touches" (well it has "thinklight"....). And keep in mind: Thinkpads are also sold at a premium when compared to "normal" PC-laptops....

 

[lamina]

One word: BLUURAAYYYYYYY

Checkmate, MS.

 

[Journojulz]

Or the fact that save/load dialogs don't have full Finder functionality, or that Finder doesn't do cut/copy/paste of files.

Oooh that catches me out too!
I thought it was just me who found that annoying!

Apples aren't perfect - but I find they are trying harder (or smarter) than the alternative to finding simple solutions.

And obviusly he synergy of hardware and software does make for some inspired flourishes like the zoom function.

Overall - I had to spec a pc to work with 8 hrs a day, the "apple tax" would look like fair value.

My problem is the web software that takes up most of my day is IE6/7 ONLY.

Oh well, paralels and xp for my macbook.

 

[QCassidy352]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

Boy, these ads certainly do bring the trolls out of the woodwork, don't they?

 

[Beligerent]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

The mom has a nice little butt on her.

 

[BongoBanger]

And my MBP runs all OS'es out there, PC-laptops do not.

The counterargument is that Windows based PCs don't have to run other operating systems to get things done since virtually every application is available natively.

I never understood why the ability to run a competitor's OS is touted as a virtue - it just means that the installed OS doesn't support the applications you need.

Plus, of course, it's Apple that prevents other OEMs from running OS X - which they can do easily - not Microsoft.

 

[fabian9]

the report not once mentions security... At what cost do you value sensitive data getting pulled from your computer through viruses and Trojan horses? How much is a solid virus scanner and how much is it to get a virus removed once you have one? How much data is lost during a reinstall and unrecoverable because the backups have been infected with viruses as well?

Interesting to see how this report fails to look at the drawbacks of using windows whilst constantly reminding the reader of the disadvantages of using macs. Major fail!!!

 

[nick9191]

While few would argue that Apple's machines don't indeed carry some premium

I would certainly argue that to the death.

If a system is better or allows you to be more productive, then how can it carry any sort of premium since by definition it is cheaper for you.

 

[Anuba]

I can think of several things. No PC-laptop has Magsafe. I HAVE been dealing with PC's that broke when the user tripped on the power-cord, pulling the computer to the floor. Magsafe has already spared me at least once from that fate. I have never seen a PC-laptop with a backlit-keyboard, like my MBP has. My MBP has excellent keyboard, whereas the ones in PC-laptops aren't as good. The trackpad in my MBP is a lot more versatile than the trackpads in PC-laptops. My MBP is smaller and lighter than comprable PC-laptops. My MBP feels sturdy and solid, whereas PC-laptops feel plastique and creaky.

Yeah, I know they're full of nifty little things you often will find on PC notebooks. But going back to the car analogy, the reverse may be true with, say, Nissan vs. BMW. A Nissan Qashqai may come fully loaded with bells & whistles like an integrated Bluetooth handsfree and a panorama roof, while BMW is more like "oh, you want electric windows in the back seat? That's gonna cost extra."

My point was about manufacturing costs. No magsafe connector or aluminium enclosure can even begin to explain the entire Apple tax. (And you may not have seen PCs with backlit keyboards but it's pretty much a standard on all Dell notebooks in their prosumer and professional ranges where you should be looking for Mac equivalents). We could look instead at the Mac Pro (no magsafe or backlit keys there). The Nehalem quad 2.66 costs 50% more than a Dell Precision with the exact same specs. A Precision is not to be confused with their wobbly plastic consumer machines, it's pro all the way, comes with all the certifications that a Mac Pro does, plus a 3-year on-site NBD warranty that doesn't cost extra like AppleCare does. As nice as Macs are, there is simply nothing to explain this 50% markup -- they literally just pulled the price out of a hat.

And my MBP runs all OS'es out there, PC-laptops do not.

Yeah, that's definitely a benefit. Although, if you think about it it's not really due to some extra thing they added, it's because they won't allow OS X to run on PCs. In theory any PC would be quite capable of running OS X, Apple just won't allow it.

I use Lenovo Thinkpad T61 at work, which is best-of-breed PC-laptop. And while it's a good laptop, it's still not as good as my MBP is. Even though the components are more or less the same. It's heavier and bigger, the battery sticks out in the back, it has none of those "nice touches" (well it has "thinklight"....). And keep in mind: Thinkpads are also sold at a premium when compared to "normal" PC-laptops....

Yeah, I never understood the Lenovo craze just like I'll never understand why Blackberry is so popular. They're sturdy and well built, but there are other well built PCs that don't look like they're from 1998.

 

[Journojulz]

Plus, of course, it's Apple that prevents other OEMs from running OS X - which they can do easily - not Microsoft.

Easily? Maybe if they spent their R&D budget on tech support phone lines.

Seriously though -

The best and worst thing about PCs is that they can be built from unlimited parts combinations and specs.

And like homemade cars, these machines can do for pennies what prestige motors do for pounds.

They are also prone to a great deal more mechanical trouble and you wouldn't trust with them with your loved ones if they crash.

As OSX is only made to run on one machine, from one computer - it is designed to work in all the known permutations, something the flexibiity of the PC prohibits.

 

[iZac]

Apple did start this mud slinging competition, and although i dont condone their tactics, At least apples were sometimes amusing but glib hits.

Microsoft commissioned their obscure Seinfeld ads, which i quite enjoyed, but i think they realised those ads targeted a too subtle and 'educated' demographic. In retrospect the "I'm a PC" ads were quite a nice direct rebuttal and had a nice mix. Their latest slingshot of price wars and spreadsheets just smacks of desperation though. Blame this on 'focus' groups.

But then i don't know about the saturation point of any of these adverts ... because i don't have a TV!

 

[dernhelm]

Maybe we need a separate section here just for these I'm a PC ads. I'm getting pretty tired of them already.

 

[Anuba]

Oooh that catches me out too!
I thought it was just me who found that annoying!

I know! It's kind of a hidden feature in Windows, I bet only <10% have even discovered it.

Apples aren't perfect - but I find they are trying harder (or smarter) than the alternative to finding simple solutions.

I agree. An example would be TimeMachine. Apple were very, very late to the party, stuff like System Restore and automatic backups have been a staple of Windows since the year 2000 or thereabouts. But Time Machine is of course a much sexier and more intuitive solution.

And obviusly he synergy of hardware and software does make for some inspired flourishes like the zoom function.

You mean as in Ctrl+scroll wheel in Leopard? Yeah, I use that all the time. It's great when the boss comes by and wants to look at some itty-bitty graphics you made. Rather than let him smear your screen with nose grease, you just blow it up with the zoom function so he has to take five steps back to see it.

My problem is the web software that takes up most of my day is IE6/7 ONLY.

It's not the best browser in the world, no. And the Flash plugin sure knows how to crash IE7. But before version 4, Safari was a little too outdated for my taste, the tab management was so quirky you'd think it was an old Microsoft product.

 

[Journojulz]

My point was about manufacturing costs. No magsafe connector or aluminium enclosure can even begin to explain the entire Apple tax.

Does anyone have an idea how much the "apple tax" is?

Its the R&D that costs, and I am willing to pay £200 (20%) if the attention to detail comes put of the box - saves me buying a better mouse/keyboard/third party apps etc

I ask this because at work we have to use dell - and their basic 13" laptop is the same £700 as a macbook.

 

[grahamnp]

The ads are highly deceptive and fail to mention all the details but then again, that's no different from the get a mac commercials.

 

[i.mac]

after watching this comercial, I'm going straight to the apple store
To purchase a mac !

I have a Sony of, and it is not nearly as good as my mac, not even close.

 

[cciliberto33]

Rant Time

I'm going to start off by saying, this is a terrible attempt of M$'s marketing team. One reason why, I bet you that kid and over 1/2 of 11 year olds cant define what a good gaming machine is without get this result "Uhhh Gaming is the thing i shoot people on pow pow pow." Like Microsoft seriously main gaming on a laptop, comon. Next, I love how the mom says, "I have to make this thing fast because sometimes we have to look things up quickly before baseball." I think she is referring to looking something up on the internet, that has nothing to do on how fast a computer is that depends on your ISP connection speed. My last thing and the thing that annoys me the most is that the kid is getting a 16.4 inch screen computer, think how ridiculous he will look carrying that thing around, its probably 2 times the width he is. I still think 13 inch is a good size laptop screen. Also kid, please get a hair cut.

 

[chatin]

Add the cost of virus downtime and hunting drivers and the kid has just learned a lesson on reoccuring trash tax.

 

[jacktiernan]

I think this is the 'best' of the 3 so far.

What I mean is that I think this is the one which delivers the message effectively, and with a bit of charm and humour.

I think this is a very good move on Microsoft's part. Good advertising.

Still wouldn't convince me though - I think I have good reasons to pay more for a mac, as does everyone here, I presume

 

[WeegieMac]

That Ad is rammed so damn hard full of irony it's painful.

You become an apple user - you have to conform to the Apple way of doing things, it doesn't unleash you in some way. My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

What's even funnier is that the "advert" isn't even an official advert and appears to be the work of a foreign University media student ...

 

[Journojulz]

Anyone think these ads are made as an apology to the manufacturers for vista driving people away from sony/hp laptops?

If i was Mr Sony - would I be happy my hotrod had to be sold with shoddy tyres?

 

[WelshMacBoy]

Apple products are expensive and I wish they would make their products more affordable. However these ads look like to me that Microsoft are trying to bully Apple into reducing their prices on their products, if that does happen then people will start buying more Macs and less PC's resulting in less sales / profits for Microsoft. Are Microsoft not shooting themselves in the foot here?

 

[Anuba]

Does anyone have an idea how much the "apple tax" is?

Well, some of it comes from OSX development costs of course. Since the install base is so small compared to Windows, there are fewer people to share the cost. And then there's some brand tax, which is acceptable (to me anyway). Also, they sometimes use more expensive materials.

But if you look at the Mac Pro, the Apple tax becomes extremely difficult to justify. The R&D argument doesn't hold up because this is pretty much the same case that they developed many years ago for the G5. And there isn't any extra bling like backlit keys, magsafe, laser-cut unibody, glass screen, glass touchpad -- it's just a bucket with generic components inside. Why I should pay 50,000 SEK for that when I can get another Chinese bucket with the exact same components from Dell for 30,000 SEK is beyond comprehension.

Same goes for the Apple Cinema 30" screen. The design is ancient by now (it's much thicker than an iMac), and the LG screen they use is very cheap and outdated. And a screen sure doesn't come loaded with OSX. I'd estimate a 60-70% Apple tax on that one.