Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad

[mosx]

Say what? 3% are you nuts? Apple has never been below 5 and currently they are at something like 9.7%.

Oh really? 3.4% worldwide and 7.2% US.

Apple on the other hand is doing great and in a world where people are choosing notebooks over dektops more and more Macbook is the highest selling notebook computer on US campuses. Guess what? % years from now those students are not going to be students any more and 10 years down the road most of them would actually have families and most likely the family computer will be a Mac too. So sure MS has a lot to fear. Only they kinda missed the target group for their ads so far.

Like I said in another thread, after those college students are finished with college and they have their liberal arts degrees and they're working at McDonalds and finally paying for their own life, let's see what computer they buy.

Oh and dude there is no way that you've been using windows for 2 decades because Windows hasn't been around for that long

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows Windows was released in 1985. And I said "almost" two decades. I've been using it since Windows 3.0.

Also get your facts straight about the displays. There are countless review that cannot find a better display than the ones Apple sells.

What reviews? CNET reviews? They're the 3 Stooges of technology sites.

Let's see.. 2ms response time, 50,000:1 contrast ratio, HDMI, 24" 16x9 display rather than out of proportion 16x10, and not so glossy you get a headache just looking at it. Hmmm.

The Xbox 360 was the slowest in catching on to what was needed to be HD, and was behind from launch. At E3 2005 Peter Moore said that the 'blueprint' set aside by Microsoft was that every game should be in 720p HD. 1080p was never mentioned, despite the PS3's looming shadow consisting of true HD 1080p.

And how many PS3 games run at 1080p? On top of that, how many PS3 games actually run at 720p? The PS3 has more games that run at 640p than any other system. GTA4, the biggest game of last year, ran at 640p compared to the Xbox360s 720p. With the exception of GT5, which has cardboard cutout environments, PS3 games that claim 1080p only run at 720p or 640p upscaled to 1080p.

The 360 itself shipped with component only, not HDMI ... a major flaw recognised and bemoaned by the industry. It was only capable of 720p and Microsoft themselves said 1080p was "not required" until Sony hit back with their claim that "the Next Generation will start when we enter the market with true High Definition".

Yeah and look how well Sony is doing. Their system has the lowest average resolution, they're in a very distant third place, and their system isn't even half as capable as they claimed it was. 1080p is a pipe dream for their games unless they have cardboard cutout enivronments like GT5.

Microsoft then updated the 360 with a firmware patch to allow 1080p through VGA and then again through Component. They then denied the need for HDMI only to develop a new chipset (Falcon) with HDMI included and out the box 1080p support.

And what happened to the multiple ethernet ports on the PS3? Dual HDMI ports? support for dual displays at 1080p? And what happened to Sony's commitment to backwards compatibility? One year they say "Playstation will live in forever through backwards compatibility" and that backwards compatibility is "paramount to the strategy". Then a year later backwards compatibility was gone. What happened to SACD support? The important card readers and multiple USB ports? Yeah exactly. Microsoft has actually ADDED to the Xbox360 both in hardware and software features, while Sony has done nothing but take away feature after feature after feature.

And then there's the lack of a next generation disc format, something the Microsoft fans have been spouting when comparing Mac's to PC's. The PlayStation 3 was Sony's Blu-Ray trojan horse and it worked. The PlayStation 3 is THE Next Generation platform in that it comes with Blu-Ray, 1080p, HDMI, and connectivity out the box.

Blu-ray is great for movies. But for games? Sorry but the PS3 has worse loading times than the old Sega CD. And so far blu-ray has offered NO advantage for games. If you actually keep up on the industry as you claim, you'd know that PS3 blu-ray games are mostly filled with dummy files.

PS3 isn't even capable of rendering games at 1080p at a reasonable framerate, unless its cardboard cutouts like GT5's environments. The PS3 can't even keep a steady framerate at 640p, like GTA4. The PS3 is a joke.

4GO ram, but DDR2, all Apple laptops run faster DDR3.

Theres a lot of PCs that do use DDR3.

Vista 64 bits? Is that system that runs poorly 32 bits applications, does not run 32 bits drivers, and has therefore poor compatibility?

First of all, 32-bit apps run just fine in Vista 64. With drivers, you'd be hard pressed to find a device that does NOT have Vista 64 support. Even my 5 year old PCI TV tuner has Vista 64 drivers.

Dedicated card, you get that right, though with a macbook pro you get two GPU chips, dedicated and integrated.

Which don't run in hybrid SLI like they do on proper Windows machines. You can only run one or the other.

Blu-ray? Isn't it that crap which slows down Vista as the OS has too guaranty proper reading of protected content? Or is that crap that no one buys for their living room? While Sony is pushing for Blu-ray, Apple is building a totally new over the air media entertainment system. Guess which one will be chosen by customers.

Yeah, guess which one customers are choosing? Right now, blu-ray is growing faster than DVD did. If you compare DVD at 2.5-3 years old to blu-ray, you'll find that blu-ray has TWICE the marketshare of DVD at that same point in time. Which translates into faster growth than ANY consumer video format ever. Meanwhile, the Apple TV is failing and doesn't even have a fraction of the marketshare that blu-ray does.

Don't even begin to compare quality. iTunes HD is at 720p, 4.5Mbps. Blu-ray is 1080p at up to 45Mbps. There is NO comparison. None.

Magnesium alloy cage? And what, that's still way inferior to what Apple can do with its unibody aluminum design.

UniBody MacBook owner here. It is NOT built as well as my plastic HP.

-6.4 pounds light? You call this light? Then now, it is confirmed, you are a troll. First of all the sony laptop weights 6.4-7.0 pounds, usually more to 7.0. A Macbook pro 15 inch weights 5.5 pounds. The sony is closer to the Macbook pro 17 inch (6.6), though the MacBook pro 17 is way better in features.

The MacBook Pro is better in features than the system in this ad? I don't think so. No blu-ray, no HDMI, no card readers, OS X, worse build quality, etc.

You get a display port connector. Sony use VGA (yes most pc has still VGA can you believe that) and HDMI, the connector that is going no where in the computer space.

- You get digital audio.

HDMI is going nowhere? Is that why nearly every Windows notebook PC that isn't a netbook has HDMI? Is that why every good display out there includes HDMI?

Also, you get digital audio out over HDMI. Uncompressed multi-channel PCM

- You get a LED display.

Which is entirely overrated.

Blu-ray has such a small market share at the amount, people just can't afford to spend the extra money on something they can hardly see the difference in quality.
So why is Microsoft who are trying to convince people to buy something that they say is cheaper and cost effective, when blu-ray really isn't a selling point for someone with a tight budget.

Such a small marketshare? Again, Blu-ray has twice the marketshare as DVD did at the same point in its life. Blu-ray is growing faster than DVD did.

Can't tell the difference? Spoken like someone who has never seen a blu-ray movie. The difference between blu-ray and DVD is greater than the difference between VHS and DVD.

Blu-ray movies have also come down in price. They cost no more now than DVDs did at the same point in their life. Same for the players. A good player can be had for around $250 now, same as DVDs at the same point in its life.

 

[Saxguy87]

Just keep on...

I feel bad that Microsoft can't figure out a way of advertising their software, that they have to resort to petty and fruitless hardware and price comparisons. I also love the completely sponsored report on the 'Apple Tax' (And you wonder why the Cigarrette Companies still publish reports saying Cigarrettes don't cause cancer?). To be completely honest, there is always somebody who can offer the 'same' product for far less than another company, but price is only a facet of what Americans SHOULD regard as a bargain. A real bargain comes from a product that is incredibly useful to you, works for you, works as expected, is easy to learn how to operate, does what you want it to do, is easy to service/update and comes at an affordable price. Now, if that's a Mac to you, buy Mac, if that's a PC to you, buy PC. It's that easy. Now, granted, you can probably find several computers with 'similar' hardware to a Mac for far less, but I feel the margin gets drastically more narrow when you compare a computer with 'the same' hardware as a Mac. Even narrower when you compare a computer with 'the same' software as a Mac... think about that one for a bit. If what you want is a Mac, buy a Mac, if you love PCs, buy PCs. Don't let hardware price comparisons affect your decision. Look at the software and ask yourself, "What do I want to do/get done with this comptuer?" If that doesn't find an answer, you need more information on both brands.

 

[Christopher8258]

No this is a cool ad; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE857DJWX2w&feature=related

I do like that ad.

 

[djellison]

No this is a cool ad; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE857DJWX2w&feature=related

That Ad is rammed so damn hard full of irony it's painful.

You become an apple user - you have to conform to the Apple way of doing things, it doesn't unleash you in some way. My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

 

[offwidafairies]

"that's too expensive"

what's wrong, didn't soccer mommy land a rich enough husband? these ads are stupid

there is no need for that...
i think these ads are smart - apple is too expensive

 

[jgbhardy]

c'mon guys, computers are tools! not a religion

Do you not realise where you are? = God

 

[walnuts]

You know, ads like this get me worried. I don't care that I might pay a little more for macs. I don't care if Microsoft skews the fact in their ads; I'm not sure that Apple's ads were perfectly honest either.

It does concern me that MS has a one trump card- an ad that would force even me to go back to windows. They wouldn't have to spend a dime on it- Steve Balmer could say it at his dinner table and it would be enough press coverage. If they stopped shipping office for mac- I'd be done. As much as I love my mac stuff, if I can't edit work documents and be 99.5% sure that there will be no compatibility issues with my colleagues (and even the current office version for mac has destroyed a work file or two), then the party is over for me.

Is anyone else concerned about this? It seems to me that this is the first time in years that Microsoft has actually turned to attack apple back. What is to stop them from shipping office for mac? I'm not so sure its all that profitable for them- isn't the Mac BU one of the smallest departments at Microsoft already?

 

[Journojulz]

I have a question that a couple of my friends raised. Does Microsoft pay royalties to Apple, Sony, HP, and all the other brands featured in these ads? I have no idea how it works, so that's why I'm asking.

Legally you are allowed to name other products in advertising.

What is more interesting possibility - is are the hardware manufcturers contributing to the cost?

You would usually expect them to chip in, unless........

....unless MS is doing this to make up to sony et al for all poor experiences laptop users have been having with Vista.

You can imagine the hardware manufacturers are pretty miffed that their shiny hotrods have to be delivered with wonky tyres.

Make sense?

 

[kwfl]

it is not fair microsoft.

We mac users dont need a bluray drive, do we?

 

[mj6252]

Once again MS have put more money into advertising than fixing Vista.

I agree. Jerry Seinfield (did I spell it right? people seem to be too uptight with spelling and grammar here), the "I'm a PC" (which is so original, just replace "Mac" with "PC", the kids, and now theses series.

Tons of money spent, but then again, MSFT can fund it, why not. Whatever works for them

 

[gctwnl]

Quoting from the CNN Money.com article, Is the Apple press falling into Microsoft’s trap?:

Indeed. The apps are factually misleading in many ways but that is not the point. Just as Coke marketing (very successful world wide) is not about the drink at all but about image and style.

There are various underlying messages here and they are well crafted and highly effective. It is their effectiveness that makes many people on lists like these angry. We only laughed about the ineffectiveness of the Seinfeld ads. But this is very smart advertizing. Apple is being portrayed as not for normal people but only for elitist types. That is what the positive remarks about Apple in the ads (sexy, cool, etc.) are intended to reinforce. I think all this talk about price and apple tax might just be a means to a more subtle and effective psychological end.

Psychologically, this add campaign is brilliant. Apple cannot answer with their OS or machines being superior (this only reinforces Microsofts underlying message). They cannot answer this with more 'cool' people as this only reinforces Microsoft's message. I repeat, this is a very cunning attack by Microsoft.

If I were Apple I would (also) create a lot of advertisements with 'normal people' (definitely not cool). Think grandma & grandpa video-chatting with grandchildren and sending e-mail, think stressing the 'OS that does not get in the way' qualities of Mac OS X, think 'Time Machine to the rescue' when a school assignment is due. None of these suggestions may be any good, but Apple marketing needs to be very psychologically savvy to counter this Microsoft line of attack.

Apple could also attack Microsoft's vapourware history (a valid line of attack could be the underlying message "you cannot trust Microsoft"). Trust, I think, could also be a good psychological line of attack for Apple.

Maybe Apple could do one more "I'm a PC, Im a Mac" and have the PC (the 'normal, not-cool type', switch. "I'm a Mac, I'm a Mac". Maybe not

 

[InkMaster]

...with absolutely no concern about deeper issues like quality or software...

And that is exactly what I find absolutely hilarious about the whole thing. They're just going outta their way to not even mention that the "PCs" that are being bought are running Windows. Hell, they're trying to even avoid showing the screens of the computers for too long

 

[BongoBanger]

I don't find these commercials to be anything special, but I think they're quite similar to Apple's Mac vs. PC commercials - aimed at the most visible flaws of their competitor. In MS's case, it's Vista problems, in Apple's it's the lack of choice and higher prices.

I think both of these are pretty obvious facts and it seems unfair to me that many people here are saying Microsoft is pathetic for manipulating the facts and practically lying to the customers, but at the same time these people laugh at the Mac vs. PC ads.

Face it - both have some truth behind them and both do some marketing tricks/manipulation.

QFT.

I don't understand the hypocrisy of some people who laud Apple for their 'Fix Vista' advert - released about 6 months after Vista was actually fixed with SP1 - and then rant and rave about this series of adverts.

What goes around comes around I guess.

 

[Journojulz]

My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

Struggling to think of examples what kind of 'creative moments' you are talking about?

photography? creative writing? music? graphic design?

as an example - Since i went mac i have transferred a lot more tunes from brain to bytes - because the machine fires up quicker an doesn't play an annoying tune that disrupts the notes.....

What am I missing?

 

[Christopher8258]

Struggling to think of examples what kind of 'creative moments' you are talking about?

photography? creative writing? music? graphic design?

as an example - Since i went mac i have transferred a lot more tunes from brain to bytes - because the machine fires up quicker an doesn't play an annoying tune that disrupts the notes.....

What am I missing?

About 1800 bucks out of your wallet.

 

[fewture]

Got to love Apple fanboys getting all uncomfortable.

Why do you protect your overcharging company?

I love Apple products too, I am typing on one right now. But I know that they are overpriced!!

It could be cheaper and it should be cheaper. The Apple we love and know would still be here and might even be doing better if they made their products just a bit more reasonably priced (or a lot more)

 

[gloubibou]

Worth a read - So tragically funny

Wow! Read the bogus paper. Ok for the first 2 pages. Then we approach silly. Downhill from there until mesmerizingly stupid. Just wow!

So the Apple tax comes from the fact that the user buys software (Office, Quicken), orders services (MobileMe) and buys upgrades (iLife) whereas he could have spent 5 years playing solitaire on a PC devoid of any software other than the bundled Notepad, Wordpad, Solitaire and Minesweeper.

Apple Tax; noun - Ignoring the fact that your Mac came with software, you keep buying additional software and subscriptions. And upgrades!

 

[InkMaster]

Got to love Apple fanboys getting all uncomfortable.

Why do you protect your overcharging company?

I love Apple products too, I am typing on one right now. But I know that they still overpriced!!

It could be cheaper and it should be cheaper. The Apple we love and know would still be here and might even be doing better if they made their products just a bit more reasonably priced

Agreed. But its not even a matter of price as the whole idea of an "Apple tax". I'm not saying that there isn't one, but you don't see anyone bitching and moaning about the BMW or Mercedes tax. And don't tell me that BMWs and Mercedes are higher quality, they're not, its all same crap and a typical BMW breaks more often then a base model VW Rabbit.

 

[WeegieMac]

Got to love Apple fanboys getting all uncomfortable.

Why do you protect your overcharging company?

I love Apple products too, I am typing on one right now. But I know that they are overpriced!!

It could be cheaper and it should be cheaper. The Apple we love and know would still be here and might even be doing better if they made their products just a bit more reasonably priced (or a lot more)

I think Apple fans are more "uncomfortable" by the nature in which we're being dictated to on here more than we are with the content of Microsoft's adverts.

I too acknowledge that Macs cost more, but not to the extent of Microsoft's ridiculous Apple Tax PDF.

 

[grahamtearne]

For users like us you are correct, we buy for OS X. For the target audience of these adverts - the casual computer user or the already passionate Windows users then no they are hitting the nail on the head.

Why talk about an OS when most computer users have no idea what that is, they want speed and value for money. More savvy users already know about OS X and have their own mind made up on it or will test it out if they are intrigued. MS are using the value card right now and that appeals to me people than talking about an Operating system ever could.

I completely fail to understand comparison on a feature-for-feature basis. Who cares if there is a slightly bigger hard-drive or more RAM for your buck - the fundamental difference is that an Apple computer WILL RUN OSX out of the box.

That should always the determining factor - the OS difference is a billion times more significant than any hardware difference, a fact that is not addressed in these ads.

//jasper

 

[Anuba]

Psychologically, this add campaign is brilliant. Apple cannot answer with their OS or machines being superior (this only reinforces Microsofts underlying message). They cannot answer this with more 'cool' people as this only reinforces Microsoft's message. I repeat, this is a very cunning attack by Microsoft.

Yup. And it's a two pronged attack, not just on Apple's products but also on their ads, specifically the Get a Mac ads. After Microsoft's "I'm a PC... so?" ads (they ran those between the Seinfeld ones and the laptop hunter ones), there have been no new Hodgman/Long ads. Not a single one in 2009. The concept has been pretty much neutralized and it will be very hard to do another one without reinforcing the "not cool enough" factor and coming off as jerks.

 

[politickle]

My most creative moments are on my PC workstation when I can do what I want, rather than what Steve Jobs has dictated I should do.

I think most creative professionals would disagree with you on that. It is Apple that offers us creative professionals the freedom.

I've never met anybody in the industry that has said anything different.

 

[gctwnl]

You know, ads like this get me worried. I don't care that I might pay a little more for macs. I don't care if Microsoft skews the fact in their ads; I'm not sure that Apple's ads were perfectly honest either.

It does concern me that MS has a one trump card- an ad that would force even me to go back to windows. They wouldn't have to spend a dime on it- Steve Balmer could say it at his dinner table and it would be enough press coverage. If they stopped shipping office for mac- I'd be done. As much as I love my mac stuff, if I can't edit work documents and be 99.5% sure that there will be no compatibility issues with my colleagues (and even the current office version for mac has destroyed a work file or two), then the party is over for me.

Is anyone else concerned about this? It seems to me that this is the first time in years that Microsoft has actually turned to attack apple back. What is to stop them from shipping office for mac? I'm not so sure its all that profitable for them- isn't the Mac BU one of the smallest departments at Microsoft already?

This is indeed worrying. But Microsoft needs a competitor or it gets into legal trouble. Killing off Mac is not good in the long term. They need a competitor, but not too good a competitor. If they would use the trump card, all anti-monopoly agencies in the world would probably try to tear them apart.

But I would be surprised if this very important point would not also be already technically addressed by Apple. They may be able to run the Windows office in some sort of Windows compatibility layer. Think Wine. That would be terrifying for Microsoft, because at this point they can keep MS Office for Mac crippled. If Microsoft dropped Office for Mac, Apple would also probably immediately put all its weight behind Open Office. That is something Microsoft does not want either. Too risky.

Strategically, Microsoft wants the status quo. One limited competitor. Apple is getting a bit too successful, I think, in the eyes of Microsoft.

G

 

[ciociosan]

Well at least this time they went with a well-designed PC. If I were to buy a PC (which I won't), I'd go for a Vaio. Defo.

 

[Greenbook]

You only need to hit escape

Actually it depends. If in the safari search field for instance, you will need to press option too.