Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad
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Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
Sarcasm was lost as usual.Frankly, I get tired of having blissful Windows users tell me I misuse(d) my computers - I am technically experienced and have worked on both the software and hardware sides of computers. Granted I exaggerated in the post above because I was being sarcastic (I guess the sarcasm was lost), but please don't tell me I have OCD when I - and my family and several of my friends - have had these same problems consistently across every version of Windows we've had installed (from 98 through XP SP2). I don't wantonly speak negatively of a product unless I speak from experience.
No offense, but don't tell me I'm obsessive compulsive just because I've experienced the same consistant problems with Windows.
guzzlamiamor
macrumors member
Very well said.
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
Stella
macrumors G3
Of course, people should not be surprised that microsoft will try to highlight the negatives in Macs so much.
This is not a balanced view at all, and lets face it, if it were Apple, they would do the same... and half done: present a totally unbalanced view of buying Mac vs windows PC.
Of course the adverts were played by actors - to get the best image across of how 'great' a windows PC is.
On an individual level, for some people a Mac isn't appropriate and they'd be far better off getting a windows PC, like wise, the reverse is also true.
This is not a balanced view at all, and lets face it, if it were Apple, they would do the same... and half done: present a totally unbalanced view of buying Mac vs windows PC.
Of course the adverts were played by actors - to get the best image across of how 'great' a windows PC is.
On an individual level, for some people a Mac isn't appropriate and they'd be far better off getting a windows PC, like wise, the reverse is also true.
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
I guess you missed out on the people that wouldn't install an OS X update because it would brick there hardware or software.
Why am I going to use an operating system if I can't install any applications at all or update it? I might as well have kept my MacBook in the box to keep it in its purest state.
I had a total of 7 recent crashes on OSX.
My macbook pro hard-crashed 4 times since I bought it last month WHEN using VMWare. After leaving the VMWare machine on for 2 days, if I shut it down, it would hard-crash OS X requiring holding of the power button to reset it. I guess OS X is to blame, it has to be according to your logic.
When my macbook pro came out of sleep, it crashed twice. It happened only when I quickly typed in the password JUST as it was coming out of sleep. It was random though.
When ITunes was doing that "determining gapless playback" crap over the network, I quit it...it wouldn't quit so I forced quit it. Then I tried to shut down the machine and OS X came to a crawl. Finder closed and I couldn't do anything. I had to hard reset again.
I already tested the memory, the machine works fine except for the crashes above. I'm almost certain that these crashes are related to unexpected "race conditions" in the programming in OS X.
Oh btw, on my Vista server, I had one crash that was due to bad nvidia drivers over a 2-year period.
One crash with Vista, 7 crashes with OS X, what do you think is more stable?
But then again, stable must be a subjective thing. My vista server was all high-end hardware (custom built) and proper cooling and power. It's funny when people run Vista on sub-$300 machines and saying vista sucks.
guzzlamiamor
macrumors member
I guess you missed my entire point. I am not sure of what specific update you are referring, but if it is what you say it is then those who didn't install were the smart ones. Personally I have no idea about that. All I am saying is that I am a very heavy user, and I know others who do install apps and make a lot of updates and DON'T have the issues you describe. As I mentioned before, in regards to hardware it is a bit different because the exact same component can vary slightly because of manufacturing conditions. Software issues, which cause the brunt of crashes, are different because out of the box every piece of software is the same. I am not going to sit here and theorize why you have so much trouble with OSX, all I am saying is that I haven't and I don't know anyone else personally who has.
xUKHCx
Administrator emeritus
Conveniently missing the part where apple change this tactic (admittedly an extremely bad one) and the fact that it is not a virus as you had stated previously.
IrishSniper87
macrumors regular
I was in best buy last night, and the computer section was almost comical. 3 rows of PC's that had roughly 4 people looking thru many many machines.
And about 12 people around the little table checking out the Macs. The 24' iMac and the Unibody MacBooks were the most popular.
To be fair, there have been Windows updates that have bricked the system too. In fact, I'd say there have been more Windows updates that has affected the stability of the system than OS X updates.
Stella
macrumors G3
The definition of Malware is software that:
"Infiltrate or damage a computer system without the owner's informed consent."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware
Since:
1. iTunes does not damage your computer
2. iTunes does not install itself without your consent.
iTunes cannot be considered 'malware'.
The URL that you reference, the user is *clearly* given the option of not installing Safari - simply by unchecking a check box.
guzzlamiamor
macrumors member
All you are doing is reiterating my point. Your first point is related to VMWARE, a 3rd party app. Your MAC crashed because you wanted to run Windows virtually using a 3rd party app and you blame OSX. Like I said, user error. If you wanted to run Vista either buy a Vista machine, use Boot Camp, or live with the fact that essentially running two OS's at the same time is a drain on resources and increases the chances of a crash. I have no comment about the "sleep" issue as it has never happened to me, and I have over 200 gigs of music in my iTunes library and have imported 5 gig chunks at one time and have not experienced the issues you described.
I don't like Safari. Firefox all the way. I've tried Safari 4 but use it actively ZERO percent of the time.
But bundling it with iTunes in such a manner does seem pretty Microsoft-ish, doesn't it?
AidenShaw
macrumors P6
I did not state that Itunes was a virus, I stated that it was "malware".
It's more of a Trojan, something that tries to trick unwitting users into downloading a payload that they might not want.
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
Oh sweet irony.
I mention one of the few problems I've ever had in Leopard besides FileVault not really working right, Apple's X11 + GIMP, and I'm suddenly I'm having so much trouble with OS X.
Beta video drivers for me but since I like to live on the bleeding edge. I haven't had a Windows update problem, yet. I hope it stays that way.
When I went to best buy to buy a laptop, the sales guy was pressuring me to buy a Mac. He was pulling all kinds of sales tactics and blabbering about how Macs never crash and how Macs can run Windows and all sorts of stuff. Hilarious. However, I did buy a Mac, only because I wanted to try OS X. I'll admit that the macbook is a very fine built machine but lacks upgradability of windows laptops.
netnothing
macrumors 68040
Microsoft doing the only thing they can, attack the hardware and price
Microsoft are doing the only thing they can do right now, and that's attack the hardware and price.
Let's be honest, Macs are more expensive hardware than most equivalent PCs. There are always cases where the price will come close, but most times PC OEMs can offer much cheaper prices.
That being said, Apple has decided not to compete in that market. Doesn't matter how much they bought the parts for, or what their margins are. Apple as a company has chosen to price their hardware according to what they feel they can sell it for. The market (customers) will determine for Apple whether their decisions are correct or not.
What Microsoft can't do right now is argue Vista vs OS X. They want to run away from Vista and that name as fast as they can. It's tarnished. Doesn't matter whether it works now or not....the bad name and vibe is out there.
So right now their only choice is to hit Apple where they can.....hardware, specs, and price.
Personally, I think it's much more than just the initial cost that justifies buying a computer. I try to look at the overall experience. Afterall, you don't buy a computer to just have it sit on the table.....you have to turn it on and use it. This is where the operating system and applications come into play.
My personally, I love OS X. It's the reason I use a Mac. It's the reason I switched my Mom to a Mac. Plain and simple, I am able to work better and more efficiently in OS X. It's a pleasure to sit down at my desk everyday and use my computer....not a chore.
My mom was fed up with her Vista laptop. I got her a MacBook and she hasn't looked back.
iPhoto vs. Windows Picture Gallery.....no competition there.
Apple Mail vs. Windows Mail.....again, in my opinion Apple wins here.
Screen sharing in iChat and Leopard.....brilliant and seemless. No port forwarding, no configuration. My mom has a question or issue....no need to wait until the next time I see her....or try to walk her through it on the phone. Just have her sign onto iChat and see the situation myself. This also goes for screen sharing between my own Macs. Simple, easy and works everytime.....built right into the OS.
The little things built into OS X that help my productivity are what matter to me.
Time Machine is awesome. Works in the background, no hassle, no fuss, and has saved my ass on a number of occasions. It did exactly what it was designed to do....make backups easy.
Spaces. I develop of my Mac all day long. Spaces has changed the way I work. No longer am I messing around with tons of open windows in my face. Everything is organized accordingly.
Expose. Perfect implementation of window management. Just a simple keypress or mouse shortcut I can see all open windows, or just my current apps open windows.
The overall interface and design of OS X. To me, Aero is UGLY. I mean c'mon, why do I want to see a window behind the current window I'm supposed to be focused on? I think OS X (other than Aqua....man I can't wait for Marble) is beautiful. And when I have to sit on my machine all day long and actually USE it.....it makes me more efficient.
I was a Windows user....still am. But my main machine is a Mac, and the reason....OS X.
Do I want Apple to license OS X to run on any hardware....no not really. I do think OS X benefits from the closed system that it's in. Yes there is a price premium, but me personally, I'm willing to pay for it, in return to get what I feel is a better user experience.
Hopefully for Windows users, Windows 7 increases performance and reliability. Overall, I still think it looks ugly and is way too cluttered and messy.
-Kevin
Microsoft are doing the only thing they can do right now, and that's attack the hardware and price.
Let's be honest, Macs are more expensive hardware than most equivalent PCs. There are always cases where the price will come close, but most times PC OEMs can offer much cheaper prices.
That being said, Apple has decided not to compete in that market. Doesn't matter how much they bought the parts for, or what their margins are. Apple as a company has chosen to price their hardware according to what they feel they can sell it for. The market (customers) will determine for Apple whether their decisions are correct or not.
What Microsoft can't do right now is argue Vista vs OS X. They want to run away from Vista and that name as fast as they can. It's tarnished. Doesn't matter whether it works now or not....the bad name and vibe is out there.
So right now their only choice is to hit Apple where they can.....hardware, specs, and price.
Personally, I think it's much more than just the initial cost that justifies buying a computer. I try to look at the overall experience. Afterall, you don't buy a computer to just have it sit on the table.....you have to turn it on and use it. This is where the operating system and applications come into play.
My personally, I love OS X. It's the reason I use a Mac. It's the reason I switched my Mom to a Mac. Plain and simple, I am able to work better and more efficiently in OS X. It's a pleasure to sit down at my desk everyday and use my computer....not a chore.
My mom was fed up with her Vista laptop. I got her a MacBook and she hasn't looked back.
iPhoto vs. Windows Picture Gallery.....no competition there.
Apple Mail vs. Windows Mail.....again, in my opinion Apple wins here.
Screen sharing in iChat and Leopard.....brilliant and seemless. No port forwarding, no configuration. My mom has a question or issue....no need to wait until the next time I see her....or try to walk her through it on the phone. Just have her sign onto iChat and see the situation myself. This also goes for screen sharing between my own Macs. Simple, easy and works everytime.....built right into the OS.
The little things built into OS X that help my productivity are what matter to me.
Time Machine is awesome. Works in the background, no hassle, no fuss, and has saved my ass on a number of occasions. It did exactly what it was designed to do....make backups easy.
Spaces. I develop of my Mac all day long. Spaces has changed the way I work. No longer am I messing around with tons of open windows in my face. Everything is organized accordingly.
Expose. Perfect implementation of window management. Just a simple keypress or mouse shortcut I can see all open windows, or just my current apps open windows.
The overall interface and design of OS X. To me, Aero is UGLY. I mean c'mon, why do I want to see a window behind the current window I'm supposed to be focused on? I think OS X (other than Aqua....man I can't wait for Marble) is beautiful. And when I have to sit on my machine all day long and actually USE it.....it makes me more efficient.
I was a Windows user....still am. But my main machine is a Mac, and the reason....OS X.
Do I want Apple to license OS X to run on any hardware....no not really. I do think OS X benefits from the closed system that it's in. Yes there is a price premium, but me personally, I'm willing to pay for it, in return to get what I feel is a better user experience.
Hopefully for Windows users, Windows 7 increases performance and reliability. Overall, I still think it looks ugly and is way too cluttered and messy.
-Kevin
guzzlamiamor
macrumors member
So what you are really talking about are issues with apps? Then why did you even mention your ratio of restores for OSX to Vista? Are you running GIMP +X11 on Vista? No, because it runs native. Again, has to do with your use. When you run non-native apps and things like VMWARE as mentioned by another poster, you have issues like this.
IrishSniper87
macrumors regular
As opposed to buying a Dell or any PC, where it comes Pre-installed with piles of freeware and crap.
Unchecking a box to keep safari off your machine is hardly an injustice, nor is it even difficult.
I find it funny that Microsoft is attacking Apple pricing, when the cheapest solution BY FAR is to build your own computer and install Linux for free. There is a "Microsoft" tax. But alas, most people wouldn't know where to start when it comes to building there own machine, so they order that Dell or Lenovo and think they are getting a deal. All that freeware and bloatware helps Dell make some serious money.
Eidorian
macrumors Penryn
Because I've wasted so much time reinstalling Windows Vista. (Which I haven't.)
My 4 Time Machine restores are barely worth mentioning as well but it's just baseless and annoying to hear people spouting off the same tired old FUD about OS X or Windows. This isn't 1998.
firstapple
macrumors 6502a
I most definitely agree with this statement. Every time I am in Best Buy, the Apple section is crazy busy. People may not be buying them at that time, but the interest is definitely there. No one goes and "ooh's" and "aah's" at Windows computers because they already know what kind of crap they are likely getting.
The same goes for Apple stores, I have never been in such crowded places before. Apple is becoming a huge competitor to Microsoft, and it won't end any time soon... If anything, Microsoft is just adding fuel to the fire with the commercials. Apple is just sitting back and watching right now, but I am sure they have something up there sleeves.
IrishSniper87
macrumors regular
Yeah, the Mac guy in the store is a PAIN, but he is a total fanboy, and that is crazy annoying.
However, the MacBook lets you upgrade the RAM and HDD easily enough. I mean, laptops are not that upgradeable to begin with.
The iMac is an all-in-one, and most of them are not upgradeable either. It's a downside for some, but if you keep having to upgrade parts in a computer, your not saving very much money.
If you want a gaming rig, never buy it, always build it yourself. I could make a pretty slick gaming rig for $600.