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Microsoft Remains on Offensive with 'Apple Tax' Report and Latest Laptop Ad
- Thread starter Eidorian
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Agree that there's many factors ... and for this one, I believe that I've simplistically referred to this as the "Not Windows" consumer.
However, my "better?" point was merely to recognize that there isn't any one single "Best OS" for all consumers / all applications, even when we're trying to be purely and dispassionately objective.
Yes, its in Apple's financial interests to play the role of underdog and rogue.
Thus said, claims of being different (/better) will play a role of getting the first sale from a customer, but to get the 2nd sale, this differentiation ...and real-or-perceieved product superiority... then has to be delivered upon in order to keep that individual as a consumer.
Agreed. The iPod "Halo" was the watershed for opening consumer's eyes, IMO.
Agreed wholeheartedly, on both points. Part of the shortcomings on the former tend to be in communication .. often both ways .. when an Evangelism is rebuffed with a: "thank-you, but I'm not interested, since back when I was 10 years old, we had a then-6-year-old Mac in our classroom". To be fair to Windows, Vista is vastly improved versus when it first came out, but MS is going to continue to have acceptance problems (and IMO with Win7 too) because their business model often relies on their hardware vendors to write the required new drivers rather than doing these in-house themselves. As such, what this really means is that MS has successfully offloaded to others much of their OS development heavy lifting, which means that the true cost of developing Vista was actually a lot more than just the $6B that MS reportedly spent.
-hh
It's not a bad advertisement. Not as effective as the Apple campaigns, but atleast they're trying something out.
As much as the reasons for the customers not purchasing Mac notebooks are minimal and absurd in some cases, it's advertising, so it's bound to lean one way.
The one thing the ads are effective in conveying is that price point wise the PC notebooks are significantly cheaper then the Apple counterparts, but they don't really compare the features and show you what you get and what you miss in both.
As much as the reasons for the customers not purchasing Mac notebooks are minimal and absurd in some cases, it's advertising, so it's bound to lean one way.
The one thing the ads are effective in conveying is that price point wise the PC notebooks are significantly cheaper then the Apple counterparts, but they don't really compare the features and show you what you get and what you miss in both.
That's the price vendors pay to enable their device to be used by a wider audience. It is not a fair comparison between Windows and Mac - not on the drivers/supported devices front.
If you want to use a fancy device for which no driver exists on the Mac - you are out of luck. Even if there are in some rare cases drivers from third party for the Mac they often are poorly written and there is nothing Apple does to straighten that situation. Microsoft on the other hand goes a long way with WHQL and works very closely with hardware manufacturers to make sure the drivers work well enough.
And with the kind of hardware that Windows supports - you are bound to have bugs that will get corrected - that does not really translate into non-acceptance as the bugs are fixed fairly fast - Microsoft gets a lot of feedback - from enterprise customers, from consumers via the bug reporting / driver crash feedback mechanism that Windows comes bundled with. So if a third party driver is crashing Windows, they are in a position to work with the vendor to get it fixed.
I would also argue that device driver development cost is not a part of developing Windows itself - it is funded by the sales of the device as opposed to sales of Windows - and manufacturers do that to enable people to use their devices, which is the device manufacturer's bread and butter.
Lastest Microsoft Real Person. . .Frank the Bum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs
Always good humor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs
Always good humor!
*looks at Apple's stock*
Seems these aren't having quite the impact that Microsoft wanted.
I just hate that these obviously staged ads are being shown like they are real. At least the Mac ads were two actors doing a skit that was actually humorous.
Seems these aren't having quite the impact that Microsoft wanted.
I just hate that these obviously staged ads are being shown like they are real. At least the Mac ads were two actors doing a skit that was actually humorous.
I groaned when they were sold on Blu-Ray. If you want to watch HD, DONT DO IT ON A LAPTOP!!! It may look cool, but its too small to see a very noticeable difference. And, if its free, why not get the best computer possible for you money(refurbished MacBook 2.4GHz!). At least it's Sony - they make my favorite(least detested) PCs. Oh, and whether "they agree" or not, it's a PC. Good luck spending any leftovers on crappy software, virus protection, and therapy from all those troubles Vista gives you!
SG
BTW, I know they're just acting, I'm just ranting about what is obviously a skit put on with bad actors from Microsoft.
SG
BTW, I know they're just acting, I'm just ranting about what is obviously a skit put on with bad actors from Microsoft.
Not in analog format, it can't. Further, outputting over the optical has to be qualified as
(1) it isn't capable of encoding a 5.1 signal on the fly
(2) it has to be attached to an appropriate receiver over SPDIF
(3) it can only work with pre-packaged 512kbps DD or 768kbps/1.4mbps DTS passed out over SPDIF.
No Mac has multichannel analog out. The X-Fi does.
No Mac can encode DD or DTS on the fly. Some nVidia motherboards can.
How do I listen to multichannel FLAC (or WMA or MP3) files on a Mac? How do I listen to DVD-Audio on a Mac? Simple, the same way you watch Blu-Ray on a Mac -- you don't. But the Mac is the king of multimedia and all that...
I'd take that bet in a heartbeat. I can tell. Especially with music that I've listened to hundreds or thousands of times in my life. I'm not 18 years old.
And OWNING a lot of 96k or 192k music DOES prove that I at least listen to it and have some basis for my opinion, instead of just spouting off with no actual "seat time"or basis in reality, wink wink. One of us listens to multichannel high-res music, the other doesn't. Take it from there, dear readers.
That's a good point. I never notice them either until they're well into the spot. The 'Hello I'm a Mac' ads can be pretty lame but they never fail to grab you from the start. Advertisers need to realize that a lot of us have been brought up on a steady diet of violence and punk rock... you might have to yell if you want our attention.
Agreed, although it does have to enter into the Win-Mac dialog as soon as we start to talk about things like why there's a price differential.
In simplest form, the fixed development costs for the OS is (using a 95%-5% market share split) roughly a 20:1 advantage for Microsoft when it comes to how that eventually has to get amortized.
Sure, and its merely a question of how the hardware side is provided with an incentives to develop.
Lacking any carrot from Apple, there's a much greater return-on-investment on the Windows side, even when there's no carrot from Windows either. That's simple market share math.
The problem for MS with WHQL remains that a 3rd party vendor can't be forced to participate: its a voluntary choice, and then on his own schedule, nto Microsoft's. This is essentially what contributed to the Vista drivers non-availability blackeye at launch...
...and this was an example of how MS needs to also think about how to provide incentives. See below.
I'd say that its open to debate: in simplest form, we can't run a system without having the hardware work, so someone's driver is necessary. Since the cost can't be avoided, it has to be considered/included somehow.
This work is more generally included in Apple's OS development, because they're a vertically integrated hardware developer...
However, for MS, since they don't sell PC hardware, they're able to functionally avoid much more of this expense by basically reminding the hardware producers that if they don't write a new driver for their hardware at their own expense, they'll lose sales to one of their otehr hardware competitors, since they're all in competition with each other.
In any case, my main reason for mentioning this was merely to point out that the more complete cost for Vista development was more than just MS's $6B, but also whatever the hardware vendors had to kick in, to keep their hardware on the playing field. Given how long the MS Longhorn-Vista dragged on, it shouldn't be too surprising that they held their resources back. MS really does need to think about how to provide incentives for their hardware partners, but for Win7, they're functionally dodging that bullet since Win7 is Vista under the skin. It solves the problem for today, but not longer term...a similar form of short-sightedness that's in these Ads, since they only look at "Today's price out the door".
-hh
But the target demographic that's the least satisfied with Windows *is* the lower end of the consumer segment, because those are guys like my brother-in-law who can't manage a Windows PC and thus end up with a virus-infested, fragmented POS. People who have to call their "computer nerd friend" to set up WiFi password protection. A professional who buys a PC equivalent to the Mac Pro wasn't born yesterday and has already said no thanks to OS X for whatever reason. The ones who are the most likely, most persuadable candidates for switching are the ones who either can't afford a Mac or aren't willing to spend that kind of money on a computer.
And if they're not targeting that demographic (despite not having any products in their price range), then who are the "I'm a Mac" ads for? They talk about stuff like documenting a family vacation, getting help from a Genius with transferring files from PC to Mac etc... these are n00b ads intended for people like my mom.
I groaned when they were sold on Blu-Ray. If you want to watch HD, DONT DO IT ON A LAPTOP!!! It may look cool, but its too small to see a very noticeable difference. And, if its free, why not get the best computer possible for you money(refurbished MacBook 2.4GHz!). At least it's Sony - they make my favorite(least detested) PCs. Oh, and whether "they agree" or not, it's a PC. Good luck spending any leftovers on crappy software, virus protection, and therapy from all those troubles Vista gives you!
SG
BTW, I know they're just acting, I'm just ranting about what is obviously a skit put on with bad actors from Microsoft.
How can 'Watching HD look cool' on a laptop, but you can't see a noticeable difference? Buy a laptop with vga/dvi/hdmi out, and you can plug it in a tv, they're portable machines.
Maybe they're you least detested pc, they're my most. Charging extra for the same product without trialware installed is more irritating to me than not having the option. Their hardware is generally pretty expensive compared to the competition and from my experience, some of the worst built. Lots of propiatory features with no open support, often just sonys legendary software engineering... If a company ever warranted abuse from 'tech fans' for bad practice, it's them - and still people buy it because they often look ok and had a reputation for making decent crt screens in the '80s.
And in 1997 when DVD came out, people said DVD would never replace VHS. When is the last time you saw a VHS cassette in a store?
Blu-Ray may never completely replace DVD (after all DVD is still cheap and "good enough" for the low end). However, I think those of you thinking it will go away and die should take note of how well it is doing some two years into its life -- for the latest crop of hit movies, 1/4 of the home sales were on Blu-Ray and the remaining 3/4 on DVD. Well ahead of DVD's percentage at the same stages in their lives. Blu-Ray is here to stay and it's healthy.
And the benefits (1080p video and lossless 48-24 sound) outweigh the drawbacks of the DRM.
At least not on these substandard 1440x900 displays that Apple uses on its 13" and 15" notebooks.
Now on the 17" MacBook Pro's 1920x1080 display, I bet you will see a noticeable difference.
And since you own a Mac and have no capability to play a Blu-Ray, just exactly how would you know it's too small to see a very noticeable difference? Cause, you know, I have a 15" Thinkpad with a 1680x1050 display and a Blu-Ray drive, and I do see a very noticeable difference.
Don't tell me you're offering an opinion based on absolutely nothing but Apple worship...
FYI, I don't have a laptop, and this is based off of what I have seen of my friends PC. When compared to the DVD I had of the same movie, there was very little difference between them, albeit some, but most definitely not a feature to be sold on for a laptop. On a desktop, I'll still be irked, but its reasonable then when you get a decent size screen. But NEVER BE SOLD ON A LAPTOB BECAUSE OF BLU-RAY!!!! Just isn't that important. Heck, it's painful to watch anything long on a 13" screen... use your t.v. people. Don't get me wrong, I eagerly await the arrival of blu-ray to macs, because I would like to be able to watch full HD on my 24" iMac.
SG
OK, but don't you notice a considerable difference when you watch QuickTime HD trailers? The difference is huge even on a 13" screen, you can count the pores on an actress' nose no matter how much make-up they tried to cover it up with... not that this is the point of HD.FYI, I don't have a laptop, and this is based off of what I have seen of my friends PC. When compared to the DVD I had of the same movie, there was very little difference between them, albeit some, but most definitely not a feature to be sold on for a laptop. On a desktop, I'll still be irked, but its reasonable then when you get a decent size screen. But NEVER BE SOLD ON A LAPTOB BECAUSE OF BLU-RAY!!!! Just isn't that important. Heck, it's painful to watch anything long on a 13" screen... use your t.v. people. Don't get me wrong, I eagerly await the arrival of blu-ray to macs, because I would like to be able to watch full HD on my 24" iMac.
SG
Isn't this really just one of those things that are deemed unimportant/superfluous/worthless when Macs or other Apple products don't have them, but suddenly become the best thing ever when Apple eventually catches up? I've noticed this pattern many times in the past. As long as the iPhone has a crappy 2 mpixel cam, it's "personally I don't care" and "who needs a camera on a phone anyway?", but I'll guarantee you that the day the iPhone gets a 3 or 5 megapixel camera it's suddenly an essential feature, and phones with no camera or lower resolution than whatever iPhone has are laughable and should be destroyed for having the audacity to be behind the times.
I do notice a difference on on a laptop, but not enough to pay more for a blu-ray disc, player, or computer. On a desktop, sure, add the feature, but not worth the $$$ most computer maker charge. BTW my friends laptop was a cheaper product, probably with a low resolution, so it's probably not a fair comparison, just all I've seenOK, but don't you notice a considerable difference when you watch QuickTime HD trailers? The difference is huge even on a 13" screen, you can count the pores on an actress' nose no matter how much make-up they tried to cover it up with... not that this is the point of HD.
It is, but honestly, I wont care that much seeing as I have an old tube t.v., DVD player, VHS player, game-cube... not the latest video tech...
I too am irked by the iPhone camera, because it isn't as good as my cheapo Samsung SYNC camera. Same resolution, but with video. What the heck Apple? When it get video capabilities, I won't be that excited by future camera revolutions, but it may make me want one more ; )
I'm sure that you meant this as
"The improvements in Windows 7 are almost completely compatible with the binary APIs (Application Programming Interfaces) of Windows Vista, so that only a very few kernel drivers and even fewer user applications will need to be updated to work with Windows 7."
and not as
"Windows 7 is a new UI theme for Windows Vista."
The issue is that I've purchased quite a few BDs for my home theatre, and I'd like to watch them when I'm on the go.
For me, that's the point of a BD drive on a laptop, not any belief that a laptop is the ultimate video display.
(And, I'm surprised that people say that they can't tell the difference between a 640x480 (NTSC) picture upscaled by about a factor of two, and a 1920x1080 picture scaled down.)
LOL - I remember the "... who needs a CD writer..." days.
That's debatable. While its likely that they would benefit more, that doesn't mean that they're also willing to pay the Mac's price of entry: they're IMO more likely to be the ones that ends up scrapping something major every 2 years, and/or paying someone $100 to do a wipe-and-reinstall.
Why should a Pro bother to get a workstation for at home when there's a better workstation...or even a mini-cluster...at work that gets things like his LS-DYNA model run 10x faster?
Similarly, the Pro/E model that's going to go through the slicer for the Stereo Lithography ... the home's internet connection's low bandwidth for the file transfer will be a huge bottleneck.
Its interesting to see who will "Step Up" to open their wallet. Frankly, I was modestly surprised when my brother dropped the change for a 24" iMac last month. BTW, he is a white collar 'professional' type.
They're intended to be icebreakers for those who assume that there's no alternative to Windows...the "platform-of-use" as MikeTheC said.
And talking about vacations instead of work is emphatically intended to emphasize that a PC isn't only about just work. Hence, staire like this:
versus this result from iPhoto.
-hh
Lol yes that was very funny.
Apple makes a quality product. I'll never use another PC again and I'm perfectly content with that. If someone else wants to use a PC go right ahead, I know I'm using a much better machine with much better software.
I would never watch BD movies on my laptop anyway, simply because I don't watch DVDs now. I either watch movies on my iPod Touch, or DVDs encoded to Quicktime on my hard drive (that I own). I just don't see the attraction of carrying a wad of disks on the train or plane, and when I'm home I've got a big plasma screen to watch movies on.
Obviously that's my personal anecdote, but there has to be more people out there than just me that use their computers as.....computers.
Obviously that's my personal anecdote, but there has to be more people out there than just me that use their computers as.....computers.
HH:
No, I agree with the essence of the points you were trying to get across. I merely differ in some of the terminology, and the principle reason for that is, especially in these perilous computer platform times, we need to be precise about what we say. The points you followed on with in response to my post are well received.
On balance, though, Parapup, take a look at the Linux community, which has done a highly commendable (not absolutely perfect, but then look at the realities they face) job in getting drivers written, perfected, and distributed for a wide range of devices. Arguably, there's better driver support in Linux than on the Mac, and that's with Apple paying companies to write drivers for them, or paying and signing NDAs and writing the drivers themselves.
I think a far better yardstick for Apple (and the Mac-using community) to use when it comes to driver availability is Linux. I mean, Microsoft is like Walmart. If you make a device, it is automatically assumed you're going to write a Win32/Win64/Win7/etc. driver for it. If you didn't, then who would you be able to sell the device to after all?
Consider that, even right now, every single software and hardware vendor (well, ok, maybe a few exceptions -- but a very few) could just up and walk away from the Mac platform and not have to care that they'd left us high and dry. Regardless of Apple's positioning and influence, this is still not truly Apple's ball that everyone's dancing at. Apple would be very wise, I think, to simply include GPL'd drivers (obviously they'd need to vigorously QA control their picks). It couldn't hurt. Heck, Apple bought up the guy who writes CUPS. I'm not saying Apple should try to buy up every F/OSS developer (and I think they should strongly fight back if Apple tried) but Apple needs to understand it could have a lot more friends out there among its co-Microsoft-combatants.