Microsoft Reveals New Band 2, Lumia Phones, Surface Pro 4, and Surface Book

[adamr7]

Apple tried that, and it almost bankrupted them. It was the first thing Steve Jobs got rid of when he came back to Apple. The clone program didn't fail due to faulty implementation either, the idea was just a bad business model, which is the same reason Microsoft is moving into hardware - it's where all of the profit is at. It's interesting to see Microsoft entering the "PC" hardware market now, though, at a time when the market is in major decline and everything is moving towards tablets and smart phones - something they already have products in. I'm surprised they didn't stick with just tablets/conventional "2-in-1s". As great as their new laptop may or may not be, I don't see it selling well because there isn't much of a market for it. I think the surface is where all of their potential profit lies, especially since, unlike when it was first introduces, the technology is now there to create a mostly practical "2-in-1". There's still a ways to go, so it'll be interesting to see who the first is to bridge that gap completely, as the iPad Pro is a clear move in this direction.

When Microsoft originally came out with the Surface (under Ballmer) the reason was for profits. I think Ballmer even said at one time he looked at two of their most profitable competitiors (Apple and Samsung) and saw they both make hardware and determined Microsoft needed to as well.

I don't think that Satya Nadella shares this same vision with hardware. Microsoft wants to show off all of the features of Windows and inspire other OEMs to make devices. Microsoft intends to introduce new categories.

Microsoft is getting rid of the distinction between a laptop and tablet. Their view is different from Apple and Google. I think it is safe to say that Microsoft has the hardware nailed. Now they need to get the software on that level. Time will tell.

I think the Surface Book makes much more sense compared to the rumored 14 inch SP4. The SB is very much a 2 in 1 but fits the mold of a traditional laptop.

 

[smoledman]

When Microsoft originally came out with the Surface (under Ballmer) the reason was for profits. I think Ballmer even said at one time he looked at two of their most profitable competitiors (Apple and Samsung) and saw they both make hardware and determined Microsoft needed to as well.

I don't think that Satya Nadella shares this same vision with hardware. Microsoft wants to show off all of the features of Windows and inspire other OEMs to make devices. Microsoft intends to introduce new categories.

Microsoft is getting rid of the distinction between a laptop and tablet. Their view is different from Apple and Google. I think it is safe to say that Microsoft has the hardware nailed. Now they need to get the software on that level. Time will tell.

I think the Surface Book makes much more sense compared to the rumored 14 inch SP4. The SB is very much a 2 in 1 but fits the mold of a traditional laptop.

Surface Book has the potential to be a breakthrough device for Microsoft.

 

[Atlantico]

You have no idea what the hell you are saying in any way. Have you used windows? at all? I've been using Windows since back in the days of 3.0.

I've also been using OSx for a good chunk of my life.

I've also used Linux extensively. BSD variants, I get stuck using AIX and I've even had some fun playing with OS's like OS2 warp, and BeOS.

There are pros and cons to every OS. Windows greatest strength is the "STart" button. Because of it's simplicity at putting virtually every single User interaction in one spot that is easy to find and use (although in Win 8.0, its removal was disastrous).

The "metro" start tile screens is actually quite a joy to use. The FULL SCREEN nature of it was NOT. don't confuse the two. The problem with 8.x's start screen wasn't that it changed to tiles for icons instead of lists of folders, but that it was workflow breaking. Opening start menu completely broke your workflow by overriding your entire display with itself. On Top of that, the biggest knock against Windows 8 was not even start menu related, but the multiple personality disorder it suffered from. There were two sets of settings, in two completely unrelated places. Windows Store Apps could only run full screen, or 1/2 screen. and the Desktop itself completely operated in it's own world. there was very little flow and it was purely split in nature.

All of these issues have been remedied in Win10. The start menu preserves the benefits of the live tiles (and whether you like that or the old folder list is subjective, can't change your mind there), while returning to the old, workflow friendly start menu functionality of being unobtrusive, and an All in one place to do all your OS level interaction.

I'm not sure why you think the start menu was "retarded", other than you have your own personal preference. And that is ok. OSx is a great OS too. The Dock is a wonderful feature, so much so that Windows had incorporated similar functionality to the Taskbar back in windows 7. OSx's Application management is far simpler, and far greater. And it's trackpad support beats the pants off anything windows has to offer, even in Windows 10. Expose, while mimmicked in Win10 is still better functioning. But OSx still suffers from a UI disjointedness, that isn't necessarily easier for everyone. They need to do something to unify Finder and the Dock. And, while I have yet to get El Capitan installed, Their fullscreen multi-window support looks more like Windows 8 than I wish.


In the end of the day, Both Windows 10 and OSx are fantastic Operating systems (Although BOTH could use a filesystem overhaul). You wont go wrong with using either if you have the programs you want on your choice. But your need to insult it, while not providing any anecdotal, tangible, or even statistical reasons why its' "retarded" only makes you out to sound like an ignorant individual who has no real experiences with different operating systems.

Wow the epic nerdrage. Chill down. I'll do you the courtesy of responding in full, so apologies to other forum users for the following wall of text. Now to my response to you mr. touch-typist.

Nobody, literally nobody, cares what you claim to have used, how much an expert you think you are on any subject. You're just espousing your completely personal opinions, with banalities as "Windows greatest strength is the 'STart' button" (sic) which makes no sense - there was a perfectly fine Start button in Windows 8.1 and the greatest strengths of any OS isn't found in a button...

but you're not talking about the Start button, you're actually talking about the Start Menu, but being the expert you are you can't even get the terms right. Whatever. Perhaps all these years working in front of all those computers had an adverse affect? Who knows, who cares. Apperently you don't:

Here's an ironic example:

Windows 8 was absolutely horrible. That bloody banner that pops up accross your entire screen. That default option is "reboot now" caused me to lose work a few times. I type, fast, and generally without looking at what I type (Touch Typist). Do you know how many times that window popped up, took my next enter, or my next space key as assent to reboot?

You, with all your "amazing" knowledge didn't know you could completely turn off Windows updates in Windows 8, so the OS would literally *never* prompt you to restart, update or otherwise bother you in any way, shape or form. Evidently you simply did not know this. When it's actually the easiest thing, to turn off updates permanently in Windows 8.

Yet you expect people to take you seriously when even basic knowledge of the OS is severely lacking on your part. In fact you mostly spout nonsense mr. touch-typist. And I don't say this flippantly, rather to underline that your opinions are perhaps colored by your limited knowledge. I would hate it if what happened to you, had happened to me, but because I know more than you on this topic, evidently, it never happened to me.

I'm clearly not the uber-expert you are with your decades of experience on multiple systems, but I managed to turn the whole thing off in about 2 minutes. Or less. Who remembers.

The claim that the Start Menu was somehow "simple", is just your own biased opinion. It was a complete mess of shortcuts and submenus and piles of nonsense on any user's PC. Looking through a Start Menu makes normal people go cross-eyed, because it's so stupid.

This:

vs. this:

The Start Menu and the Start Screen. A stupid list or *anything you want* the way you want it.

Pile up a bunch of small icons, if that's your thing. Make them large, have many, have few, put them wherever you want, where it is convenient. The Start Screen is a launcher and a damn good and versatile one at that too.

Click the down arrow, and you get your huge list of apps/programs/porn/whatever.

Start typing, and the OS starts searching. Have the background transparent, if that's your thing. The Start Screen is in so many ways better than the ancient and incredibly limited Start Menu.

The Start Screen is the hub of the computer, central control, where you Start. For the first time ever, the name makes at least some amount of sense.

You're not *right* about your opinions, you'll *never* be right about that, because it's your opinion - not a right or wrong issue. The ironic thing is that you seem cognitively capable of understanding that there are such things as personal opinions and you quite correctly point out that it is indeed *my* opinion that the Start Menu is and always has been a retarded mess, but so is all the drivel you wrote *your* opinion - and you just seem incapable of comprehending that amazing little tidbit.


The Start Menu of Windows 10 has nothing to do with whatever came before, save for a superficial similarity in appearance. It is a scaled down Start Screen, which just isn't *the* Start Menu - and many, many users who actually know what they are talking about have put their money where their mouth is and bought third party solutions to bring something to Windows 10 that is actually a Start Menu, not a mini-Start Screen.

Which is exactly the reason for why the Start Menu of Windows 10 is also retarded, just in a new way. A mini-Start Screen doesn't do anything except hide useful information otherwise brought by the live-tiles and constricts the user's options simply by being tiny. It brings *nothing* useful which isn't done better in the Start Screen.

That's why it is completely disingenuous to applaud the "return" of the Start Menu in Windows 10, like Microsoft PR prefers to present it, because it's not - it's a limited and scaled down Start Screen, which is infuriatingly annoying because that kinda takes the whole point of the Start Screen and waters it down to something less tasty. It's ok, but stupid. Which is in all fairness a huge improvement of the old Start Menu, which was just stupid.

Fortunately, switching to the Start Screen and turning off the stupid Start Menu, is but a flick of a switch away in the Settings of Windows 10, so in the end I never have to see that thing any more than I want to.

The OS X Dock is another UI mess that is easier to ignore than try to fix, apparently. Somehow I'm not surprised you're a fan.

And this isn't about OS X vs. Windows, use whatever you like. Who cares? Yes they're both damn good operating systems and nobody goes wrong by choosing either of them. Your claim that I "insulted" a program or an OS, well damn I didn't realize I hurt their feelings... are you serious? Is this line written by a person with a firm grasp on reality? :

"But your need to insult it, while not providing any anecdotal, tangible, or even statistical reasons why its' "retarded" only makes you out to sound like an ignorant individual who has no real experiences with different operating systems."

I have my doubts. Your pathetic attempt to isolate me in this discussion is also quite pathetic, I am far from alone in being of the opinion that the Start Menu is a retarded mess and was happy to see it gone in Windows 8.

I noticed that you did not offer any "anecdotal, tangible, or even statistical reasons" for why the Start Menu is such an awesome thing. Not that it matters, I'm sure you have your reasons. That's why it's called an "opinion".

 

[Bah-Bah]

I really like what Microsoft are doing at the moment. I've been in the Apple eco system for about 10 years and I've seen it peak and now start to trough, in comparison to the other devices other companies are creating now.

I'm tired of not being able to have the device that exactly fits my needs because Apple are too concerned about preventing cannibalization in their product line. They haven't made something like the Surface Book because they want you to buy a laptop and an iPad and carry both around with you if you need them. Many people on these forums have said "Just give me a Macbook Air with a Retina screen" but no....If you want something like that you have to settle for one USB port which is so new you'll need a host of adapters just to get some functionality out of it.

What we've needed (and I believe what we're now getting) is a company that acknowledges those consumer demands and provides them. If the Surface Book sells well, hopefully it will lead to Apple taking note like they eventually did with larger screen phones and offering a table with stylus support. Who knows, they might even make a tablet with an x86 CPU in it that can run proper desktop OS and have a file system.

That's not to say there isn't a time to innovate and come up with new product categories like Apple have done so well. But Apple have also shown an unwillingness to follow through and keep the evolution going....Preferring instead to drip feed small improvements.

I hope Microsoft keep this up....We all need the competition to push things forward.

 

[Swoliosis]

Wow the epic nerdrage. Chill down. I'll do you the courtesy of responding in full, so apologies to other forum users for the following wall of text. Now to my response to you mr. touch-typist.

Nobody, literally nobody, cares what you claim to have used, how much an expert you think you are on any subject. You're just espousing your completely personal opinions, with banalities as "Windows greatest strength is the 'STart' button" (sic) which makes no sense - there was a perfectly fine Start button in Windows 8.1 and the greatest strengths of any OS isn't found in a button...

but you're not talking about the Start button, you're actually talking about the Start Menu, but being the expert you are you can't even get the terms right. Whatever. Perhaps all these years working in front of all those computers had an adverse affect? Who knows, who cares. Apperently you don't:

Here's an ironic example:


You, with all your "amazing" knowledge didn't know you could completely turn off Windows updates in Windows 8, so the OS would literally *never* prompt you to restart, update or otherwise bother you in any way, shape or form. Evidently you simply did not know this. When it's actually the easiest thing, to turn off updates permanently in Windows 8.

Yet you expect people to take you seriously when even basic knowledge of the OS is severely lacking on your part. In fact you mostly spout nonsense mr. touch-typist. And I don't say this flippantly, rather to underline that your opinions are perhaps colored by your limited knowledge. I would hate it if what happened to you, had happened to me, but because I know more than you on this topic, evidently, it never happened to me.

I'm clearly not the uber-expert you are with your decades of experience on multiple systems, but I managed to turn the whole thing off in about 2 minutes. Or less. Who remembers.

The claim that the Start Menu was somehow "simple", is just your own biased opinion. It was a complete mess of shortcuts and submenus and piles of nonsense on any user's PC. Looking through a Start Menu makes normal people go cross-eyed, because it's so stupid.

This:

vs. this:

The Start Menu and the Start Screen. A stupid list or *anything you want* the way you want it.

Pile up a bunch of small icons, if that's your thing. Make them large, have many, have few, put them wherever you want, where it is convenient. The Start Screen is a launcher and a damn good and versatile one at that too.

Click the down arrow, and you get your huge list of apps/programs/porn/whatever.

Start typing, and the OS starts searching. Have the background transparent, if that's your thing. The Start Screen is in so many ways better than the ancient and incredibly limited Start Menu.

The Start Screen is the hub of the computer, central control, where you Start. For the first time ever, the name makes at least some amount of sense.

You're not *right* about your opinions, you'll *never* be right about that, because it's your opinion - not a right or wrong issue. The ironic thing is that you seem cognitively capable of understanding that there are such things as personal opinions and you quite correctly point out that it is indeed *my* opinion that the Start Menu is and always has been a retarded mess, but so is all the drivel you wrote *your* opinion - and you just seem incapable of comprehending that amazing little tidbit.


The Start Menu of Windows 10 has nothing to do with whatever came before, save for a superficial similarity in appearance. It is a scaled down Start Screen, which just isn't *the* Start Menu - and many, many users who actually know what they are talking about have put their money where their mouth is and bought third party solutions to bring something to Windows 10 that is actually a Start Menu, not a mini-Start Screen.

Which is exactly the reason for why the Start Menu of Windows 10 is also retarded, just in a new way. A mini-Start Screen doesn't do anything except hide useful information otherwise brought by the live-tiles and constricts the user's options simply by being tiny. It brings *nothing* useful which isn't done better in the Start Screen.

That's why it is completely disingenuous to applaud the "return" of the Start Menu in Windows 10, like Microsoft PR prefers to present it, because it's not - it's a limited and scaled down Start Screen, which is infuriatingly annoying because that kinda takes the whole point of the Start Screen and waters it down to something less tasty. It's ok, but stupid. Which is in all fairness a huge improvement of the old Start Menu, which was just stupid.

Fortunately, switching to the Start Screen and turning off the stupid Start Menu, is but a flick of a switch away in the Settings of Windows 10, so in the end I never have to see that thing any more than I want to.

The OS X Dock is another UI mess that is easier to ignore than try to fix, apparently. Somehow I'm not surprised you're a fan.

And this isn't about OS X vs. Windows, use whatever you like. Who cares? Yes they're both damn good operating systems and nobody goes wrong by choosing either of them. Your claim that I "insulted" a program or an OS, well damn I didn't realize I hurt their feelings... are you serious? Is this line written by a person with a firm grasp on reality? :

"But your need to insult it, while not providing any anecdotal, tangible, or even statistical reasons why its' "retarded" only makes you out to sound like an ignorant individual who has no real experiences with different operating systems."

I have my doubts. Your pathetic attempt to isolate me in this discussion is also quite pathetic, I am far from alone in being of the opinion that the Start Menu is a retarded mess and was happy to see it gone in Windows 8.

I noticed that you did not offer any "anecdotal, tangible, or even statistical reasons" for why the Start Menu is such an awesome thing. Not that it matters, I'm sure you have your reasons. That's why it's called an "opinion".

Let me start by saying I was a huge proponent of the start screen when it came out as I enjoy live tiles. There was a ton of backlash, IIRC, with the move to the start screen. I definitely know I spent a decent amount of time arguing in favor of it online and was usually in the minority. What, if any even exist publicly, the numbers were for reception, I have no idea admittedly.

That said, I personally like the new start menu in W10 and don't see it as much of a compromise for those who wanted something similar/familiar to the previous start menu. It's smaller, sure, but I've never felt that it was to small. And it can be customized as you can make the menu larger/smaller and do all the usual tile customization from W8.

The most recently used is a nice addition and newly installed is definitely better in W10 than it was in 8 IMO. Most used is also nice because it lessens up clutter of the ugly static tiles. A lot of the time I never even open up the live tiles and use simply for glanceability.

Also, keep in mind that you can search pretty much just like in W8 on W10. Press the windows button and start typing, press windows button + S, put the cursor in the search bar, or use the all apps menu + jump list. Personally, I like that the charms bar has been merged with the start menu. Makes things a bit simpler.

For me, I actually have found out that I like the fact that I don't jump into a different area on W10 like when using the screen from 8 and find stuff like the sleeker all apps menu (down arrow on W8) on the side of the start menu in W10 more pleasing to the eye than the mess/clutter, imo, on W8. And if size is a big issue for you--it's not for me--you can make the start menu go full screen by changing it in settings.IMO, the below gif is pretty solid and not much compromise especially considering you can still go full screen if resizing doesn't work for you.

Also, I hear snarkiness is a precursor to high blood pressure. Ya better watch out.

 

[MacAddict1978]

YAWN, seriously they ape'd the macbook pro so close then totally ruined it with that awful hinge and hinge gap! The major downside of all this MS tech is windows, which stinks so bad, especially on a phone. They really are gonna feel so much pain on all these products as they fail to sell in any meaningful numbers at any meaningful prices. MS should just sell office and be done with it.

1. How do you know it stinks on a phone since since the new OS was just shown off on a phone this day? Apps... yeah, they need love, but the new universal app format should fix a lot of that. But if Apple let your iPhone run full OSX and show it on any screen, you'd think it was the greatest thing in the world. That's a pretty amazing feature of the new Win10 phones. For work purposes, that's really compelling. Instead of hooking up a lap top or something, lugging hardware around, if I have to present or do a meeting in a conference room I could just plug in my phone. That gives MS a huge edge in the business segment, since business is well rung into the MS echosytem and apple really doesn't exist there.
2. Windows 10 is VERY good. So good, when I am using it I don't want to smash something and curse that I am not on my Mac good. Its mostly everything I would have though OSX would be and would have been FIRST.
3. The hinge is different, but I like it. It's something unique and innovative. And from..... MS..... Gasp..... innovative and MS are getting used in the same sentence a ton lately.
4. This might finally push apple to do what they should have done first.... Apple is so all about touch, yet has refused to bring it to the Mac.... in fact, the mac is like the red headed step child in Cupertino. I can't remember the last time I was excited about OSX or Mac hardware. It's been at a standstill with little bumps for years but nothing revolutionary or evolutionary. No one really cares about track pad enhancements.

The new MS is very impressive. They are innovating for the first time in 20 years instead of copying Apple. This is good for everyone. The iPad pro is being widely panned. So far it's shown itself to be great for illustrators. iPads have really only found their way into business and pro use for presentations or kiosk use, never as productivity tools. The iPad pro isn't helping that case either. I work for a billion dollar healthcare organization, and what are we spending our money on? Surface Pros.

 

[smoledman]

*sigh* for the first time I experience Apple's Continuity by getting an iPhone call on my iPad Mini. It was *magical*. I wish Microsoft had this, but they seem too busy pursuing turning a phone into a desktop PC. I'm not saying that Continuum isn't innovative an interesting, but Continuity is innovative in itself and vital.

 

[Xiroteus]

The claim that the Start Menu was somehow "simple", is just your own biased opinion. It was a complete mess of shortcuts and submenus and piles of nonsense on any user's PC. Looking through a Start Menu makes normal people go cross-eyed, because it's so stupid.

This:

vs. this:

The Start Menu and the Start Screen. A stupid list or *anything you want* the way you want it.

That was an issue with the old start menu, not sure why it was never fixed. Everything was their twice and had to be well organized to avoid a mess.

 

[Bah-Bah]

Most of us on these forums would freak out (in a good way) if Apple offered OSX like functionality via our iPhones when plugged in to a Mouse, keyboard and Monitor.

It must surely be possible in theory, the chips in modern phones should have the chops for basic typical desktop usage. Seems ridiculous to suggest otherwise of a device that can edit 4k video.

 

[DNichter]

1. How do you know it stinks on a phone since since the new OS was just shown off on a phone this day? Apps... yeah, they need love, but the new universal app format should fix a lot of that. But if Apple let your iPhone run full OSX and show it on any screen, you'd think it was the greatest thing in the world. That's a pretty amazing feature of the new Win10 phones. For work purposes, that's really compelling. Instead of hooking up a lap top or something, lugging hardware around, if I have to present or do a meeting in a conference room I could just plug in my phone. That gives MS a huge edge in the business segment, since business is well rung into the MS echosytem and apple really doesn't exist there.
2. Windows 10 is VERY good. So good, when I am using it I don't want to smash something and curse that I am not on my Mac good. Its mostly everything I would have though OSX would be and would have been FIRST.
3. The hinge is different, but I like it. It's something unique and innovative. And from..... MS..... Gasp..... innovative and MS are getting used in the same sentence a ton lately.
4. This might finally push apple to do what they should have done first.... Apple is so all about touch, yet has refused to bring it to the Mac.... in fact, the mac is like the red headed step child in Cupertino. I can't remember the last time I was excited about OSX or Mac hardware. It's been at a standstill with little bumps for years but nothing revolutionary or evolutionary. No one really cares about track pad enhancements.

The new MS is very impressive. They are innovating for the first time in 20 years instead of copying Apple. This is good for everyone. The iPad pro is being widely panned. So far it's shown itself to be great for illustrators. iPads have really only found their way into business and pro use for presentations or kiosk use, never as productivity tools. The iPad pro isn't helping that case either. I work for a billion dollar healthcare organization, and what are we spending our money on? Surface Pros.

I had made a bunch of comments earlier in this thread saying what most have been that this isn't very innovative, etc. I re-watched the MS keynote and came away very impressed. I couldn't help but think the whole time that if Apple had done anything close to this (iPhone with OS X when plugged in, detachable MacBook with iPad OS when detached), I would have been completely sold. I think Windows 10 is a step forward for MS, but still prefer OS X and iOS. I just wanted to recant my statements earlier. This is absolutely innovation and I hope it pushes Apple in the same direction.

 

[utopianbl]

I am completely within the Apple ecosystem - and find it hilarious how these closet Apple haters and doomsayers are coming out the woodwork (in a mac forum no less) screaming for apple's blood because of the recent announcements.

Well, I pre ordered the the most expensive configuration of Surface Book on launch day - which retails at $3500 CDN. But as the days run on by, and the initial euphoria dies with new information being disseminated - I'm starting to question my expensive purchase. Here are some notes strictly comparing the top end model of rMBP (currently in stores) vs MS's SB.

1) from the presentation, Panay spoke of "2 extra cpus" compared to the rMBP (hence the infamous twice as fast). But looks like this is a 6th gen Skylake alright - but with a dual core. Dual core being sold in a device >$3k??
2) 1 GB of RAM on the GPU; where as the MBP has 2GB
3) the more I think about it, the biggest selling feature here (compared to the rMBP) is the detachable screen which then is a fully functional tablet. This sounds great, but in practice how much use will I get out of this given it has 3 hours of battery life. That would not last through my usual day's workflow - and I have to reverse flip attach the screen to the main body to get extra juice, it takes the form factor advantage out of this thing
4) a loaded up i7/512gb ssd with 16gb ram set me back around $3500 pretax; for $3100 i am able to get a rMBP with the exact same specs but with 2GB GPU instead. Whats lacking though will be the 6th Gen Skylake proc, and touch screen. I'm starting to wonder if thats enough incentive for me to switch from an Apple dominated cloud I am part of right now.

I love the over the top love and hate for the latest MacBook pro killer - but I'd be giving SB a fair shot once I get it to see if it is a worthwhile purchase enough for me to move away from the Apple ecosystem.

 

[DNichter]

It is a notebook with a removable display and the display itself is an entire tablet. But the tablet part is where the Core i7 CPU, 16GB of RAM and 1TB SSD live. The iPad Pro only goes upto 4GB of RAM and 128GB SSD.

The digitiser pen is what allows designers to draw on the screen with 1024 levels of pressure and extremely high precision. It's important because you can run full desktop class Windows 10 software on it like Adobe Photoshop. You can't run that on the iPad Pro, the software simply doesn't exist.

And you're being ridiculous with your "weighs so much might aswell get a desktop" thing. It's 4 pounds that's nothing, if that's heavy to you then get a gym membership.

I was wrong, you are right. I rewatched the keynote and came away impressed. My thoughts leaned towards if Apple could do this with OS X and iOS, I would be completely sold. Microsoft has made some great strides, not enough for me to switch, but hopefully they can push Apple in the right direction.

 

[Ghost31]

Uh

You totally lost me at "iTunes is an added convenience." This, said by NO ONE.

And who said that? Wasn't me

 

[Yuthopia]

Would you care to give some Details about what exactly is bad about the sp3? We have a few deployed with a salesteam and so far the feedback has been pretty good.
Granted they mainly use office applications and out own sales software that our IT department outfitted with a real cool touch ui, so maybe the usage scenario is very different from yours.
I am mainly interested because I am seriously considering the sp4 (if i come up with more usage in tablet mode) or the sb (if its more usage with the keyboard attached obviously) as my next purchase and would like to know the flaws of the prior generation to be able to check if they fixed it...so, your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Hi. D-Dave.
Sorry for my late reply. Sp4 may become a better one. I think it depends on your usage also. Let me list my problems with sp3 I got.

issues:
1. Power on in the bag. And drain the battery.
2. Can't detect its own keyboard.
(Get better with windows10)
3. Despite sharp Screen, it is always scale to a blurry resolution
4. Ghost mouse. I notice that if there is a strong light source near the sp3. The ghost mouse will happen. Very annoying
5. Screen orientation. Occasionally, flip to 180 degrees when connected to external screen. Look really sad when it happens

6. Screen auto brightness is not working.

Design issues:
1. Keyboard. I can't use it on my lap. Cannot use it in my car. Just not work
2. Screen is too small for over 15 minutes of work. Resolution is just wrong. The fact that we need to use screen scaling just to make the font readable is sad.
3. The magnetic charger is always fall out too easily.
4. Not support sd card. But support micro sd in the Back.

Usage as tablet.
I think everyone agrees that it is useless as tablet.
1. It is way to heavy to hold. Try hold it with one hand for 1 minute.
2. Too hot. And the fan is noisy.
3. Applications do not support tablet mode. Even Office!?
Excel for iOS works really well on mobile. Excel is terribly awkward in tablet mode.
4. No app.
... And much more. I think it is clear that sp3 on tablet mode is quite useless.

So, I ended up have one highly compromised notebook that good at nothing. ... It is light in weight though

 

[D-Dave]

Hi. D-Dave.
Sorry for my late reply. Sp4 may become a better one. I think it depends on your usage also. Let me list my problems with sp3 I got.

issues:
1. Power on in the bag. And drain the battery.
2. Can't detect its own keyboard.
(Get better with windows10)
3. Despite sharp Screen, it is always scale to a blurry resolution
4. Ghost mouse. I notice that if there is a strong light source near the sp3. The ghost mouse will happen. Very annoying
5. Screen orientation. Occasionally, flip to 180 degrees when connected to external screen. Look really sad when it happens

6. Screen auto brightness is not working.

Design issues:
1. Keyboard. I can't use it on my lap. Cannot use it in my car. Just not work
2. Screen is too small for over 15 minutes of work. Resolution is just wrong. The fact that we need to use screen scaling just to make the font readable is sad.
3. The magnetic charger is always fall out too easily.
4. Not support sd card. But support micro sd in the Back.

Usage as tablet.
I think everyone agrees that it is useless as tablet.
1. It is way to heavy to hold. Try hold it with one hand for 1 minute.
2. Too hot. And the fan is noisy.
3. Applications do not support tablet mode. Even Office!?
Excel for iOS works really well on mobile. Excel is terribly awkward in tablet mode.
4. No app.
... And much more. I think it is clear that sp3 on tablet mode is quite useless.

So, I ended up have one highly compromised notebook that good at nothing. ... It is light in weight though

Thank you for sharing your experience...I guess for my usage scenarion it will likely be fine, but I will definitely try it out before buying (especially the lap usage) no preorder for me !!!

 

[maflynn]

issues:
1. Power on in the bag. And drain the battery.
2. Can't detect its own keyboard.
(Get better with windows10)
3. Despite sharp Screen, it is always scale to a blurry resolution
4. Ghost mouse. I notice that if there is a strong light source near the sp3. The ghost mouse will happen. Very annoying
5. Screen orientation. Occasionally, flip to 180 degrees when connected to external screen. Look really sad when it happens
6. Screen auto brightness is not working.

I've not had any of these issues, other then the scaling. Many apps are fine, but some will produce blurry texts.

Design issues:
1. Keyboard. I can't use it on my lap. Cannot use it in my car. Just not work
2. Screen is too small for over 15 minutes of work. Resolution is just wrong. The fact that we need to use screen scaling just to make the font readable is sad.
3. The magnetic charger is always fall out too easily.
4. Not support sd card. But support micro sd in the Back.

I bought the SP3 to use in my lap so your first issue is not one that I've run into - I use it on my lap quite often. I also use it for hours, so I don't think the screen is too small. I agree about the SD card, I wished they put that in there, but for the other issues you document, I've not had those problems.

 

[D-Dave]

I've not had any of these issues, other then the scaling. Many apps are fine, but some will produce blurry texts.



I bought the SP3 to use in my lap so your first issue is not one that I've run into - I use it on my lap quite often. I also use it for hours, so I don't think the screen is too small. I agree about the SD card, I wished they put that in there, but for the other issues you document, I've not had those problems.

Good to hear the experience varies for different users...I am REALY hoping the sp4 will do the trick for me...have been dreaming of a work-pc that goes everywhere with me and supports touch (among other things: we do use a decentralised electronic locking system that requires a windows only app to programm and at every lock which is awesomely easy when using touch...takes 3-4 times as long when doing it with touchpad [dongle gets in the way]) so no more cloud syncing between home pc and work pc plus real dayly offsite backups....gimme gimme gimme ;-)

 

[maflynn]

I think the new type cover will help and I'll also be getting that myself.