Microsoft Reveals New Band 2, Lumia Phones, Surface Pro 4, and Surface Book

[shanson27]

But those are pretty much gimmicks... that add very little to a device experience.

The only one i really use is the fingerprint, not because it's better than anything else - simply because it quicker when it works (assuming you don't have a microbe of water on your finger).

Im sure an MS guy could find equally unique but useless features on their devices, or android for that matter..
I've just re-read this, it's a joke right - car play.. you got me. i admit it..!

You can't catch me, you can't catch me, you can't catch me .......

 

[Acorn]

The thing that hurts the surface pro and is not talked about is the constant throttling. There is lag in photoshop because of this. I think thats the cool part about the ipad pro. There has always been lag with wacom cintiqs and tablet pcs. You move the pen fast and the line appears shortly after. Ii is noticeable and distracting. There is no lag in the ipad pro with the pen. Not sure how microsoft managed to solve this and not wacom but its pretty nice for artists.

 

[radus]

how can you buy something based on a video event ?!?
i mean these type of persons are targeted by Microsoft with these products

because I can and I want do it -- thats it. This surface book is so much superior to all apple has -- there is no question I must have it maxed out (i7, 1tb ssd, docking station). I want to interact with my computer in the most natural way and this is handwriting, speech or eye-contact and if, not to prevent, with the best keyboard/trackpad available.

Apple lost the way to customer satisfaction, at least for me. I want one for all and this is only possible with the surface book.

 

[utopianbl]

As a Mac user - 6, 6+, MBA, MBP, iPad 2nd gen, Apple Watch, Airport - the works, I'm really interested in getting the SP4, or even the surface book.

The question is how does this one device which falls outside the Apple params play with the remaining set of devices? For example while Photos is a step down from Aperture - I like the fact that when I hook up 128GB of storage, it imports my images and then uploads them on the cloud - making it available across the spectrum of apple products.

How will a MS addition work in this space? Does this mean I'll be moving my cloud service to OneDrive? Thats a lot of work for the amount of photos I have...

 

[rowspaxe]

This is such a contrived argument. Windows 10 is actually *exactly* like Windows 8.1 and if you didn't notice, your precious Start Menu is just the Start Screen, but smaller. Mind blown.

To be fair, it appears MS introduced extensive driver errors while enshrining this 8.x release as windows 10. Also, there are upgrade issues related to getting a serial number if you are attempting a clean install. And there's that semi finished edge browser. Open lame windows store apps on the desktop? If Windows 10 is the answer--what was the question?

 

[Renzatic]

To be fair, it appears MS introduced extensive driver errors while enshrining this 8.x release as windows 10.

First I've heard of this.

 

[rowspaxe]

From seeing videos I agree that the eraser function might be crappy. It looked more like undo, rather than eraser, that is when you applied the eraser it would simply undo whatever you did after putting the pen tip down. At least that's what it looked like on the keynote video where he had like 3 or 4 squiggles, and he just touched the eraser down and each touch completely erased a squiggle. That's not what I want, I want something that erases pixel by pixel. When drawing often you overdraw and then sculpt it down with an eraser, and I'm not sure if that's possible with what I saw.

I think this is a oneNote thing--not a hardware issue. OneNote is a pseudo-vector program and can erase last stroke--which can look like undo--or by affected area--which is the traditional erase behavior.

 

[Renzatic]

I think this is a oneNote thing--not a hardware issue. OneNote is a pseudo-vector program and can erase last stroke--which can look like undo--or by affected area--which is the traditional erase behavior.

Yeah, the best way to explain it is that it's like a location specific undo. It erases by stroke, but keeps it localized to whatever you're pressing the pen to.

Though I don't know why people are making such a big deal out of the eraser, pro or con. It's just a digitizer tip on the opposite tip of a stylus, assigned to an erase function instead of a left-mouse click. Handy to have, but hardly new.

 

[athem]

As a Mac user - 6, 6+, MBA, MBP, iPad 2nd gen, Apple Watch, Airport - the works, I'm really interested in getting the SP4, or even the surface book.

The question is how does this one device which falls outside the Apple params play with the remaining set of devices? For example while Photos is a step down from Aperture - I like the fact that when I hook up 128GB of storage, it imports my images and then uploads them on the cloud - making it available across the spectrum of apple products.

How will a MS addition work in this space? Does this mean I'll be moving my cloud service to OneDrive? Thats a lot of work for the amount of photos I have...

I don't know how it works because I never used it, but there's iCloud for Windows...


http://www.windowscentral.com/getting-set-icloud-windows-10

 

[McCool71]

but the thing is so heavy, might as well get a desktop.

Yep, it is almost as heavy as a MacBook Pro...

 

[McCool71]

Yeah, the best way to explain it is that it's like a location specific undo. It erases by stroke, but keeps it localized to whatever you're pressing the pen to.

Yep. And you can of course change the way this works if you for some reason think it is fun to waste time tracking the whole stroke whenever you want to erase something when taking notes.

For taking notes/general writing this is clearly the most efficient way of doing it. Using the eraser in programs like Photoshop it will of course delete only the exact area you target. This is how it has been on stylus enabled software for many, many years.

People are really clutching at straws when making this a big deal - and of course at the same time makes it perfectly clear that they have never used a stylus.

 

[rowspaxe]

Hmm, I don't notice ANY pen lag on my SP3 at all. What Ntrig has is hover lag, when you lift the tip off it goes into some kind of semi sleep state which causes that. From what I understand that was fixed, but we'll have to wait and see hardcore reviews. But as soon as that tip touches the screen it's perfect, no lag there.

I think any discussion of lag must consider the software as well as the hardware. For example--Freshpaint--actually creates a paint "remix" on the fly in computationally intensive and will always lag. OneNote is creating vector art while drawing and will sometimes exhibit lag and "averaging". I prefer to examine lag with light programs like SketchbookPro and--perhaps--the new Apple Notes demoed with the ipad pro.

What is the evidence for Apple's pencil ground breaking low latency? The very slow calligraphic line draw in Penultimate? The pen movement is too slow to show latency. Or--some very localized scribbling in another demo? But the pen movement is too local to highlight point to point latency across several inches. So--imo--i haven't seen anything from Pencil that has really impressed me on the latency issue.

I personally see very little lag or latency in Surface Pro 3 using SketchBookPro. There is curser lag as the pen tracks above the surface--but this is a different issue and imo does not effect drawing. Also, you can turn the curser off.

I am looking forward to additional testing on these products.

 

[Liquorpuki]

The thing that hurts the surface pro and is not talked about is the constant throttling. There is lag in photoshop because of this. I think thats the cool part about the ipad pro. There has always been lag with wacom cintiqs and tablet pcs. You move the pen fast and the line appears shortly after. Ii is noticeable and distracting. There is no lag in the ipad pro with the pen. Not sure how microsoft managed to solve this and not wacom but its pretty nice for artists.

The Pro 3 and 4 don't use WACOM. They use N-Trig. And the iPad doesn't throttle because it uses a low power ARM chip with passive cooling. Which is fine for but you're never gonna get the same processing power a core i-series based surface has.

 

[Quu]

I thought it was a notebook? 16GB of ram in a laptop is not new. Their Surface is thick enough that I am not surprised it's possible there either. Digitizer pen? I am not sure what that is, but I guess it could be useful for a few people. High resolution screen? Good on paper, not sure if people will notice much difference. The GPU in a keyboard to be docked is cool, but the thing is so heavy, might as well get a desktop. The hinge? Looks hideous in my opinion. I am playing devils advocate with most of my responses, but I still don't see this being the second coming of portables. Also, the $1,499 is slower than the $1,299 MacBook pro. You need the GPU in the $1,899 model to become 2x as fast which they are claiming. Seems like another Apple clone to me, looking more like my old 17 inch pro from 2008 though.

It is a notebook with a removable display and the display itself is an entire tablet. But the tablet part is where the Core i7 CPU, 16GB of RAM and 1TB SSD live. The iPad Pro only goes upto 4GB of RAM and 128GB SSD.

The digitiser pen is what allows designers to draw on the screen with 1024 levels of pressure and extremely high precision. It's important because you can run full desktop class Windows 10 software on it like Adobe Photoshop. You can't run that on the iPad Pro, the software simply doesn't exist.

And you're being ridiculous with your "weighs so much might aswell get a desktop" thing. It's 4 pounds that's nothing, if that's heavy to you then get a gym membership.

 

[AppleSOS]

It would be VERY interesting to see how many people here would buy this hardware if it ran OSX.

I suspect it would be amazingly popular.
Shame Apple won't licence OSX, but then, I suspect this is exactly the reason they never will, as they know millions would buy other non Apple hardware then.

I love Apple, but they really need a kick up the ass.

Apple tried that, and it almost bankrupted them. It was the first thing Steve Jobs got rid of when he came back to Apple. The clone program didn't fail due to faulty implementation either, the idea was just a bad business model, which is the same reason Microsoft is moving into hardware - it's where all of the profit is at. It's interesting to see Microsoft entering the "PC" hardware market now, though, at a time when the market is in major decline and everything is moving towards tablets and smart phones - something they already have products in. I'm surprised they didn't stick with just tablets/conventional "2-in-1s". As great as their new laptop may or may not be, I don't see it selling well because there isn't much of a market for it. I think the surface is where all of their potential profit lies, especially since, unlike when it was first introduces, the technology is now there to create a mostly practical "2-in-1". There's still a ways to go, so it'll be interesting to see who the first is to bridge that gap completely, as the iPad Pro is a clear move in this direction.

 

[Shirasaki]

The Surface Book looks great, only problem is... it runs Windows..

Reminds me that Mac OS X interface completely not optimised for touch screen operation.

 

[smoledman]

My biggest concern is about the guy earlier in the thread who said he applied medium pressure with the pen on the SP4 and the screen buckled. That sounds serious.

 

[Renzatic]

My biggest concern is about the guy earlier in the thread who said he applied medium pressure with the pen on the SP4 and the screen buckled. That sounds serious.

I'd take everything that guy says with so many grains of salt, it'd give me hypertension.

For one thing, the glass is bonded to the screen. If he buckled the glass, he buckled the screen, and probably would've started talking about all the distortion drawing on the screen caused. But the screen is also perfectly flush with the hardware components behind it. If he pressed it in, he was putting pressure on the machine itself, which probably would've caused it to flake out, or damage that little fan, and instantly overheat.

Really, the thing doesn't have room to buckle like he said. I'm about 90% sure he was lying through his teeth.

 

[smoledman]

I'd take everything that guy says with so many grains of salt, it'd give me hypertension.

For one thing, the glass is bonded to the screen. If he buckled the glass, he buckled the screen, and probably would've started talking about all the distortion drawing on the screen caused. But the screen is also perfectly flush with the hardware components behind it. If he pressed it in, he was putting pressure on the machine itself, which probably would've caused it to flake out, or damage that little fan, and instantly overheat.

Really, the thing doesn't have room to buckle like he said. I'm about 90% sure he was lying through his teeth.

Really he was at the iPad Pro conference with 7000 creative professionals that are all on board the iPad Pro train....

 

[Renzatic]

Really he was at the iPad Pro conference with 7000 creative professionals that are all on board the iPad Pro train....

Right. It was Apple's day to demo their brand new stuff at this years Adobe MAX, and MS had their own keynote going on nigh simultaneously. Now, it's possible MS dropped off a few showcase pieces for people to play with, but I doubt either company would want their competitors product demos diluting their own showing.

Plus, I haven't read anything in the news about people getting hands on time with any of the new Surfaces there, so...grains of salt. Bunches of 'em.

 

[star-affinity]

The whole thing feels very Apple to me. Yet it's Microsoft. Same same but different?

 

[symphara]

The biggest difference is that OSX is almost always silent about it, while sometimes Windows...dramatic pause...isn't.

Windows 10 updates are more "silent" compared to OSX. As in, it does them unprompted and in the background. OSX updates, at least for me, are prompted. Whatever your beef with Win10 is, it can't be the update system.

 

[lowendlinux]

Windows 10 updates are more "silent" compared to OSX. As in, it does them unprompted and in the background. OSX updates, at least for me, are prompted. Whatever your beef with Win10 is, it can't be the update system.

You don't want to be prompted about updates and enter your password?

 

[spinedoc77]

My biggest concern is about the guy earlier in the thread who said he applied medium pressure with the pen on the SP4 and the screen buckled. That sounds serious.

That's a bunch of nonsense, don't listen to that.

 

[LordVic]

You don't want to be prompted about updates and enter your password?

This.

I love my windows. But Microsoft just can't seem to get the update program working right.

Tell me there are updates. Even download them. But prompt me to install them with a proper notification, let me granuallary choose which ones. and then make me authenticate, even if it's a UAC pop up "yes/no"


Windows 7 was CLOSE, but was too naggy. "remind me in ...." box that appears on your display is annoying.

Windows 8 was absolutely horrible. That bloody banner that pops up accross your entire screen. That default option is "reboot now" caused me to lose work a few times. I type, fast, and generally without looking at what I type (Touch Typist). Do you know how many times that window popped up, took my next enter, or my next space key as assent to reboot?

Windows 10 is one of the worst. it's invisible. you never know it happens, except when it needs a reboot, but it wont tell you till AFTER the reboot. so you might not find out updates installed until the next day. And if an update breaks? you have almost no way of figuring out what did it because you have no granular control over what was installed.