Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Microsoft Says Windows PC Makers Seeing 'Continued Growth' in Premium Market Led by Apple

All I know is I´m waiting for Surface Book to launch in my country. To finally have a laptop and tablet in one. Like everyone wanted Apple to make several years ago, but they denied us. And so far it seems Apple arent doing **** about it. They refuse to change and stick to old philisophies instead of being innovative.
 
I am also strongly considering a hackintosh for my next desktop. I'd rather buy a 4K iMac, or even a Mac Mini, if they were a little more up to date. Fortunately, I'm not in a hurry, so I have the option to wait it out. I certainly wouldn't buy any desktop Mac right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aldaris
kokhoong0624 said:
The last windows laptop I would get is the Surface Book. It's a very weird product because I don't understand who or whom is it aimed to. It has a dual core ULTRA LOW WATT PROCESSOR (15W) - same as the Macbook Air. The MBP 13 inch with touchbar have a standard dual core i5 (28W) and the Macbook Pro 15 inch have the standard quad core i7 (45w). From my understanding, in short burst loads, the processors will perform similarly, but the lower wattage one can only hold up at the higher clock rates significantly shorter than the ones with higher wattage (Which I think is essential for video editing/data analysis). However, the SB also has a relatively powerful graphics GTX965M. It is weird because from my understanding, the professionals here who do video editing or data analysis or Autodesk, though they will benefit from the relatively powerful GPU, but it would be bottlenecked easily by the CPU. The only group of user I would see benefit from this is gamers because games generally don't require a lot of CPU horsepower, but GTX965M for gaming is just mediocre at best.... who is it for then?

The another issue is ... I don't see anyone mention this here but I have used a Surface Book ( not mine ) and it broke because the display (tablet) can no longer detect the performance base because the hinge is faulty. It's an ultimate design failure, you can take a look at Microsoft Forums for this. And you want to charge the SB? no you can't cause you have to charge through the base. You want to plug in USB and try to reinstall drivers? Sorry you can't because all the ports is on the performance base. I don't understand. Is it THAT HARD to put a port (USB C) or something on the display (tablet) because when you face this issue, the only option you have is to send it to service. Can't charge, can't transfer data, can't use at all even if you have a bluetooth mouse or keyboard.
And the customer service.................................. I don't know how is it in the US, but in my country, you'll wouldn't get any responses. Apple CS is far superior in many regions of the world compared to Microsoft.

And the price. It's price similarly to the 15 inch Macbook pro, and weigh the same but with only a 13 inch display. And it is not future proof (all laptops are not future proof but it lacks a Thunderbolt 3 and I think its a deal breaker for me).
I would sacrifice the touchscreen and the pen and the extra battery life anytime, because as you see.. The 15 Macbook Pro is definitely a better purchase here - quad core, faster SSD, thunderbolt, better screen + sound quality, larger display, no gimmicks (except the touchbar). (Both are overpriced but I rather pay the Apple Tax.)
Click to expand...


And the GTX965M is roughly only as powerful as the 460 everyone claims is garbage, I think... (could be wrong).
 
kokhoong0624 said:
The last windows laptop I would get is the Surface Book. It's a very weird product because I don't understand who or whom is it aimed to. It has a dual core ULTRA LOW WATT PROCESSOR (15W) - same as the Macbook Air. The MBP 13 inch with touchbar have a standard dual core i5 (28W) and the Macbook Pro 15 inch have the standard quad core i7 (45w). From my understanding, in short burst loads, the processors will perform similarly, but the lower wattage one can only hold up at the higher clock rates significantly shorter than the ones with higher wattage (Which I think is essential for video editing/data analysis). However, the SB also has a relatively powerful graphics GTX965M. It is weird because from my understanding, the professionals here who do video editing or data analysis or Autodesk, though they will benefit from the relatively powerful GPU, but it would be bottlenecked easily by the CPU. The only group of user I would see benefit from this is gamers because games generally don't require a lot of CPU horsepower, but GTX965M for gaming is just mediocre at best.... who is it for then?

The another issue is ... I don't see anyone mention this here but I have used a Surface Book ( not mine ) and it broke because the display (tablet) can no longer detect the performance base because the hinge is faulty. It's an ultimate design failure, you can take a look at Microsoft Forums for this. And you want to charge the SB? no you can't cause you have to charge through the base. You want to plug in USB and try to reinstall drivers? Sorry you can't because all the ports is on the performance base. I don't understand. Is it THAT HARD to put a port (USB C) or something on the display (tablet) because when you face this issue, the only option you have is to send it to service. Can't charge, can't transfer data, can't use at all even if you have a bluetooth mouse or keyboard.
And the customer service.................................. I don't know how is it in the US, but in my country, you'll wouldn't get any responses. Apple CS is far superior in many regions of the world compared to Microsoft.

And the price. It's price similarly to the 15 inch Macbook pro, and weigh the same but with only a 13 inch display. And it is not future proof (all laptops are not future proof but it lacks a Thunderbolt 3 and I think its a deal breaker for me).
I would sacrifice the touchscreen and the pen and the extra battery life anytime, because as you see.. The 15 Macbook Pro is definitely a better purchase here - quad core, faster SSD, thunderbolt, better screen + sound quality, larger display, no gimmicks (except the touchbar). (Both are overpriced but I rather pay the Apple Tax.)
Click to expand...

Are you looking up the correct SurfaceBook, I have it... it has a quad core i7. The price is significantly less for the laptop, and as a bonus includes a tablet. Apple doesn't give you a free iPad when you buy a laptop. Also, the other issues you mention are potential bugs (I have not seen) that get fixed... the points I raise are design specs that Apple can't fix until they decide to actually innovate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jedifaka
ArtOfWarfare said:
My iMac has been broken for the last two months. I haven't replaced it with anything yet because Apple's current lineup is so completely disappointing.

I've been getting by with my Windows 10 laptop from work instead. It's not awesome, but it does everything I need it to and saves me a few thousand.
Click to expand...

That's great for you. Apple's current lineup, even if not leading-edge on every front, is still a massively capable set of machinery. I'm currently running a 2013 MacBook Air as my primary productivity machine. 3 years old, and still does everything that I need it to do. I could not switch to Windows because that operating system just does not have the "workflow" support that I need. Cmd-Tab switching between my various apps, all of which work seamlessly together. That experience just does not exist on Windows.
 
ColdShadow said:
Apple,add at least 1 extra USB port to the 12 Inch Macbook and Replace at least 1 of the USB-C ports of the new MBP with standard USB.

or indeed MANY will ditch Macbooks and swith to Surface.

It's just stupid and no one can defend these wrong design decisions.
Click to expand...

You mean like when Steve Jobs introduced the MacBook Air? With one port, an underpowered CPU (that astonishingly still caused laptop overheating), 2 GB of RAM, and an 80 GB spinning hard disk? For $1,799.

There's no way Apple is going backwards 20 years and adding a standard USB A connector.

They will likely add a 2nd USB C port to the MacBook, as they did with the MacBook Air.
 
Appleaker said:
Many people are looking at the Surface Book as the MBP alternative and in my opinion that is the inevitable form of laptops, and makes more sense than a touchscreen standard from factor laptop or even a foldable 2-in-1. Of course Apple wouldn't do that due to the iPad.
Click to expand...
My girlfriend just bought a pc WITHOUT the touchscreen after having one with the touchscreen because it had better performance/features and didn't want the finger prints all over the screen and many of the screen in pc laptops leave something to be desired.
Apple should make a touchscreen laptop so as to grab that segment but to me they are different missions.
But when apple does something it is usually does it better so who knows?
And I said usually ;( the last MacBook pro not so much .
 
iMi said:
I believe Microsoft claims. There is anecdotal evidence that the Surface is cutting into Apple's market share. They certainly target the same consumer segment. I read somewhere that there are more Surface devices on college campuses and fewer MacBooks and iPads.

I really like the Surface Pro 4 and after getting used to Windows the experience is pretty similar to Apple.
Click to expand...

The division in my company has been handing out Surface devices to administrators, directors and doctors like candy. Its certainly made an impact here. Something that Apple PCs have yet to grasp and it isn't like they do not work on our domain or anything. I'm also seeing more and more vendors using Surface books instead of HP, Dell or Lenovo laptops. They obviously found the right formula after 3 revisions and it shows.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ladybug
Labeno said:
I've been a Mac user for over 10 years because they were awesome.
The MBP is proving Apple is running for profit and not innovation.
Here's some key differences between SurfaceBook and MBP:
  • SB - 16 hours of battery life. MBP - 10 hour. In reality, SB is a little less with pro usage, but MBP is only about 2 to 3 hours. Pathetic.
  • SB - Has magsafe like connector for safety. MBP - got rid of Magsafe, one of the best inventions ever. This is ridiculous.
  • SB - Has touchscreen. Once you use it you never go back. MBP - no touch screen, but has touch bar, that once you use it, you tend to avoid it.
  • SB - Has detachable screen, where when detached, the OS changes into a tablet mode making it great for simple things like games, email, and browsing. MBP - can't detach screen, so if you wan't a tablet, it need to buy an expensive iPad. Obvious money grab.
  • SB - Has the option for Nvidia GPU, which is great for CUDA developement, which I do. MBP - does not offer this option. So stuck with non CUDA development.
Please let me know if I'm being over critical, but please justify you reasoning. Remember, I was a hard core Mac lover, and Apple makes more money than anyone, so there's no reason that Apple should be 4 years behind the competition. Tim Cook may be fantastic at organizing production, but he would be fired if Steve Job's came back to life for what he has done to the company. Yes, the stock is good, but that cause the company is running for profit. It won't last.
Click to expand...

So now what? You going to show courage and vote with your wallet and buy a SurfaceBook? When?
 
iMerik said:
If you don't use Caps Lock, you can always remap it to be Escape. Relearning the key location would suck, but your finger would travel less. I'm not crazy about the solution, but it's an option.
Click to expand...

Configurability to most seem like a wonderful thing, but it cripples you if you have to use anyone else's computer, or someone else uses your computer.
 
Count me among those who have recently switched from Mac to Windows (MacBook Pro to Surface Book). Though to be fair, Microsoft didn't make it easy, and it's exposed some of Apple's strongest assets - reliability most of all. I had to trade in my first Surface device due to hardware problems, and the Surface Book I'm using has issues as well (a phantom tap in one specific spot if held a certain way, and minor light bleeding only visible when displaying black). And the drivers for the SP4 and SB were unforgivably bad for the first 8 months that it was on the market, to the point that I actually temporarily returned to the Mac until they ironed out the kinks.

Nevertheless, I'm still using a Surface Book currently and it is the best form factor I have ever used for a laptop. The 2:3 display is simply stunning, the build quality is top notch (QC issues aside), and being able to use it as a tablet (both just as a head and also as a flipped and full-powered tablet) is icing on the cake. Fantastic battery life, too. And the software and drivers are finally quite good, though Microsoft still has work to do to bring everything to the modern UX (looking at you, Windows Explorer). There IS one absolutely horrible program that is a consistently unpleasant experience though: iTunes.

I also tried switching from iOS to Android. That attempt was not nearly as successful.
 
Labeno said:
Are you looking up the correct SurfaceBook, I have it... it has a quad core i7. The price is significantly less for the laptop, and as a bonus includes a tablet. Apple doesn't give you a free iPad when you buy a laptop. Also, the other issues you mention are potential bugs (I have not seen) that get fixed... the points I raise are design specs that Apple can't fix until they decide to actually innovate.
Click to expand...

Look up the specs again... you'll be up for a surprise. SB has always been dual core no matter i5 or i7. and it's Macbook Air class i5 and i7 (if not how will you get the 16 hours battery life?), not even up to the retina mbp touch bar standard. It's not slow, it's just not powerful. And no, it's not bugs that can be fixed with an update, it's a design and hardware failure, one day if your hinge fail you will be left with no option, not even to charge it to retrieve your data.

I agree that Apple is not innovating. And the soldered SSD pissed me off with the mediocre battery life. But for the first time ever, the MBP 15 does not heat up that bad anymore and the Radeon Pro 460 is actually quite capable. But for Windows laptop, SB is the last one I would get. I would get a PC if i want a desktop and definitely not the Surface Studio too..
 
citysnaps said:
So now what? You going to show courage and vote with your wallet and buy a SurfaceBook? When?
Click to expand...

How funny... I have a SurfaceBook. This is why I posted... to show a real life example of someone who switched due to Apple's change business model of running for profit instead of innovating for people like me who always praised Apple in the past and converted many people to Apple. My goal also is for Apple to see these posts, and hopefully the board of directors replace Tim Cook with someone who actually innovates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ladybug, alvindarkness, d0nK and 4 others
Apple 26.2 said:
The USB-C only ports turned off a lot of people. Whether it's a limitation is not my argument, but many see it that way.
Click to expand...

Good point, USB-C didn't turn me off at all, but all the other issues that I listed earlier in this post did get me to switch to a SurfaceBook.
 
  • Like
Reactions: d0nK
Eightarmedpet said:
And the GTX965M is roughly only as powerful as the 460 everyone claims is garbage, I think... (could be wrong).
Click to expand...
Yes and I think that it's an engineering marvel! The GTX965M runs at 75W and the Macbook Pro one only runs at 35W. And they perform similarly.
 
I enjoy my Dell E5470 laptop with Windows 10 Ent. It works. Does what I need.

Apple is just lagging. Truthfully if they don't improve by 2018, I will just give up and purchase/build my own PC.

I already ended up picking up an old HP probook laptop, installed Debian. I get all my Linux tools for my home lab I need now. The MacBook is just a want now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aldaris
itguy06 said:
I think your issue is Win7. I use Office 16 and it works well with touch. Even Photoshop and Lightroom do well with touch. With some good AI even "small icons" are usable. Given the # of new Windows PC's with either touch or pen released this year, developers have good reason to make their UIs touch friendly.
Click to expand...
However, I prefer to use my PC without touch. I don't like a smudgy screen when I'm working. All the "touch-friendly" features get in the way of productivity. Plus, my work PC (HP Elitebook with a traditional clamshell design) doesn't exactly lend itself to touch, regardless of the OS.
 
Learning Premium = $900+ and realizing my $3000 iMac and $3300 Mac Book Pro greatly exceed what basically every consumer pays for their computers...those that even still use computers. Most people compute exclusively on phones & tablets now.

Then I guess we can take it a step further and wonder why Apple isn't doing a ton to cater to professionals anymore. The overwhelming majority of people don't spend more than $900 on a computer.
 
Sad trend indeed.

I am a company builder. Until two years ago young employees would beg me to bring to work their private MacBook. Now they ask me to buy them PCs for work. This makes more and more difficult to get good people willing to code for iOS.

Apple did not realize that killing the mac is going to kill iOS too. When they will understand this, it will be too late unfortunately.

I am still on a Mac, however I need to replace my Mac mini i7 2011 (!!) and there is no replacement for it in apple's lineup.I found myself looking for compact pcs instead on the internet, because if my mini dies, I need to prepare to switch unfortunately :(

Edit: forgot to mention that common leasing companies in Europe will finance any possible PC, but not a Mac, since Apple wants me to give them a private guarantee. Sad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aldaris, alvindarkness, d0nK and 2 others
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back