Microsoft Shares Holiday Ad Promoting Surface Go Over Apple's iPad: 'Big Dreams Need a Real Computer'

[I7guy]

Your analogy is still poor, and YES, the slide rule and abacus if you like are computers, again, Let people feel the shapes of a Mac Pro and an iPad they will then say the Mac Pro isn’t.
Half cover an Etch a sketch in the same way, or a dumb terminal and then maybe both are.
You’re are relying on deception and avoiding the question. That tells me all I need to know.
Thankyou.
But you’ve finally seen it and said so above. “In the way a public perceives them......”

Oh yes, the sundial is a computer also in that vein. But I agree, we gone as far as can be, with the "what's a computer". Thank you.

You define a computer as anything that has a microprocessor, even fixed function devices like microwaves. If that's your benchmark, that tells me all I need to know.

 

[ipponrg]

Off point but responding to a double post is near impossible on an iPad paired with Macrumors. You can’t select text and then expand it. - on my iPad at the moment.

Back on point. I have used virtual machines on an on premise “cloud” for years and don’t notice any latency. (Citrix)
I have done remoting to computers over the internet and the latency there is a bit annoying. That probably has a lot to do with the remoting software though. (Skype).
I have remoted in to servers and worked on them and don’t find latency an issue (RDP) but then again I am not using an ide on them.
I have remoted in via Citrix from home into a cloud virtual machine and didn’t find the delay annoying.
I am going to try a Linux vm in the cloud shortly where I will have an ide so will be testing out what an ide is like there.

Remoting using the correct software has come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. You just have to ensure that the remote servers are in the same country to lessen the physical distance latency and also ensure that link is going over land and not round tripping over satellite.

I used the Cloud9 platform. It's cool, and I like the intent. However the "always have to be connected" is something I don't particularly like. There are a lot of edge cases that makes it not as reliable as working locally.

 

[dilbert99]

I used the Cloud9 platform. It's cool, and I like the intent. However the "always have to be connected" is something I don't particularly like. There are a lot of edge cases that makes it not as reliable as working locally.

Thats why I said in future.
Always on connectivity is not there yet, that would have to be fixed first

 

[MacBH928]

Too bad for Apple, Jobs isn't here to guide them any more. Cook's old "bump the specs" trick is not going to work any more. Where the iPad goes next needs a new OS that Cook probably can not figure out, and are too afraid to abandon their gold laying goose- the iOS, which Jobs gifted to them.

As a long time Apple user, the Apple ecosystem is horrific as they are very fragmented and very confusing to use TBH. the iWork Suite, Apple Music, the TV app, Apple TV, App Store, Safari GUI on iOS is outdated function wise, the iOS file system, its just terrible and does not feel solid. They need to get their act together and bring back the solid united Apple experience that works across devices and software.

Too bad W10 is still an unreliable disaster.

You are correct, Win98 was horrible and so is W10. Doing simple stuff just like updating the OS takes ages of download time and restarts.

 

[H2SO4]

Oh yes, the sundial is a computer also in that vein. But I agree, we gone as far as can be, with the "what's a computer". Thank you.

You define a computer as anything that has a microprocessor, even fixed function devices like microwaves. If that's your benchmark, that tells me all I need to know.

STILL, didn't answer the question.

 

[I7guy]

STILL, didn't answer the question.

There is no question or answer at this point. Only hyperbole and subjectivity; ie a microwave is a computer.

 

[Mac 128]

I would disagree. The core functions of any computing device vary little. If we get a computer device, example iPhone, into the educational process earlier the better computer prepared the next generation will be. IOS and Android are doing an excellent job bringing the value and computing concepts to younger users far better then any full computer operating system could possible accomplish. The functionality of Numbers vs Excel very little, even on IOS. Great early computer learning tool.

But we’re talking about 10 year olds about to enter middle school ... children have already been exposed to core computing devices since before pre-school, with iPads, and iPhones, and even navigating the AppleTV. By 10, it’s time to start preparing them to use the tools they will be expected to use in the professional world, as uninspired and unpopular that idea may be. The good news is they have grown up with iOS and Android, and already have a firm grounding of those platforms by 10, and will likely continue to have a growing appreciation for them, and develop new ways to utilize them well into the future, but in the meantime, there’s work to be done.

And if you are transferring files on a thumb drive, wouldn’t that mean there is a computer where you are to transfer the files to. Why not use that computer. And honestly if something happens to your keyring or the drive breaks off from continuous wear and tear. Your files are gone. If you encrypted them and placed them online they would be safer. In fact you could just iMessage them to yourself and they would be encrypted and accessible on all your devices you could also save them to notes and lock it with a long password and Touch ID. It would also be available on all your devices.

All well and good until you can’t connect to the cloud. I’ve never had a thumb drive break off ever. And what’s with this idea that files can’t be backup up to the cloud, while being more accessible on a local drive? The best of both worlds. Why is this being discussed as if it’s only one or the other? Huge files take seconds transferring over a thumb drive, and potentially many minutes over a cloud drive, depending on the network connection. Longer is usually not better in the world of computing.

 

[H2SO4]

There is no question or answer at this point. Only hyperbole and subjectivity; ie a microwave is a computer.

Ok. Until you can answer the question(s) and avoid an example that is deceitful, let's call it a day. Easy to find, in my previous posts in bold if you're looking.

 

[I7guy]

Ok. Until you can answer the question(s) and avoid an example that is deceitful, let's call it a day. Easy to find, in my previous posts in bold if you're looking.

Yep, typical online internet response: I won’t discuss anything further until you answer my questions. And I’m not going to discuss anything further until the hyperbole calms down. Impasse.

 

[Sabelonada]

Apple sells more than twice as many iPads as they do Macs, though iPad draws in more revenue. My guess is that Apple sees the iPad as the future, and prefers to build it up to do what people want from a “real computer” rather than go through the effort of adding touch to Macs. As Windows 8 showed (and many Windows applications such as Adobe Acrobat still show), that effort isn’t trivial. Adding touch to a platform built for a keyboard and mouse may be much more difficult than building in file and multitasking capabilities to a platform built from day 1 with touch in mind.

That doesn't change that people are beginning to expect that screens on laptops respond to touch. The end effect is the same regardless of whether or not touch is added to the Mac OS or if iOS matures.

There may very well be constraints in iOS which prevent it from becoming a fully fledged multi-tasking OS.

This article says that iPads have higher sales but lower revenue.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/7/26/the-ipad-vs-mac-juxtaposition

As it is, as both iOS and Mac OS evolve separately, they will compete for resources. I don’t know that they will ever converge. Apple has a strong history of coming late to a party but stealing the limelight. Maybe they can get touch to work on the Mac. I think we aren’t that far away from touch being an expectation on laptops.

 

[Wiesenlooser]

There's a vast difference between your description of coding ( which is extreme casual ) , and coding in a 'professional' environment ; It's just not possible on an iPad. I could not replace my Apple laptop for an iPad for coding either at work or home. iPad just doesn't have the tools or the hardware.

Apple made the swift playground for a learning experience, which is pretty cool - get kids into learning a language.

I LITERALLY said for children. How was I talking about coding in a professional environment? And you can code apps for the iPad ON the iPad. I'd say for children that is more than enough.

 

[Abazigal]

That doesn't change that people are beginning to expect that screens on laptops respond to touch. The end effect is the same regardless of whether or not touch is added to the Mac OS or if iOS matures.

There may very well be constraints in iOS which prevent it from becoming a fully fledged multi-tasking OS.

This article says that iPads have higher sales but lower revenue.

https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/7/26/the-ipad-vs-mac-juxtaposition

As it is, as both iOS and Mac OS evolve separately, they will compete for resources. I don’t know that they will ever converge. Apple has a strong history of coming late to a party but stealing the limelight. Maybe they can get touch to work on the Mac. I think we aren’t that far away from touch being an expectation on laptops.

I feel that the iPad will get more attention by virtue of it sharing the same software and hardware as the iPhone. So similar processors, cameras, Face ID, iOS, more vibrant app market. Hence it will always feel newer and fresher.

 

[Stella]

I LITERALLY said for children. How was I talking about coding in a professional environment? And you can code apps for the iPad ON the iPad. I'd say for children that is more than enough.

Sorry - I found your post ambiguous. You say you can code in an iPad and then go onto say it’s an ‘awesome environment ‘ for children.

For children, yes, iPad is a good environment for learning to code.

And you can code on an iPad. In fact, I'd say for children it is a prett awesome environment (Swift but also Pythonista)

 

[chatin]

My 7-year-old quickly became bored with iPad and got a Go for the holidays. The most valuable company in the U.S. is taking a cue from Apple where the price goes up substantially for 8GB with keyboard and mouse.

 

[XtremeArtists]

Really unimaginative and uninspiring compared to Apple's holiday ad.

No one is going to buy a surface based on this ad.

 

[mtneer]

Microsoft is not wrong.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Really unimaginative and uninspiring compared to Apple's holiday ad.

No one is going to buy a surface based on this ad.

How can you know that? Because you don't like the ad, no one likes the ad?

 

[jeremiah256]

How can you know that? Because you don't like the ad, no one likes the ad?

Not whom you asked, but I also don't believe this ad is effective.

1. Show, don't tell. The "What's a computer" ad, hated as much as it is, shows a kid actually doing fantastic...kid stuff. Video chatting with friends, taking pictures, drawing, writing a report for school, geeking out on bugs. She's obviously smart, independent, and talented. The Microsoft kid sings, dances, and swipes and tells everyone how smart she is. Code rolls by. Nothing is actually done.

2. Insulting. No, not insulting toward Apple. It's insulting to the grandparents (and other older adults) being targeted, who probably have and use an iPad or iPad Mini. This ad does not take into account how many people have been exposed to iOS. Nana will probably call BS on an iPad only being appropriate for a six year old since she uses it in many of the same ways as the iPad kid.

3. Poor Targeting. I still have and occasionally use the sibling of the Surface Go, the Surface (non-Pro) 3. I've always thought that this size and form factor was the perfect computer to pit against the MacBook. Work on the battery life, add some additional targeted features to OneNote (beef up it's PDF capabilities and export features), and create education (high school and university) and enterprise bundles. Yes, there are some pre-teens who would benefit from a Surface Go, but that is niche. Meanwhile, the vast majority of high school and college students, and traveling business persons would have no problems with even the base model Surface Go.

I understand what Microsoft wants to do. They want to take advantage of the 'real' vs 'toy' argument going on between PCs and iPads. And that's a good idea. But, instead of featuring a singing 10 year old, show something that at least appears to be more real. They could get away with an ad suggesting that iPads are great in elementary school, even a Chromebook is fine for middle school, but in high school? I need a Surface Go. Hell, feature triplets in high school. One, a geek, coding. Another, doing art and design. The third? They are the business oriented one, using Office to sell the app the other two just designed.

 

[Ladybug]

It seems to me the ad must be somewhat effective because it has you all talking about it. Everyone needs to calm down, one little ad isn’t going to put Apple out of business anytime soon. Now take a deep breath...the sky isn’t falling.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Not whom you asked, but I also don't believe this ad is effective.

1. Show, don't tell. The "What's a computer" ad, hated as much as it is, shows a kid actually doing fantastic...kid stuff. Video chatting with friends, taking pictures, drawing, writing a report for school, geeking out on bugs. She's obviously smart, independent, and talented. The Microsoft kid sings, dances, and swipes and tells everyone how smart she is. Code rolls by. Nothing is actually done.

2. Insulting. No, not insulting toward Apple. It's insulting to the grandparents (and other older adults) being targeted, who probably have and use an iPad or iPad Mini. This ad does not take into account how many people have been exposed to iOS. Nana will probably call BS on an iPad only being appropriate for a six year old since she uses it in many of the same ways as the iPad kid.

3. Poor Targeting. I still have and occasionally use the sibling of the Surface Go, the Surface (non-Pro) 3. I've always thought that this size and form factor was the perfect computer to pit against the MacBook. Work on the battery life, add some additional targeted features to OneNote (beef up it's PDF capabilities and export features), and create education (high school and university) and enterprise bundles. Yes, there are some pre-teens who would benefit from a Surface Go, but that is niche. Meanwhile, the vast majority of high school and college students, and traveling business persons would have no problems with even the base model Surface Go.

I understand what Microsoft wants to do. They want to take advantage of the 'real' vs 'toy' argument going on between PCs and iPads. And that's a good idea. But, instead of featuring a singing 10 year old, show something that at least appears to be more real. They could get away with an ad suggesting that iPads are great in elementary school, even a Chromebook is fine for middle school, but in high school? I need a Surface Go. Hell, feature triplets in high school. One, a geek, coding. Another, doing art and design. The third? They are the business oriented one, using Office to sell the app the other two just designed.

The ads made by Apple and Microsoft (where they target each other. Remember also the 'PC guy' and the 'Mac guy'?) are nothing more than a juvenile pissing contest in my opinion. Your arguments make sense and you state them as your opinion.

My reaction:

How can you know that? Because you don't like the ad, no one likes the ad?

was simply directed to someone who stated:

Really unimaginative and uninspiring compared to Apple's holiday ad.

No one is going to buy a surface based on this ad.

In the quote above the person was trying to speak for everyone while there's no accounting for taste.