Microsoft Shares Holiday Ad Promoting Surface Go Over Apple's iPad: 'Big Dreams Need a Real Computer'

[jeremiah256]

Just a voice from the peanut gallery.
Yes the iPad is a computer, as is the iPhone. But it is not a production computer, for me. It is a consumption computer. I take the ipad on vacation because it can do the minimum I need, ie email, searches from my hotel room, etc. But when it comes to writing in a word processor, surfing the web, other things that my desktop does at ease, the ipad doesn't cut it, for ME. I much prefer to have a mouse and a keyboard and a larger screen when I am doing anything on a daily basis.
If they give the iPad the same functionality with folders and file storage options that I like, capability to hook into my 27" 4K monitor and use my favorite keyboard and mouse, then MAYBE I will consider one when the desktop dies. But I don't expect that to happen for at least 8-10 years and by then?

I accept that for the vast majority of people, if I said I was going to buy a computer, they are visualizing a traditional form computer, or a hybrid device like the Surface line or Pixel Slate where they are primarily used with a keyboard and mouse. Most iPads I see in the wild are not attached to even a keyboard.

The problem arises with the larger iPad Pro line. I would guess due to the size and power, most of them are used with a keyboard, making them this kind of hybrid of hybrids.

 

[ldandp0]

Moved the goalposts. Period. Your microwave does not do the functions of the post you quoted and attempted knock.

Go into Best Buy and ask for a computer and doubt you will get an iPad also, but probably won’t get a surface offered either.


Microprocessor purpose built for special applications, like ecus, elevators and microwaves are not the same class of computer that one would use when writing a term paper. An iPad and surface pro are closer together than a microchip powering a dishwasher and a batttery operates candelabra on a timer.

The point is there is nothing separating a surface pro from whatever definition of "real computer" someone can come up with. However, there is a ton separating an ipad pro from whatever definition of "real computer" someone can come up with, no matter how much Apple attempts to stretch the truth.

 

[H2SO4]

Moved the goalposts. Period. Your microwave does not do the functions of the post you quoted and attempted knock.

Go into Best Buy and ask for a computer and doubt you will get an iPad also, but probably won’t get a surface offered either.


Microprocessor purpose built for special applications, like ecus, elevators and microwaves are not the same class of computer that one would use when writing a term paper. An iPad and surface pro are closer together than a microchip powering a dishwasher and a batttery operates candelabra on a timer.

Missing the point. The OP has decided that he wants to call the iPad a ‘computer’ because it suits him. HE HAS expanded the term to suit himself. That’s fine and his/her prerogative. Except when I did it you moan they aren’t the same class. Is this a true statement in absolute terms;
A computer is a device that computes?
(The clue is in the name).

They and you need to understand that the vast majority of people won’t see it that way for quite some time.
“Probably won’t get offered a surface either”, yeah. You keep telling yourself that.
I have a job in a John Lewis store today do I can put my theory to the test just for my own curiosity.

I’ll Go in and say, “Please point me to the computers”. After they point north, I’ll start going east, (or west), to the iPads I’ll turn back saying, “you mean over here?”
Something tells me I’ll be redirected.

 

[dilbert99]

I think it's a jealousy/envy thing, to be honest. They see their traditional PC world shrinking and want to put down anything different. Everyone has their right to call a device whatever they want, but it's pretty ignorant.

I don't think like that, nothing to do with jealousy for me.
I cannot do my work on an iPad, even though I have plenty of them in my house.
I mostly use my iPad for watching media on.
Personally I don't find the iPad to be a real computer because I cannot do real work on it efficiently. Perhaps it is just the way my generation think.

 

[DNichter]

I don't think like that, nothing to do with jealousy for me.
I cannot do my work on an iPad, even though I have plenty of them in my house.
I mostly use my iPad for watching media on.
Personally I don't find the iPad to be a real computer because I cannot do real work on it efficiently. Perhaps it is just the way my generation think.

That’s likely a big part of it. I obviously don’t know your generation, but I know the younger generation is quicker to adapt (or be willing/want to adapt) to new tools and technology, while the older generation typically sticks to what works and what has always worked. There are definitely positives to that as well considering they are proven and people rely on these tools for their workflows. They simply have to work. Over time I think this mindset that the iPad is not a computer will evaporate as they continue to build out the platform and make it even more capable than it is today. I made the choice to move to iPad only partly to be better prepared for the future, partly because of the extreme mobility and flexibility it brings me, and partly because I enjoy learning new ways to work.

 

[dilbert99]

That’s likely a big part of it. I obviously don’t know your generation, but I know the younger generation is quicker to adapt (or be willing/want to adapt) to new tools and technology, while the older generation typically sticks to what works and what has always worked. There are definitely positives to that as well considering they are proven and people rely on these tools for their workflows. They simply have to work. Over time I think this mindset that the iPad is not a computer will evaporate as they continue to build out the platform and make it even more capable than it is today. I made the choice to move to iPad only partly to be better prepared for the future, partly because of the extreme mobility and flexibility it brings me, and partly because I enjoy learning new ways to work.

So true.

I would possibly switch to an iPad if it were an efficient device for things like video editing and software development.
It just doesn't have the screen real-estate, mouse(/trackpad) and keyboard to make for an efficient workflow.
A finger isn't as precise as a mouse, albeit that a pencil would counter some (perhaps all) of that.
I suspect the iPad doesn't have full keyboard shortcut support either from what I hear.
I've only used one bluetooth keyboard with my iPad, but it just sits in a drawer.
I've tried using excel on an iPad and it is a poor experience.
I've tried video editing on an iPad and that was a poor experience too.
I didn't find Photo editing much fun on the iPad either.
My son grew up on iPads but only uses it for watching media. He uses laptops and desktops for doing any other tasks.
My daughter only knows iPads and will see in later years what she prefers.

 

[DNichter]

So true.

I would possibly switch to an iPad if it were an efficient device for things like video editing and software development.
It just doesn't have the screen real-estate, mouse(/trackpad) and keyboard to make for an efficient workflow.
A finger isn't as precise as a mouse, albeit that a pencil would counter some (perhaps all) of that.
I suspect the iPad doesn't have full keyboard shortcut support either from what I hear.
I've only used one bluetooth keyboard with my iPad, but it just sits in a drawer.
I've tried using excel on an iPad and it is a poor experience.
I've tried video editing on an iPad and that was a poor experience too.
I didn't find Photo editing much fun on the iPad either.
My son grew up on iPads but only uses it for watching media. He uses laptops and desktops for doing any other tasks.
My daughter only knows iPads and will see in later years what she prefers.

I think there is a ton of room for improvement. I expect this to be one of Apple's primary focuses over the next few years. The potential is huge, they just need to really focus on differentiating iPad software. For video editing, I have heard Luma Fusion is awesome, but I don't have any experience myself. I actually think Xcode for iOS will be released at WWDC this year so I think it'll open the platform to more software developers. I found the 12.9 to be acceptable from a screen real estate perspective, but I agree - I think a mouse or trackpad is just a better input method for some situations. I have adjusted and don't handle many operational tasks, so I haven't found it lacking personally. I know I use keyboard shortcuts all day, but I am assuming you mean mapping or more advanced shortcuts. I don't think we are there yet in that area. Excel is not ideal for the iPad, it's just better suited for the traditional PC environment that we are used to - mouse support and a full featured app would change that. I actually love Photo editing on the iPad as I feel it's very intuitive and there are plenty of apps to do so. It'll definitely be interesting how kids react to all this stuff in the future - I expect them to not think about this stuff as much as you or I probably did coming up. They'll simply use what is most accessible and what gets the job done. I think Apple is in a prime position to make the iPad a very attractive platform for productivity - they just need to cut out all the BS and get aggressive from a software perspective.

 

[ipponrg]

That’s likely a big part of it. I obviously don’t know your generation, but I know the younger generation is quicker to adapt (or be willing/want to adapt) to new tools and technology, while the older generation typically sticks to what works and what has always worked. There are definitely positives to that as well considering they are proven and people rely on these tools for their workflows. They simply have to work. Over time I think this mindset that the iPad is not a computer will evaporate as they continue to build out the platform and make it even more capable than it is today. I made the choice to move to iPad only partly to be better prepared for the future, partly because of the extreme mobility and flexibility it brings me, and partly because I enjoy learning new ways to work.

Although you have some valid points, I just want to bring up that developing on an iPad will be a complete cluster even for the younger generation. With laptops, you get the full UI experience as well as stability when using it on your lap. The iPad will never at any point accomplish this unless they have a built in keyboard with a fully enabled OS which basically makes it a laptop.

The iPad is really a simple portable device that fits how people today use it which is media consumption and very light task work. If it ends up requiring dock and peripherals to achieve all professional work, it’s basically cannibalizing on MacBooks and not solving any actual people problems.

Perhaps part of the reason some are reluctant to accept this fact is due to not understanding and experiencing the actual use cases.

 

[dilbert99]

I think there is a ton of room for improvement. I expect this to be one of Apple's primary focuses over the next few years. The potential is huge, they just need to really focus on differentiating iPad software. For video editing, I have heard Luma Fusion is awesome, but I don't have any experience myself.

I use Davinci Resolve and there are a lot of shortcuts. When on laptop, I find 15.4" barely enough real-estate.

I actually think Xcode for iOS will be released at WWDC this year so I think it'll open the platform to more software developers.

I found the 12.9 to be acceptable from a screen real estate perspective

I would hate to use XCode or any other IDE on 12.9, it just isn't usable.
It is hard enough using IDE's on a 15.4 and I much prefer 24-27" and dual screen at that.
The other problem with the iPad is that you cannot multitask (and I don't mean the dual app multitasking that the iPad has) When I write software I can have 5+ apps open at the same time.

, but I agree - I think a mouse or trackpad is just a better input method for some situations. I have adjusted and don't handle many operational tasks, so I haven't found it lacking personally. I know I use keyboard shortcuts all day, but I am assuming you mean mapping or more advanced shortcuts.

Not advances ones. In an programming IDE I do most of my work with shortcuts, from manipulating text to refactoring and beyond. Its all committed to muscle memory.

I don't think we are there yet in that area. Excel is not ideal for the iPad, it's just better suited for the traditional PC environment that we are used to - mouse support and a full featured app would change that. I actually love Photo editing on the iPad as I feel it's very intuitive and there are plenty of apps to do so. It'll definitely be interesting how kids react to all this stuff in the future - I expect them to not think about this stuff as much as you or I probably did coming up. They'll simply use what is most accessible and what gets the job done. I think Apple is in a prime position to make the iPad a very attractive platform for productivity - they just need to cut out all the BS and get aggressive from a software perspective.

I'd agree there is room for improvement on the software side of the iPad.
If you could add multiple keyboards and screens etc but by the time this happens, computing devices will probably have moved to vm's in the cloud.

 

[ipponrg]

Microprocessor purpose built for special applications, like ecus, elevators and microwaves are not the same class of computer that one would use when writing a term paper. An iPad and surface pro are closer together than a microchip powering a dishwasher and a batttery operates candelabra on a timer.

They still have computers though. If you open any computer engineering book describing what a computer is, it’s a really vague term hence why the “real computer” is what Microsoft is trying to stretch here

I don’t have my book to take pictures, but you can check wiki here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer
[doublepost=1544190817][/doublepost]

computing devices will probably have moved to vm's in the cloud.

They would have to get rid of the latency immensely. When using cloud IDEs the delay is very annoying

 

[Sabelonada]

They still have computers though. If you open any computer engineering book describing what a computer is, it’s a really vague term hence why the “real computer” is what Microsoft is trying to stretch here

I don’t have my book to take pictures, but you can check wiki here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer
[doublepost=1544190817][/doublepost]

They would have to get rid of the latency immensely. When using cloud IDEs the delay is very annoying

Apple is the one stretching what a "computer" is with the iPad.

Technically, yes, it computes and is a computer. In the sense that is a very personal device, one user seems to be a basic design assumption, the iPad could also be considered a personal computer. However it's not a PC in the Microsoft/Windows sense. We all know there is an unspoken acceptance that a PC is a general purpose, flexible, and utilitarian device which allows multitasking and freedom to define storage structure and media.

I don't think any of us are saying that the iPad lacks the capacity to be a more functional device. It is very much hamstrung by iOS. Even one of the most vocal defenders of the iPad as a computer admits that it will be more accepted as a computer when it offers functionality which is expected on a PC.

 

[Abazigal]

https://twitter.com/tldtoday/status/1071060949115711488

 

[I7guy]

Missing the point. The OP has decided that he wants to call the iPad a ‘computer’ because it suits him. HE HAS expanded the term to suit himself. That’s fine and his/her prerogative. Except when I did it you moan they aren’t the same class. Is this a true statement in absolute terms;
A computer is a device that computes?
(The clue is in the name).

They and you need to understand that the vast majority of people won’t see it that way for quite some time.
“Probably won’t get offered a surface either”, yeah. You keep telling yourself that.
I have a job in a John Lewis store today do I can put my theory to the test just for my own curiosity.

I’ll Go in and say, “Please point me to the computers”. After they point north, I’ll start going east, (or west), to the iPads I’ll turn back saying, “you mean over here?”
Something tells me I’ll be redirected.

You missed the point as well. You are focusing on a shape to decide nomenclature.

Try this experiment. Take two pieces of paper and cut out the center. Lay an iPad and surface on the table. Cover each device with the paper and ask your customers to point to the computer.

 

[DNichter]

I use Davinci Resolve and there are a lot of shortcuts. When on laptop, I find 15.4" barely enough real-estate.

I would hate to use XCode or any other IDE on 12.9, it just isn't usable.
It is hard enough using IDE's on a 15.4 and I much prefer 24-27" and dual screen at that.
The other problem with the iPad is that you cannot multitask (and I don't mean the dual app multitasking that the iPad has) When I write software I can have 5+ apps open at the same time.

Not advances ones. In an programming IDE I do most of my work with shortcuts, from manipulating text to refactoring and beyond. Its all committed to muscle memory.


I'd agree there is room for improvement on the software side of the iPad.
If you could add multiple keyboards and screens etc but by the time this happens, computing devices will probably have moved to vm's in the cloud.

From your perspective, I don't know if an iPad will ever work, which is totally fair. I think there is a clear place for both moving forward.
[doublepost=1544197272][/doublepost]

Although you have some valid points, I just want to bring up that developing on an iPad will be a complete cluster even for the younger generation. With laptops, you get the full UI experience as well as stability when using it on your lap. The iPad will never at any point accomplish this unless they have a built in keyboard with a fully enabled OS which basically makes it a laptop.

The iPad is really a simple portable device that fits how people today use it which is media consumption and very light task work. If it ends up requiring dock and peripherals to achieve all professional work, it’s basically cannibalizing on MacBooks and not solving any actual people problems.

Perhaps part of the reason some are reluctant to accept this fact is due to not understanding and experiencing the actual use cases.

That's a good point. I'd actually love a clam shell iOS laptop. I'd imagine basically two iPad Pro's joined with a hinge and a touchscreen trackpad/keyboard combo that dynamically changed depending on the app being used (similar to touch bar). I think something like this would be very cool, but who knows if it would ever happen. I don't think Apple would have any issue cannibalizing MacBooks as I am sure they would prefer to have users in their closed ecosystem.

 

[bondr006]

I think there is a ton of room for improvement. I expect this to be one of Apple's primary focuses over the next few years. The potential is huge, they just need to really focus on differentiating iPad software. For video editing, I have heard Luma Fusion is awesome, but I don't have any experience myself. I actually think Xcode for iOS will be released at WWDC this year so I think it'll open the platform to more software developers. I found the 12.9 to be acceptable from a screen real estate perspective, but I agree - I think a mouse or trackpad is just a better input method for some situations. I have adjusted and don't handle many operational tasks, so I haven't found it lacking personally. I know I use keyboard shortcuts all day, but I am assuming you mean mapping or more advanced shortcuts. I don't think we are there yet in that area. Excel is not ideal for the iPad, it's just better suited for the traditional PC environment that we are used to - mouse support and a full featured app would change that. I actually love Photo editing on the iPad as I feel it's very intuitive and there are plenty of apps to do so. It'll definitely be interesting how kids react to all this stuff in the future - I expect them to not think about this stuff as much as you or I probably did coming up. They'll simply use what is most accessible and what gets the job done. I think Apple is in a prime position to make the iPad a very attractive platform for productivity - they just need to cut out all the BS and get aggressive from a software perspective.

I agree with you 100%. And, from an earlier post of yours....yes, I am jealous that some people such as yourself can totally replace their laptop or desktop with the iPad Pro. I want an iPad pro 12.9" so bad, I can taste it. I love the design of it. I love the quality of it. I love the screen and the ability to take notes and sketch. I love the hardware that is put into it. But, I do not love the OS that operates it. My workflow would be very cumbersome to impossible for me with iOS as it is. Yes, I do love iOS for my phone, but something the size of the iPad with the hardware specs it has, deserves a fuller featured OS. I listed some things in an earlier post that I would need from the OS to switch over completely to the iPad Pro. I have highlighted the most important ones that would be a must for me.

1. iOS for iPad Pro should have the ability to set your own default apps for things like email, web browser, photo editor, etc. just like you can do on a Mac or PC.

2. iOS for iPad Pro should have a real file manager like Finder or Explorer so you can store and arrange your files the way you want to. The ability to click on a file and open it with the app of your choice is also a must. I just can't stand the fact that you are forced to save files in the app they were created in. How cumbersome is that?

3. The ability to use a mouse or put a touch pad on the "Smart Keyboard". For the iPad Pro to truly be a Mac or PC replacement, this would be a must. I can mirror an iPad to my Apple TV, but instead of a keyboard and mouse to control it, I have to actually have the iPad in my lap. Same thing when I hook one up to a monitor with an HDMI cable. I am 58 and my eyes aren't what they used to be, so I enjoy my 27" monitor when I sit down at my desk to do work. Out in the field and traveling, the 12.9" screen is fine.

4. And, for the ease of transferring files on and off an iPad and expanding its storage, it needs a micro SD card slot or USB. I would prefer the micro SD for the smaller footprint.

5. I am a Real Estate Broker, and I need my machine to be able to run full complex web applications on a full desktop browser, not a mobile browser. Until iPad can do this, it cannot replace my PC.

The only other thing I would do, is get a better keyboard for it. The one that Apple makes feels squishy and does not have enough travel for me. I really like the design of the Brydge keyboards. As much a I like my Surface Pro, if Apple could include at least the 3 features I highlighted, I would switch over in an instant.

 

[DNichter]

I agree with you 100%. And, from an earlier post of yours....yes, I am jealous that some people such as yourself can totally replace their laptop or desktop with the iPad Pro. I want an iPad pro 12.9" so bad, I can taste it. I love the design of it. I love the quality of it. I love the screen and the ability to take notes and sketch. I love the hardware that is put into it. But, I do not love the OS that operates it. My workflow would be very cumbersome to impossible for me with iOS as it is. Yes, I do love iOS for my phone, but something the size of the iPad with the hardware specs it has, deserves a fuller featured OS. I listed some things in an earlier post that I would need from the OS to switch over completely to the iPad Pro. I have highlighted the most important ones that would be a must for me.

1. iOS for iPad Pro should have the ability to set your own default apps for things like email, web browser, photo editor, etc. just like you can do on a Mac or PC.

2. iOS for iPad Pro should have a real file manager like Finder or Explorer so you can store and arrange your files the way you want to. The ability to click on a file and open it with the app of your choice is also a must. I just can't stand the fact that you are forced to save files in the app they were created in. How cumbersome is that?

3. The ability to use a mouse or put a touch pad on the "Smart Keyboard". For the iPad Pro to truly be a Mac or PC replacement, this would be a must. I can mirror an iPad to my Apple TV, but instead of a keyboard and mouse to control it, I have to actually have the iPad in my lap. Same thing when I hook one up to a monitor with an HDMI cable. I am 58 and my eyes aren't what they used to be, so I enjoy my 27" monitor when I sit down at my desk to do work. Out in the field and traveling, the 12.9" screen is fine.

4. And, for the ease of transferring files on and off an iPad and expanding its storage, it needs a micro SD card slot or USB. I would prefer the micro SD for the smaller footprint.

5. I am a Real Estate Broker, and I need my machine to be able to run full complex web applications on a full desktop browser, not a mobile browser. Until iPad can do this, it cannot replace my PC.

The only other thing I would do, is get a better keyboard for it. The one that Apple makes feels squishy and does not have enough travel for me. I really like the design of the Brydge keyboards. If Apple could include at least the 3 features I highlighted, I would switch over in an instant.

I'd say you aren't too far off then, although I am not sure what will or won't come. The default apps thing is tricky. I can certainly see why Apple would impose this restriction, but I know a ton of people would like this option. See, I don't have any real issues with the Files app as is, but I would more so want a proper download manager in Safari. I just don't have a ton of files that I need to open in multiple apps, they are typically opening in one. I get the complaint though, I feel improvements could be made. Trackpad usage and proper external display support would be great - as long as developers get on board. I want Apple to impose pretty strict requirements for iPad apps (split view, auto layout, external display support, etc.). There are USB C and lightning drives today, but they should be implemented right in Files, not a separate app. It's clunky for sure. A full desktop browser, I totally get - I would like the same thing and hope we get there one day. I know Apple wants a good experience and prefers consistency in iOS, so we'll see, but I never felt Safari on macOS wasn't a good experience. I feel like a Real Estate Broker would be an ideal position for someone to use an iPad exclusively. I don't think you are too far off from your requests.

 

[bondr006]

I think it would be perfect also. You don't know how bad I want to make the switch. Come on Apple!

 

[H2SO4]

You missed the point as well. You are focusing on a shape to decide nomenclature.

Try this experiment. Take two pieces of paper and cut out the center. Lay an iPad and surface on the table. Cover each device with the paper and ask your customers to point to the computer.

Not at all. The iMac, Mac Pro - Cylinder and MacBook Pro all have completely different shapes yet would all be deemed a computer flat out. The iPad, no.
I've already suggested the OP can call the device whatever he/she/they like.
Your example isn't great. It relies on hiding something.
Again, you've deliberately missed my question.
A computer is a device that computes. Yes or no?
It may have a different primary function but it either computes or has a component that computes.

An anlogy that hides nothing unlike yours;
A calculators PRIMARY FUNCTION IS TO COMPUTE. If a friend said, "Can you pass my computer?", and his her calculator was right in front of you but his/her laptop/desktop was in a completely different room. Would you reach for the calculator?
I'm guessing no, Wanna know why, because, (and you know this), it is not widely accepted to be described as a computer. Same goes for the iPad, but a minority see it that way and that's up to them.
Further to that, if you did decide to bring back the calculator I'm gonna suggest most people would be like, WTF???

If you want to go through life calling things by unconventional names because you feel like it, have at it. (Which is not to say you're wrong in absolute terms), understand that the opinion of MOST will differ from yours.

 

[I7guy]

Not at all. The iMac, Mac Pro - Cylinder and MacBook Pro all have completely different shapes yet would all be deemed a computer flat out. The iPad, no.
I've already suggested the OP can call the device whatever he/she/they like.
Your example isn't great. It relies on hiding something.
Again, you've deliberately missed my question.
A computer is a device that computes. Yes or no?
It may have a different primary function but it either computes or has a component that computes.

An anlogy that hides nothing unlike yours;
A calculators PRIMARY FUNCTION IS TO COMPUTE. If a friend said, "Can you pass my computer?", and his her calculator was right in front of you but his/her laptop/desktop was in a completely different room. Would you reach for the calculator?
I'm guessing no, Wanna know why, because, (and you know this), it is not widely accepted to be described as a computer. Same goes for the iPad, but a minority see it that way and that's up to them.
Further to that, if you did decide to bring back the calculator I'm gonna suggest most people would be like, WTF???

If you want to go through life calling things by unconventional names because you feel like it, have at it. (Which is not to say you're wrong in absolute terms), understand that the opinion of MOST will differ from yours.

You’re being deliberately pedantic. A slide rule and abacus computes also.

Devices that have microprocessors are not computers in the way a public perceives then as they are fixed function.

The term “real computer” and “computer “ have no real significance and it’s my guess most people tell a computer by its shape.

Buts that is where the analogy falls flat. Cover ansurface pro and iPad with a sheet and ask the public, which if any isnthe computer...what will the result be.

 

[Sabelonada]

You’re being deliberately pedantic. A slide rule and abacus computes also.

Devices that have microprocessors are not computers in the way a public perceives then as they are fixed function.

The term “real computer” and “computer “ have no real significance and it’s my guess most people tell a computer by its shape.

Buts that is where the analogy falls flat. Cover ansurface pro and iPad with a sheet and ask the public, which if any isnthe computer...what will the result be.

What would the point of that be? It could very well also demonstrate how much the iPad's lack of general PC functionality has shaped the perception of what a tablet computer can do to the point both would be dismissed as "not computer."

 

[Ladybug]

On Apple's web site the iPad is listed in its own category rather than with the Mac computers/laptops.

As much as I love my iPad and will admit it can replace certain functions that can also be done on a computer, I don’t consider it a computer. Even Apple list it separate so I assume they don’t either.

Just saying

 

[I7guy]

What would the point of that be? It could very well also demonstrate how much the iPad's lack of general PC functionality has shaped the perception of what a tablet computer can do to the point both would be dismissed as "not computer."

That's the point. Shape is irrelevant as to what a computer is, but it's my guess that is the public perception.

 

[dilbert99]

They would have to get rid of the latency immensely. When using cloud IDEs the delay is very annoying

Off point but responding to a double post is near impossible on an iPad paired with Macrumors. You can’t select text and then expand it. - on my iPad at the moment.

Back on point. I have used virtual machines on an on premise “cloud” for years and don’t notice any latency. (Citrix)
I have done remoting to computers over the internet and the latency there is a bit annoying. That probably has a lot to do with the remoting software though. (Skype).
I have remoted in to servers and worked on them and don’t find latency an issue (RDP) but then again I am not using an ide on them.
I have remoted in via Citrix from home into a cloud virtual machine and didn’t find the delay annoying.
I am going to try a Linux vm in the cloud shortly where I will have an ide so will be testing out what an ide is like there.

Remoting using the correct software has come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. You just have to ensure that the remote servers are in the same country to lessen the physical distance latency and also ensure that link is going over land and not round tripping over satellite.

 

[KPOM]

Out of sincere curiosity, how was the transition to Office on the iPad? Losing the cursor and having to touch the screen for fine control is a significant change. The difference being moving my hand to my mouse, trackball, or trackpad or to the screen. The distance is quite smaller if the screen isn't the input device.

It seems that Apple (maybe just Steve Jobs) is/was convinced that is a bad process. Yet, in pushing the iPad as a laptop replacement, that's exactly the interaction required. I think this change is inevitable as all screens will eventually become touch enabled.

I found it quite amusing when I went to the Apple store with a Mac person. She was looking at the MacBook Pro and kept trying to interact with the screen. I watched and reminded her that doesn't work on a Mac. She has seen me use my Surface Pro with touch, keyboard, and pen so I am guessing she assumed that Apple would also offer that.

Given her experience and yours, I think Apple is wrong in saying that touch on MacBooks is bad. For an iMac, probably. Unless it offers a form factor similar to the Surface Studio. But with a laptop, my hands are often inches away from the screen anyhow. And for those growing up with tablets, that is the natural way to interact with a computer.

Apple sells more than twice as many iPads as they do Macs, though iPad draws in more revenue. My guess is that Apple sees the iPad as the future, and prefers to build it up to do what people want from a “real computer” rather than go through the effort of adding touch to Macs. As Windows 8 showed (and many Windows applications such as Adobe Acrobat still show), that effort isn’t trivial. Adding touch to a platform built for a keyboard and mouse may be much more difficult than building in file and multitasking capabilities to a platform built from day 1 with touch in mind.

 

[H2SO4]

You’re being deliberately pedantic. A slide rule and abacus computes also.

Devices that have microprocessors are not computers in the way a public perceives then as they are fixed function.

The term “real computer” and “computer “ have no real significance and it’s my guess most people tell a computer by its shape.

Buts that is where the analogy falls flat. Cover ansurface pro and iPad with a sheet and ask the public, which if any isnthe computer...what will the result be.

Your analogy is still poor, and YES, the slide rule and abacus if you like are computers, again, Let people feel the shapes of a Mac Pro and an iPad they will then say the Mac Pro isn’t.
Half cover an Etch a sketch in the same way, or a dumb terminal and then maybe both are.
You’re are relying on deception and avoiding the question. That tells me all I need to know.
Thankyou.
But you’ve finally seen it and said so above. “In the way a public perceives them......”