Microsoft Supports Epic Games, Says Apple Blocking Access to Unreal Engine Would Harm Game Creators

[MacRumors]

Fortnite creator Epic Games has argued that Apple's plan to terminate its Developer Program membership would be "overbroad retaliation" and "an unlawful effort to maintain its monopoly and chill any action by others who might dare oppose Apple."

Earlier this month, Epic Games strategically violated Apple's rules regarding in-app purchases by introducing its own direct payment option for in-game currency in its hit game Fortnite on iOS. Apple promptly removed Fortnite from the App Store and subsequently informed Epic Games that its Developer Program membership would be terminated within two weeks unless it resubmits Fortnite without the direct payment option.

By having its Developer Program membership terminated, Epic Games would not only lose its ability to develop Fortnite for iOS, but also its popular game engine Unreal Engine for iOS and macOS, which thousands of developers rely on for their games.

In a court filing [PDF] today, Epic Games said that multiple Unreal Engine licensees have contacted the company "expressing grave concern over Apple's actions and its impact on their iOS and macOS-bound projects," including Microsoft.

In a declaration in support of Epic Games [PDF], Microsoft gaming executive Kevin Gammill wrote that "Apple's discontinuation of Epic's ability to develop and support Unreal Engine for iOS or macOS will harm game creators and gamers." Specifically, Gammill said that games utilizing Unreal Engine will be put at a "substantial disadvantage," citing Microsoft's own racing game Forza Street for iPhone and iPad as an example.

Apple has argued that Epic Games committed "self-inflicted wounds" by intentionally violating its rules, noting that it could have proceeded with its lawsuit without introducing a direct payment option in the Fortnite app. Apple has also said that it would be happy to have Fortnite back on the App Store if Epic Games addresses the violations.

A hearing related to Epic Games' request for a preliminary injunction, which would force Apple to put Fortnite back on the App Store during the legal proceedings, is set for tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. Pacific Time in California court.

Article Link: Microsoft Supports Epic Games, Says Apple Blocking Access to Unreal Engine Would Harm Game Creators

 

[farewelwilliams]

I'm going to leave this quote here:

"We're now in a time where indie developers can flourish on the App Store and Steam and all these distribution mechanisms that can enable a small developer to succeed" -Tim Sweeney

40 seconds in:

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

The plot thickens...

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

I have a feeling Epic Games is about to get PAID.

 

[Freida]

Apple has to lose this. The conditions are daylight robbery. I find the epic promo video amazingly valid.
Back then Apple opposed MS as being the bully and now it is the same but Apple is the bully.
Hahahaha, how things change.

 

[Realityck]

Just looking at the number of List of Unreal Engine games on Wikipedia is impressive. This case impacting all those developers working with Unreal Engine 4 is disturbing. Microsoft even has a Unreal Engine 5 title listed.

 

[ouimetnick]

So because of Epic's willingness to violate the TOS, and Apple's unfair TOS, the smaller guys using the Unreal Engine get to suffer. I'm conflicted. I support Apple enforcing their TOS that Epic agreed and signed, but I don't agree with the actual TOS either. If Apple allowed users to install apps through outside sources like they do with macOS, this wouldn't be an issue. Before people complain about security issues, why does macOS seem to be doing fine? If Apple doesn't want to adjust their TOS, let Epic host their own apps on their own infrastructure and let users download and install them that way.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

Here is a company, with a competing platform, and whose software uses the Epic engine — what would you expect them to say? Still, one out of 1000+ developers showing support for Epic isn’t much support at all.

It sounds like all Epic has to do right now is resubmit their app without the circumventing mechanism. They can still proceed with their lawsuit, but at least their engine would still be available. Sounds pretty simple, and reasonable to me.

 

[nitramluap]

Apple has to lose this. The conditions are daylight robbery. I find the epic promo video amazingly valid.
Back then Apple opposed MS as being the bully and now it is the same but Apple is the bully.
Hahahaha, how things change.

Well, I'm a small independent developer and I disagree. The 30% is fair for what is offered from Apple's side: tax documentation, billing arrangements in different countries, visibility on the App Store, detailed metrics on usage, and more...

I dislike how 'independent developers' are OK with this until they suddenly become huge companies with million dollar budgets (and profits) - then it's suddenly 'unfair' because what they're paying Apple now amounts to millions of dollars (even though it's still the same 15/30%). It's disgusting actually, and I'll be really annoyed if the big developers pay less proportionally than the smaller ones - that's really unfair (you know, like the US tax system... great model that).

 

[SpringKid]

Easy fix: Epic revert their change. Done. Don't put this on Apple.

 

[robinp]

Surprising that MS would support this given it has the potential to tear down the entire Xbox business model

 

[johnsc3]

Just looking at the number of List of Unreal Engine games on Wikipedia is impressive. This case impacting all those developers is disturbing.

Fortnite creator Epic Games has argued that Apple's plan to terminate its Developer Program membership would be "overbroad retaliation" and "an unlawful effort to maintain its monopoly and chill any action by others who might dare oppose Apple."

Earlier this month, Epic Games strategically violated Apple's rules regarding in-app purchases by introducing its own direct payment option for in-game currency in its hit game Fortnite on iOS. Apple promptly removed Fortnite from the App Store and subsequently informed Epic Games that its Developer Program membership would be terminated within two weeks unless it resubmits Fortnite without the direct payment option.

By having its Developer Program membership terminated, Epic Games would not only lose its ability to develop Fortnite for iOS, but also its popular game engine Unreal Engine for iOS and macOS, which thousands of developers rely on for their games.

In a court filing [PDF] today, Epic Games said that multiple Unreal Engine licensees have contacted the company "expressing grave concern over Apple's actions and its impact on their iOS and macOS-bound projects," including Microsoft.

In a declaration in support of Epic Games [PDF], Microsoft gaming executive Kevin Gammill wrote that "Apple's discontinuation of Epic's ability to develop and support Unreal Engine for iOS or macOS will harm game creators and gamers." Specifically, Gammill said that games utilizing Unreal Engine will be put at a "substantial disadvantage," citing Microsoft's own racing game Forza Street for iPhone and iPad as an example.

Apple has argued that Epic Games committed "self-inflicted wounds" by intentionally violating its rules, noting that it could have proceeded with its lawsuit without introducing a direct payment option in the Fortnite app. Apple has also said that it would be happy to have Fortnite back on the App Store if Epic Games addresses the violations.

A hearing related to Epic Games' request for a preliminary injunction, which would force Apple to put Fortnite back on the App Store during the legal proceedings, is set for tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. Pacific Time in California court.

Article Link: Microsoft Supports Epic Games, Says Apple Blocking Access to Unreal Engine Would Harm Game Creators

Microsoft should have nothing to say about this or any matter concerning fair operating practices.

Seems that M$ is still sour about Windows Mobile and the potential millions, if not billions they lost out on.

 

[Ael_MR]

Epic games isn’t some white knight trying to save consumers. They simply want to gain market share with their store and have tried multiple strategies to do that. What should be regulated is the gambling aspect that has generated billions of dollars off of children.

 

[johnsc3]

Easy fix: Epic revert their change. Done. Don't put this on Apple.

You don’t like it so you put in a smear campaign- harm other developers in the process and blame Apple for enforcing a long standing agreement.

 

[nattK]

Lol I'm sure Microsoft will be singing a different tune when Epic decides to offer an alternate payment method and/or store on Xbox.

 

[B_ctrim]

So because of Epic's willingness to violate the TOS, and Apple's unfair TOS, the smaller guys using the Unreal Engine get to suffer. I'm conflicted. I support Apple enforcing their TOS that Epic agreed and signed, but I don't agree with the actual TOS either. If Apple allowed users to install apps through outside sources like they do with macOS, this wouldn't be an issue. Before people complain about security issues, why does macOS seem to be doing fine? If Apple doesn't want to adjust their TOS, let Epic host their own apps on their own infrastructure and let users download and install them that way.

So MS should let me install games from another store on my Xbox and also Playstation.

 

[Chinch07]

Does this mean Microsoft is lowering the 30% they get via the Xbox marketplace?

 

[trifid]

30% didn’t kill the App Store model. SaaS did. <- Great article on why 30% is obsolete.

 

[Realityck]

Related to topic
Apple is holding the Unreal Engine hostage, Epic says in new motion - The Verge 8/23

New filing today

The motion centers on iOS support for the Unreal Engine, which Apple has threatened to revoke as part of Epic’s broader loss of developer privileges. Epic has asked the court to restrain Apple from revoking that access while the case is ongoing. Apple responded to the request on Friday, emphasizing that it was enforcing previously stated policies, but not denying that iOS support was at risk.

Epic says removing support would be unnecessarily punitive, affecting developers who have built on Epic’s engine but have no direct interest in the case. “The breadth of Apple’s retaliation is itself an unlawful effort to maintain its monopoly and chill any action by others who might dare oppose Apple,” the motion reads.

The filing came alongside a new declaration from Microsoft in support of Epic’s motion, emphasizing how disastrous it would be to revoke Epic’s access to Apple’s developer tools.

 

[johnsc3]

Epic games isn’t some white knight trying to save consumers. They simply want to gain market share with their store and have tried multiple strategies to do that. What should be regulated is the gambling aspect that has generated billions of dollars off of children.

Exactly.

Epic is willing to harm software developers that license their technology and the customers who buy their software. What then, those who license Epic’s Software only for iOS, what happens to them?

 

[TomMcIn]

Having MS, a company whose stores no longer exist, telling someone with a sustainable store operation, how they should do business, is rich.

 

[falainber]

Easy fix: Epic revert their change. Done. Don't put this on Apple.

Better fix: government mandates that each platform should allow for alternative app stores. Problem solved!

 

[Freida]

And here lies the problem. Surely, 30% is not much when you are small and this is taken care of but when it gets out small and suddenly you pay millions I'm sure you wouldn't be ok with it.

I would rather Apple introduces tresholds or reduce the fees overall.
The App store is massively profitable for Apple and the profit they make from running just App store is something any other company could dream about. And thats essentially without any hard work.

30% is just too much especially when you grow. I'm with Epic on this one.

Apple is holding monopoly pretty much and it behaves like monopoly. Time for change.

Lets reverse that. There is no way Apple would be happy to pay someone 30% of their profit and you can bet that if Apple was in Epic shoes that would squeeze the other side until they would get better deal. Apple does this with everyone and yet they act like 'victims' here.

Nah, Apple would never allow this if it was the other way around so its time that Apple gets Apple treatment.

Monopoly is almost always never good.

Well, I'm a small independent developer and I disagree. The 30% is fair for what is offered from Apple's side: tax documentation, billing arrangements in different countries, visibility on the App Store, detailed metrics on usage, and more...

I dislike how 'independent developers' are OK with this until they suddenly become huge companies with million dollar budgets (and profits) - then it's suddenly 'unfair' because what they're paying Apple now amounts to millions of dollars (even though it's still the same 15/30%). It's disgusting actually, and I'll be really annoyed if the big developers pay less proportionally than the smaller ones - that's really unfair (you know, like the US tax system... great model that).

 

[itsmilo]

So MS should let me install games from another store on my Xbox and also Playstation.

you can? There is the EA Store and what not on my XBox One as we speak

 

[aneftp]

I see both sides. Apple wants to control the distribution and of course profit.

epic wants to use Apple eco system and of course profit.

The real issue is the money. Its always about money and the in app purchases.

I hate in app purchases. That’s why I won’t play any mobile games any more.

Why won’t epic offer in app 30 percent cheaper on its own website and people can load coins into their games. Oops. They won’t. They charge the same for fornite via desktop browser vs iOS in app.