Microsoft Surface Beats iPad in Design, Productivity, and Accessory Use in New J.D. Power Study

[TheHateMachine]

Give them some MacBooks and they'll love them even more.

No thanks, Windows PCs are far easier to manage in our enterprise.

And your Windows computer boots from power off in 3 seconds? Do you have any proof of this?

Even if that is the case, iPads don't need to be powered off anyway. They wake instantly when they need to be used.

Since Windows 8, UEFI and SSD's Windows PCs have been booting extremely fast from an off state. My PC at home takes around 4 and a half seconds from an off state to get into the login screen.

 

[atomic.flip]

It should, but it hasn't, and it won't .... unfortunately.

Apple looks more and more like an Ostrich with it's head in the sand when it comes to innovation on MacOS. Where is the biometric security, where is even just a basic touch interface outside of iOS?

iOS was a fantastic bridge for building adoption of new computing standards (5 years ago) but now.... it's stale, boring, limited and frankly riddled with silly bugs that you'd expect them to nail down rather quickly.

Also would it be too much to ask for a freaking "CHANGE LOG". Every single Microsoft Windows 10 Insiders Build includes an inventory of known limitations, fixed bugs and new bugs introduced. We never get much from Apple on this front and frankly it seems more like laziness rather than being secretive to maintain a competitive edge.

Even their phone design is trailing. Look at the new Samsung S8. The bezels on the 6 Plus and 7 Plus make the phone uncomfortable to use, even for an iOS veteran.

Finally let's just get this one out of the way. Siri is limited and needs a voice synthesizer update. Cortana is much more capable, uses more natural language processing and actually makes recommendations that are meaningful to the user.

Yeah it wasn't always this way. Microsoft had a number of poorly executed releases prior to Windows 10. But feature for feature they are now matching and quite substantially exceeding Apple.

Oh and why is my 1.5 year old Microsoft Surface Pro 4 still superior to a current MacBook or MacBook air in both performance and versatility?

I've been a devout Apple advocate for over a decade. But I find myself "enjoying" Microsoft's OS and devices, more and more each day and more and more with every software release. I haven't felt that way about iOS or MacOS in at least 2 or 3 years.

 

[BaccaBossMC]

I personally find that the Surface is an annoying device to use. Pretty slow unless you are totally loaded and max out the Pro, and the battery is fairly lousy.

 

[profets]

Since Windows 8, UEFI and SSD's Windows PCs have been booting extremely fast from an off state. My PC at home takes around 4 and a half seconds from an off state to get into the login screen.

I'd love to see a recording of this. Maybe I'll search on youtube for some.

But it's all unnecessary anyway when we have computers that wake from sleep instantly.

Edit: found some on youtube. LOL this one is great. They start the timer after the bios posts:

 

[Shintsu]

This feels weird to be commenting, because I have historically always disliked Apple. But I'm sick of Microsoft and Windows. While their UI might be better now and usability can be ok, please consider how little Microsoft cares about actually fixing some of the awful things that are deep in the core of Windows and have been for many versions. They still seem to lack general respect for the user. Perfect example, I'm typing a document in Windows after allowing it to install updates. It pops up as I'm mid-sentence, I naturally hit space as I was typing and didn't react fast enough to this stupid pop up. And there goes my computer accepting my space bar press as "Yes reboot now".

Maybe Apple isn't this visionary company (they really aren't), but at least idiotic garbage design like that doesn't make it in. Considering what I think a tablet is useful for (Light web browsing, online shopping, streaming videos, playing certain kinds of games, very light note taking), why would I want clunky Windows to ruin that? It has all the baggage that comes with running Windows, installing updates, being vulnerable to ransomware, etc. And Microsoft has no qualms about their utter lack of privacy, they were one of the first companies to happily partake in PRISM. I feel like using Windows is to say you don't really care if someone has access to all your files and data, should someone take an interest in acquiring them.

Call it paranoid, but why support a company that is so willing to undermine your privacy and intelligence? Not saying Apple doesn't do the same, but at least they don't do it as much. Though these days I'm starting to look at Linux, but not a fan of all the tinkering that will be involved...

 

[maflynn]

The iPad runs full programs and does have a file system. But that's besides the point, which you seem to miss anyway.

MS Office is less powerful, Photoshop, Lightroom are less powerful. I cannot easily attach a PDF, TXT and image file in the same email. While I love my iPhone, iOS has limitations.

 

[atomic.flip]

Since Windows 8, UEFI and SSD's Windows PCs have been booting extremely fast from an off state. My PC at home takes around 4 and a half seconds from an off state to get into the login screen.

Actually, yeah. Go take a look for yourself. Just turn on a surface pro 4 or a surface book. You can argue design aesthetics but performance wise. MacOS is trailing and iOS is just about holding it's own.

Don't confuse this with a comparison to "Android". That OS still has a number of nagging issues that prevent me from ever recommending it over iOS, but Windows 10 Mobile.... that's a different story. They just need more apps and with the UWP single build design approach they will get them. That goes well beyond anything Apple is doing on the development side of things.

 

[maflynn]

Yet iPad still outsells most PCs from most manufacturers.

Really? More then what Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo sells?

 

[Blu-ray1972]

Give them some MacBooks and they'll love them even more.

Apple looks more and more like an Ostrich with it's head in the sand when it comes to innovation on MacOS. Where is the biometric security, where is even just a basic touch interface outside of iOS?

Macbook Pro Touchbar? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207054

 

[profets]

MS Office is less powerful, Photoshop, Lightroom are less powerful. I cannot easily attach a PDF, TXT and image file in the same email. While I love my iPhone, iOS has limitations.

Like I said earlier. Cars and trucks. We're a very niche sliver of technically savvy users who make more use from a Mac or Windows PC compared to what most people need.

 

[atomic.flip]

This feels weird to be commenting, because I have historically always disliked Apple. But I'm sick of Microsoft and Windows. While their UI might be better now and usability can be ok, please consider how little Microsoft cares about actually fixing some of the awful things that are deep in the core of Windows and have been for many versions. They still seem to lack general respect for the user. Perfect example, I'm typing a document in Windows after allowing it to install updates. It pops up as I'm mid-sentence, I naturally hit space as I was typing and didn't react fast enough to this stupid pop up. And there goes my computer accepting my space bar press as "Yes reboot now".

Maybe Apple isn't this visionary company (they really aren't), but at least idiotic garbage design like that doesn't make it in. Considering what I think a tablet is useful for (Light web browsing, online shopping, streaming videos, playing certain kinds of games, very light note taking), why would I want clunky Windows to ruin that? It has all the baggage that comes with running Windows, installing updates, being vulnerable to ransomware, etc. And Microsoft has no qualms about their utter lack of privacy, they were one of the first companies to happily partake in PRISM. I feel like using Windows is to say you don't really care if someone has access to all your files and data, should someone take an interest in acquiring them.

Call it paranoid, but why support a company that is so willing to undermine your privacy and intelligence? Not saying Apple doesn't do the same, but at least they don't do it as much. Though these days I'm starting to look at Linux, but not a fan of all the tinkering that will be involved...

The update process is tweaked to work around your usage schedule in the new Creators Update that will be released next week. I admit this was a massive PITA for me too.

 

[9081094]

This folks, is why Apple is coming out about the Mac and pro users.

I'm enjoying mine. Replaced my Air 2 with a surface Pro 4 and haven't looked back. Yes, iPad is the better tablet for general usage, but I can leave my 15" rMBP at home entirely with the SP4. I was skeptical of the concept at first, but it's definitely better than I initially thought. Microsoft hit a home run with the newest Surface keyboard cover.

In my opinion Microsoft was to early putting a full working OS on the surface. The hardware and software wasn't quite there. Fast forward till today: the hardware is capable and they've refined the software. In the meantime Apple stood still. Yes we had quite a few new iOS updates but nothing real exciting news for the iPad. As many already mentioned here before, it's still a phone OS. And that's strange considering Apple's vision with dedicated OS for each device.

I always thought they would make OSX touch capable with the dock, and all apps in launchpad. MS is so much better positioned today in enterprise with the surface. most companies use MS servers, exchange and office. MS will always let them integrate better with other MS products. Apple failed to see this coming and didn't do much the last four years. I really hope the coming iOS will deliver what is needed, but I'm afraid it will be too little too late.

Same for every Apple product. They haven't changed/evolved much this last four years while still being premium priced. This was possible four years ago when they stood above the rest. Today the market is on par with Apple and on many fronts ahead. It's nice there is movement on the Mac Pro front, but they should have done this three years ago. Most of the creative Pro's I know who used Final Cut Pro use premiere on Windows. Talking with them, I'm not seeing coming them back. Apple has neglected/not listening them too often in the past.

As for all Macs... they better have to redesign the whole line then simply put in new processors and USB C. Because that's a thing they should have been doing years ago and would have cost minimal effort.

Same for the iPhone: for now it's Samsung S8 which takes the crown. But I'm sure by the time the iPhone 8 comes to market there will be many (Chinese) brands offering the same and probably more than the Samsung S8 for less money. No way Apple can get away with a $ 1000 iphone 8.

When the iPhone 8 comes in October/September.... a few months later we will see the Samsung S9.

I'm wondering if Apple can keep up with the competition because for me the last years have proven, they can't.

It's good Apple made a public statement on Macs. But waiting till October or next year you are only able to wait that long if your products today are state of the art... can't really call any of apple's products that today.

And all the above things make me considering jumping ship. I'll wait till wwdc to see where iOS/OS X is heading. And then will probably leave a brand I've loved for more then 25 years.

 

[atomic.flip]

Macbook Pro Touchbar? https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207054

Fingerprints?! These have been on Windows machines as an optional integrated solution from every major manufacturer since Windows 2000 LOL

If they made the entire keyboard a touch surface with dynamic visuals then you'd get my attention. The little touch bar just doesn't cut it in the innovation department. (Something they could have done 5 years ago in one form or another but didn't)

 

[profets]

Really? More then what Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo sells?

Yup. Apple sold ~42 million iPads in 2016. Only less than PC sales from 2 manufacturers. And I can imagine how much lower the price points are on most of those PCs.

 

[freediverx]

you should read the whole article. Apple's sales "Held steady" with a minor .3 decrease in volume. Dell grew 3.1, Lenevo grew 14.6. Everyone else shrank. and that's just in QoQ. in YoY, Apple's PC sales decreased from their own high in 2015.

Wow, talk about cherry picking your stats. QoQ performance is irrelevant when comparing different companies with different product cycles, not to mention the effects of normal seasonal market variations. Longer term trends are more informative than any short term volatility.

In Q1 2016, Apple outperformed the PC industry as a whole YoY: 1% growth vs. 9.6% decline, globally, and 0.3% vs 6.6% decline in the US. Dell only grew 3.1% in US shipments, while losing 0.4% globally.

And of course these figures paint a very incomplete picture considering that Apple operates with a net profit margin of ~20% vs. Dell's ~5%. It's easy to inflate a company's sales figures when they're forced to sell their products at razor thin margins. Also let's not forget that Dell's biggest customers are in the enterprise, where product choice is driven by volume pricing rather than by end user preference.

 

[atomic.flip]

MS Office is less powerful, Photoshop, Lightroom are less powerful. I cannot easily attach a PDF, TXT and image file in the same email. While I love my iPhone, iOS has limitations.

Yes and one major pain in working with documents on iOS is the text selection process. It's a constant fiddling hit or miss to place the cursor where you want it. Microsoft actually (and I know this is a shock) has a better algorithm and greater accuracy for control of that on both their last phone iteration and Windows 10 on a such enabled display.

 

[Blu-ray1972]

Fingerprints?! These have been on Windows machines as an optional integrated solution from every major manufacturer since Windows 2000 LOL

If they made the entire keyboard a touch surface with dynamic visuals then you'd get my attention. The little touch bar just doesn't cut it in the innovation department. (Something they could have done 5 years ago in one form or another but didn't)

YOU asked this question "Where is the biometric security, where is even just a basic touch interface outside of iOS?"

So I provided you with an answer.

 

[atomic.flip]

YOU asked this question "Where is the biometric security, where is even just a basic touch interface outside of iOS?"

So I provided you with an answer.

Ok. Touche on the answer. BUT I hardly think a single solitary strip above the keyboard is sufficient when compared to an entire desktop or tablet size screen with full 10 point multitouch and ultra high dpi.

If absolutely nothing like touch on a display existed the MacBook Pro would be cutting edge by a wide margin. But not now... Believe me when I say this, I want Apple to prove me wrong on this front, but for now they have lost their edge. They have literally become an ideological equivalent of Microsoft in the late 90's.

The only thing keeping them afloat was sheer volume of vested users and software availability. Many pros would flock to Apple for specific capabilities in Music, Video and Graphic Art.

Now it's literally the other way around.

 

[gaximus]

And since he's passed they've only made one new product line, the Watch.

I think the better argument for similarities between then and now would be Apple chasing profit has slowly become a priority over making great products.

One new product line, but lots of variations on current lines, MacBook Air, iPad Air, iPad Pro, looks like 3 sizes of iPhone screens coming, the choice has become harder for the average customer.

 

[freediverx]

Perhaps, but then it seems JD Power illustrates that people are more satisfied with the SP over the iPad

No, it seems that JD Power conducted a lopsided comparison across two different product categories, omitting numerous key factors while placing undue emphasis on others.

 

[gaximus]

To be fair under Steve Job's watch you had the Apple II (1977), Apple II Plus (1979), Apple II Euro Plus (1979), Apple II J-Plus (1979), Apple IIe (1983), Apple IIc (1984) so lets not pretend it was always one model to rule them all.

That was when he was younger. When he came back to Apple after getting older and wiser, the first thing he did was cut all product lines but a laptop and desktop, one for pro users and one for average users.

 

[greenmeanie]

I won a free IPAD pro and sold it because of just what you said. It was just a big IPHONE to me and I already had a phone.

Well duh!

The iPad after many years is still just a big iPhone!

Innovate the iOS then you'll have my $ Apple.

 

[freediverx]

It did take 10 minutes at least to unlock. I was there. I saw it with my own two eyes. It was not an update. He was getting frustrated with it not 'opening' and several times mumbled 'why won't this **** thing open'.

See, an experienced Windows user could tell you that this is normal behavior for any Windows computer that's been used for a few months. All you have to do is spend a couple of days reinstalling the operating system from scratch and restoring your data and preferences and it'll be good as new, for at least a week or two.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

That was when he was younger. When he came back to Apple after getting older and wiser, the first thing he did was cut all product lines but a laptop and desktop, one for pro users and one for average users.

Well if we're picking and choosing from history I guess anyone can argue and dismiss anything.

 

[freediverx]

Maybe but IT departments prefer Windows given the ease of managing the computers with group policies.

Ah yes, because when judging the quality of a computer, one must always prioritize the needs of the IT department over the productivity of the end user.

Actually, Windows PCs aren't really easier to manage than Macs. A more accurate statement would be that Windows PCs are more conducive to IT department job security than Macs, as illustrated by IBM's recent work.

Only 5 Percent Of Mac Users At Ibm Need Help Desk Support, Compared To 40 Percent Of Pc Users
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/10/15/ibm-macs

"Previn revealed that IBM is now deploying 1,900 Macs per week, and there are currently 130,000 iOS and Mac devices at use within the company. All of these devices are supported by just 24 help desk staff members. Further, Previn revealed that just 5 percent of Mac users call IBM’s internal help desk for assistance, compared to 40 percent of PC users."