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Simple. The surface uses MS office "normal" software. Apple still has trouble mixing the iOS version of its software for productivity. In addition, yo have to in large part "learn" the iOS form the beginning, whereas the surface is already pretty intuitive for a windows user.

Right, iOS is simply no macOS replacement, not even close.
 
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Why do some of you still come here if you think Apple can do no right?


Screen Shot 2017-04-06 at 4.49.00 PM.png
 
In other words, you've hacked your PC to skip key essential system diagnostics when booting up.

no

But good at outing yourself for not knowing how modern computers actually work ;)

EFI is the replacement for BIOS. BIOS is a legacy technology that dates as far back as the early 8086 days. it was basic firmware that was required to enable and manage devices and hardware.

That has been replaced in modern computing. Apple too has moved their devices from BIOS based to UEFI (A deritivitive of EFI with more lock down capabilities).

What EFI allows for is the controlling of hardware and hardware initialization to be moved from the BIOS and firmware, to the Operating system.

This has dramatic performance improvements as it no longer needs to rely on the slow and extremely outdated BIOS technologies, which tend to add 5-15 seconds (and even longer on older machines) to the boot time, just for the BIOS to initialize everything

By moving to EFI and software based hardware startup and configuration. the PC can leverage the actual performance benefits of modern CPU and hardware architecture, including extremely fast boot times.

The problem is, Most people who build their own comptuers likely don't pay attention to this and just leave it on the default, which I believe for some explicable reason is still BIOS boot.


Further reading if you actually care to learn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface
 
...snip... Did slowly change many people to iPhones. Significant cost savings there.

A place I know started switching away from iPhones because the apps they used were apparently really prone to bugs following iOS updates, and each time an iOS update came out, a bunch of people would update (despite being advised not to) and nothing would work for them.

Since the updates are irreversible, it created a lot of problems and extra work.
[doublepost=1491512228][/doublepost]
Just wait till Tim's time is up. Now shareholders are very happy: low cost (no innovation), huge revenues (based on warmed up products, but this is not sustainable in the long run.

It's similar to cutting the fuel on a rocket... it will continue to climb for a while, but once it starts coming down, it will be difficult to regain control.
 
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no

But good at outing yourself for not knowing how modern computers actually work ;)

EFI is the replacement for BIOS. BIOS is a legacy technology that dates as far back as the early 8086 days. it was basic firmware that was required to enable and manage devices and hardware.

That has been replaced in modern computing. Apple too has moved their devices from BIOS based to UEFI (A deritivitive of EFI with more lock down capabilities).

What EFI allows for is the controlling of hardware and hardware initialization to be moved from the BIOS and firmware, to the Operating system.

This has dramatic performance improvements as it no longer needs to rely on the slow and extremely outdated BIOS technologies, which tend to add 5-15 seconds (and even longer on older machines) to the boot time, just for the BIOS to initialize everything

By moving to EFI and software based hardware startup and configuration. the PC can leverage the actual performance benefits of modern CPU and hardware architecture, including extremely fast boot times.

The problem is, Most people who build their own comptuers likely don't pay attention to this and just leave it on the default, which I believe for some *explicable reason is still BIOS boot.


Further reading if you actually care to learn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface
*inexplicable

And in defense of people who build their own stuff, don't a lot of cheaper mobos still require BIOS functionality or simply don't support EFI? I'm not having much luck finding where I remember seeing that, so I'm doubting my own memory...
 
A place I know started switching away from iPhones because the apps they used were apparently really prone to bugs following iOS updates, and each time an iOS update came out, a bunch of people would update (despite being advised not to) and nothing would work for them.

Since the updates are irreversible, it created a lot of problems and extra work.
[doublepost=1491512228][/doublepost]

If the company also relied on poorly written Windows apps that crashed every time there was an OS update, you'd have the same problem. Seems to me the issue is relying on crap custom software.
 
The problem is, Most people who build their own comptuers likely don't pay attention to this and just leave it on the default, which I believe for some explicable reason is still BIOS boot.

Further reading if you actually care to learn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface

The vast majority of user want a computer they can just turn on and use without having to go learn how to do a bunch of customizations and tweaking to get performance. The more complicated the use the less likely to be adopted by the end user. Take Linux for example. Why hasn't it taken off? It's free, you can bring your own hardware, it's super fast, secure, and stable. Oh, that's right, it's a PITA and frustrating to work with when first learning. Forget if an update comes in and breaks something else. Oh I have to learn code to do something that on this OS over here gives me a nice GUI to do it? Why go through that mess and just buy something someone can plug in, start and go with?
 
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I have a surface 3 , like the full blown surfaces, it's great in a laptop situation. But the Tablet usability is gimped by a lack of tablet apps, and the unwieldlyness of using web apps with a touch interface
 
Since when is the Surface a tablet? Does anyone ever use it without a keyboard attached or in portrait mode? All this tells me is people think a laptop running a desktop OS is more versatile than a tablet. That should be shocking to no one.
Yes, I do. I would say when I an consuming content, e.g browsing, Prime...Netflix etc, almost exclusively as a tablet and then I am producing or gaming, e.g Office, Visio, etc..then with Keyboard & Mouse. If I'm flying tablet, in hotel keyboard....at least you have the choice. It's not the best tablet and it's not the best laptop...but is the best that can be both.
 
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If the company also relied on poorly written Windows apps that crashed every time there was an OS update, you'd have the same problem. Seems to me the issue is relying on crap custom software.

BETA iOS is available months before release. The app vendor is at fault for not maintaining their applications.
 
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The surface form factor is pretty perfect for what apple is trying to do with the Ipad pro. Use all 3 operating systems on a weekly basis but I really feel apple could nail that form factor if they adopted it. The surface is like an 8/10 for me but Apple could make it a 10/10 with their hardware design and ecosystem.
 
If the company also relied on poorly written Windows apps that crashed every time there was an OS update, you'd have the same problem. Seems to me the issue is relying on crap custom software.

Sure, but it was still Apple's hardline on iOS updates that caused problems/headaches for them.

And there was some (unrelated) Windows software that updates could break, hence each update went into testing. The difference is any individual update could be uninstalled if someone accidentally applied it. No big deal.
 
Actually, I wish I could marry the iPad Pro 12" with the Surface Pro 4. I have both. As a Tablet the Pro is not as nice as the iPad. Even as a laptop it has the usual Windows issues. I have multiple issues with the Surface Pro 4. Windows Explorer crashes all the time even after clean install. This seems to have something to do with quick view and you need to turn off a bunch of features as a work around. Typical MS bs that they usually blamed on third parties in the past but now this is their hardware. If I load the new MS office I can't print with it since it crashes so I use the later version and lose some new features. I have it hooked up to two external monitors. After it goes to sleep it loses them so I have to disconnect the MS Dock and reconnected. Then I have to rearrange all my windows back to them. It keeps loosing the connection to the MS wireless keyboard for no reason.

The Problems with the iPad Pro. No file system or easy way to access work network files. The pencil dies to quickly, I think I only replaced the battery in my Surface Pen once in the year and a half that I have had it. MS office doesn't have all the fonts on it, so it screws up word docs if font is missing. There are work around but this only help a little and are a pain.

From using the Surface Pro I can see why Apple says they are not making a touchscreen Mac. Don't know what the cost would be to add touch screen to a Mac. I really only use touch to scroll on my Surface and pinch zoom.

What would be nice if they could but a true 2 in 1 system. Something that runs IOS and MAC OS on the same system.

I have none of those problems with my Surface Pro 4.
 
A place I know started switching away from iPhones because the apps they used were apparently really prone to bugs following iOS updates, and each time an iOS update came out, a bunch of people would update (despite being advised not to) and nothing would work for them.

Since the updates are irreversible, it created a lot of problems and extra work.
[doublepost=1491512228][/doublepost]

It's similar to cutting the fuel on a rocket... it will continue to climb for a while, but once it starts coming down, it will be difficult to regain control.

Which phones did they switch to? I can't imagine wanting to run a business using android phones and the security nightmare that they would bring.

And in the end, it sounds like relying on some poor quality app is what caused the issue.
[doublepost=1491513009][/doublepost]
Who chose the hospital's EMR software? Do they offer a Mac client app with feature parity to their Windows app?

Some specialized software isn't made for Mac, so if your job requires such software, that's artificially limiting your choice of computer.

In our situation the same EMR software is available on both Mac and Windows, as it's based on Java *Shudders once again*.

Significant majority of physicians (out of hundreds) chose Macs in their clinics.
 
Hmmm... let's see a laptop with a desktop OS vs. a tablet with a mobile OS. Not surprising, but it took 6 years to surpass Apple?
 
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Which phones did they switch to? I can't imagine wanting to run a business using android phones and the security nightmare that they would bring.

And in the end, it sounds like relying on some poor quality app is what caused the issue.

It is because of poor apps, but there wasn't much they could do about it.

And I don't know what they ended up switching to after months of deliberation.
 
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The vast majority of user want a computer they can just turn on and use without having to go learn how to do a bunch of customizations and tweaking to get performance. The more complicated the use the less likely to be adopted by the end user. Take Linux for example. Why hasn't it taken off? It's free, you can bring your own hardware, it's super fast, secure, and stable. Oh, that's right, it's a PITA and frustrating to work with when first learning. Forget if an update comes in and breaks something else. Oh I have to learn code to do something that on this OS over here gives me a nice GUI to do it? Why go through that mess and just buy something someone can plug in, start and go with?

Oh I don't disagree, The fact that BIOS manufacturers and even system builders are still using BIOS instead of EFI is stupid. (U)efi should be the standard and norm right now. Not some option userse have to turn on
[doublepost=1491514116][/doublepost]
*inexplicable

And in defense of people who build their own stuff, don't a lot of cheaper mobos still require BIOS functionality or simply don't support EFI? I'm not having much luck finding where I remember seeing that, so I'm doubting my own memory...
MOST motherboards now support EFI, I think Intel finally mandated it be included, even if not mandatory on.
 
MOST motherboards now support EFI, I think Intel finally mandated it be included, even if not mandatory on.
Hmm, fair enough. It's been since... early Haswell days, I think, that I last built a PC, and it makes sense it's become mandatory since then.
[doublepost=1491515211][/doublepost]
Yes, I do. I would say when I an consuming content, e.g browsing, Prime...Netflix etc, almost exclusively as a tablet and then I am producing or gaming, e.g Office, Visio, etc..then with Keyboard & Mouse. If I'm flying tablet, in hotel keyboard....at least you have the choice. It's not the best tablet and it's not the best laptop...but is the best that can be both.
And for people on the go that are about 50/50 on each, it's probably the device they should pick.
 
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It is nice to run a full desktop but it doesn't work right switching between desktop and tablet modes. Also it slows down horribly over time as Windows tends to do as it gets more and more bloated. Some models have really noisy fans that turn on. The iPad pro does not have a fan. I was in a meeting with someone who was using one and the fan turned on. It was difficult to hear in the meeting from time to time because of the fan. It was a serious distraction.
serious bs
 
At the end of the day it's about software. If you can do a lot more, it will come across as a better-built product. Both are solid machines, but one is just able to do more as a work machine. iPad Pro is more of a companion to a MBP than a laptop replacement.
The one place where Surface comes out ahead is if you need both touchscreen input and full desktop, you only need to carry around one thing, whereas MBP + iPP is 2 things.
 
its about the trackpad.
the Microsoft Surface has the trackpad. the iPad does not.
Phil Schiller is correct: i don't want to move my fingers through the air to touch a screen to constantely position the cursor into an input location in a spreadsheet, or a document.
i want a touchscreen iPad pro that has a attachable keyboard that has a built in trackpad.
without the trackpad the iPad will never be able to be a fully business use replacement for document creation.
thats where the Microsoft Surface is attractive. in those kinds of environments - not design or photo environments.
Pages, Numbers, and Keynote are fine as iOS apps for most users. they just need a trackpad.
 
The surface form factor is pretty perfect for what apple is trying to do with the Ipad pro. Use all 3 operating systems on a weekly basis but I really feel apple could nail that form factor if they adopted it. The surface is like an 8/10 for me but Apple could make it a 10/10 with their hardware design and ecosystem.
totally agree. apple has all the pieces to perfect the hybrid. Surface could go up to 9/10 if MS could fix login, power and win update issues.
 
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its about the trackpad.
the Microsoft Surface has the trackpad. the iPad does not.
Phil Schiller is correct: i don't want to move my fingers through the air to touch a screen to constantely position the cursor into an input location in a spreadsheet, or a document.
i want a touchscreen iPad pro that has a attachable keyboard that has a built in trackpad.
without the trackpad the iPad will never be able to be a fully business use replacement for document creation.
thats where the Microsoft Surface is attractive. in those kinds of environments - not design or photo environments.
Pages, Numbers, and Keynote are fine as iOS apps for most users. they just need a trackpad.
The fact that they built trackpad-like functionality into the software keyboard for iPads was a huge improvement for my needs. If they were to put a trackpad-like surface on an attachable keyboard that simply mimics that same functionality, I'd be all over that. I wonder if a 3rd-party manufacturer could manage that, somehow...
 
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