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Well, first of all you're trying to build an analogy where one doesn't really exist.

But I'll bite a little. First, understand that I moved from Windows to Apple in 2008, and I am now all in. Honestly, there was nothing compelling to me on the Mac side, even after OS X was shipped until Leopard. Before that I was unimpressed and uninspired by OS X.

But the difference here is that Apple brought a new, compelling and fun product to the market in the iPod. It got peoples' attention, and started to pull back the curtain to a lot of dyed in the wool Windows users who had never even considered Apple products. It showed them that perhaps computing and electronics didn't need to be kludgy and stoic.

Along comes Leopard, at just about the perfect time. People who are now starting to flock to the Apple stores because of the iPod are seeing how cool and easy computers can really be.

Then comes iPhone, and wow! The momentum builds.

A couple of years later, iPad. Each of these products pivots off of the others.

Now, let's look at the Surface. Aside from all of the technical downsides of it, and Microsoft's insistence on force feeding its large customer base a whole new UI experience on the familiar desktop that they've been using for 20 years, the reaction of the user is, "Well, I can get this "familiar" OS tablet (that's not really so familiar after all, since MS insisted on making everything so "revolutionarily different"). Ho-hum.

Or I can keep using this intuitive, fun, easy-to-use, stable, quality built tablet that is as familiar as all of the other devices I've come to love (as opposed to tolerate)."

That's why MS went so far out of their way to try to portray the Surface in their commercials as this hip, fun, happening tablet, when in fact the biggest selling point for it was that it was supposed to be the best of both worlds: A tablet like MS should have produced ten years ago, melded with the familiar, no-nonsense, "get my work done" ecosystem of MS. Problem was, it (especially the RT) was really none of those things. It wasn't cool. It wasn't familiar. And it wasn't a no nonsense business machine. By the time the Pro came out people had pretty much tuned out.

Their advertising? It was just lipstick on a pig.

So yes, the Surface is %$#*.

I'll take that opinion with a pinch of salt given your computing requirements/switch are based on a MP3 player and its ecosystem ;)

In that case, using windows must have been hell!!!!
 
Pretty much that. The only reason you'd want Windows on a tablet is native MS office. And there's no metro version of it.


And they wonder why it tanked?

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That's been going on in general with Windows since v1.0

They did a tablet version of XP. It was crap too.

MS should just cut their losses and port office to iOS. That's what most people actually want WINDOWS for, not because it's windows so much. And office has always been the cash cow.

Also: they should work with Apple to enable Active Directory join of iPads to the corporate domain, along with some better MDM tools. That's the other thing corps want from a tablet that Windows could offer (which they REMOVED in the RT version)...

Office is marginalized more and more everyday as people start getting a clue and realizing that 90% of Office's robust functionality is not needed. The core abilities is what is wanted, which allows Google Drive, and soon iWork for iCloud, to act as a highly disruptive alternatives which weakens Office's ability to be a white knight.

I've been using Google docs/Google Drive since 2011, iWork and now iWork for iCloud beta, and will not be purchasing Office for my Mac or iOS devices. Its just not needed, and not worth the price.

I got a Chromebook for my wife and she manages the house budget in Google drive spreadsheets, sends emails, drafts documents all in Google Drive all on a device for $199.
 
It's the wrong brand. That's the real problem. At this point, Apple really doesn't have to worry about the competition because the Apple logo at this point is all it takes. What a great place to be.
 
Umm... These numbers include x86/x64 Windows on the MS tablet.

To me, the real problem is the legacy, non-touch support that discourages the development of tablet optimized apps. We've had more than a decade of Windows tablets with legacy support as evidence that this strategy does not work.

I wouldn't put much stock in past windows tablets, especially if you have any experience using them. They were awful, thick as a laptop, heavier than a laptop, poor battery life, and much as people say its a negative we didn't have Metro back then. No, windows tablets failed because the hardware wasn't ready yet, and to a lesser extent the software.

Legacy programs are still VERY important to some users, but I agree, they need to be developed away from the old desktop paradigm. I use a lot of programs though which are not being developed on anymore, and I'd be hard pressed to function without them. The sheer amount of legacy programs is staggering. I've always thought Microsoft should streamline the desktop in some kind of way to be backwards compatible with legacy programs, even simple stuff like larger taskbars, menus, etc which maybe could be a UI scaling universal change that old legacy programs would automatically do without any developer changes. The desktop is NOT the future, but many of us need to hold onto it a bit longer until the developers catch up. Sure MS can rip the band aid off and just ditch the desktop, forcing developers to write "apps", but they would hemorrhage money while doing it until they caught up.
 
Has anyone hacked a real OS onto the Surface?

I thought about doing a Hackintosh, I have a desktop PC that I run a Hackintosh OS on and it works very nicely, although I really only use it for iphoto and making albums for my wife. It would be pretty swank to swap back and forth between win8 and OSx.
 
Android phone sales were lackluster in their first year against the iPhone. Android tablet sales were lackluster in their first year against the iPad.

Both are doing just fine today... you can't judge long term viability in an established market by how well a company competes in the first year.

Not sure if you can compare the two. Windows 8 is pretty pollished and the Android phones and tablets that came out to challenge the iPad and iPhone were crap. Early Android itself was buggy and had lag. Manufacturers were just spewing out Android devices without consideration of quality. The problem is RT vs. Pro on tablets. MS should have just left it at Pro and not bothered with RT (leaving RT to the phones) They should have sold the Pro version at the RT prices and marketed that as the Android/iOS competitor.
 
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Office is marginalized more and more everyday as people start getting a clue and realizing that 90% of Office's robust functionality is not needed. The core abilities is what is wanted, which allows Google Drive, and soon iWork for iCloud, to act as a highly disruptive alternatives which weakens Office's ability to be a white knight.

I've been using Google docs/Google Drive since 2011, iWork and now iWork for iCloud beta, and will not be purchasing Office for my Mac or iOS devices. Its just not needed, and not worth the price.

I got a Chromebook for my wife and she manages the house budget in Google drive spreadsheets, sends emails, drafts documents all in Google Drive all on a device for $199.

Office 2013 has actually made some nice changes which make it pretty touch friendly. They also have made it very cloud friendly, my entire windows tablet is cloud friendly and integrates nicely with Skydrive, which has grown to be a phenomenal product.

Pricing is Office's issue, especially when you see free stuff out there that works nicely as you mention. Still, $99/year for 5 licenses is pretty good IMO. I got Office 2013 free with my tablet though.
 
How would you use Office without a keyboard?

Exactly the point. I wouldn't use Office.

I don't want to use Office on a tablet or any other mainstream type of WP.

I want to take notes. Sure. I want to text. I want to email.

But I do not want to write elongated, professionally made up documents or spreadsheets on my iPad. I have no interest in doing as such.

I just want my tablet to slot in between by laptop and desktop.

I'm all for attaching keyboards to tablets. It's a good idea but never ever should be the main feature. Ever.
 
Exactly the point. I wouldn't use Office.

I don't want to use Office on a tablet or any other mainstream type of WP.

I want to take notes. Sure. I want to text. I want to email.

But I do not want to write elongated, professionally made up documents or spreadsheets on my iPad. I have no interest in doing as such.

I just want my tablet to slot in between by laptop and desktop.

I'm all for attaching keyboards to tablets. It's a good idea but never ever should be the main feature. Ever.

Some of us do want to write long documents on a tablet. I regularly write long encounter reports on my tablet, I must type out at least 70+ pages per day of what starts out as handwritten notes which are converted to text, and later edited and uploaded to my billing company.

I think the point is that a windows tablet can replace a laptop, where an ipad cannot, at least not anywhere near as efficiently. While there is nothing wrong if you want an ipad AND a laptop, you have to understand that some consumers want a single device. Personally I think the keyboard on the surface was pretty awesome and a great idea, something extremely useful in day to day life for me.
 
This whole un-tablet concept was wonky to begin with.

The Surface is a lot of unfocused compromise which is gimping an otherwise good product.

Then again Tim Cook predicted what would happen to the Surface long before it launched:

"You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but you know those things are not going to be pleasing to the user"

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They need to do a Touchpad-like firesale on them. I'll buy one for $200

I'd be all over it and I have a Microsoft store around the corner from me so I'd be first in line.
 
There it is. The m-word. Monopoly. Maybe that's Microsoft's fatal weakness.
They've had a near-monopoly on legacy desktop computing for too long.
They've forgotten how to compete. And they've lost touch with consumers.

Quite a good point, I think.

Sooner or later, every 'top dog' falls. And the more transitions the industry goes through, the less relevance Microsoft's desktop dominance has to the current (more mobile) trends.

Apple succeeded in the tablet market not because they were first (they weren't), but because they launched a focused solution, designed from the start for mobile/touch use; while Microsoft was still trying to extend their Windows dominance onto the mobile market.

Apple's time will pass too, but they've done a superb job so far in adapting and staying current.
 
Work gave me a surface pro. Gotta say it does more than my iPad. My iPad is great for fart apps and such. Some things the iPad does better... Still don't know if I would have paid the $1,000 price for it though...

I've used a Surface Pro at work, gotta say it's great for blue screens, manually editing registry keys, and running malware scanners :rolleyes:
 
That's not to shabby MS :p
Now only if you do not COMPARE that with the iPad sales.

Lol, you think the iPad is dominating the market.

Btw, I actually do own a Surface Pro and it is pretty nice. I suspect the Surface refresh coming this fall put it where I want with 8.1 windows. Which is also a very nice OS that improves windows 8 very nicely.

The thing really that held back the surface was
Intel **** battery life but that isn't true anymore when they refresh.
 
I've used a Surface Pro at work, gotta say it's great for blue screens, manually editing registry keys, and running malware scanners :rolleyes:

Wow, blue screens?

What the heck are you doing these days that you get blue screens on a modern device? And why are you manually editing registry keys? The malware scanner kind if makes sense, I guess, but the other two just seem to be taken out of "troll Microsoft products 101".
 
Some of us do want to write long documents on a tablet. I regularly write long encounter reports on my tablet, I must type out at least 70+ pages per day of what starts out as handwritten notes which are converted to text, and later edited and uploaded to my billing company.

I think the point is that a windows tablet can replace a laptop, where an ipad cannot, at least not anywhere near as efficiently. While there is nothing wrong if you want an ipad AND a laptop, you have to understand that some consumers want a single device. Personally I think the keyboard on the surface was pretty awesome and a great idea, something extremely useful in day to day life for me.

Completely understand and respect your position. You are one of very few. 70+ pages per day is not standard.

My point being I don't want my iPad to replace a laptop. I don't want it to be a laptop.

I have a laptop. It's sits on the desk. Worked issued.

Recently I went looking for an apartment in a major US city. The broker turned up to meet me in Starbucks with iPad in hand. She went through some photos of prospectives abodes in the photo app. I choose what I liked. She proceeded to go through her list of availabilities and crossed off what wasn't going to work. The remaining list had google maps link. We then went to each building with ease and she made a notation based in a set criteria for each apartment we saw.

By days end we went back to Starbucks and went through the list on her iPad and drilled it down to 3 places and decoded on one. She closed the deal and I signed up.

In this context iPad or any other tablet kills laptops or anything else. It was just so easy for her and me.

Completely understand why you need a keyboard. You type 70 pages a day. But that's not the norm.

There's a whole world out there who just need the access to some very simple functions to make their jobs and lives so much more easier.

In reality you just need a laptop. Period.
 
Wow, blue screens?

What the heck are you doing these days that you get blue screens on a modern device? And why are you manually editing registry keys? The malware scanner kind if makes sense, I guess, but the other two just seem to be taken out of "troll Microsoft products 101".

He is full of crap. I have gotten one BSD that was patched out and rare. Otherwise my surface runs for a month or more till when a security update forces me.
 
I've used a Surface Pro at work, gotta say it's great for blue screens, manually editing registry keys, and running malware scanners :rolleyes:

Are you running Windows Me?

But you make a good point in MSFT should have ushered in a mobile OS that did away with the horrors of Windows and actually tries to be a real iOS competitor.

I live in a Windows/MSFT free house. That was inconceivable 3 years ago.
 
Double-down on stupid.

Ballmer has absolutely no idea why the 1st-gen Surface isn't selling, so making a 2nd-gen is just plain stupid. It's a dart thrown at a dartboard by a blindfolded drunk -- he'll be lucky to hit the wall, let alone the board.

Not that I'm complaining. As long as Ballmer is CEO, that's one less competitor for Apple.

How many years of being laughed at did it take for Apple to finally release a product that took off with blazing success?

People laughed at the original Xbox before and (for a time) after it came out. The second attempt then went on to be a blazing success despite outrageous and expensive hardware problems.
 
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