Microsoft to Relaunch Windows Slates Again at CES

[smiddlehurst]

Here's the thing, and I know this may not be a popular view around these parts, but I actually feel a bit sorry for Microsoft here. Wait, hear me out before you reach for the tar and feathers.

The monopoly they've built up in the PC space is largely based on business use. Oh sure, the majority of home PC's use Windows as well but it's still largely a business OS with a relatively steep learning curve and lots of bits and pieces home users simply don't need, not to mention a massive legacy support issue. Now that the world is shifting to a) consumer devices and b) cloud-based solutions that comfortable base they've enjoyed is starting to shake.

The problem is they're caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place here. If they launch, say, WP7 for tablets some bright spark is going to realise they don't actually need W7 for home use (except maybe as a single machine somewhere to store backups, media etc). As MS can't possibly charge as much for WP7 as they do for W7 (the joys of competition) then they start to loose their cash cow. On the flip side if they keep trying to shoehorn full-blown Windows onto tablets (and make no mistake, tablet-like OS's will make their way onto laptops and desktops too in the future) then they're going to increasingly find people questioning why they should go that route when it's vastly cheaper and easier to go with an Android or iOS device and the market starts to shrink anyway.

It's a tricky one to get out of, about the only way I can think of really is for MS to bite the bullet, focus Windows development on the business sector and build a whole new consumer OS not just for tablets but for ANY form factor device. Try to take the lead in the market and use their massive base of developers and a huge war chest to establish themselves in a market that's only just starting. Sadly I suspect there's too much risk involved in that stratergy and they won't do it prefering instead to get W8 running on every device regardless of its suitability.

 

[Wuddel]

They should have continued with the Courier. That would have blown the iPad out of the water.

 

[NebulaClash]

Microsoft to Relaunch Windows Slates Again at CES

Now let me see, what's that definition of insanity again? . . .

 

[misfit356tsw]

Please Microsoft don't try to stuff a full version of Windows 7 on a slate. It doesn't work and you don't need to keep banging your head against that wall. With that being said, I say the more the merrier. Competition is good.

 

[alent1234]

I can't fathom a tablet device running W7. A modified, mobile version of it, MAYBE. And they'd really have to bring some amazing things to the table, along with unbeatable price points. Contrary to that, W7 tablets might meet the same success Zune has met.

Windows 7 only takes 20GB on some systems because of the huge driver database. and MS starts a lot of services by default that eats up resources.

iOS is even recognized as OS X 10.5 by some security apps because it's nothing more than OS X stripped down and with a different GUI. otherwise it's not like Apple reinvented the wheel and wrote a new OS from scratch

financially Wintel is screwed in the tablet market. a $500 PC will have at least $200 go to Wintel. a $500 tablet, a lot less.

 

[cocky jeremy]

They should have continued with the Courier. That would have blown the iPad out of the water.

I'm thinking, and hoping, this is sarcasm?

 

[L-U-R-C-H]

"Mac" Rumors...

 

[smiddlehurst]

Not that I don't believe you but where there any examples here? Just curious to see what these needs are that require a Windows tablet and would not work with either an iPad or Android tablet.

Vertical markets where you need to integrate bespoke applications with an existing infastructure. I've done several such deployments (usually either sales, marketing or stock control based) and, sorry, iOS and Android aren't good options for that just yet. But markets like that aren't that common and most of 'em have either a) already got a solution or b) looked at the costs and figured it's not worth it.

Just to chuck an example out (not actual, sorry but not really supposed to talk about actual projects): A company has an existing order and stock management system built on a SQL backend with a Windows application for data entry, reporting etc. In order to improve efficiency they roll out tablet PC's with wireless access to their warehouse staff that allows them to directly receive orders and mark up fulfilment rather than receiving printed orders and updating stock levels at the end of the process. To facilitate this each item has a barcode and this barcode is scanned to complete the stock management process.

That's not a system that lends itself to iOS or Android because a) it uses existing bespoke software, b) there's a need for an aftermarket part in terms of a barcode reader (granted you could use the camera but that's a bit clunky and a pain in dark conditions) and c) there will, potentially, be other systems within the business that can be utilised by the warehouse workforce. You also save on supporting a seperate platform and it's relatively easy to find rugged hardware suitable for the working conditions.

 

[shiseiryu1]

I agree

iWork does not compare to Microsoft Office.

But, I'm not sure how usable Microsoft Office would be on a slate device. I had a slate tablet a few years ago from Motion Computing (although it was not touch-screen based). Productivity apps were not exactly productive in that form-factor.

At the same time, I don't find productivity apps on the iPad all that usable either.

I'd be more curious at the battery life, from my experience, Windows 7 is not friend of battery power unless you turn off Aero.

I don't use my iPad for productivity and when I have I found myself wishing for a laptop. I think Apple found the right niche for the tablet...M$ thinks that there is a huge latent market for people who want productivity on a tablet...I think they're sadly mistaken. Anybody who has had to type a while on a tablet will tell you if you're going to be doing a lot of typing and manipulating that a laptop is simply a better option.

It will be nice to see what M$ unveils though...however I think whatever they do is going to look clunky next to the upcoming iPad2.

 

[georgee2face]

I can't fathom a tablet device running W7. A modified, mobile version of it, MAYBE. And they'd really have to bring some amazing things to the table, along with unbeatable price points. Contrary to that, W7 tablets might meet the same success Zune has met.

no native printing, no need to switch. native printing is the one thing I really miss in the Ipad. everything else is quick, inutitive, and fits both my business and social needs
G

 

[Mister Snitch]

I can't fathom a tablet device running W7. A modified, mobile version of it, MAYBE. And they'd really have to bring some amazing things to the table, along with unbeatable price points. Contrary to that, W7 tablets might meet the same success Zune has met.

"Zune" should enter the lexicon as a word meaning "a copycat that claims to overtake the original, but fails and vanishes completely".

In usage:

"Whatever happened to that Windows Tablet?"
"Dude. They got Zuned."

 

[blackpond]

How about the Canadian Pizza Hut site?

Go ahead, try it. Try logging in.

Though I agree no Flash on iOS is troublesome at times, at this point in time you should be complaining to Pizza Hut, not Apple, about lack of support on the iPad.

 

[iSee]

“The company believes there is a huge market for business people who want to enjoy a slate for reading newspapers and magazines and then work on Microsoft Word, Excel or PowerPoint while doing work,” explained a person familiar with the company’s tablet plans.

I'd personally love it if MS could pull this off...
But I have no confidence that they will.

They've really got to figure out how to take the lead on some of this stuff. If all you do as a company is look at what Apple is doing and crudely mimic it, you're doomed to be #2... or worse.

A full-fledged OS that nevertheless has a great touch UI would be great, IMO. Probably Apple would be able to do it before MS. (... and Apple probably has it scheduled for the fall of hell freezing over.)

 

[JakeBarnes12]

Finally somebody with a brain. You get sick of all these people going 'hurf durf micro$oft' that you just start looking for a valid post. Took half a page to find it.

Frankly iWork is a joke compared to Office. Mobile Office on my WP7 compares with iWork on the iPad. Phone, tablet. Personally, following how evidently hard they've been working on WP7 can't wait to see what they do for the tablet form factor. I can only hope it won't be just regular Windows 7 running in tablet mode because that is made for stylus input, not fingers, and certainly not multi-touch. But even if it's running Windows, it will be in all ways more useful than the iPad. Many times have I been surfing the internet to find a video that won't load or a site that features non-loading menus. Why? Because Steve doesn't like flash. I used to be all apologetic about it. "Pff, it will ruin battery life, it will be slow, it will be non-secure." So what about Frash? It was never slow, it didn't ruin the battery life, and it sure as hell didn't introduce viruses or the like to iPads. But it worked. That's what they need to do on the iPad before anyone could even think about considering it as useful, even as a mere content consumption device. I love my iPad but its uselessness is just overwhelming when it comes to actual productivity, and its flashlessness has me doing a ton of extra steps to get the content working. Instead of having no flash, why not have toggle-able flash? Why not give users the choice? It used to be all Apple was about, so why did they stop? Did they get mad with power? They can't call themselves masters of UI and UE when they can't deliver on something so necessary and mainstream.

"Almost all videos on the web are available to the iPad through HTML5 or other formats," says Jobs. So what about the ones that aren't? And what about menus? What happens if I want to go to Domino's site and order pizza? Why should I have to go to my room and get my laptop and do it from there? The entire point was that the iPad was supposed to be an excellent window to the web and one that requires minimal effort to get working properly. In my opinion, it's a rather subpar window when the browser doesn't have the tools to view it properly.

This tablet they will introduce will run and support Flash, and will run full Office, Firefox, and the millions of applications out there that run on Windows 7 will run on it. So you tell me which is the better window.

So, somebody agrees with your pro-MS position, and this shows they have a brain?

Let's cut through the BS. MS has had 10 years to have a success with their tablet devices and they have failed. For a reason. Poor hardware design (blame their "partners,") poor interface (blame MS).

You can Rove as much as you want, but you can't alter the fact MS has fallen way behind in the mobile space and shows little sign of catching up, which is apparent to all but rabid fanboys like yourself.

Enjoy your Windows Phone 7. I prefer cutting edge tech.

 

[notabadname]

Looks like an iPad image behind him at CES.

And for those who say "finally, a tablet for us "Professionals", give it a rest. I own and use both iWork and Office. To have a preference of either program is completely understandable, but to say you can't create a certain document on iWork is laughable. I find it hard to conceive of the unique and odd document that you can only make in Office and not in iWork. I would venture a guess that the overlap of the two product's output capability would be near 99%.

And as previously mentioned, if your real gripe is about "flash", then I would say your concerns aren't so heavily weighted to professional use, unless your profession is to review annoying and intrusive insurance and mortgage adds.

 

[NAG]

Vertical markets where you need to integrate bespoke applications with an existing infastructure. I've done several such deployments (usually either sales, marketing or stock control based) and, sorry, iOS and Android aren't good options for that just yet. But markets like that aren't that common and most of 'em have either a) already got a solution or b) looked at the costs and figured it's not worth it.

Just to chuck an example out (not actual, sorry but not really supposed to talk about actual projects): A company has an existing order and stock management system built on a SQL backend with a Windows application for data entry, reporting etc. In order to improve efficiency they roll out tablet PC's with wireless access to their warehouse staff that allows them to directly receive orders and mark up fulfilment rather than receiving printed orders and updating stock levels at the end of the process. To facilitate this each item has a barcode and this barcode is scanned to complete the stock management process.

That's not a system that lends itself to iOS or Android because a) it uses existing bespoke software, b) there's a need for an aftermarket part in terms of a barcode reader (granted you could use the camera but that's a bit clunky and a pain in dark conditions) and c) there will, potentially, be other systems within the business that can be utilised by the warehouse workforce. You also save on supporting a seperate platform and it's relatively easy to find rugged hardware suitable for the working conditions.

You really should have said that then your first post. You obviously understand that the tablet OS devices can do these things it would just take money and potentially reworking some infrastructure. Your first statement made it seem like they were physically incapable of meeting some requirements when it is really a cost/benefit analysis to see if they'll save more money than they spend to switch to a new system (and unless Microsoft can somehow make Windows 7 actually usable on a tablet they'll probably have to switch eventually...I'm talking years here btw not months).

As far as Courier. Yeah, Microsoft totally seemed to have Apple owned! But then they found out Apple was working on iVapor that was totally more awesome than Courier so they killed it and started working on Kin 2.

 

[teme]

I like Windows 7 on my laptop, but Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that tablets are not suitable for the same OS than normal laptops and desktops. Windows Phone 7 OS is also quite good, and I think that Microsoft should definitely concentrate on developing that OS for a larger screen, and I really don't understand why they are not doing that.

 

[res1233]

microsoft wouldn't have fallen so much. More people would have been buying microsoft instead of apple.




Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? That is baiting yourself.

Microsoft bought the computer to the masses. Apple didn't create the market, in fact, people flocked to alternative 8 / 16bit home computers, and later window PCs. Apple computers were too expensive for the average joe and no one really cared about Apple until recently. OSX was certainly a turning point.

Sure Apple created some markets, but to say " In just about all the markets Microsoft is in, the market was created by Apple" is pure fanboyism.

The Anti-virus software market is doing very well, without Apple's intervention.... ;-)

Did i SAY anyone who disagrees with me is a troll? I think the real problem is your jumping to conclusions. I merely said that to clarify what i was intending to say so that "trolls" don't bash me for being inaccurate, which i was, slightly.

EDIT: Plus, you clearly didn't read my clarification, go troll elsewhere.

 

[zim]

Which part of it?

I have been a power user of MS Office since the days of Windows 3.1, and I have been using Word even when it was a text-based application (and, BTW, the best text processor available then).

At the moment I have both iWork and MS Office 2011 in my Mac and Office 2010 running on Win7 on my desktop. So, I have the opportunity to compare the two. And here is what I've found:

Word vs. Pages:

• If you want to create a long document with a lot of cross-references and illustrations (book, academic thesis, instruction manual), go look somewhere else. Word has still the tendency of corrupting the files once they get complicated enough. Pages does not really offer the necessary facilities for such work.
  
• If you want to write a quick business document, both will do. Word is better in terms of universal compatibility, as most of the people still send .docx's around (most of the time the reason is beyond my comprehension).
  
• If you want to make something good-looking, you are faster and better done with Pages. While Pages is not exactly a DTP program, it has some quite nice features to that direction.

I use both, and I need both.


Excel vs. Numbers

Excel blows Numbers out of water. Unfortunately the rate of development of Excel has been extremely slow, it has most of the deficiences it had in the 97 version (limitations in two-dimensional graphs, only a small number of points allowed in a graph, bad interpretation of date data, etc.) Numbers is fine for making a quick good-looking pie or bar diagram, but not much more.


Keynote vs. PowerPoint

Keynote is better for making good-looking presentations. PowerPoint is engineerish in some ways, and while the difference between the two is not that big, Keynote is better. A lot of things I do with my Keynote are not doable in PowerPoint. On the other hand, there are some things which PP can do (such as 3D arrows and boxes) better than Keynote, but still I find Keynote a better companion on the road (especially with iPad as a remote control).

So, I find it difficult to call iWorks a joke. I use both, and if Numbers got up to speed with Excel, I'd happily abandon Office.

However... On the tablet format... Serious work? No. And this has nothing to do with operating systems or companies. Keyboard is a superior way of inputting large amounts of text, and a 10" display is ridiculously small for many tasks.

Great comparison... I agree 100%!

 

[Jarbo]

"Productivity Focused" = Entrenched in the MS corporate IT stack.

 

[eldernorm]

Trolling are we??

Finally somebody with a brain. ....

This tablet they will introduce will run and support Flash, and will run full Office, Firefox, and the millions of applications out there that run on Windows 7 will run on it. So you tell me which is the better window.

This post says it all. "This tablet they will introduce will run and support Flash and will... will... will... " Yep, eventually, maybe, someday... Microsoft will actually do it.

Last year the said it WILL be coming out... Now we have the new and improved... it WILL be coming out.

Microsoft..... someday.... over the rainbow..... when skys are azure....

Just a thought,
en

PS.. Azure... Microsofts name for their cloud.... Azure.. the color of a cloudless sky. Just saying...

 

[andiwm2003]

May I point out that during the rumor phase of the iPad, most people on this very forum were adamant that it run a fully capable OS X with a touch UI?

OneNote and a stylus. I'd buy one.

i'd happily give up my iPad if there was a tablet with a at least halfway decent desktop OS and a stylus so that I can simply upload a file to it and edit this file with a couple of simple programs.

Right now there is NO way to upload a file from my work computer to my iPad and edit that file. Simply not possible.

 

[NAG]

Great comparison... I agree 100%!

One thing he left out regarding iWork on the iPad is that Numbers is ridiculously slow on it. It does not take much for Numbers to slow down to the point of becoming unusable (not one of these super mega spreadsheets but probably something in the range of three times the size of the soccer team roster example they love to use would do it).

Pages on the iPad is okay. Not great, but okay. Honestly, I wish BBEdit would come out for the iPad instead, though.

But otherwise, good comparison of the weaknesses of both iWork and Office.

 

[Stella]

Did i SAY anyone who disagrees with me is a troll? I think the real problem is your jumping to conclusions. I merely said that to clarify what i was intending to say so that "trolls" don't bash me for being inaccurate, which i was, slightly.

EDIT: Plus, you clearly didn't read my clarification, go troll elsewhere.

OK, sorry, I misunderstood you. Is there any need for that tone. No.

Where's your clarification then because I didn't see it.

May I also point out that microsoft do a lot more work than just windows OS, media players, smartphones and office software.

Please point out my troll in my rely, for your convinence, I've pasted in below:
"Anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? That is baiting yourself.

Microsoft bought the computer to the masses. Apple didn't create the market, in fact, people flocked to alternative 8 / 16bit home computers, and later window PCs. Apple computers were too expensive for the average joe and no one really cared about Apple until recently. OSX was certainly a turning point.

Sure Apple created some markets, but to say " In just about all the markets Microsoft is in, the market was created by Apple" is pure fanboyism.

The Anti-virus software market is doing very well, without Apple's intervention.... ;-)"\

 

[drumcat]

Office for iPad

If they would focus on getting everyone using Microsoft formats on the iPad, they wouldn't be losing their grip on productivity. Instead, they want to own the OS. News Flash: the OS isn't as important as it has been. OSs aren't as complex; they're going backwards now. They are slimming. There's less of a market the smaller the device.

Microsoft, if you got your SOFTWARE on the iPad, then put your SOFTWARE on these other devices, then offered an OS with an integrated experience, you'd be winning customers. I DON'T WANT YOUR OS. Operating Systems are a BARRIER, not a feature.