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Microsoft's Latest Legal Tactic: Complaining About Apple's Font Size
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This case is about the phrase "App Store", not the single word. RIM's "App World" seems similar. Both rather generic but not as generic as "app" alone.
What worries me is that their employers are willing to pay them big bucks to do this.
I think Microsoft is in the right. When I issue instructions of formatting, and people do not follow them as a means of cheating the rules, I dock points. If Apple did this to get more content in, they should be forced to revise it.
Rules are rules.
Rules are rules.
I think it is funny some people making fun of this but I can tell they never had to deal with major stuff involving goverments. They require everything to be documents correctly and with in the rules. Break the rules and it gets rejected. Including forgetting to sign 1 things out of 50 pages. Some of the crap you have to do is insane.
It looks like Apple was trying to cheat the rules. Like someone else pointed out this is a huge shame on Apple. They could of filed to allowed for the brief to be extended and chances are it would of been but since they tried to cheat the rules that will not happen.
Also safe to say that all sides try to cheat the rules and regulation. Might work against smaller firms but when ti comes to big companies they sure as hell are going to catch it. More lawyers are going over it so more eyes to catch that something is off. Take font size and have it resized to correct font and things fall apart. You sure as hell know Apple would of called MS on this and I can promise you these boards would go from making fun of MS for calling Apple on it to insulting MS for trying to break the rules.
It looks like Apple was trying to cheat the rules. Like someone else pointed out this is a huge shame on Apple. They could of filed to allowed for the brief to be extended and chances are it would of been but since they tried to cheat the rules that will not happen.
Also safe to say that all sides try to cheat the rules and regulation. Might work against smaller firms but when ti comes to big companies they sure as hell are going to catch it. More lawyers are going over it so more eyes to catch that something is off. Take font size and have it resized to correct font and things fall apart. You sure as hell know Apple would of called MS on this and I can promise you these boards would go from making fun of MS for calling Apple on it to insulting MS for trying to break the rules.
Every big company has major attorney working for them and if they don't well then companies like Apple or MS come in and ram what ever they don't like down your throght. But don't worry we pay for all this with a hidden tax added to each purchase its not big but its there just for legal issues.
You seem to have accepted that Apple is in the wrong. But I suggest you should try not to parcel out wrongdoing so fast. As a lawyer I can tell you that court documents are quite often filed with table of contents and table of authorities. They do not count towards the page limit. I've looked at Apple's brief and it appears to be 25 pages. I've also converted the PDF to Word and it tells me that Apple used Times New Roman at 11 point font. so unless there was something wrong in the conversion, it appears to be fine. Most people don't file these sorts of complaints.
I haven't seen Apple's filing myself, but I take your point. I work with briefings myself, and document sizes are serious issues.
If the rules say 11 point and less than 25 pages, then submitting something 31 pages long and in less than 11 point is just taking the piss. If I did this with one of my submitted documents, I'd expect it to be rejected.
Busy people don't have unlimited time to read documents, and arguments need to be made with a certain degree of conciseness.
You're correct. My post was only meant to stop the naive claims we get in these threads that even the word "app" was somehow invented by Apple in relationship to mobile programs.
"App" is quite generic. It seems reasonable that "App Store" would be as well, along with "App Market" and so forth. OTOH, trademarking "Apple App Store" makes perfect sense to me. But IANAL
Cheers!
It is 2011, about time these things were filed digitally and then the recipients can change their own font size!
The issue, however, is not the font size int he end. Assuming, arguendo, that the font size was too small as per the rules, that means the brief was, in actuality, longer than it is when looking at it.
Also, most filings done electronically (at least in federal court) are in .pdf.
If it actually exceeds the page length requirements for the brief, then the filing will almost surely be invalidated. This is the kind of thing that "real" lawyers notice and judges really care about, particularly when parties as sophisticated as Microsoft and Apple are involved and their lawyers are billing over $300/hr for the most junior attorney on the case.
On the other hand, unless the PTO follows different rules, the Table of Contents and Table of Authorities do not count towards the page limit, as someone already mentioned above. So I suspect Apple hasn't actually violated the rule at all. And if that's the case, then in its response Apple should seek sanctions against Microsoft for a baseless motion.
They are filed digitally and have been for some time.
If you think this is childish, you have never been to court. Same rules would apply in a case between you and your neighbor. If your lawyer messed up the font, length of brief, or color paper, the judge may never consider it. Rules are there for a reason. Just follow them.
I agree, rules should be followed. Having a specific maximum length will help in keeping things concise and proceedings going as quickly & efficiently as possible.
However, I also believe rules shouldn't always be followed blindly. If the rules are doing more harm then good, we should look at changing or getting rid of them.
To reduce the page count without an undersized font I'd reduce the margins. Which makes a document harder to read than the original version with excess pages!
Yeah, that's what we lawyers ever do.
First, I bet those lawyers are billing at a rate much higher than $500/hour.
Second, lawyers as a whole hate wrangling over things like this.
Third, if the brief was outside of the rules, Apple should have filed a proper brief or asked for permission to file an oversized brief like everyone else does.
The Court system and the agencies such as the PTO have these rules for a reason. If they are not followed, the Court (or hearing officer or board) or opposing counsel calls you out on it.