Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Microsoft's Longhorn

I would think one could consider the Sony to be a quality machine (as windows machines go this is the best I have ever used at least). Well: It is affected by all the virii and adware because of its lousy operating system (windows xp).
Click to expand...

No. The operating system has nothing to do with 95% of the Adware and "Virii" (Which are most likely browser hijackers) that you speak of. That can all be attributed to Internet Explorer.

The second I switched to Firefox all of that went away. I hate internet explorer with a passion but just because it is a hole for adware etc. doesnt mean all of windows XP is.

I disagree this.... it is a fudamental security flaw of Microsoft's I.E. and Windows in general......all Windows machines are subject to it ...hardware you use is irrelevent.
Click to expand...

Yes I am sorry, I misstated (sp?) that. Although like i said before it is not a flaw in windows, just IE. I meant for it to be interpreted the way Mav451 read it-
Actually, I think he meant that people associate the problems of HARDWARE-related crashing to the OS (in mistake).
Click to expand...

These are things most system builders learn as "common knowledge"--and this is why I respect most system builders FAR more than those that don't--you simply learn A TON by doing it. It is simply hilarious when people blame the BSOD's or restarts on Windows XP, when their weak generic power supplies, clearance sticks of RAM, and poorly cooled OEM boxes are the cause for the troubles in the first place.
Click to expand...

That is exactly the point I am trying to get across. Many things people blame as faults of the os (Random re-boots, BSODing, crashes... etc) can actually all be attributed to the quality of the hardware that constitutes the machine.

But then OSX would have to support the same "freaking everything" various H/W(hardware) configurations that Windows goes through -_-.
Click to expand...

Exactly... you'd have people running OSX on machines with bargain bin sticks of ram etc and having it frequently crash.... they would then blame the poor performance on the OS.
 
Mav451 said:
But then OSX would have to support the same "freaking everything" various H/W(hardware) configurations that Windows goes through -_-.

They'd be giving up the very reason they have more stability (controlled H/W + S/W).
Click to expand...

That's what makes Windows Windows, and why it will never be challenged by OS X. The middleware, the customizability. Yes something needs to be done about IE and third parties breaking rules. MS dropping WHQL fees for one. But, hardcore gamers want tweaked drivers that just need to run whatevr FPS they're playing stably. So, you have a challenge. Give people what the platform needs, or give them what they want. Treading both is a tightwire and hard to do. But someone has to and Apple chose not to a looong time ago.

Middleware, customizability. Take a look at Longhorn concept videos. You'll see why it's taking so long. Why OS X is not much of a threat to the Windows market, and why many people think "they" are the ones on the superior platform.

All this leads to the conclusion that choice is good, and business is business.

edit: Mac users will probably find the Higher Education concept with McGraw Hill intriguing.
 
MorganX said:
edit: Mac users will probably find the Higher Education concept with McGraw Hill intriguing.
Click to expand...
Yes, and similar things were demostrated 2 years ago with Jaguar. Adobe demostrated, Illustrator or something, that would use the built in web services (XML + SOAP) to gather information from various sources on the net and fill in the information on a map of the united states, allowing dynamic creation of content without too much user intervention.

Though I agree that MS may be selling Indigo much better than various others are for J2EE on the desktop... which incidentally was designed to enable web-based applications, not tie them to the desktop...
 
MorganX said:
That's what makes Windows Windows, and why it will never be challenged by OS X. The middleware, the customizability. Yes something needs to be done about IE and third parties breaking rules. MS dropping WHQL fees for one. But, hardcore gamers want tweaked drivers that just need to run whatevr FPS they're playing stably. So, you have a challenge. Give people what the platform needs, or give them what they want. Treading both is a tightwire and hard to do. But someone has to and Apple chose not to a looong time ago.

Middleware, customizability. Take a look at Longhorn concept videos. You'll see why it's taking so long. Why OS X is not much of a threat to the Windows market, and why many people think "they" are the ones on the superior platform.

All this leads to the conclusion that choice is good, and business is business.

edit: Mac users will probably find the Higher Education concept with McGraw Hill intriguing.
Click to expand...

Wow. Great link...I honestly had no idea that this stuff was going on already. Funny how he calls himself an Longhorn evangelist in the videos...interesting choice of words I would say.
 
Here's my bottom dollar comparison between the Windows world and the Mac world.

If i used my old PC (WinXP) in the same why that i use my current Mac (10.3), it would be littered with spyware, adware, viruses, and who knows what else.

For me, its that sample - i don't care about the arguments pro/con either platforms. i don't care if its because of low market share or whatever... its a very simple formula for me. i use OSX, i have no headache at the end of the day.

if longhorn is a better OS than the future flavor of MacOS, then i'd switch in a heart beat. If it gives me less headache's at the end of the day, then i'd switch (though less headache's than zero would have to mean an overall stress-free and better computing experience)

i get work done on OSX, i get headaches on XP.

That is all it really comes down to for me, reliability. I want to be effecient when i am using my computer, time is money. There's nothing effecient about removing virii/spyware/adware... and further more there is nothing effecient about installing and maintaining applications that prevent such annoyances.

with my experience with microsoft products... i'm certainly not looking forward to longhorn.

with all of that said... time to get back to WORK on my Macintosh.
 
adamjay said:
If i used my old PC (WinXP) in the same why that i use my current Mac (10.3), it would be littered with spyware, adware, viruses, and who knows what else.
Click to expand...

Virus' are virus'. If people write virus' for your platform you'll need antivirus. Broadband connection, you should have a firewall.

Now adware/spyware is exclusive to a meaningful degree to Internet Explorer x86. Most of this will be taken care of with SP2 which among other things adds popup blocking to IE; the best implementation to date in my opinion. Or by simply using another browser.

But IE still needs improvement. I actually tried Firefox and it's almost good enough for me to switch but not quite. Apparently MS knows this as it has ressurected the IE development team. I would actually like to see Firefox improve. It needs to work with NT authentication and ISA server and it needs to be faster. IE is still the king of HTML rendering. But I am surprised at how good Firefox is. It's probably the most polished open-source app available IMO.

Of course, Apple should release Safari for Windows or maybe wrap the Safari UI look and feel around the IE engine. This would hit MS pretty hard.

Anyway, I'm buying my first AMD motherboard and CPU and am open to MS alternatives, but they have to be as good or better and that hasn't happened yet.
 
MorganX said:
Virus' are virus'. If people write virus' for your platform you'll need antivirus. Broadband connection, you should have a firewall.

Now adware/spyware is exclusive to a meaningful degree to Internet Explorer x86. Most of this will be taken care of with SP2 which among other things adds popup blocking to IE; the best implementation to date in my opinion. Or by simply using another browser.

But IE still needs improvement. I actually tried Firefox and it's almost good enough for me to switch but not quite. Apparently MS knows this as it has ressurected the IE development team. I would actually like to see Firefox improve. It needs to work with NT authentication and ISA server and it needs to be faster. IE is still the king of HTML rendering. But I am surprised at how good Firefox is. It's probably the most polished open-source app available IMO.

Of course, Apple should release Safari for Windows or maybe wrap the Safari UI look and feel around the IE engine. This would hit MS pretty hard.

Anyway, I'm buying my first AMD motherboard and CPU and am open to MS alternatives, but they have to be as good or better and that hasn't happened yet.
Click to expand...

Like i said, i really don't care who what when where how or why...
at the end of the day - i get more work done on OSX, this is simply all that matters.
 
Yeah, I hate it when people blame spyware/adware on WinXP (BTW, i think spyware/adware has reached an epidemic, and the public is ill-informed and knows nothing about how to fix it).

But, the problem lies within IE.

I use Firefox and I LOVE IT. Yes it is a milisecond slower than IE and it is incompatable with some sites (Ive been using for 3 mos and have run into a total of 2 incompatible sites) but at the end of the day, Firefox makes WinXP a much better place to be.

Now adware/spyware is exclusive to a meaningful degree to Internet Explorer x86. Most of this will be taken care of with SP2 which among other things adds popup blocking to IE; the best implementation to date in my opinion. Or by simply using another browser.
Click to expand...

I actually used to be bogged down by adware and spyware but then I discovered Ad-Aware. Yes, it was a hassle to run frequently but it got the job done... until it stopped removing everything, even with the most recent updates.

I did some research and found out about what are known as "Browser hijackers". What differentiates a "Browser Hijacker" from adware/spyware is that it does not show anywhere that it is installed, and there is no visual difference anywhere in your computer (they just slow down IE and windows A LOT) ... AND they cannot be removed using conventional methods (Add/remove programs, ad-aware, spybot etc.).

Upon further research I discovered that the way these get installed is through some hole in the version of Java that IE uses. The problem can be fixed if that version of Java is removed and the most recent version of Sun Java is installed.

I realize these are things that a normal user shouldnt have to do to have a "useable" computer but it is unjust when people blame their computers problems with spyware/adware on WinXP instead of the true culprit, IE.

(BTW, it was IE in the internet, with the hole) <- "Clue" reference :p
 
macsrus said:
The plural of virus is VIRUSES....... NOT virii.....


Sorry.... just a little pet peeve of mine....... :)
Click to expand...

you are correct, my mistake.

maybe if i used microsoft software more often i'd have more experience with virusES and wouldn't have made the mistake.
 
zpapasmurf said:
Yeah, I hate it when people blame spyware/adware on WinXP (BTW, i think spyware/adware has reached an epidemic, and the public is ill-informed and knows nothing about how to fix it).

But, the problem lies within IE.

I use Firefox and I LOVE IT. Yes it is a milisecond slower than IE and it is incompatable with some sites (Ive been using for 3 mos and have run into a total of 2 incompatible sites) but at the end of the day, Firefox makes WinXP a much better place to be.


I actually used to be bogged down by adware and spyware but then I discovered Ad-Aware. Yes, it was a hassle to run frequently but it got the job done... until it stopped removing everything, even with the most recent updates.

I did some research and found out about what are known as "Browser hijackers". What differentiates a "Browser Hijacker" from adware/spyware is that it does not show anywhere that it is installed, and there is no visual difference anywhere in your computer (they just slow down IE and windows A LOT) ... AND they cannot be removed using conventional methods (Add/remove programs, ad-aware, spybot etc.).

Upon further research I discovered that the way these get installed is through some hole in the version of Java that IE uses. The problem can be fixed if that version of Java is removed and the most recent version of Sun Java is installed.

I realize these are things that a normal user shouldnt have to do to have a "useable" computer but it is unjust when people blame their computers problems with spyware/adware on WinXP instead of the true culprit, IE.

(BTW, it was IE in the internet, with the hole) <- "Clue" reference :p
Click to expand...

Yes, finally. Get rid of IE, get rid of your problems. Its that simple.

I have been using Firefox since last August (2003), and since then, the amount of spyware I get has dramatically (and dare I say exponentially) decreased. Its gotten to the point that its actually a WASTE of time to run SpyBot and Ad-aware--they never find anything anymore. Actually, they haven't found anything since Oct '03, since I switched to Avant Browser for anything IE related on that matter.

I haven't spend a single minute "maintaining" applications that rid of these annoyances (spyware/viruses/etc). I installed them 10 months ago, but I find that the need for them is completely gone by using Firefox. The "constant maintenance" PC myth is busted, I'm afraid. I actually spend my time chatting to friends, listening to iTunes, and using Firefox/Thunderbird (0.9 and 0.7, respectively, were released this month!). Oh, and plenty of time for working on papers for my Technical Writing class this summer :)
 
Gotta agree with you guys, the root of all evil sometimes seems to be Internet Explorer. Even as much as people like to blame it on Windows, it's not the OS at all.

I switched to "FireFox" after my cousin (Kimopupule) got me to make the switch. I have absolutely no problems with AdWare, SpyWare, Viruses, or Messenger Services AT ALL anymore. And I have Windows XP on my PC which I use FireFox. So it's not Windows at all, I have to agree the problem lies somewhere in IE.

Two thumbs up to the Netscape guys at Mozilla for their hard work on that browswer solution...

But to the main topic of Longhorn, I'm actually anticipating it's realease. It seems to be a lot like OS X as of now, but the earliest I've heard from legitimate sources of it comming out would be 2007, most likely later. And we've known this for a while now. But with all that time before it comes out I'm sure things will change as it evolves into what the Microsoft guys really want... Imitating other operating systems in previews is nothing new, and they almost never turn out the way they preview years in advance... I like the new 3D graphics engine power behind the OS though. I think it's about time that Microsoft threw a major graphical engine in to power their OS. Avalon seems kool, and the two tiers to get the name seem like a plus. This means kooler icons, skins, and the all round graphical experience of the OS will be improved. This is one area Windows has needed to step up in. And I seriously doubt that the system requrements will be all that hard to reach by 2007-2008. From 2001 to 2004 we've seen 1GHz jump to 3.6GHz. We've also seen comanies like AMD have the same GHz as a G5, and the same L2 cache as a G5, and perform just as well with a single processor by adding a second channel memory and more pins...And that's at 2.4GHz, not even close to 3. Meaning MHz aren't always the solution, and the MHz might not necessarily be required to be so high to run the Longhorn OS. It depends on how the processors are architectured and designed by then. Especially seeing IBM and Intel's interest in the way AMD has architectured the FX-53, it looks like 939 is bringing on a whole new concept CPU. The system requirements spoken of now are for todays technology, not the futures' technology. Meaning you might not need those kind of MHz to achive those goals... And those figures dont' seem to be so hard to reach in the next three to four years anyway. Whoever says Longhorn will be out in 2005-6 I dunno where they got it from, but I've NEVER heard that from any source before. 2007 is always the earliest, most say 2008. So that's a long shot from now, and those system requirements don't sound all that bad considering the rapid pace of technology. It's too early to start bashing that aspect of Longhorn, cause it's too far away. All in all I think the OS will do just fine, especially if they are taking ideas from Apple again like MS always seems to do..lol
 
CholEoptera36 said:
Gotta agree with you guys, the root of all evil sometimes seems to be Internet Explorer. Even as much as people like to blame it on Windows, it's not the OS at all.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but IE, like IIS, the Graphics Subsystem etc lives in the kernel space... so technichally, it might be considered the "OS," maybe...
 
I don't know all the facts about if it truely IS Internet Explorer or not... But when I switched to FireFox all those AdWare and Messenger Service problems went away. Interesting topic, but I do hate one thing... I am still forced to use my Internet Explorer to use Windows Update :mad: I can't do it with FireFox, which really sucks cause as soon as I get on IE... here come the adds!!! lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back