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krasi82 said:
If you don't like don't use and shut up. Mac fans use Macs and most of 'em hate Windows and MS. Windows fans use Windows and MS products. Microsoft might own more marketshare and everything but if you think about a computer is a computer it doesn't ammter if it's Windows, Mac OS X, or Linux. If you hate so much then why do you keep talking about it. It;s futile to keep arguing over something that can never be solved. No comapny is perfect, Microsoft has flaws and so does Apple. Thats the way it goes. :mad:

Apple has flaws?!??
 
krasi82 said:
Mac fans use Macs and most of 'em hate Windows and MS.

It's the "hate an inanimate object" and "company of tens of thousands of people that you don't know" part that seems to keep this futile issue alive.
 
Mac OS is original

Mac OS is the starting point for all other operating systems. Windows, while infinitely more widely spread, is a cheap buggy os which uses the most popular features from Mac's. Plus Longhorn has really high system specs. No way anyone is going to buy something that would cost them the price of over two new computers just to run a new OS
dagmx.sig1mac.jpg
 
MorganX said:
It's the "hate an inanimate object" and "company of tens of thousands of people that you don't know" part that seems to keep this futile issue alive.
Actually I hought it was a dislike of Bill Gates... ;)
 
Fukui said:
Actually I hought it was a dislike of Bill Gates... ;)

I wouldn't say that's completely true for everyone. Although I prefer Macs to PCs and OSX to Windows, I actually have a fair bit of respect for Bill Gates. Like him or not, he is one hell of a businessman - whether he uses slimy tactics or not sometimes, the point is he gets results – and look at the company he has built. He is very intelligent, and is actually the top “giver” in the world – he has donated more money (in the 10s of billions of dollars) to charity than anyone else, and has been the top giver for the past few years. I admire philanthropists like this, as nothing annoys me more than rich people who just sit on their bags of money, or worse yet, waste it on useless material objects like $500,000 cars, multi-million dollar mansions, and other useless trophies. (Not saying Bill Gates doesn’t own a lot of expensive things of course, but balance is the key, as with everything in life.)

I’m not a Microsoft fan by any means, but I personally don’t have any issues with Mr. Gates. That’s of course just my opinion though, everyone else is entitled to theirs, and if people absolutely loathe and despise him, I have no issues with that.

Oh, and zealots and flamers need not reply to this message – only intelligent comments please. :cool:
 
~Shard~ said:
I wouldn't say that's completely true for everyone.
Well, of course.
Actually for me, it was OS X and thier HW designs and G4 chip that got me interested (that and the horrosity that was/is windows)... later on as I read the history between the many companies around Apple/Microsoft, I began to dislike him. Though of course you have to respect his power, that still doesn't mean I "like" him... :)
 
~Shard~ said:
I actually have a fair bit of respect for Bill Gates. Like him or not, he is one hell of a businessman - whether he uses slimy tactics or not sometimes, the point is he gets results – and look at the company he has built.

That's like saying you admire a date rapist for his skill with the ladies. He gets results, despite his tactics...
 
~Shard~ said:
I actually have a fair bit of respect for Bill Gates. Like him or not, he is one hell of a businessman...

Businessman?! More like "he [Bill Gates] is one hell of a 'white collar' CRIMINAL that needs to get the living **** kicked out of him."

Like Bernie Mac said in the movie Head Of State [paraphrasing], "I don't care if someone is wearing a white collar or white tank top, if they steal from me I'm gonna beat their a$$ just the same".


~Shard~ said:
...whether he uses slimy tactics...

Slimy? Try illegal. Monoploysoft apologists hate it when I say that. Then I have to bury them in legal documentation, factual observation and accounts, etc.

I detest misinformation and propoganda that is spoon fed to the unsuspecting public through marketing campaigns funded by ill gotten gains.

~Shard~ said:
...the point is he gets results...

Drug dealers and other criminals get results [and money] with their illegal tactics, that doesn't make them any more businesslike, much less "respectable". It just makes them criminals that haven't been caught and/or APPROPRIATELY convicted... yet.

If you think I'm being an extremist by drawing parallels between drug dealers and "Gates of Hell", then ask yourself why the U.S. Army recently ordered him [yes, him personally] to essentially stop spreading his poison [an age old trick by drug dealers that get's people hooked on drugs [M$ Awfice] for "free" [trial versions], only to have them end up paying continuously when they can't function [be productive] without using what they're used [addicted] to. Several government agencies have [finally] caught on to this viscious cycle as is proven here:

http://news.com.com/2100-1012_3-5171976.html

Can you imagine if street criminals had the money to market their junk the way MicroShaft markets theirs? How much "better" do those classless geeks in Redmond think that they can make a glorified typewriter/word processor [Word], spreadsheet [Excel], and cheesy slideshow [PowerPoint] software suite and expect that business model to remain profitable?

As far as WinBlows goes, it's a joke of an OS [I try not to laugh when I hear someone call it an "operating" system] that has seen it's best days. The COMBINED efforts of the open source community [Mac OS X, Linux, etc.], is gonna seriously level the playing field by the time WinSlows "LongWait" get's out of the gate.

:D GET IT?!!! :D

'Cause Longhorn is a [cash]cow that's out in the pasture, and it's penned up with fences and "Gates" watching big cats [Mac OS X] and penguins, little red devils, etc. [Linux] playing in the real world... it was corny, I know.

~Shard~ said:
...and look at the company he has built.

Okay.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0422/040602_news_microsoft.php
http://www.bdt.com/david/ms.html [this page is dated before M$'s most recent monopoly conviction by the European Union]

Just Google [not MSN search] the keywords; Microsoft, monopoly, court, conviction, etc. and you can find out a whole lot more about the illegal organization that this criminal has built.

~Shard~ said:
He is very intelligent...

Yes, long throughout history the more successful criminals have often been referred to as ingenious, brilliant, cunning, whatever. The key word however is still "criminal".

~Shard~ said:
...and is actually the top “giver” in the world...

He was rich years before he started "giving". He only started doing so in the early 2k's at the request of his PR people to try and divert attention from the US monopoly conviction, among other M$ illegal activities.

~Shard~ said:
nothing annoys me more than rich people who just sit on their bags of money...

Once again. He was rich years before he started "giving". He only started doing so in the early 2k's at the request of his PR people to try and divert attention from the US monopoly conviction, among other M$ illegal activities.

~Shard~ said:
I personally don’t have any issues with Mr. Gates.

Not to be rude, but you don't really seem to have proven that you know enough truths about him, his past motivations, his present actions, his company's future intentions, etc. Only by digging deep in the dirt will you find this worm.

~Shard~ said:
That’s of course just my opinion though, everyone else is entitled to theirs...

Cool.

~Shard~ said:
...and if people absolutely loathe and despise him, I have no issues with that.

I would be one of those people. I only loathe and despise evil people who slither their way through life surviving off of people's trust, while playing off of their ignorance, and or getting by stealing [or as M$ put's it, "reverse engineering"] the idea's and products of TRUE innovative companies [read my sig.] and their employee's hard work.

I live to watch them get caught up in their past, ala Saddam [btw, nobody needs to turn this into a political post. I was just citing an example and not trying to comment on my position on the war and post-war Iraq].

Gates & Org's eventual payback [and I've heard she's a b!tch] will be exponentially more gratifying for me.

~Shard~ said:
Oh, and zealots and flamers need not reply to this message – only intelligent comments please. :cool:

Other than my use of nicknames for MicroSucks, I tried to keep emotions to a minimum but the truth, especially if not known yet, is often misinterpreted as "flaming".

When I've engaged in these conversations over the years, I've often been asked what my problem with Micro$oft and Gates is. I've always simply replied:

"I don't support criminal organizations or their kingpins, therefore I don't support Microsoft or Bill Gates. Proof is available upon request." :cool:
 
funny

Some of you people are funny. As for me, I love Microsoft! I love macs too. I guess you can say I love computers. From linux to M$, it is all the same to me. They all provide different functions. I have to say, every great game is made for the Microsoft platform, sure there are mac versions but, why would I want to do that? There is a reason I bought the ATI 9800, to use it.

So, I just purchased a 12' powerbook and I couldn't be happier. The student price beats any competition such as sony, alienware.

As for Gates? I personally don't know him nor do I take the time to glance at his tactics.
 
MacQuest said:
Businessman?! More like "he [Bill Gates] is one hell of a 'white collar' CRIMINAL that needs to get the living **** kicked out of him."

Like Bernie Mac said in the movie Head Of State [paraphrasing], "I don't care if someone is wearing a white collar or white tank top, if they steal from me I'm gonna beat their a$$ just the same".

Yes, but there are many businessmen who are criminals. And like it or not, at the end of the day, they’re good at what they do, whether it’s ethical, legal or not. I’m not saying it’s right, and I’m not condoning them, but that’s the way it is.

MacQuest said:
Slimy? Try illegal. Monoploysoft apologists hate it when I say that. Then I have to bury them in legal documentation, factual observation and accounts, etc.

I detest misinformation and propoganda that is spoon fed to the unsuspecting public through marketing campaigns funded by ill gotten gains.

Slimy, illegal, immoral, yes, call it what you like – I completely agree with you.

I too dislike propaganda – the perfect recent example is of the American media coverage of the war in Iraq (not turning this into a political discussion, just using it as an example). It is simply appalling how the Americans have skewed what actually happened in Iraq, as I’m sure you’ll agree. I recommend the movie “Control Room” to anyone who wants to see the truth – an excellent documentary. Anyway, back on topic...

MacQuest said:
If you think I'm being an extremist by drawing parallels between drug dealers and "Gates of Hell", then ask yourself why the U.S. Army recently ordered him [yes, him personally] to essentially stop spreading his poison [an age old trick by drug dealers that get's people hooked on drugs [M$ Awfice] for "free" [trial versions], only to have them end up paying continuously when they can't function [be productive] without using what they're used [addicted] to. Several government agencies have [finally] caught on to this viscious cycle as is proven here:

http://news.com.com/2100-1012_3-5171976.html

I don’t think you are being an extremist at all, and I am well aware of this issue. Pretty amazing, isn’t it, that Gates can pull off things like this and get away with it? Once again, right or wrong, he knows what he’s doing – thanks for proving my point. ;)


MacQuest said:
As far as WinBlows goes, it's a joke of an OS [I try not to laugh when I hear someone call it an "operating" system] that has seen it's best days. The COMBINED efforts of the open source community [Mac OS X, Linux, etc.], is gonna seriously level the playing field by the time WinSlows "LongWait" get's out of the gate.

GET IT?!!!

'Cause Longhorn is a [cash]cow that's out in the pasture, and it's penned up with fences and "Gates" watching big cats [Mac OS X] and penguins, little red devils, etc. [Linux] playing in the real world... it was corny, I know.

For the record, I don’t care for Windows either, (which is partly why I use a Mac), but since I never made any comments whatsoever about Windows, or Microsoft for that matter, and was only speaking about Bill Gates, I’ll ignore this off-topic rant if you don’t mind me... ;)


MacQuest said:
Okay.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/featur...s_microsoft.php
http://www.bdt.com/david/ms.html [this page is dated before M$'s most recent monopoly conviction by the European Union]

Just Google [not MSN search] the keywords; Microsoft, monopoly, court, conviction, etc. and you can find out a whole lot more about the illegal organization that this criminal has built.

Once again, I completely agree with you. As I said, look at the company he has built. He is pulling off all these illegalities with essentially no repercussions. I’ll say it yet again, he knows what he’s doing.

MacQuest said:
Yes, long throughout history the more successful criminals have often been referred to as ingenious, brilliant, cunning, whatever. The key word however is still "criminal".

So what exactly is your point? My statement is still valid – he is very intelligent. I also think Hitler was intelligent. Do I condone what he did, of course not, but as a military mind, and a persuader of the people, no one can deny he was very intelligent and a significant leader. Is he possibly the most horrible person who has ever lived? Yes. Do I despise him? Yes. But was he intelligent in his field? Yes. So you may once again speak to criminals, illegal activities, etc. however this has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence – in other words, just because you engage in illegal activities does not mean you lack intelligence.

MacQuest said:
He was rich years before he started "giving". He only started doing so in the early 2k's at the request of his PR people to try and divert attention from the US monopoly conviction, among other M$ illegal activities.

Once again. He was rich years before he started "giving". He only started doing so in the early 2k's at the request of his PR people to try and divert attention from the US monopoly conviction, among other M$ illegal activities.

Forced or not, the fact is that he does it. And when I look at how many thousands of people have benefited from his generosity, and how many billions he has given away, I could honestly care less about the circumstances. People are better off because of his giving and that’s all that matters in the grand scheme of things – I don’t care if he was forced to write checks at gunpoint. Is he as genuine as other givers? Doe she have absolutely no ulterior motives? Of course not – I never said that. But no matter how you look at it, giving away billions of dollars and helping people in need is a good thing for this world and there should be more of it.

MacQuest said:
Not to be rude, but you don't really seem to have proven that you know enough truths about him, his past motivations, his present actions, his company's future intentions, etc. Only by digging deep in the dirt will you find this worm.

Well, I suppose if I had a lot of time I could write up a more comprehensive account of my knowledge of Mr. Gates, but that wasn’t the point of my post – I was just speaking generally and simplistically of him. I have a great deal of knowledge about Mr. Gates, have followed all of the Microsoft court cases, injunctions, trials, etc. for years, am well aware of all of the “dirt” on this “worm”, have read a great deal about him in general, and do have a great deal of knowledge on him. Believe what you will, but your above statement regarding my knowledge of Mr. Gates is simply unfounded, judgmental and false.

MacQuest said:
I would be one of those people. I only loathe and despise evil people who slither their way through life surviving off of people's trust, while playing off of their ignorance, and or getting by stealing [or as M$ put's it, "reverse engineering"] the idea's and products of TRUE innovative companies [read my sig.] and their employee's hard work.

I live to watch them get caught up in their past, ala Saddam [btw, nobody needs to turn this into a political post. I was just citing an example and not trying to comment on my position on the war and post-war Iraq].

Gates & Org's eventual payback [and I've heard she's a b!tch] will be exponentially more gratifying for me.

Once again, I never said I agree with his tactics. I believe Bill Gates probably should go to jail, and Microsoft should be fined excessively. All I said, if you read my post carefully, was that I somewhat respect him (this is different than admiring or liking him, I’ll pull out a dictionary if you want – either that, or I am not using the correct term) and I think he is a good businessman who is intelligent. You seem to be making more of my post than there actually is!

That being said, I respect your opinion, I do not take offence to anything you’ve said, and as I’ve stated multiple times in my reply, I agree with pretty much all of your points. Thanks for the intelligent (although rant-like in some parts) response. :)
 
the ends do not justify the means. but i don't really know what those means are so i can't really say whether i hate microsoft with a deep loathing passion or not. and with the release date put on Longhorn (2007 i think?) the processor requirements may not seem all that ridiculous then as they do now. but that's still a long time.
 
ifjake said:
the ends do not justify the means. but i don't really know what those means are so i can't really say whether i hate microsoft with a deep loathing passion or not.

I completely agree with you - I am by no means trying to give anyone the wrong impression with my posts, and I completely agree that the ends do no justify the means. Regardless though, you still have to consider the ends. ;)
 
~Shard~ said:
I actually have a fair bit of respect for Bill Gates. Like him or not, he is one hell of a businessman - whether he uses slimy tactics or not sometimes, the point is he gets results – and look at the company he has built. He is very intelligent, and is actually the top “giver” in the world

What's his "giver" marketshare? Is it similar to his OS marketshare?

What percentage of his wealth has he given away? Is it more than everyone else?

I'm not thinking so.

It's a nice thing he's a giver; unfortunately (and no disrespect to Bill Gates) that means we're more and more at the whim of Bill Gates. If he truly had such a huge impact on overall giving, as he does on overall business ethics, it would be a very bad thing indeed (and not his fault in that case, but terrible nonetheless.)
 
sixteen said:
What's his "giver" marketshare? Is it similar to his OS marketshare?

What percentage of his wealth has he given away? Is it more than everyone else?

I'm not thinking so.

It's a nice thing he's a giver; unfortunately (and no disrespect to Bill Gates) that means we're more and more at the whim of Bill Gates. If he truly had such a huge impact on overall giving, as he does on overall business ethics, it would be a very bad thing indeed (and not his fault in that case, but terrible nonetheless.)

Feel free to read the following articles for the full story on how Gates is America's top philanthropist:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_48/b3860601.htm
(short blurb, but I have the actual edition of BusinessWeek and it is an excellent feature)
http://www.msnbc.com/local/esj/A149678.asp?cp1=1

To paraphrase the second article, in an answer to your question, from 1999-2003, Bill Gates and his wife pledged $22.9 billion and gave away an estimated $24.97 billion to charitable causes. This equates to 54% of his current net worth of $46 billion. Not too shabby in my books....
 
~Shard~ said:
To paraphrase the second article, in an answer to your question, from 1999-2003, Bill Gates and his wife pledged $22.9 billion and gave away an estimated $24.97 billion to charitable causes. This equates to 54% of his current net worth of $46 billion. Not too shabby in my books....

His giving in any time frame other than the present has no relevence to his current net worth, it would maybe be relevent at the time of giving (and it would clearly be much lower.)

It's also ridiculous to combine several years of giving and compare it to net worth at a single point in time.

Again, I'm not criticizing Bill Gates, good on him.

I'm not even critiquing the system that allows a person to amass truly obscene amounts of wealth and then privately determine who or what is in need (and yes, it does matter where the money goes, and again here Bill Gates has nothing to answer to me for, much of what he gives is given to causes anyone would consider noble).

The notion that Bill Gates has given until it hurts, however, is a joke.
 
sixteen said:
His giving in any time frame other than the present has no relevence to his current net worth, it would maybe be relevent at the time of giving (and it would clearly be much lower.)

It's also ridiculous to combine several years of giving and compare it to net worth at a single point in time.

Again, I'm not criticizing Bill Gates, good on him.

I'm not even critiquing the system that allows a person to amass truly obscene amounts of wealth and then privately determine who or what is in need (and yes, it does matter where the money goes, and again here Bill Gates has nothing to answer to me for, much of what he gives is given to causes anyone would consider noble).

The notion that Bill Gates has given until it hurts, however, is a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just stating the facts here - and in fact, I do agree with your point fo view. :)
 
~Shard~ said:
He is very intelligent...


Very intelligent, maybe, but very sensitive. He dropped out of college because he couldn't handle not being the top in his class. He needs to grow up.

and is actually the top “giver” in the world – he has donated more money (in the 10s of billions of dollars) to charity than anyone else, and has been the top giver for the past few years. I admire philanthropists like this, as nothing annoys me more than rich people who just sit on their bags of money, or worse yet, waste it on useless material objects like $500,000 cars, multi-million dollar mansions, and other useless trophies. (Not saying Bill Gates doesn’t own a lot of expensive things of course, but balance is the key, as with everything in life.)


While it's great he gives so much, all of it is tax deductible, and most of it is seemingly just to lower his taxes.
 
dopefiend said:
Prove it.
I don't know about that. But it was written some time ago, before his foundations' appearance that his friends had to get him start a charity/foundation "because thats what we should do" kind of mentality... (I read it in a publication, cant remember) I also find it funny how India decides to back Linux, and then then next week he decides to meet with India's prime minister to "discuss" that move, while at the same time pledging 10 mil a year for 10 years to help fight aids in india... TBO if I was him I would donate 10 bil a year for 10 years to fight aids in india, but its not my money...
 
Ethics, smartness, and riches...

(WHISTLING)

OK, guys, time-out here a minute.

All of you are now trying to argue the edge of a razor. You're all arguing in the wrong direction and looking in it, too.

First off, this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with money or the exact dollar figure. So quit arguing that point. Bill was never interested in money; or better put, obscene richness was NOT Bill's end goal. It was a major part of his strategy, but it was NOT the end goal or the yardstick by which he and Microsoft measure success.

That metric is POWER, plain and simple. Because, simply put, Bill knows that by obtaining power, you can control everything. And, Bill has always been a power freak. In fact, I would go so far as to say he has had a greater taste for power than anyone in business history, including Kennedy, Carnegie, Rockafeller, all the coal, oil, railroad and steel millionaires and billionaires of the late 19th and early-to-mid 20th centuries. And, let me assure you, ladies and gentlemen, those guys were very power hungry and played for keeps.

You might be tempted to argue, "Well, Bill Gates never killed anyone, so he's not as corrupt or power-hungry." Don't go there, because times have changed. You don't have to kill anyone anymore to get power, except in limited circumstances and in certain specific industries (none of which is Microsoft into... yet...)

Anyhow, none of the guys I mentioned above ran the entire world, and even so there weren't nearly as many people on it at the time as there are now, and Bill has made it extremely obvious that he wants the ENTIRE WORLD to run his OS. To wit: PCs, servers, handhelds, media players, console game systems (and a bunch of leading game manufacturers to boot), and who knows what is next.

Trying to make the argument that "Bill Gates is smart, and therefore he knows what he is doing" is really a straw argument in my opinion. Bill Gates is like a corrupt politician. It's a matter of what he can get away with, who he has to put pressure on, who he has to buy off, etc. This makes him a modern-day strong-arm-tactic-using person, and nothing more.

Take the U.S. anti-trust case. I'm going to draw from a political parallel, not that I'm trying to start a political discussion here.

In the mid-late 1990s, the U.S. government was going to impeach then-president Bill Clinton. The reasons that had been cited generally up to then were: his lying to investigators, involvement in and connection to money-laundrying, abuse of power, etc. Anyone remember Filegate? Or Whitewater? Or what's-his-name who "died" suddenly before he could be called to testify?

Anyhow, the press and many politicians made a big fuss over his marriage and his sexual infidelity, trying to steer this whole thing off-course. It got to such a fever pitch that that is largely what the prosecution went with. Now, don't get me wrong, I think what he did in that regard was immoral, sends a bad message to our society and our kids, that he disbused his place as a "role model", and the like, but I would agree that these are not exactly impeachable offences. As a consequence, the charges were dismissed and Clinton went scott-free.

This is PRECISELY the kind of thing that happened during the MS/US Anti-trust proceedings. Microsoft has stolen, they have lied and cheated. They have used undue and illegal influence, ill-gotten gains, bought their way into monopoly status, engaged in collusion, probably are even guilty of some of the provisions of the RIICO act, etc., but none of that was what wound up in the final trial or the judge's findings of fact.

Ultimately, there was nothing "sufficiently damning" (my words, not the judge's) to do anything severe against Microsoft. Because of the way that the U.S. justice system works, the judge can only consider information brought before him/her.

Let me interrupt myself at this point and make the observation that yes, indeed, there were many witnesses called to testify, from Sun to Netscape to Apple and others, but given what is in the findings of fact (mentioned above), I am forced to conclude that nothing of significant substance was brought before the judge (or at least was considered by the judge), the penalties were minimal. And, as a further slap in the face, the court even went to the extent of having Microsoft make determinations as to the penalties in some cases and their implimentation.

And remember that stink a year or so ago when Microsoft was going to donate to schools? Only the catch was they'd be donating x86 hardware which was, guess what, going to have to run Microsoft OSs. What in the heck was that all about?!?

And, let's not forget this either: the U.S. Government was almost certainly running scared because of the possibility of breaking up or out-and-out destroying a company who's products form their own infrastructure and the infrastructure of many other governments and millions of U.S. and foreign businesses. Besides, even after you factor out whatever legal tax sheltering/dodging schemes their accounting department uses, that company's still gotta be paying a helluva tax bill every quarter. Imagine Uncle Sam doing with less tax revenue.

What's happened here, folks, is that Microsoft basically side-stepped the U.S. justice system. Other than the usual guesses of "money and power", I'm not sure how they did it, but the point is they did it. And they're going to go on "doing it". What will ulitmately happen, I think, is that the rest of the world is going to be so pissed off with Microsoft that they will, one-at-a-time and in groups pursue some other OS maker (BTW, many have already), and when this happens, America will be the only country (more or less) that still uses MS operating systems, and since the market here will be so locked in, we'll keep using them.

Just like the U.S. is the only country to use English measurement and does little more than pay lip service to metric education except for specialized courses of study in more senior years of school, if a given student even elects to take those courses or pursue a career requiring those courses.

Just like the U.S. is the only country that uses Letter and Legal sizes of paper instead of A4, etc., which are all based on mathematics which allow proper enlargement and reduction when you go from one size to another, instead of how when we enlarge something it NEVER fits on the next size up paper.

Just like the U.S. is just about the only country in which we almost exclusively use top-loading clothes washers and dryers, even though they cost more money to use, consume more water and tear up our clothes faster.

So, before any of you try to go on being neutral or "open minded" or whatever about Microsoft or, what's worse, even supportive of Bill or Microsoft, try to remember that Bill Gates may not be original, but he is still wrong.

Right and wrong are NOT, as much as society wants to tell us otherwise, relative concepts. They are absolutes and, if anything is relative, it is our implimentation of standards regarding right and wrong.

Mike
 
On a side note, I'd rather pay less for M$ crap and make my own decisions about which charity to support than that I have to pay for those guy to make obscene profits and it's up to them to decide whether to give to charity at all. Gates only gives back to the world a small amount of what he ripped us off in the first place.
Isn't something like $0.80 out of every $ 1.00 you pay for windows profit (before taxes presumably)?
 
iHack said:
Isn't something like $0.80 out of every $ 1.00 you pay for windows profit (before taxes presumably)?

There's nothing wrong with making [even an obscene amount of] profit in and of itself within the business world, it just means you're successful. What differentiates good business from bad business is HOW you make it.

As you can see in my post below, I'm not a gate$ & micro$oft fan whatsoever, but where member "Shard" and I disagree is in giving billy Boy credit for being "intelligent". I understand "Shard's" viewpoint that it takes certain characteristics and personality traits to motivate people and take on leadership roles, such as he explains in his example of Adolph Hitler.

I simply would use words like "manipulative" and/or "decietful" criminal/businessman instead of "intelligent" businessman to describe people like bill gate$ because both of those attributes can create the desired results but are much better at describing the true mentality and motivation behind their intentions. In bill's case, I would actually go so far as to use the word "psychosis" instead of mentality.

Member "MiketheC" and I seem to be saying the same thing, even though he seems to think that he is the only one with insight into this whole scenario. He's essentially preaching to the choir when he say's that "[we're] all arguing in the wrong direction and looking in it, too." :rolleyes: :)

My issue is that gate$' lack of foresight in seeing how the way that he built his organization will come back to kick him in the a**, proves that he is not at all intelligent. It's not what you do, but how you do it.

I know that Martha Stewart and all of those CEO's from Enron, Global Crossings, Tyco, Adelphia, etc. were all looked up to as "intelligent" business people BEFORE they got caught up in their own criminal activities. How are they doing now? :p :D

Again, gates and monopolysoft are just another criminal and criminal organization that haven't been PROPERLY convicted yet. The famous New York mafia boss, John Gotti, repeatedly escaped convictions as well. This only strengthened the people's and the government's resolve to make him "pay his dues". After finally being PROPERLY convicted, he died behind bars in '02. Exerpt from an article on this criminal that got away one too few times; "Looking back at Gotti's reign one can see that his only true achievement as a Mafia chieftain was to captivate the public's attention. In the end it was Gotti's ego and carelessness that led to his downfall."

Do I think gate$ will suffer this same fate? Of course not. The circumstances are far from being the same with the exception that they were/are both psychotic and criminal-minded individuals engaged in illegal activities. gate$' fate will be watching his organization's windows marketshare be leveled and be just one option instead of the only option as they have successfully led people to believe... in the past.

With every passing week/month/year, more information is exposed about gate$, micrapsoft, and winblows. Also, there is definately an "ABm" [Anything But microsoft] attitude ranging from international governments, through the business sector, and all the way down to the home user. The anti-micro$oft clique based largely in Silicon Valley has existed for years now, and you can bet that they'll all be happy to jump the "SS windows Sinking Ship" onto the alternative [Open-Source or whatever... preferrably Mac OS X :D ] bandwagon to escape going down with them.

Being a proponent of the AIM movement [Apple, IBM, Motorola... maybe we should change this to AIF now to represent Motorola' s newly created "Freescale" semiconductor subsidiary?] which brought us the PowerPC architecture, I think that IBM is doing the most damage to the wintel misinformation, marketing and propoganda juggernaut... I love Big Blue! Yes, I know that their still "in bed" with the wintel community because they are first and foremost a business that needs to remain profitable. Let them continue to drain money from m$ & intel while they support alternatives to them. Rememeber a key element to the Art of War: "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." ;)

Think about it,IBM has taken on BOTH m$ and inHel. They've thrown huge support behind the Linux community [payback for m$'s part in dropping development support for IBM's OS/2 platform http://www.os2bbs.com/os2news/OS2Warp.html ] by internally staffing a 300 employee Linux division, lending the platform unified growth capabilities and enterprise sector credibility. As far as intel, IBM partnered with AMD in January of '03 so that they could meet and increase x86 processor supplies by using IBM's fabrication plants. Of course, as you know, they're also the manufacturer of our beloved PowerPC G5 processor, which is as anti-intel's x86 architecture as you can get!

Bottom line, silly billy will regret the day he burnt all of his bridges with truly innovative companies [Apple, IBM, and countless smaller knowns and "unknowns"] in order to pawn his junk off in the marketplace. The most reliable part of micro$oft [and it's windows "OS" :rolleyes: for that matter] is it's marketing and sales department. You can always count on them to make people think that they're dealing with a good company and buying good products.

It's so interesting for me to hear clueless techno-gimps claim that the platform wars are over and that microshaft and inHel won. Over?! They've only just begun and it's getting fun! :cool:
 
iHack said:
On a side note, I'd rather pay less for M$ crap and make my own decisions about which charity to support than that I have to pay for those guy to make obscene profits and it's up to them to decide whether to give to charity at all. Gates only gives back to the world a small amount of what he ripped us off in the first place.
Isn't something like $0.80 out of every $ 1.00 you pay for windows profit (before taxes presumably)?

Indeed, many companies practice corporate wellfare this way.
For instance, here in Indy, Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals, gets outrageous tax breaks from the county and from the state of Indiana. In return, Lilly stays here (it would put a huge dent on the economy here if they left), and they donate money to charities. The problem is, the amount of money they put back in the community equals a mere 15% of what they are getting in tax breaks. Granted, they spend a pretty penny on lobbying in order to secure those tax breaks - this is money going toward politics, not the people. So that is billions of dollars in lost tax revenue for our city and state that could help raise the level of education (and reduce our drastic high-school drop-out rate), raise the quality of life, or possibly even reduce taxes for the working man and woman. ain't life grand?
 
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