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Microsoft's Longhorn
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if Bill is POWER hungry, then Steve Jobs is money hungry.
I think it is funny that you're all so down on MS and Gates while you're in line on your knees waiting for your "turn" with Jobs.
"my ruthless self-serving dictator is better than your ruthless self-serving dictator because he has less slaves and dresses them better"
that's what the argument seems to boil down to.
You guys are all trashing windows and i will be the first to acknowledge that it has some problems, but so does OS X (the finder makes me want to shoot myself daily, and networking has gotten dumber and dumber with each iteration since OS 9).
I ask you all this, though...do you use Apple Works for your word processing and spreadsheets? All this boo-hooing about how terrible MS products are and yet i'm confident that 70+% of modern Mac users (on OS X) have some form of MS Word or Office that they use regularly.
Have any of you actually used Win XP and tried to do all the things that OS X or iLife do? I think you'd be surprised to find out that WinXP has had a much simpler, more reliable and easy-to-use version of what we call iPhoto since the day XP came out. You just go to your pictures folder, and there you are. want to do a slideshow? just click slideshow. want to print out wallets? just print them out. Want to print out 4 of each image in a folder, at 3x5"? Just print them out. Want a contact sheet with file names? no problem.
I recently took my girlfriend's EPSON inkjet printer and installed it for her. Had to install drivers to get any kind of diagnostic tools or anything working (the print nozzle needed alignment and cleaning, and it wouldn't let me do it with the default OS X drivers that she had). Well, I had some stuff to print from my WinXP machine at home, so i borrowed her printer last week. I plugged in the USB cable and turned on the printer, and windows went "ding" twice. I looked at my screen and it said "your hardware has been installed" and when i opened up the folder where my pictures were and clicked "print" and did a contact sheet, it recognized the printer and gave me a progress preview and showed me the ink levels for each color and all of that...the printer downloaded (through USB) its own drivers from the ROM chip that is built into it. I guess this feature doesn't work with a Mac...
My point is this: Windows has problems. But it also has a lot of cool stuff. And in my experience it is probably 90% as reliable as Panther in general, and about 50% less likely to have an application "unexpectedly quit" at a crucial moment (like when pressing CMD-S in photoshop, for example).
I am typing this on a dual 1.8 G5 that has given me more headaches than any PC i've owned since windows 3.11 was the standard PC OS. I like apple. But they are not really much better than MS. Just smaller(the company not the machines), more yuppified, and more expensive.
I think it is funny that you're all so down on MS and Gates while you're in line on your knees waiting for your "turn" with Jobs.
"my ruthless self-serving dictator is better than your ruthless self-serving dictator because he has less slaves and dresses them better"
that's what the argument seems to boil down to.
You guys are all trashing windows and i will be the first to acknowledge that it has some problems, but so does OS X (the finder makes me want to shoot myself daily, and networking has gotten dumber and dumber with each iteration since OS 9).
I ask you all this, though...do you use Apple Works for your word processing and spreadsheets? All this boo-hooing about how terrible MS products are and yet i'm confident that 70+% of modern Mac users (on OS X) have some form of MS Word or Office that they use regularly.
Have any of you actually used Win XP and tried to do all the things that OS X or iLife do? I think you'd be surprised to find out that WinXP has had a much simpler, more reliable and easy-to-use version of what we call iPhoto since the day XP came out. You just go to your pictures folder, and there you are. want to do a slideshow? just click slideshow. want to print out wallets? just print them out. Want to print out 4 of each image in a folder, at 3x5"? Just print them out. Want a contact sheet with file names? no problem.
I recently took my girlfriend's EPSON inkjet printer and installed it for her. Had to install drivers to get any kind of diagnostic tools or anything working (the print nozzle needed alignment and cleaning, and it wouldn't let me do it with the default OS X drivers that she had). Well, I had some stuff to print from my WinXP machine at home, so i borrowed her printer last week. I plugged in the USB cable and turned on the printer, and windows went "ding" twice. I looked at my screen and it said "your hardware has been installed" and when i opened up the folder where my pictures were and clicked "print" and did a contact sheet, it recognized the printer and gave me a progress preview and showed me the ink levels for each color and all of that...the printer downloaded (through USB) its own drivers from the ROM chip that is built into it. I guess this feature doesn't work with a Mac...
My point is this: Windows has problems. But it also has a lot of cool stuff. And in my experience it is probably 90% as reliable as Panther in general, and about 50% less likely to have an application "unexpectedly quit" at a crucial moment (like when pressing CMD-S in photoshop, for example).
I am typing this on a dual 1.8 G5 that has given me more headaches than any PC i've owned since windows 3.11 was the standard PC OS. I like apple. But they are not really much better than MS. Just smaller(the company not the machines), more yuppified, and more expensive.
Considering my winxp pro box at work almost never crashes (app will crash - same as on OS X), and has had zero down time due to virus/worm problems since i got it (over 6 months ago)...icon4x said:
MikeTheC and MacQuest, you make excellent arguments its nice to converse and discuss things with intelligent people on these forums I so often grow tired of immature and ignorant posters, as Im sure you do as well.
Honestly, I do not disagree with anything that youre saying. Perhaps my initial comments were too simplistic in some respects, speaking in generalities this perhaps lead to misinterpretation. And on the other hand, perhaps I am splitting hairs with some of my choice of words and definitions, and how I am using them. Regardless, as I have said previously, I do not discount anything that has been said here about Mr. Gates however, what he has accomplished is still a feat on itself whether it is right or wrong (in this case wrong), done illegally, he has still pulled off quite an accomplishment. I guess thats all I was getting at... You could probably make the same argument for Genghis Kahn he was quite a leader, quite intelligent and accomplished a lot.
And as a minor afterthought MacQuest, you may want to start typing the words Microsoft, Bill and Gates properly your clever witticisms grow a bit tiresome when used excessively in every single instance.
Honestly, I do not disagree with anything that youre saying. Perhaps my initial comments were too simplistic in some respects, speaking in generalities this perhaps lead to misinterpretation. And on the other hand, perhaps I am splitting hairs with some of my choice of words and definitions, and how I am using them. Regardless, as I have said previously, I do not discount anything that has been said here about Mr. Gates however, what he has accomplished is still a feat on itself whether it is right or wrong (in this case wrong), done illegally, he has still pulled off quite an accomplishment. I guess thats all I was getting at... You could probably make the same argument for Genghis Kahn he was quite a leader, quite intelligent and accomplished a lot.
And as a minor afterthought MacQuest, you may want to start typing the words Microsoft, Bill and Gates properly your clever witticisms grow a bit tiresome when used excessively in every single instance.
screen shots
http://www.winoscentral.com/software/longhorn.php
Check here to see that big ugly thing
abc123 said:
http://www.winoscentral.com/software/longhorn.php
Check here to see that big ugly thing
g4cubed said:
holy mother of natural.
that looks like a giant OS X menu bar on the side.
makes me feel unbalanced and fall off my chair.
~Shard~ said:
I would definately agree that it was quite an accomplishment, as this statement is neutral enough to convey the message without lending credibility to intelligence. I just don't think he is a smart person because if he were, he would have been able to see the backlash that has, and will continue to, come back to haunt him.
~Shard~ said:
My reason for not capitalizing his and his company's name, as well as spelling them improperly, is as a show of protest and direspect to both of them. In my book, they don't even deserve that minor courtesy.
Fukui said:Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense... I wouldn't buy a G5 if I thought it was worse than windows 3.11?
Don't worry, he's just trolling.
Have anyone of you played around with Windows XP enough to realize that the UI structure that the posted Longhorn screenshot galleries are showing us is realizable in Windows XP? I truly doubt that the latest build of Longhorn is what has already been posted on websites. Of course, if this IS very similar to the final build... Microsoft needs medication.
Then again, the basic look of the Dock is also realizable in XP, so we'll just have to see what future leaks can show us.
P.S. -
Fundamentally, there is no difference between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Oh wait, that's right, Steve Jobs is more of a metrosexual, and has higher-priced products.
Fundamentally, there is no difference between Microsoft (a.k.a. micrapsoft a.k.a. micro$oft) and Apple (a.k.a. creator of holy writ). Oh wait, that's right, Microsoft has MUCH greater market share, and anti-Windows converted professionals are switching to Linux, and totally skipping over Mac OS. Funny that.
Why can you say that Apple innovates more? If it didn't, it would no longer exist. That's how effective the Microsoft machine is.
The only reason those like MacQuest can get away with such one-sided hyperbole is because:
1. Apple has less market share.
2. This is a Mac fansite, ergo, anything which is one-sidedly in favor of Apple can be accepted, yet anything remotely siding with Microsoft is called, as you said yourself, "trolling." I find that peculiar.
Before the advent of Linux, Microsoft had a MUCH better position in the consumer software market than Apple could ever dream of. How?
People may have LIKED Apple because of its much-touted (there's PR for you) stability and better UI (let's assume I agree with you on that one, and I do think Expose is brilliant), but people NEEDED Windows. To draw an exaggerated comparison: you may LIKE Ferraris, but if they could only be driven on roads with names beginning with "R," would you buy it over a Toyota?
P.P.S. - Wow, MacQuest, you sure seem to have an obsessive disrespect for Bill Gates. In fact, you are so fixated on drawing comparisons between him and other great people that what actually comes across is a great deal of respect for the man, in the same way that people respect, yet hate, Adolf (not Adolph) Hitler.
So you say that Microsoft has a great marketing department. Do you think Apple's is nonexistent? For a company with single-digit market share and a percentage of software compatibility also in the single digits, it's sure survived for a long time. Oh yes, that's right, innovation. Well, if you want to just pin it on innovation, name one other company which:
1. operates in a monopoly market basically owned by another company.
2. has had single-digit market share for an extended period of time.
3. is not on the verge of exiting the market.
I mean, if it's just innovation, innovation comes across in every field, so the Apple-Microsoft scenario should repeat itself at least in SOME other market. Come on, I'm just DYING for you to come up with an example.
Oh yes, MacQuest, don't you realize that your commentary is to trolling as Rush Limbaugh is to political commentary? Come back to reality, kid.
Then again, the basic look of the Dock is also realizable in XP, so we'll just have to see what future leaks can show us.
P.S. -
Fundamentally, there is no difference between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Oh wait, that's right, Steve Jobs is more of a metrosexual, and has higher-priced products.
Fundamentally, there is no difference between Microsoft (a.k.a. micrapsoft a.k.a. micro$oft) and Apple (a.k.a. creator of holy writ). Oh wait, that's right, Microsoft has MUCH greater market share, and anti-Windows converted professionals are switching to Linux, and totally skipping over Mac OS. Funny that.
Why can you say that Apple innovates more? If it didn't, it would no longer exist. That's how effective the Microsoft machine is.
The only reason those like MacQuest can get away with such one-sided hyperbole is because:
1. Apple has less market share.
2. This is a Mac fansite, ergo, anything which is one-sidedly in favor of Apple can be accepted, yet anything remotely siding with Microsoft is called, as you said yourself, "trolling." I find that peculiar.
Before the advent of Linux, Microsoft had a MUCH better position in the consumer software market than Apple could ever dream of. How?
People may have LIKED Apple because of its much-touted (there's PR for you) stability and better UI (let's assume I agree with you on that one, and I do think Expose is brilliant), but people NEEDED Windows. To draw an exaggerated comparison: you may LIKE Ferraris, but if they could only be driven on roads with names beginning with "R," would you buy it over a Toyota?
P.P.S. - Wow, MacQuest, you sure seem to have an obsessive disrespect for Bill Gates. In fact, you are so fixated on drawing comparisons between him and other great people that what actually comes across is a great deal of respect for the man, in the same way that people respect, yet hate, Adolf (not Adolph) Hitler.
So you say that Microsoft has a great marketing department. Do you think Apple's is nonexistent? For a company with single-digit market share and a percentage of software compatibility also in the single digits, it's sure survived for a long time. Oh yes, that's right, innovation. Well, if you want to just pin it on innovation, name one other company which:
1. operates in a monopoly market basically owned by another company.
2. has had single-digit market share for an extended period of time.
3. is not on the verge of exiting the market.
I mean, if it's just innovation, innovation comes across in every field, so the Apple-Microsoft scenario should repeat itself at least in SOME other market. Come on, I'm just DYING for you to come up with an example.
Oh yes, MacQuest, don't you realize that your commentary is to trolling as Rush Limbaugh is to political commentary? Come back to reality, kid.
my two cents.....
don't underestimate the power of "innovation" as a way of keeping customers. the many, many features of the apple OS (classic and X) that have found there way into windoze is well documented.
on the evils of bill gates (and steve jobs, i'll grant those points), they are many. but ultimatly bill gates and microsoft managed to get the big market share slice (LICENSE YA BLOODY OS STEVE!!). MS' abuse of the market power that their one good business decision yielded them has been breathtaking in its narcissism and mind-boggling in it's self servitude.
ultimatly it is this obvious stifling of innovation and competition that will drive Microsoft under. as more people realise that there is an alternative (be it Mac or Linux) that is both affordable and superior, the M$ juggernaut will run out of steam.
on the whinge about Office somewhere above: i am about to upgrade to G5's and switch BACK to mac from these damnable win98 celerons that i am currently forced to use - i will probably have to shell out $500- to upgrade my os9 orifice to the X version. i resent this. the only reason i will require office at all will be to open the ridiculous number of Word documents that infest my in-box. if i can get Word docs straight into InDesign, i'll spend that $500- on FileMaker 7 (a much more immediatly useful piece of software to me than Office:2004, for the same cost).
The M$ dominance may FORCE me to give M$ more of my hard earned. given i need the Adobe CS to run my biz (newspaper publisher), i don't need anything Office can give me that AppleWorks can't (or ideally, NeoOffice or OpenOffice).
I see Linux taking over the desktop once general computer knowledge in society reaches a certain point. it won't be long, another 10 years tops IMHO. M$ realises this and is trying to lock people into M$ products to protect their "revenue streams". i am sick of being a "revenue stream" for a company whose products i have no NEED (or desire) to USE. i NEED to have them so i can VIEW what other people send me (.pdf is so much nicer)
Linux = Unix
Solaris = Unix
os-x = unix
winXP = not unix........ yet.
sooner or later, Steve will bite the bullet and allow other companies to produce machines that will run os-x (ohh, an os-x, dual opteron, yes please). of this i have no doubt. it may be a while, but i hope it's sooner rather than later.
until then, i will buy a mac (actually am about to buy two). when i need a storage server, i will go to the 'puter fair, buy a bunch of bits (AMD mainboard and chip of course, i dislike Intel almost as much as Microsloft and besides, they are a small company who innovates, the sort of company i have an expensive habit of supporting) and knock up a linux raid array, by then (sometime late next year on current Data-Creation projections), i will have enough linux knowledge and linux will have enough more development to make it a task my meagre computing skills would be able to conquer. as i hire new employees, i buy more macs, for the mo.....
the Linux/Open Source revolution is here. it's gaining momentum. the more M$ tries to kill it or tell people it's crap, the fewer buyers for Longhorn there will be (yay!)
right now - if you can make Windows work for you, goodonyamate, why not. there is some seriously lush gear out there for the windows fraternity, some of which i can't wait to get into my new G5 (yay, no more adc!)
ps - Le Gloupier of Belgium said it best to Bill Gates. he said it with a cream pie.........
don't underestimate the power of "innovation" as a way of keeping customers. the many, many features of the apple OS (classic and X) that have found there way into windoze is well documented.
on the evils of bill gates (and steve jobs, i'll grant those points), they are many. but ultimatly bill gates and microsoft managed to get the big market share slice (LICENSE YA BLOODY OS STEVE!!). MS' abuse of the market power that their one good business decision yielded them has been breathtaking in its narcissism and mind-boggling in it's self servitude.
ultimatly it is this obvious stifling of innovation and competition that will drive Microsoft under. as more people realise that there is an alternative (be it Mac or Linux) that is both affordable and superior, the M$ juggernaut will run out of steam.
on the whinge about Office somewhere above: i am about to upgrade to G5's and switch BACK to mac from these damnable win98 celerons that i am currently forced to use - i will probably have to shell out $500- to upgrade my os9 orifice to the X version. i resent this. the only reason i will require office at all will be to open the ridiculous number of Word documents that infest my in-box. if i can get Word docs straight into InDesign, i'll spend that $500- on FileMaker 7 (a much more immediatly useful piece of software to me than Office:2004, for the same cost).
The M$ dominance may FORCE me to give M$ more of my hard earned. given i need the Adobe CS to run my biz (newspaper publisher), i don't need anything Office can give me that AppleWorks can't (or ideally, NeoOffice or OpenOffice).
I see Linux taking over the desktop once general computer knowledge in society reaches a certain point. it won't be long, another 10 years tops IMHO. M$ realises this and is trying to lock people into M$ products to protect their "revenue streams". i am sick of being a "revenue stream" for a company whose products i have no NEED (or desire) to USE. i NEED to have them so i can VIEW what other people send me (.pdf is so much nicer)
Linux = Unix
Solaris = Unix
os-x = unix
winXP = not unix........ yet.
sooner or later, Steve will bite the bullet and allow other companies to produce machines that will run os-x (ohh, an os-x, dual opteron, yes please). of this i have no doubt. it may be a while, but i hope it's sooner rather than later.
until then, i will buy a mac (actually am about to buy two). when i need a storage server, i will go to the 'puter fair, buy a bunch of bits (AMD mainboard and chip of course, i dislike Intel almost as much as Microsloft and besides, they are a small company who innovates, the sort of company i have an expensive habit of supporting) and knock up a linux raid array, by then (sometime late next year on current Data-Creation projections), i will have enough linux knowledge and linux will have enough more development to make it a task my meagre computing skills would be able to conquer. as i hire new employees, i buy more macs, for the mo.....
the Linux/Open Source revolution is here. it's gaining momentum. the more M$ tries to kill it or tell people it's crap, the fewer buyers for Longhorn there will be (yay!)
right now - if you can make Windows work for you, goodonyamate
, why not. there is some seriously lush gear out there for the windows fraternity, some of which i can't wait to get into my new G5 (yay, no more adc!)ps - Le Gloupier of Belgium said it best to Bill Gates. he said it with a cream pie.........
benpatient said:
Waitaminit! Steve is NO dictator towards the general public, even though he has been a very focused and demanding boss at Apple, almost infamously so in the 1980s. I doubt I could work for him myself (that is, directly in a position of close organizational and physical proximity) but I would have no issues at all going to work for Apple as a support tech or in their marketing department.
Now that I've just put my theoretical career plans out in the public for all to see, how can you even compare Steve and Bill like that? They are not even philosophically close! If they were the same or similar, there's a darned good chance Steve wouldn't have been forced out of Apple and that he would have pushed Apple into a situation similar to where Microsoft is now.
Due try and remember, benpatient, that in the 1980s when all this ruckus started, there was NO DOMINANT PLATFORM out there. In fact, Apple had a tremendously larger market share than Microsoft did for many, many years, lest you forget the venerable Apple ][ platform. Steve had all the opportunity in the world to do what Bill did, and you know what? He didn't choose to. That, to me, speaks volumes about the man.
I don't do office productivity-related tasks. At all. Nada. So, I don't use AppleWorks (nee ClarisWorks), Microsoft Works, or Microsoft Office.
That being said, at work I use Outlook to send email (in Windows 2000, not on a Mac), but not out of choice. Moreover, other than spending time customizing it to not give me custom menus, autocomplete my words and autoformat my text (and turning off a whole host of similar bovine dung), I don't do anything at all with it except send mail.
I am a desktop publisher by trade, sir.
I don't have any need for Windows Picture-mode folders and auto slideshow, nor Apple's iPhoto, because that functionality is not even remotely connected to what I do. That being said, I have played around with both, and I prefer iPhoto's interface, but that's really not a fair comparison of an OS feature vs. a fully-fledged photo album program.
Oh boy, am I gonna get flamed for this one, but what the heck, I'm in for a penny, in for a pound...If you have that many problems with your G5, why haven't you taken it in for service? Surely, something must be wrong with it.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just a software glitch? What was that, you installed something not designed for the hardware or OS version?
If it is that much of a problem, it would mean your productivity was being so negatively affected that you would just get a G4 and use it instead.
And don't even try to lecture to the rest of us about OS X's stability. It runs CIRCLES around anything from Microsoft (with the possible exception of DOS when using all real-mode apps), and it also runs circles around anything prior from Apple.
g4cubed said:
macdong said:
You know, it's funny. Every day that goes by, I wonder if Xwindow looks more like Windows or Windows looks more like Xwindow.
If the folks on this forum really think that looks like Mac OS X, you people need glasses. It looks like something out of KDE or maybe Gnome, not Aqua.
Mike
BTW, regarding what I said earlier about the U.S. paying lip service to Metric System education, I would personally like to start a movement to use Picas and Points as the universal linear measurement system.
For those not conversant in it, let me teach it to you.
1 U.S. inch = 6 picas
1 pica = 12 points
Ergo, 1 U.S. inch = 72 points (using the PostScript standard)
Examples:
But, hey, at least knowing I'm driving 45619200 picas per hour makes it feel faster...
Or maybe not...
For those not conversant in it, let me teach it to you.
1 U.S. inch = 6 picas
1 pica = 12 points
Ergo, 1 U.S. inch = 72 points (using the PostScript standard)
Examples:
Moon's Orbital Average Distance: 250000 mi, or 95040000000 picas
My Height: 6 ft 3 in = 900 picas
My Height: 6 ft 3 in = 900 picas
or
Vehicular Travel - 60 mph = 45619200 PIph
But, hey, at least knowing I'm driving 45619200 picas per hour makes it feel faster...
Or maybe not...
Godwin's Law
It's amazing how consistently this law shows itself to be true...
Godwin's Law:
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely recognised codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
It's amazing how consistently this law shows itself to be true...
Godwin's Law:
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely recognised codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
ARRRGH!!
ARRRRGH, as one who worked in publishing in the bad old days of rubber cement and LetraSet, i say ARRRRGH. No, the horror
points, picas, 'm's & 'n's - get nicked. i still think in point measurement for text sizes, but doubtless my grandkids will talk in mm.
back before my time, typesetting was a SEVEN year apprenticeship. figuring out how to justify a column of text when using little bits of lead, & making a headline fit using different bits of lead, there was a need for these measurements. praise be this is no longer the case.
btw - there is no such thing as a "US Inch", just inches. you get 25.4mm free with every one........ it's not a "PostScript Standard" either, it's the universal printers measure. PostScript merely adopted what was already the practice and standard within the printing industry. and they are used in universal measurement systems, quite commonly, within the printing industry.
arrgh ARRRGH.......
MikeTheC said:BTW, regarding what I said earlier about the U.S. paying lip service to Metric System education, I would personally like to start a movement to use Picas and Points as the universal linear measurement system.
For those not conversant in it, let me teach it to you.
1 U.S. inch = 6 picas
1 pica = 12 points
Ergo, 1 U.S. inch = 72 points (using the PostScript standard)
Examples:
Moon's Orbital Average Distance: 250000 mi, or 95040000000 picas
My Height: 6 ft 3 in = 900 picas
or
Vehicular Travel - 60 mph = 45619200 PIph
But, hey, at least knowing I'm driving 45619200 picas per hour makes it feel faster...
Or maybe not...
ARRRRGH, as one who worked in publishing in the bad old days of rubber cement and LetraSet, i say ARRRRGH. No, the horror
points, picas, 'm's & 'n's - get nicked. i still think in point measurement for text sizes, but doubtless my grandkids will talk in mm.
back before my time, typesetting was a SEVEN year apprenticeship. figuring out how to justify a column of text when using little bits of lead, & making a headline fit using different bits of lead, there was a need for these measurements. praise be this is no longer the case.
btw - there is no such thing as a "US Inch", just inches. you get 25.4mm free with every one........ it's not a "PostScript Standard" either, it's the universal printers measure. PostScript merely adopted what was already the practice and standard within the printing industry. and they are used in universal measurement systems, quite commonly, within the printing industry.
arrgh
ARRRGH.......Microsofts Longhorn... will be another MS OS that they have a hard time selling...(except they will get to use their monopoly power to do just that)
The only reson XP got a foot hold was because MS shoved it down Dell. HP/Compaq, and Gateways throat.... Forcing them to stop offering Win 2k on most of their machines....
And Longhorn will be no exception ....
One can only hope that Linux will make a solid desktop showing by then
Or even better maybe apple will release a PC version of OS X.
The only reson XP got a foot hold was because MS shoved it down Dell. HP/Compaq, and Gateways throat.... Forcing them to stop offering Win 2k on most of their machines....
And Longhorn will be no exception ....
One can only hope that Linux will make a solid desktop showing by then
Or even better maybe apple will release a PC version of OS X.
First off, I would like to say as a Mac and a PC user that both OS' have their advantages and disadvantages.... but given the option I will take Windows XP any day.
You think to youself "Why, that moron must like frequent system crashes and having his machine infected with unwanted spyware/adware/other unwanted software!"
I admit to you that 95% of PC's running Windows out there are pieces of ****. That is because they are manufactured by companies who use the cheapest parts possible to optimize profits.
I own one machine that I built myself with hand-picked parts and one computer built for me by *shudder* Gateway.
The gateway computer frequently is the vitim of complete system crashes and slowdown caused by Adware. That is because ****ty components are used in it.
If any one of you die-hard Mac users had worked with a Windows PC built with high quality components you would know that the issues that many PCs have do not effect ALL PCs.
Another thing is that in WinXP the user has much quicker access to any application they want. In OSX you either have to add the applications link to the dock or the Apple menu.... not so in PC world.
Also in PCs, when you close the window of a program it is CLOSED.... not so in OSX. What purpose is there for the program to be running after all windows of it are closed?
Another disadvantage to running a Mac machine is lack of support for brand new hardware.... I was @ compusa the other day and saw an apple version of the Radeon 9700 pro selling for OVER $550! That card is from 3 generations of video cards ago and it sells for the same price as the top of the line video cards today.
So before you all go out bashing windows and M$ to death I think you should actually attempt to use it on a high quality machine, not one built by a company who's only interest is maximizing profits.
(BTW... my PC has been running 24/7 for the last year and a half with a reboot on average once a week. I run CPU intensive apps constantly [SETI@home, folding etc], work with digital video, and run games occasionnaly and have NEVER encountered a lockup that required a full system reboot.)
You think to youself "Why, that moron must like frequent system crashes and having his machine infected with unwanted spyware/adware/other unwanted software!"
I admit to you that 95% of PC's running Windows out there are pieces of ****. That is because they are manufactured by companies who use the cheapest parts possible to optimize profits.
I own one machine that I built myself with hand-picked parts and one computer built for me by *shudder* Gateway.
The gateway computer frequently is the vitim of complete system crashes and slowdown caused by Adware. That is because ****ty components are used in it.
If any one of you die-hard Mac users had worked with a Windows PC built with high quality components you would know that the issues that many PCs have do not effect ALL PCs.
Another thing is that in WinXP the user has much quicker access to any application they want. In OSX you either have to add the applications link to the dock or the Apple menu.... not so in PC world.
Also in PCs, when you close the window of a program it is CLOSED.... not so in OSX. What purpose is there for the program to be running after all windows of it are closed?
Another disadvantage to running a Mac machine is lack of support for brand new hardware.... I was @ compusa the other day and saw an apple version of the Radeon 9700 pro selling for OVER $550! That card is from 3 generations of video cards ago and it sells for the same price as the top of the line video cards today.
So before you all go out bashing windows and M$ to death I think you should actually attempt to use it on a high quality machine, not one built by a company who's only interest is maximizing profits.
(BTW... my PC has been running 24/7 for the last year and a half with a reboot on average once a week. I run CPU intensive apps constantly [SETI@home, folding etc], work with digital video, and run games occasionnaly and have NEVER encountered a lockup that required a full system reboot.)
zpapasmurf said:
Enough already. I also use both Mac and Wintel. Not everybody likes to build their computers from scratch and so: I own both a Sony Vaio Laptop (Z1) and a Mac Powerbook (G4 12"). I would think one could consider the Sony to be a quality machine (as windows machines go this is the best I have ever used at least). Well: It is affected by all the virii and adware because of its lousy operating system (windows xp). Better than ever before? yes. Better than OSX? hahahahaha. Having the choice to at least use a Mac at home: Priceless! And finally: Being a creative professional I feel that society presents an enigma as to how it puts up with junk for some everyday items while demanding perfection for others (computers vs. cars eg). I hate to say it: But Windows is still something to put up with while MacOS is simply a joy to use. It is the whole experience brought to you by Apple, no additional work needed. And of course: Not perfect, but worlds apart from anything "Longhorn" (which is getting to be long in the tooth.)
zpapasmurf said:
I disagree this.... it is a fudamental security flaw of Microsoft's I.E. and Windows in general......all Windows machines are subject to it ...hardware you use is irrelevent.
I have to give you both of those..... The dock is a piece of junk... Windows start menu is superior...... thats why all x-windows systems do it that way....
And the part about an application not closing when u close its window....is completely annoying.... and its my most hated thing about the OS X gui interface....
Those things being said..... I spend a ton of my time as a UNIX user at the command line..... And any windows version absolutely has nothing to compete there.....
macsrus said:
Actually, I think he meant that people associate the problems of HARDWARE-related crashing to the OS (in mistake).
e.g., poor power supply can mean instability AT ANY TIME (BSODS, hard locks, in any situation, regardless if it is CPU-intensive).
poor cooling? (random restarts, BSODs, random shutdowns if you have the C.O.P. system "CPU Overheating Protection" in place)
Bad memory? (games crash to desktop, system restart at the start of CPU-intensive applications).
These are things most system builders learn as "common knowledge"--and this is why I respect most system builders FAR more than those that don't--you simply learn A TON by doing it. It is simply hilarious when people blame the BSOD's or restarts on Windows XP, when their weak generic power supplies, clearance sticks of RAM, and poorly cooled OEM boxes are the cause for the troubles in the first place.
*In the PC world, component quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, so you never really know. With Apple, on the other hand, the environment is much more strictly controlled (and eliminates the generic component factor in the first place)
Mav451 said:
No argument from me there....
My statment about hardware being irrelevent was related to him saying Adware caused his gateway crashed because it had junky hardware.... which is bull.....
I use PCs and Macs extensively.......
The biggest advantage Apple has is They build both the OS and the Box to run it on..... therefore its easier to support for them.
Windows has to run on freaking everything..... very hard to support every piece of PC hardware out there....
That being said... I still think Apple could do a better job of it than Microsoft Does.... If OSX was ported to the PC it would gain 50% market share in 3 to 5 years...
Mav451 said:
True But the hardware support is already their for the most part.... In the MACH kernel......
And since MACH is open source development to get added Hardware support comes very easy