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mdatwood

macrumors 6502a
Mar 14, 2010
828
710
East Coast, USA
microsoft's developer tools are a lot better and more mature than Apple's. they will let you write C code from VS so they won't lose any devs. all the middle tier environments are about saving developers money. Apple is crazy about taking that away since it will increase development time and financial risk and drive devs to android

Apple is a control freak company. Nothing is impossible, but I would be completely floored if they gave up control of the development tools. Plus, what makes VS so good is language integration, particular with the .net managed languages. I doubt we're going to see c# on the iPhone and even if we did see an IronObj-C it would require the .net runtime on the iPhone.

So one of the languages in Visual Studio is C++ and I think you can compile C as well so I don't see how an announcement like this would break with the new iPhone Developer Agreement.

MSC will compile both C/C++ to x86/x86-64 and a few others, but MS is currently pushing all their tools to compile to the .net runtime IL. Look at all the Iron* languages that are available now for the .net platform. If this were really going to happen, MS would be pushing Apple to bring the .net runtime onto the iPhone where the entire MS system would be available (managed c++/c#/vb.net/f#/IronRuby/IronPython/etc...).
 

Thunderbird

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2005
943
783
It will be like this:

Jobs: "Hi, I'm a Mac"
Balmer: "And I'm a PC".

You all know the rest....:)
 

mcmlxix

macrumors 6502a
Mar 10, 2009
516
1
Yes. They need to learn to programme. Then they can write applications.

I’d agree that programming teaches you how to think and to write better applications.

When I first learned programming in 1985-86 (10th grade), first they taught us how to read existing code, then how to discern an outlines/routines for that code, then to analyze that code for efficiencies and deficiencies, then how to outline our intended application, and finally how to code for that outline.

We also had to write out our code (yes with pencil and paper) and submit it for peer review before we could get lab time with the precious handful of Apple ][s.
 

macsmurf

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2007
1,200
948
Apple is a control freak company. Nothing is impossible, but I would be completely floored if they gave up control of the development tools. Plus, what makes VS so good is language integration, particular with the .net managed languages. I doubt we're going to see c# on the iPhone and even if we did see an IronObj-C it would require the .net runtime on the iPhone.

C# is already on the iPhone. Novell sells a product called MonoTouch for this purpose.

Unfortunately, due to the changes in the SDK agreement, developers would risk a great deal by using it.

I think Google is very appreciative of all the great developers and products that Apple sends their way. Don't say Apple never did anything for them :)
 

bleaknik

macrumors newbie
Mar 6, 2009
17
6
Visual Studio for Mac

Didn't say "VS for Mac". Rather, it was VS creating apps for Mac but writing it all in Windows. I don't see VS running on a Mac.

I dunno. VS.NET 2010 is built around WPF. Microsoft has been very happily supporting OS X with Silverlight, which is really a subset of WPF. The two technologies are becoming closer and closer in line with one another, it may not be so far fetched.
 

makowb

macrumors member
Jan 27, 2008
91
1
Doesn't anyone read these forums i've posted the answer three times now....this is what its about

http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft-worked-with-Apple-for-Silverlight-on-iPhone-says-Goldfarb/1259185079

Sorry bud, that's old news. If you didn't notice the date. They never once mention silverlight being used as a plug-in, a la flash, but silverlight being reworked to be a server-side video delivery mechanism. If you want to see how it works, go here (as linked in the article) on your iphone:

http://www.iis.net/iphone

It's not what you think it is, basically just them following web standards and HTML5 with a little server-side magic.
 

halledise

macrumors 65816
Ballmer's Script revealed

Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers Developers :D
 

Mebsat

macrumors regular
May 19, 2003
210
341
Florida
Couldn't this all be an internally driven shift?

MS has moved the Mac Business Unit into the regular Office development department. Announcing Obj-C support in VStudio would be a big plus for cross-platform Office development/compatibility just within MS.

Apple would probably not be too excited to give them stage time if Obj-C was not supported, right?

Even though it wouldn't violate the existing dev agreement to just make it compile for OSX, I can't see Apple spotlighting it at WWDC outside of:
"Here's Office 2010, developed on a PC...feature equal, blah, blah"

Unless Apple is that nervous about FTC attention...
 

50548

Guest
Apr 17, 2005
5,039
2
Currently in Switzerland
Posted by BR Lawyer yesterday (on news of Apple surpassing MS market cap):

Yesterday, 06:30 PM #8
BRLawyer
macrumors 68020



Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Currently in Switzerland
So who's got the last laugh now, Winblows droids? Have you got enough crow? I have been saying this for a LONG time, that Apple would surpass MS SOONER than later!

So now is the perfect occasion for all MS fanboys to stop infesting this forum and spreading their FUD.

MS IS DEAD. AND SO IS GOOGLE.

Sent from my wonderful iPad!

P.s.: Tks for the news, Apple; today is my B-day..!


Wow :D

Am I great or what? :D One BRLawyer a day keeps the blues away :D
 

Nicolas Cage

macrumors newbie
Apr 28, 2010
13
0
Webkit is (and always has been) written in cross platform C++. Certainly, Webkit could be considered "most of safari".

However, the user interface parts of Safari are still a pretty big chunk of code, and that code is written in Cocoa. To run on Windows, Safari uses a Windows port of several core Cocoa frameworks. If you don't believe me, just take a look at the DLLs that ship with Windows Safari.
It includes CF and CoreGraphics ports if I recall correctly, but neither of those are Cocoa. There's no ObjC code in Safari for Windows.



While XCode is improving, it still lacks and doesn't contain functionality that I'd expect from a modern IDE. For example, you can't debug Unit Tests without going through hoops in XCode, yet, for a looooooong time, this has been possible in other IDEs, such as Eclipse.

Anyone who has used Eclipse can tell you what XCode lacks. XCode isn't that stable either - I regularly get errors and asked if I want to exit XCode.
...
XCode does the job - but could be a lot better.
Wait a week ;)
 

brasscat

macrumors 6502
Jun 9, 2007
336
0
Dallas, Texas
There are so many problems with this rumor.

First, Jobs has spent the last 20+ years jabbing Ballmer, and more recently jabbing his ineptness as a salesman in charge of a tech company. I'm sure Ballmer has heard these criticisms.

MS Developers would have to scream at Microsoft to include iPhone development support before they would include it. But why would they when it's FREE in XCode?

Microsoft couldn't accomplish this without Apple's help. Apple would have to provide the base firmware and documentation of such so that MS could include a decent debugger in VS worth anything.

.Net technology will never run on iPhone, just like Flash and Java will never. So MS would have to build a unique compiler just for iPhone development into VS. But build a compiler for what chipset? Apple can change the baseline SoC anytime, breaking whatever VS would supposedly be compatible with.

VS is an IDE with MS-based window elements -- these do not look like or operate like iPhone OS window elements. VS would now have to support a completely different set of window elements. New elements would require new touch-friendly attributes and methods as well.

Back on the compiler; Building a bug free compiler would takes years and be a huge investment for MS to endeavor -- especially for a competing platform. Ballmer would never approve it.

And from a business position, do you really think MS is going to build all this technology into their VS IDE, which is a pay-for program, to compete against their competitors freely available IDE? Nothing about this rumor makes sense.

Also, why would anyone actually use the VS IDE for iPhone development, when the one from Apple is going to be updated more often with the latest features? VS would have to have a release schedule months trailing XCode, which makes it overall VS-for-iPhone really inferior for keeping apps up to date.

This rumor has already played itself out as a hoax, and it should have been a ridiculously obvious one to any developer with a half brain towards business. If a Microsoft rep takes the stage June 7th, it will be for new something along the line of new apps or increased compatibility with Office... not for native support in VS for iPhone development.
 

Mr. Retrofire

macrumors 603
Mar 2, 2010
5,050
494
www.emiliana.cl/en
Sheesh, I'm feeling old!
I guess I am the only one that remembers, though I didn't actually use the functionality, that Microsoft dev tools have targeted Mac before. Visual C++ 2.x could target 68000, and 4.2 could do PPC.

Welcome back to the early to mid 90's !

Andy
They compiled their MS Office for Mac applications with their own VC++ compiler. At least the PowerPC versions.
 

christian_k

macrumors 6502
May 31, 2005
332
9
Germany
There have always been whispers (albeit quiet) Yellow Box lives as a secret project. This may be less credible if their wasn't a precedent. Everyone had assumed Apple/NeXT had forgotten all about the NeXTSTEP version which compiled for x86. That was until about 5 years ago.

I don't think Yellow Box would be very useful for such a tool.

If Microsoft and Apple (maybe in cooperation) really release Visual Studio (on Windows) with iPhone OS support as a target, they would likely include an iPhone Simulator for Windows similar to that on OSX. But the simulator is a well defined enviroment and does not to be integrated well with the rest of Windows so probably a virtual machine that runs an actual iPhone OS (maybe compiled for Intel) is a better solution than Yellow Box. It would be closer to the real device.
The other potential use would be development of Mac applications using VS on a Windows PC. You could use Yellow Box to test them on the PC. I don't think that makes much sense because you probably need a real Mac as a reference anyway, at least if you are doing anything beyond very basic GUI applications. Since the Mac is not an embeded platform it makes more sense to develop its native applications on itself than to use cross development tools.

I think there is some small "Yellow Box" used by Apple for iTunes and Safari on Windows. Maybe Apple could open this as a cross platform library to other developers, but I think it would only be a limited subset of the actual OSX functionality.

Christian
 
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