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Nick05

macrumors regular
Aug 5, 2011
108
149
Florida
I can see how people feel more productive but... are they, really?

In places where I need productivity I always have a much, much better device with me, like a laptop. If I have to do light stuff while laying on the sofa, I have an iPad. For those saying ”then you don’t need two devices”: this has the screen area of an iPad mini, and you can’t even go full screen (technically it’s possible, but you know...). If I‘m on the go and I have to check an email, it’s far more easy and faster on an iPhone: I don’t have to open it, it’s too wide to use it one handed, etc.

When you think in specific day to day situations, and not in abstract use cases, this is worse than any competitor device in 99% of the time. In productivity environments, too.
This is also the way I see it. Some things are too much of a compromise and while it may seem like it has a place, it doesn’t really seem to add value in the end. Of course, this is different for different people and the way they work, but this is one of those devices that seems to big to be a phone and too small to be much use for more. Previously, I traveled often for work and spent most of my time going to meetings in conference rooms. I was always looking for something light, portable, that could do everything I needed. At the time, the iPad Air2 ended up being the device I found worked best for meetings after trying the Surface, other windows tablets, laptops, and the laptop was my primary device. I think the new iPad Pro with keyboard cover and trackpad would be my choice if I were still doing that worK.
 

szw-mapple fan

macrumors 68040
Jul 28, 2012
3,453
4,299
Poor camera, buggy software, no NFC. In short, it's great except for A, B, and C, where A, B, and C are the most used and important features found in a smartphone.

Poor camera might even be an understatement. It’s basically a glorified webcam.
 

jlocker

macrumors 65816
Jun 20, 2011
1,022
1,194
Lake Michigan
I am sure their are people out that love all Microsoft products like we do with Apple products. I remember working at GM as their first Microcomputer engineer. We had both Macs and Microsoft DOS Machines. Remember this new guy who was a PC guy threw and threw. Windows 1.0 had come out and he wanted to me to see how cool it was. I was taking care of Macs more. He said hey look at this cool feature when you are in the middle of using word and the system Crashes it brings up doctor Watson with the error code so you can call Microsoft, but you lose all your work. Like Doctor evil I Said Rrightttt!
 

matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
4,891
This is something I would definitely look at. Sort of like an electronic "book"

An electronic organizer. I like this form factor. Wouldn’t buy it as a phone though. It should be one form of an iPad. iPad Book maybe? This thing will make or break with software which I’ll trust Apple more than Microsoft.

But the bezel in the middle has to be non-existent, for movie watching.
 
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otternonsense

Suspended
Jul 25, 2016
2,213
6,303
Berlin
The notch houses FaceID tech that hasn’t been matched in other phones. ARkit is the basis of Apple glass and VR. Many TV+ shows have critical acclaim and the service isn’t a year old. You shouldn’t dismiss how the Apple Silicon in iPhones have become powerful enough to run desktops because you don’t like Jennifer Anniston

A better question is why Microsoft is using Android when they’ve been trying to convince us for the past 7 years that Windows was perfect for tablets.

- Notch and FaceID: great argument for 2017! Also, a total nuisance now that we're all wearing masks, and users would still appreciate the return of fingerprint authentication. Three years is a geological period in tech, and Apple could take even a little bit of effort to house this component differently.

- ARkit, apple glass and VR: count the people that care

- I don't conflate Apple silicon with Jennifer Anniston's silicone. I just don't find the investment in streaming TV to be on par with the ROI from devices & software. The CPUs are great, how about the rest?

- Apple has also been trying to convince us that the iPad wasn't meant to be a laptop replacement but here we are now. Companies pivot as they see fit.
 
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Mahasamatman

macrumors member
Sep 26, 2017
97
82
Felt sorry for this guy, amount of bugs in the software. ???‍♂️

I think he did a pretty good job all round of that unboxing. It actually looks better than I expected but the software lets it down. And what about what he had to do to take a photograph?
 
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StevieD100

macrumors 6502a
Jan 18, 2014
732
1,148
Living Dangerously in Retirement
At least MS is innovating, not pumping out same designs.
Throwing dog poo at a wall will usually result in some sticking. The resulting mess will certainly be smelly and memorable.

If you are going to criticise Apple for not innovating then the least you could do is supply some of the alternatives that would make you happy.
For millions of users, a phone and a tablet are tools and not just fashion symbols. I like good design but TBH, I'm more concerned about the usability and my use case than anything. When I'm working with wood, I still use my Grandfather's block plane that dates from 1921. It might not be fashionable, powered by electricity or gas but it sure works well.
 
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otternonsense

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Jul 25, 2016
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Throwing dog poo at a wall will usually result in some sticking. The resulting mess will certainly be smelly and memorable.

If you are going to criticise Apple for not innovating then the least you could do is supply some of the alternatives that would make you happy.
For millions of users, a phone and a tablet are tools and not just fashion symbols. I like good design but TBH, I'm more concerned about the usability and my use case than anything. When I'm working with wood, I still use my Grandfather's block plane that dates from 1921. It might not be fashionable, powered by electricity or gas but it sure works well.

Yea, ok, I'm sure a bunch of people on the early internet supplied Steve Jobs with some alternatives that would make them happy, and that's exactly what he did and how he innovated.

Also, as far as anyone was concerned, people didn't mind carrying around a walkman or discman either before the iPod was a thing.

So please don't relativise. Good for you if you want to use a gramophone, but that's just you, and Apple has been known to, you know, innovate every now and then. In fact, it was Apple's keynotes that were the talk of the town not too long ago. They didn't become known for providing fan service, but actually producing new and cool stuff in short increments. Now that they're richer and more powerful than ever, they're taking decisions that seem to be based on neither of the two.
 

jlocker

macrumors 65816
Jun 20, 2011
1,022
1,194
Lake Michigan
1599825247818.jpeg


Remember I had a nokia n-gage phone. It was not a good phone or a portable gaming system. I took it back to gamestop the next day. What might seem like innovation can go horribly wrong.
 
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otternonsense

Suspended
Jul 25, 2016
2,213
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Berlin
View attachment 951962

Remember I had a nokia n-gage phone. It was not a good phone or a portable gaming system. I took it back to gamestop the next day. What might seem like innovation can go horribly wrong.

I believe the n-gage was a perfect example of corporate board groupthink "innovation by committee", rather than well researched innovation by an R&D team of designers and engineers, or a visionary endeavour by a product-minded leader (like e.g. Steve) in charge of a team of designers & engineers.

Nokia produced some fantastic designs, this was a useless gimmick because they wanted to jump on the gaming bandwagon. Sort of like jumping the bandwagon of making your own streaming TV shows...
 
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Romeo_Nightfall

macrumors 65816
Aug 8, 2018
1,004
881
Vienna
Really interesting piece of tech and amazingly engineered hardware, if MKBHD is to be believed. I wouldn't be an early adopter for sure, but I'm curious how it will evolve.

I wish Apple could also take some bold new hardware/software direction instead of 3 year old notches, AR gimmicks, Memoji and sh!tty TV shows.

haha, one of the biggest liars on YouTube is your reference for hw design - just look at that bezels!
 
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Romeo_Nightfall

macrumors 65816
Aug 8, 2018
1,004
881
Vienna
This is something I would definitely look at. Sort of like an electronic "book". The phone functions would be an added feature. It wouldn't work for videos too well. And this is obviously simpler to make than those single screen units. $1400 is a deal breaker, though. More like half that to sell me.

i don’t wanna be your eyes if you torture them with such a thing - there’s something called kindle!
 

otternonsense

Suspended
Jul 25, 2016
2,213
6,303
Berlin
haha, one of the biggest liars on YouTube is your reference for hw design - just look at that bezels!

How was he a liar when he said the hardware design, thinness, hinge mechanism etc. are fantastic in engineering and execution? It's clearly a very gen 1 (if not gen 0) product. I don't like the bezels either. But I'm very curious how it will evolve.
 

Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,456
21,842
Singapore
At least MS is innovating, not pumping out same designs.

Yeah. Microsoft has innovated so much that they have essentially recreated the iPad mini, except the iPad mini still has better performance, better ecosystem, better app support and a larger screen. And costs $1000 less.

But hey, the surface duo folds. I recall Macrumours making a huge deal out of this when the Galaxy Fold was announced last year, for all the good it would do the phone subsequently.
 
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Abazigal

Contributor
Jul 18, 2011
19,456
21,842
Singapore
How was he a liar when he said the hardware design, thinness, hinge mechanism etc. are fantastic in engineering and execution? It's clearly a very gen 1 (if not gen 0) product. I don't like the bezels either. But I'm very curious how it will evolve.

That’s the common theme I seem to be seeing with regards to Surface Duo reviews. It’s flawed, and they are all looking forward to the second gen.

This feels like a safe answer. No one is going to get fired or castigated for saying “I am looking forward to the next revision”, nor will they lose early access to future Microsoft products, because it’s clear how flawed the first gen is, and there is only so much you can try to hype up without losing all your credibility.

People are basically grading Microsoft on a curve, as they are wont to do with all Apple competitors.
 

AppleTO

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2018
908
2,343
Toronto, Canada
I may have given this a shot of it ran Windows on ARM. But it runs Android for some reason... so I don’t really have a use for it.
 

jlocker

macrumors 65816
Jun 20, 2011
1,022
1,194
Lake Michigan
That’s the common theme I seem to be seeing with regards to Surface Duo reviews. It’s flawed, and they are all looking forward to the second gen.

This feels like a safe answer. No one is going to get fired or castigated for saying “I am looking forward to the next revision”, nor will they lose early access to future Microsoft products, because it’s clear how flawed the first gen is, and there is only so much you can try to hype up without losing all your credibility.

People are basically grading Microsoft on a curve, as they are wont to do with all Apple competitors.

Being $1200 dollars for a phone and saying I can not wait for the second generation phone is like buying a 2020 car for $60000 and saying I can not wait for the 2021 model it is going to be much better than this POS I have now :)
 

ArPe

macrumors 65816
May 31, 2020
1,281
3,325
As nobody has mentioned it yet, this product was derived from the Microsoft Courier project over a decade ago. It was supposed to be pen and gesture driven and running on top of Microsoft’s own operating system, but that went nowhere and most people prefer keyboard to pens for text entry.
 
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