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Your article mentions the "human life-energy field".
and "Nazis", in the first paragraph, yet, in Red.

From a quick reading, the article throws around pseudo scientific language without regard to whether it is pertinent or not.

"microwave burns to arms and hands while stirring" - sure -- if you defeat the interlock on the door and stick your arm in while it is running.

"Natural repair mechanisms are suppressed" "aerobic to anerobic" "weakening cell membranes" - describes what happens to living cells when exposed to microwaves. I try to ensure that most of my food is not living before I cook it. But hey, it makes for a better article because its scary language and people might assume it refers to them.

"the process of radiation" - umm, yes. Radiation sounds scary doesn't it. Too bad your screen delivers the image of MacRumors to your eyes through the process of radiation, too.

One paragraph is devoted to burns people get when they touch hot food that comes out of a microwave :rolleyes:

In short; the worst kind of propaganda, high on the frightening language, mostly irrelevant to the thesis, absolutely devoid of references, and logically inconsistent.
 
They most definitly kill a lot of the nutritional value in food though.
Mm hmm. That's what I've been told, too. It makes sense to me. Cooking, in general, seems to break down a lot of the nutritional value of foods (minerals and vitamins), but especially in microwaves.

*shrug* I doubt microwaves are all that dangerous. And there's no way I'm giving mine up. I'm useless in the whole "cooking" dept. :eek:
 
Actually, the particular types of microwaves microwave ovens use can be harmful, but it's contained within the unit itself, posing no health risk.

The only potential problem could be if your microwave oven was leaking.

For LethalWolfe and EricNau: Basically the reason microwave radiation would be dangerous outside of the microwave, and it shouldn't leave the microwave, is because it can cook your skin. Pretty simple. There isn't a whole lot of difference between your hand and the chicken wings you're warming up in the microwave.

At high power, the microwave could burn your skin, yes, but it won't give you cancer, make you infertile, impotent and give you Alzheimer's. Lots of exposure to UV, gamma radiation and x-rays can, however. Ionizing radiation like this is also the cause of radiation poisoning (which you can't get from microwaves or radio waves).

The thing is, the same sort of people (based on my experience) who are scared of their microwave run to the doctor when they hit their head and get a CAT scan or hit their hand and get an x-ray. That's much more risky than warming up your mac n cheese.

As to the weapons mentioned above: as stated before they work by making your outer layers of skin warm. They're being considered as a form of non-lethal weaponry...think long-range tasers.
 
As a trained scientist, I find the original report highly questionable. They make multiple claims that may sound likely, but they cite NOTHING. If the article doesn't come from a scientifically reputable journal, they better back up everything they say with established research, which they haven't done. I found a report by the Hong Kong government that summarizes the available peer reviewed literature pretty well and the real research shows that there isn't any evidence of bad effects from microwaves (although the blurb about contaminants from plastic packaging leaching into microwaved food is right. I've read papers on this myself). This is probably going to be far more trustworthy than some wacko new age medicine web site since the papers the Hong Kong reviewer cites (versus no citations for the new age site) actually come from scientifically established and credible sources (numbers after sentences refer to the references)

Risk Assessment Studies Report No. 19: Microwave Cooking and Safety
June 2005 Food and Environmental Hygiene Department The Government of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
http://www.fehd.gov.hk/safefood/report/microwave/microwave_ra_e.pdf

CHEMICAL RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH MICROWAVE COOKING
16. Cooking processes, especially the high temperature ones (e.g. grilling, baking, etc.) are known to induce the production of potential carcinogens. There have been concerns that microwave cooking may also increase the production of carcinogens or mutagens in foods.
17. Currently there is no scientific evidence that the production of any carcinogenic substances would increase upon the application of microwave heating. A study examined mutagen production in cooked lamb and beef found no evidence of mutagenicity in microwave-cooked lamb chops, sirloin steak, leg of lamb or rolled beef loaf9. Results of another study also indicated no adverse

effects of diets cooked by microwaves compared with those cooked conventionally when fed to rats10.
18. Of the carcinogens, the formation of the chemicals heterocyclic amines (HCAs), polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and nitrosamines are of particular concern. Many studies have been conducted to compare the effect of microwave cooking with other conventional methods on the formation of these chemicals and their findings are summarised below –
Heterocyclic amines (HCAs)
19. HCAs are a group of compounds that are present in cooked muscle meat after high-temperature cooking such as grilling / barbecuing, broiling or pan-frying. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) of the World Health Organization has classified one of the HCAs, 2-amino-3-methylimidzo[4,5-f]quinoline, as probable human carcinogen (Group 2A)11 and comprehensively genotoxic whereas nine other HCAs as possible human carcinogens (Group 2B). Negligible amounts of HCAs are formed when meats are cooked at or below 100oC and with shorter cooking time12. Hence, cooking methods like microwaving and boiling can result in food with lesser amounts of HCAs. A study found that the formation of certain types of HCAs in chicken legs could be reduced by microwave cooking when compared with frying13. Also, precook meat in microwave oven before barbecuing would significantly reduce the formation of HCAs1,14. Another study also found that compared with non-microwaved beef patties fried under identical conditions, the amount of selected HCAs decreased three- to nine-fold after microwave pretreatment15.

Polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)
20. PAHs refer to a large group of organic chemicals containing two or more fused aromatic rings made up of carbon and hydrogen atoms. It is generally considered that incomplete combustion is involved during the formation of PAHs. Food processing or cooking steps such as roasting, grilling, barbecuing and smoking generate PAHs and increase the level of PAHs in the food being cooked16. Charred food of almost any composition contains PAHs17 while only very low level of PAHs was detected when food was cooked by some cooking steps such as steaming and microwave cooking. A study found that significant amount of PAHs was formed when beef cooked in corn oil by conventional frying and reheating whereas negligible amount was formed when cooked by microwave cooking and reheating1.
Nitrosamines
21. Nitrosamines are formed by a reaction between a nitrosating agent (e.g. nitrites) and a secondary or tertiary amine. The reaction may take place in certain types of foods as a result of curing, drying or cooking18. The most common and studied nitrosamine, N-nitrosdimethylamine (or dimethylnitrosoamine, or NDMA), has been classified as a probable human carcinogen (Group 2A) by IARC19. A study found that microwave cooked bacon samples gave significantly lower levels of nitrosamines than fried samples1. Results of another study revealed that cooking of dried seafood products using indirect heating such as microwave cooking and steaming caused less increase in NDMA, as compared with direct heating such as a gas range20.

22. In conclusion, microwave cooking did not produce significant amount of HCAs, nitrosamines or PAHs in meat products. The use of microwave cooking to precook meats before grilling or barbecuing has in fact been recommended so as to minimise the formation of HCAs and PAHs. It is probably due to the lower cooking temperature (temperature of microwave cooking normally would not exceed 100oC) and shorter cooking time of microwave cooking.
23. It has also been alleged that other chemicals may be formed as a result of microwave cooking. However, their associations with microwave cooking have not been documented scientifically.

References
1 Hill, A and ILSI Europe Microwave Oven Task Force. Microwave Ovens. Brussels: ILSI Europe; 1998.
2 Decareau, R.V. Chapter one: History of the microwave oven. In: Microwave foods: new product development. Trumbull: Food & Nutrition Press, Inc.; 1992. p.1-46.
3 Health Canada. Radiation safety of microwave ovens. Available from: URL: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/iyh/products/micro_ovens.html
4 Mullin J. Microwave processing. In: Gould, GW, editor. New methods of food preservation. London: Chapman& Hill; 1995. p. 112-134.
5 Ohlsson, T. Domestic use of microwave ovens. In: Macrae R, Robinson, RK and Sadler, MJ, editors. Encyclopaedia of food science food technology and nutrition. Vol. 2. London: Academic Press; 1993. p. 1232-1237.
6 Center for devices and radiological Health. Microwave oven radiation. U.S. Food and Drug Administration; 2000. [cited 04 Aug 17] Available from: URL: http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/microwave.html
7 Buffler, CR. Microwave cooking and processing: engineering fundamentals for the food scientist. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold; 1993.
8 Singh, RP and Heldman, DR. Introduction to Food Engineering. San Diego: Academic Press, Inc.; 1993.
9 Barrington, PJ et al. Mutagenicity of basic fractions derived from lamb and beef cooked by common household methods. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1990; 28(3): 141-6.
10 Jonker, D and Til, HP. Human diets cooked by microwave or conventionally: comparative sub-chronic (13-wk) toxicity study in rats. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1995; 33(4): 245-256.
11 IARC. IQ (2-Amino-3-methlyimidazo[4,5-f]quinoline): Vol. 56. France: IARC 1993. [cited 2003 Oct 31] Available from: URL: http://monographs.iarc.fr/htdocs/monographs/vol56/05-iq.htm
12 National Cancer Institute. Cancer facts – heterocyclic amines in cooked meats. National Cancer Institute; 1996. [cited 2003 Nov 3] Available from: http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/3_25.htm
13 Chiu CP, Yang DY and Chen BH. Formation of heterocyclic amines in cooked chicken legs. Journal of Food Protection 1998; 61(6): 712-9.
14 Skog K and Solyakov A. Heterocyclic amines in poultry products: a literature review. Food and Chemical Toxicology 2002; 40: 1213-1221.
15 Felton JS, Fultz E, Dolbeare FA and Knize MG. Effect of microwave pretreatment on heterocyclic aromatic amine mutagens/carcinogens in fried beef patties. Food Chemical Toxicology 1994; 32(10); 897-903.
16 Scientific Committee on Foods of EC (SCF). Opinion of the Scientific Committee on Food in the risk to human health of PAHs in food. Brussels: SCF; 2002.
17 Phillips DH. PAHs in the diet. Mutation Research 1999; 443:139-47.
18 Scanlan RA. Nitrosamine. In: Macrae R, Robinson, RK and Sadler, MJ, editors. Encyclopaedia of food science food technology and nutrition. Vol. 5. London: Academic Press; 1993. p.3245-49.
19 IARC. N-nitrosodimethylamine: Vol. 17. France: IARC 1978. [cited 2004 Oct 3] Available from: URL: http://www-cie.iarc.fr/htdocs/monographs/vol17/n-nitrosodimethylamine.html
20 Lee SJ, Shin JH, Sung NJ, Kim JG, Hotchkiss JH. Effect of cooking on the formation of N-nitrosodimethylamine in Korean dried seafood products. Food Additives and Contaminants 2003; 20(1): 31-6.
 
Microwave ovens really are bad for your health. I know from personal experience that after eating microwaved foods, or standing close to a microwave I feel less alert, and sometimes actually ill.

Microwaves also change food - changes in the way it looks, the texture, the smell, the taste. I, for one, can tell the difference between food that's been microwaved and food that's been heated in an oven.

Oh, I know that everyone is bombarded by radio waves of all sorts all the time, but microwaves are a particularly concentrated source.

Check this out and see the evidence for yourself. As for me, I avoid eating microwaved food and being in the vicinity of a microwave. It may be overly cautious, but I'd rather avoid them than learn later, the hard way, that microwaves do actually cause harm.

That site is full of run-of-the-mill quackery:

http://www.tuberose.com/Mercury_Vapor_Video.html

They're almost 100% full of ****, and they're selling $100s worth of ******** "detox" crap through their Yahoo! store.

They're scumbag con artists feeding on people's ignorance of science and distrust of technology. I'd like to punch them in the face.

edit: this sums it up nicely:
The requested URL /cgi-bin/The_Scientific_Case_Against_Amalgam.pdf was not found on this server.

I wonder why?
 
Mm hmm. That's what I've been told, too. It makes sense to me. Cooking, in general, seems to break down a lot of the nutritional value of foods (minerals and vitamins), but especially in microwaves.

*shrug* I doubt microwaves are all that dangerous. And there's no way I'm giving mine up. I'm useless in the whole "cooking" dept. :eek:

This article would seem to counter that idea, but I'm not at school right now so I don't have access to the right journal archive sites to pull it up, and my VPN setup is busticated. Doh!

I think that the fact that cooking destroys many of the proteins, enzymes and other nutrients that you'd get in raw food is one of the reasons people become raw-foodists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_foodism

Don't think I could deal with that.
 
Basically, what my last post is saying is that high temperature cooking can create carcinogens (cancer causing substances) because you give the molecules in your food lots of energy to rearrange into weird new combinations. This means that BAKING, DEEP FRYING, BARBEQUING, and other high temp cooking can be bad for you. Microwaving food is low temp cooking and it can actually REDUCE your carcinogen exposure if you use it instead of a high temp cooking technique.
 
Yes, it is true that the article I linked to is a bit new-agey. But that doesn't negate the fact that the safety of the microwave is in question, as much as the appliance manufacturers would like to pretend it isn't.

If the microwave was really entirely safe, doesn't it seem a bit strange that the Soviet Union banned microwaves in 1976? (Albeit, the ban was later lifted.)

Anyone at all familiar with the slew of prescription drugs at first touted as safe, and later recalled when problems were discovered, should be aware that not everything the FDA or HC or whatever agency is responsible for such things in your country approves is therefore safe.
 
Any "article" that talks about the Nazis trying to develop something in order to make it seems more sinister really loses credibility in my eyes.

Germany did try to develop a sterilization procedure using, I believe, x-rays. The idea was that rather than slaughtering Jews in wholesale lots they would merely use a device to kill off their capacity to reproduce; the device was to be hidden behind a counter so that the victims would be unaware of its presence. IIRC, the device was ineffective because lower levels of radiation required an inordinate amount of time for exposure (too long at the counter), while higher levels produced severe surface burns but did not sterilize the victim.

I'm throwing this out from memory, but I will happily provide source material for anyone who requests it.
 
For LethalWolfe and EricNau: Basically the reason microwave radiation would be dangerous outside of the microwave, and it shouldn't leave the microwave, is because it can cook your skin. Pretty simple. There isn't a whole lot of difference between your hand and the chicken wings you're warming up in the microwave.

At high power, the microwave could burn your skin, yes, but it won't give you cancer, make you infertile, impotent and give you Alzheimer's. Lots of exposure to UV, gamma radiation and x-rays can, however. Ionizing radiation like this is also the cause of radiation poisoning (which you can't get from microwaves or radio waves). ...
Well, I'd consider cooking yourself pretty harmful, which was my point. I was never trying to suggest that microwaves could cause any other injuries like you mentioned above.

That said, I use my microwave oven every day and never give it a second thought because the chance of significant microwave leakage is extremely minimal (which is the only real threat). Plus, if my skin started to tingle every time I used the microwave, I think I'd buy a new one. I should also mention that I hold a cell phone inches away from my brain every day (which is essentially the same thing).


I think we're on the same wavelength. ;)
 
Yes, it is true that the article I linked to is a bit new-agey. But that doesn't negate the fact that the safety of the microwave is in question, as much as the appliance manufacturers would like to pretend it isn't.

The safety of microwave food is in question just as heliocentricity is in question.

If the microwave was really entirely safe, doesn't it seem a bit strange that the Soviet Union banned microwaves in 1976? (Albeit, the ban was later lifted.)

Anyone at all familiar with the slew of prescription drugs at first touted as safe, and later recalled when problems were discovered, should be aware that not everything the FDA or HC or whatever agency is responsible for such things in your country approves is therefore safe.

You're feeding off the uncertainty that comes with misunderstood science. The FDA misses some things but by and large we're well served by the agency. University studies would have uncovered dangerous conditions of microwaved food quite some time ago. Microwave ovens and convection ovens and charcoal fires heat food. It's two different uses of energy to create the same effect. Microwaves are pretty timid devices.

Could you start a thread on how aspartame gives you brain cancer too?
 
Germany did try to develop a sterilization procedure using, I believe, x-rays. The idea was that rather than slaughtering Jews in wholesale lots they would merely use a device to kill off their capacity to reproduce; the device was to be hidden behind a counter so that the victims would be unaware of its presence. IIRC, the device was ineffective because lower levels of radiation required an inordinate amount of time for exposure (too long at the counter), while higher levels produced severe surface burns but did not sterilize the victim.

I'm throwing this out from memory, but I will happily provide source material for anyone who requests it.

Yes, but this article says the Nazis developed it... to cook food! How sinister. But the preparing food part isn't in red, the "NAZIS DID IT! part is.
 
Yes, but this article says the Nazis developed it... to cook food! How sinister. But the preparing food part isn't in red, the "NAZIS DID IT! part is.

oh sure...I know nothing about the microwave oven thing, merely commenting about Nazi experimentation/sterilization. :)

Though it seems unlikely a person could be sterilized with microwaves. I'm no scientist, but...eh, it sounds unlikely.

referring to another post:
yea, the Autobahn served as the model for the US Interstate Highway System. Word is that Eisenhower was mighty impressed with it, so his administration "borrowed" the idea and put a slightly cheaper version of it into practice in the US.

That's the real conspiracy that no one talks about very much: the US (or the "West," to be more accurate) took in a lot of high-ranking German scientists, some of them former members of the SS, in order to further scientific research in certain fields. Nuclear power would be one example, as would rocketry...
 
For LethalWolfe and EricNau: Basically the reason microwave radiation would be dangerous outside of the microwave, and it shouldn't leave the microwave, is because it can cook your skin.

Yeah, I know. It's not like I'm the one that said
Visible light is safe, infrared radiation is safe, radiowaves are safe, so what makes the microwave radiation (right there in the middle) inherently dangerous?
and
All of the dangerous radiation is more energetic than light: gamma rays, x-rays, ultraviolet etc.


Lethal
 
Basically, what my last post is saying is that high temperature cooking can create carcinogens (cancer causing substances) because you give the molecules in your food lots of energy to rearrange into weird new combinations. This means that BAKING, DEEP FRYING, BARBEQUING, and other high temp cooking can be bad for you. Microwaving food is low temp cooking and it can actually REDUCE your carcinogen exposure if you use it instead of a high temp cooking technique.

Do you have any reputable sources for this?
 
Yeah, I know. It's not like I'm the one that said

and



Lethal

Fine....I was searching for the term (as someone else posted earlier): ionizing vs. non-ionizing radiation. I haven't taken a chem class in 2 years, but my original point (if poorly articulated) was even if microwaves can burn you, it's not the sinister radiation-leakage-and-evil-waves-out-to-give-you-cancer kind of thing that some make it out to be. Think about how long it takes to warm up food, anyway. I think you'd notice something before actually getting burned.

The commercial microwave at work that turned a hot dog to charcoal in 2 minutes is another matter, however. ;)
 
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