microwave radiaton protection

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by marvin*1*2, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. marvin*1*2 macrumors member

    marvin*1*2

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    Yrp!
    #1
    hi all
    i work often with my mbp on my lap and the wlan antenna is that way far too close to my body.
    any ideas what to best put between me and the machine in order to minimize exposure? needs to not weight too much...
    wood maybe?
    this might be not the best forum to ask this...maybe someone knows where to get advice from pros?
    thank u for helping, phil
     
  2. Detrius macrumors 68000

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    #2
    If you're worried about the radiation from radio waves, then the only proper way to shield yourself is with a Faraday cage. What you need to do is wrap the device in a conductive material (e.g. aluminum foil) and then run a cable from the foil to ground. This will neutralize the EM radiation coming from the machine.


    Oh, and it'll kill your wifi signal. That's the important thing to remember. Anything that actually protects you from the EM radiation will also kill your signal.

    Remember: just because the word "radiation" is used doesn't mean it's bad for you. When you're sitting by a fire feeling the heat on your face, that's infrared radiation, but you don't think that just because it exists that it's bad for you.
     
  3. snaky69 macrumors 603

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    #3
    With the millions of cellphones, wireless networks, radios working across all bands etc in the world, protecting yourself from just this one source of microwave radiation will not change anything to your health.

    Your cell phone in your pocket is right next to your balls, do you keep it in foil? I thought not.
     
  4. marvin*1*2 thread starter macrumors member

    marvin*1*2

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    #4
    woah, detrius, you're actually saying microwaves are harmless? what else, climate change is a hoax? with all respect man, but maybe u wanna do some research on that one.

    proximity to an antenna is very important, energy raises with decreasing distance squared... (sry, english isn't my primary language, hope u get me)

    and no, snaky, i don't have my cell phone next to my balls....in fact, i'm in flight mode 80% of the day and use it only for calls or the net when i absolutely have to. u know there was a time once where we didn't have those toys... and life wasn't terrible then.

    and whether u smoke some 5 cigis a day or 2 packets...well, that does matter...damage accumulates. and that goes for radiation damage, too.
     
  5. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

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    #5
    If you're that concerned about the radation, then the only way to avoid it, is not to use the device.

    Plus don't forget your tin foil hat, otherwise the satellites orbiting the earth will still read your mind :p
     
  6. GGJstudios, Dec 17, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2010

    GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #6
    Exactly! Can you spell p-a-r-a-n-o-i-a? :eek:

    OP: Read and learn: Radiation lurks, but it's mostly harmless
     
  7. ComputersaysNo macrumors 6502

    ComputersaysNo

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    #7
    Bodytissue raises 0.7 degrees celsius per 100mw/cm2 of 3.5Mhz ultrasound.

    Sound, visible light, heat, radiowaves (up to a certain point), ultraviolet light are all radiation. None of which can produce ionisation of tissue (=cancer) unless you excellerate particles (photons, neutrons, protons, electrons, alpha, beta or gamma ) Ionisation is a chemical reaction with the nucleus of an atom.

    There are other side-effects when exposed to one of the above in an unnatural way, but you are talking about radiation and that my friend, does not make any sense whatsoever :) You get more radiation from your TV or from the sun, than you get from a laptop. (if any)

    My guess is that you have all your furniture wraped in plastic too :p
     
  8. Fubar1977 macrumors 6502a

    Fubar1977

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    #8
    Dammit! You beat me to the tinfoil hat! :D
     
  9. deeddawg macrumors 604

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    US
    #9
    Or turn off AirPort and use a long ethernet cable.

    OP: Since you know so much about the biologic effects of electromagnetic waves on human tissue, you also know that any mechanism that effectively blocks those waves also going to effectively make it useless.
     
  10. dime21 macrumors 6502

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    Dec 9, 2010
    #10
    That's already been proven. Climategate anyone?

    WLAN, as with any radiation source, the big factor is TIME. How much time do you spend with the laptop on your lap, and the wireless lan active?

    Also, have you measured the duty cycle of your transmitter with your typical work load? The transmitter only emits radiation when it is sending. If your wlan connection is idle, the antenna is not emitting anything.

    Really, if you're that concerned about it, your best bet is to disable the wireless lan connection and use a wired connection instead - or stop using the machine altogether.
     
  11. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

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    #11
    That reminds me of one of my friend's father, who had shut down his router because he had seen a documentary on microwaves and cancer. He lives 300 feet from a cellphone antenna.;)
     
  12. Richard1028 macrumors 68000

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    Jan 8, 2009
    #12
    Like already mentioned... you can't escape it so why bother?

    Climate change is not a hoax - just the reasons behind it.
     
  13. bigchrisfgb macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Unless you have a pacemaker then there is nothing to really worry about, even then doctors only tell you not to keep your phone with WIFI on inside a shirt front pocket. Don't worry about it, everything including yourself has some sort of background radiation.
     
  14. snaky69 macrumors 603

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    Mar 14, 2008
    #14
    Standing in front of an older TV's CRT screen exposes you to more radiation than a wi-fi antenna could ever put out. You've probably spent countless hours in front of one.

    If you don't wait a few seconds before pulling out your HungryMan lunch from the microwave oven, some of the waves are still bouncing around the device and hitting your hands, do they have cancer?

    If you work in an office building near downtown whereverthehellyoulive, you're near dozens of cell phones towers, wireless access points, radio stations, all outputting more radiations than your computer.

    Oh and do you live near powerlines? Those emit EMF radiations too! And we're not talking about your car's radio, the x-rays you get at the dentists and other of those everyday things. Do you go to the tanning salon? There's that too!

    And I hope you're eating a good amount of anti-oxydants, as they prevent the release of free radicals which are believed to cause cancer.


    Why don't you grab something cold from your fridge, sip it and not worry about things that you have barely any control over? Turn your phone back on, turn on your airport, and enjoy life.
     
  15. dime21 macrumors 6502

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    #15
    ^^ Best. Advice. Ever. This is the key to happiness. Well, that and a hot sexy wife.
     
  16. old-wiz macrumors G3

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    #16
    but...but...what about the radiation from a hot sexy wife? Isn't that dangerous?
     
  17. gr8tfly, Dec 17, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2010

    gr8tfly macrumors 603

    gr8tfly

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    #17
    I know what you're trying to say, but the TV isn't a good example, as it emitted ionizing radiation in the form of X-rays (especially the old ones).

    +1 on your last line, though.

    OP: learn the difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation, and wavelength. Then read the many in-depth papers on why cell phone RF can't harm tissue at the power levels used (and, if it were high enough - like standing in front of a commercial transmitter dish, the damage would be from heat).

    Oh, since you asked for feedback from pros: and I would consider myself a pro in the field in question - both from a career as an engineer working on military microwave systems and holding an Amateur Extra FCC license. Both require knowledge of RF systems and safety.
     
  18. chemmastr macrumors newbie

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    Dec 2, 2010
    #18
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148a Safari/6533.18.5)

    WiFi emits radio radiation that has less than a thousand times the energy of UV radiation; exposure to UV light causes sun burns. I would not worry about radio radiation damaging your cells and tissues, because radiowaves are too long in length and do not carry enough energy to efficiently excite and react biomolecules.

    If you use your laptop on your lap, I would be more worried about your privates getting scorched by heat than by some damage from the wireless signal.
     
  19. Detrius macrumors 68000

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    #19
    I explicitly did NOT say that microwaves are harmless, and I HAVE done my research. The correct wavelength of microwaves lines up with the size of the water molecule and causes it to flip its orientation to match the wave. This causes friction, and friction causes heat. Get enough heat, and the water will boil. So, yes, if you sit inside a big enough microwave oven, it will kill you--from friction--not from cancer. Your body is excessively good at regulating the damage done by heat (you don't avoid hot showers, do you?). Your computer's airport signal, though, is harmless, and both physics and medical science support me on this one:

    Photons aren't inherently dangerous. Neither are bullets. However, if you put enough energy into them, they're capable of breaking things. A bullet thrown at you does not have enough energy, but if it's shot from a gun, it does. Microwave photons don't have enough energy. High-frequency ultraviolet photons do.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Erasmus macrumors 68030

    Erasmus

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    #20
    As everyone else here has said, wi-fi radiation is harmless. Think about this. Expert scientists in the appropriate fields can't decide if mobile phones are "dangerous*" or not. They are designed to transmit over 100's to 1000's of metres. Wi-fi is designed to transmit 10's of metres. And as you said, inverse square law. You do the math.

    And besides, how long until you start feeling the effects of this radiation if at all? The answer is decades. ie, there will be cures for cancer before you get any.

    * "dangerous" being defined by increasing the chance of cancer by some irrelevant, minuscule amount.

    EDIT: If you're concerned about your man/lady-bits, then be at ease. The aluminium base of your MBP is as good a low-mid frequency radiation shield (ie not gamma radiation) as any. So as someone else said, heat is far more worrisome if you're using it on your lap.

    EDIT 2: If you're still insisting on being "protected", aluminium foil is as good as anything for stopping microwaves. So go nuts. Foil pants, jacket and hat. Great look.
     
  21. sammich macrumors 601

    sammich

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    #21
    While you're at it, once you rid yourself of everything, you should consider trying to rid yourself of the cosmic background radiation. Then you need to worry about neutrinos.

    If you're concerned, buy a house in a far away place, maybe somewhere near the middle of the desert, since that way you won't get thunderstorms which produce massive electrical fields.
     
  22. Erasmus macrumors 68030

    Erasmus

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    #22
    Hey Sammich, how u doing?

    I wonder what the neutrino density is in the void between galaxies? Probably too high for this guy, regardless, lol. Those things go through LEAD! They must be deadly!
     
  23. sammich macrumors 601

    sammich

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    #23
    It's been a while eh? You should join the IRC channel in my sig for a chat :)

    Wikipedia to the rescue:
    I'd imagine the universe is positively (or should I say, neutrally) filled with them. You can't escape them. You will lose.
     
  24. marvin*1*2 thread starter macrumors member

    marvin*1*2

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    #24
    "Expert scientists in the appropriate fields can't decide if mobile phones are "dangerous*" or not."

    that is correct today. true. but please consider two things here:

    1 scientific studies that carry weight are very, very expensive and somebody has to pay for them. now, the vast majority of studies being handed around today are at least indirectly co-sponsored by organisations that are in a conflict of interest, i.e. they profit from the telcomm business in one way or the other. many US universities, especially, have lost their independence many years ago. same tendency over here in urp.
    besides, conclusive and bulletproof evidence is hardly ever found in science.

    but even more importantly:

    2 absence of evidence is no evidence of absence.
    considering the potential damage not just to our species but also to everything else on this planet, we would be not overly paranoid to heed that caution.

    for the rest; i was expecting some of the feedback to my OP, but the sort of aggressive and nasty comments kinda surprised and saddened me... but then again, not. ignorance has always been compensated with arrogance.

    i know the tinfoil hat dude, too, and i was laughing tears when i first saw that pic yrs ago, especially since it reminded me of an old classmate.
    and actually, at uni, we got a wlan router that has that pic right next to it, together with the radiation hazard sign :)

    also, read up on the history of asbestos if you care, very similar patterns here...
     
  25. arcite macrumors 6502a

    arcite

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    #25
    Just remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. ;)
     

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