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The length of your reply and sheer attitude problem tells me you are taking all this personally for reasons only a fanatic could possibly understand.
He says, after posting a multi-page reply with puh-lenty of attitude...

I'm tired to being told to buy overpriced Apple adapters (you pointing to some generic POS for $2 has NOTHING to do with Apple themselves. Their adapters DO NOT cost $2 and never have and never will.
I can't help it if you're an Apple-snob that has to have an Apple-logo on every single connecting cable and accessory. The rest of us have simply chosen a less-costly alternative for a non-critical, easily replaceable piece of our setup.

If a notebook can't play 2017 games and is good only for Flappy Birds, I'd call that underpowered.
Where did you get that? The German review clearly demonstrated that the 15" MBP was more than capable of keeping-up with other similar laptops in its class...

Why would I bring up WiFi speeds when it has nothing to do with my issues with the notebook?
Why indeed, since it doesn't fit your narrative?

Not everyone uses their notebook in battery mode all the time. Some of us would like a desktop-level notebook when it is docked.
And that's EXACTLY what you got!

Besides, Jony didn't make that WiFi chip.
He didn't make the CPU or GPU; but that didn't stop you from laying their specifications on him. Make up your mind, if you can...

Thunderbolt 2 is simply not acceptable on a Thunderbolt 3 machine.
And yet, USB-A IS?!?!?!? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

If you only kept this notebook for 3 years, you will NOT have anywhere near 100% USB-C products in that time.
And some people still bemoan the removal of the floppy drive, even to this day... So what? Time marches on.

The ONLY reason they are not going USB-C is because they make more money by charging license fees for their propriety garbage than using the WORLD STANDARD of USB-C on it.
You're pretty far-gone, you know that, don't you?

Strike that. I know you don't realize it.

Apple could have made this a GREAT notebook
And they did!

But then Apple could have kept OpenGL fully up-to-date too. And they could have fixed the sleep bug with NFS networking (there is STILL no sleep token to keep the machine from sleeping if you use NFS which is 100% fully UNIX supported and therfore a part of macOS, but Apple ignores it and lets the machine sleep even if your computer is in the middle of transferring huge files. I've reported that bug at least 3 times personally and they continue to IGNORE IT
From what I hear from the REAL tech forums, OpenGL is considered a dinosaur. That's why Apple created "Metal". Is is essentially "DirectX for Macs".

As for your NFS sleep bug: Yeah, that sounds like it sucks; but you are probably one in about 100 people worldwide that is affected by that. Switch to another OS and do your NFS downloading. At least you can easily do that with a Mac...

Or, here's a thought: Configure your Energy Saver prefs to NOT SLEEP the computer when connected to AC Power, then plug your MacBook in to your AC Adapter. Afterall, you wouldn't want to run out of battery power in the middle of that long torrent from Russia, would you? Problem solved! And you can still sleep the Display if you want. It's an imperfect world; but all in all, that's a pretty easily-mitigated problem, don'tcha think?

But of course you don't.

Oh, or you can use something like this to keep your Mac from sleeping. It's cheezy, but it works:

http://www.sticksoftware.com/software/Jiggler.html

Oh, and that took EXACTLY 2 seconds of Googling for "macos simulate cursor movement to prevent sleep"

But I'm sure you'd rather just whine than workaround a tiny OS bug. Better yet, move to Windows or Linux. See if your Bug Reports get addressed better there!

Next non-issue...
 
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He says, after posting a multi-page reply with puh-lenty of attitude...

And replied to with another wall of text himself....

I can't help it if you're an Apple-snob that has to have an Apple-logo on every single connecting cable and accessory. The rest of us have simply chosen a less-costly alternative for a non-critical, easily replaceable piece of our setup.

You seem to have completely misread that and missed the point. My point is that none of us should need ANY dongle or adapter to do anything on a Mac or iPhone. Apple's trend for the past decade has been to make dongles for everything and replace Macbooks like my 2008 model's plenty of ports with a few ports that need adapters to connect anything at all from Ethernet to a Firewire audio adapter to even a mouse now. Apple has become the KING of Dongles and it's SO unnecessary. They'd have plenty of room for connections and other things if they weren't so insistent on FLAT FLAT FLAT.

Apple had a notebook for flat and it was called the Macbook Air. It's now redundant/pointless as the regular Macbook IS the Air now. But then this started about the time they put the name "PRO" on everything when many models like the 13" clearly are not. But then this is the same company that hasn't updated the Mac Pro in over 3 years (after turning it into a freaking trash can with all external expansion, thus KILLING "PRO" use for most people.

Where did you get that? The German review clearly demonstrated that the 15" MBP was more than capable of keeping-up with other similar laptops in its class...

In its class. Ultra-thin crap.

Why indeed, since it doesn't fit your narrative?

I think we've been over this. But since you have no argument, just keep saying it. :rolleyes:

And yet, USB-A IS?!?!?!? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

MOST stuff still uses a USB-A connector including the 4TB 2.5" drive I just picked up the other day brand new (and it's the same speed). They're not going to make USB-C connectors on devices until enough computers have the ports. Until such time, it would behoove Apple to keep at least ONE USB-A connector on their computers for backwards compatibility without having to use a dongle/adapter. I'm sorry that's SO HARD for you to comprehend. By the time most devices have switched to USB-C, this notebook will already be outdated and hence my logic. Your 'arguments' show no logic at all.

And some people still bemoan the removal of the floppy drive, even to this day... So what? Time marches on.

Comparing a smaller symmetrical connector to an entire drive system is so mountain-to-mole hill it's just utterly UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. :D

First of all, you can't just use an adapter to put back a floppy drive. We're talking about an end connector here, not ditching a parallel printer port for a USB connection even.

You're pretty far-gone, you know that, don't you?

I'd say that borders on flaming. You don't even want to know my opinion of you at this point.

From what I hear from the REAL tech forums, OpenGL is considered a dinosaur. That's why Apple created "Metal". Is is essentially "DirectX for Macs".

What you hear, eh? In other words, you don't know a damn thing about it. I was referring to the past decade of Intel machines where Apple was regularly 3-6 years behind the current standard. Even now, there are games not being made because Apple never finished the standard to its final version.

Metal has its own problems. The first and biggest is that it's proprietary once again. NO ONE ELSE IS USING IT. That means a game maker who wants to release a Mac version has to create their own Metal drivers and tools and separate programming to make a game work. That probably explains why there's like all of ONE game available for Metal right now after almost two years and maybe 1/10 the game releases of two years ago from people like Aspyr. They're either spending all their time trying to get a working game engine for Metal (before they can do any amount of conversions) or they've abandoned the Mac because Apple can't be bothered to use a freaking STANDARD (as per usual). They should either use Valkyrie or pay Microsoft to license DirectX. Metal is a disaster. They aren't keeping it up-to-date and there's isn't JACK SQUAT for it on the Mac.

As for your NFS sleep bug: Yeah, that sounds like it sucks; but you are probably one in about 100 people worldwide that is affected by that. Switch to another OS and do your NFS downloading. At least you can easily do that with a Mac...

If only 100 people are using NFS with something like Kodi, it's because Apple pushes people away from the platform by not properly supporting SMB (still doesn't work with a lot of older code) after abandoning a 3rd party driver that worked perfectly.

Or, here's a thought: Configure your Energy Saver prefs to NOT SLEEP the computer when connected to AC Power, then plug your MacBook in to your AC Adapter.

LOL. I'm not using a Macbook as a server dude. I've got a Mac Mini Quad-i7 for that. The point is that if no one is watching a movie or using the computer, it should be able to go to sleep to save electricity. I HAVE been keeping it on 24/7 to avoid the issue. It's ridiculous that I'd have to do that. I finally reconfigured everything for SMB only after Kodi got it working with the Mac's newer SMB, but there's still a couple of issues I feel worked better with NFS, but thanks to Apple it's either waste electricity or make do.

Go ahead and try to turn that isn't a Pro Apple RANT again! Go Apple! :apple:

Afterall, you wouldn't want to run out of battery power in the middle of that long torrent from Russia, would you?

You don't even know what NFS is for do you? It sure as HELL has NOTHING to do with Torrents. Unlike you, apparently, I actually buy my movies.

Problem solved! And you can still sleep the Display if you want. It's an imperfect world; but all in all, that's a pretty easily-mitigated problem, don'tcha think?

But of course you don't.

The point of sleep is to save electricity. I've been doing what you're suggesting when I was using NFS. It's a waste and easily solved by Apple. I've sent them THREE bug reports. They refuse to lift a finger when they certify macOS as UNIX and NFS is part of the Unix standard distribution and fully supported (as in the DO keep it up to date). But the left hand and right hand at Apple don't talk to each other much so the guy that could fix that in two minutes flat is the guy that doesn't even realize it's an issue.

Oh, or you can use something like this to keep your Mac from sleeping. It's cheezy, but it works:

http://www.sticksoftware.com/software/Jiggler.html

I've had Caffeine on my Mac since the PPC days. Again, you miss the point. I want the computer to sleep to save electricity and be more "green". Apple claims they're all about "green" on the one hand but then they keep making disposable products on the other.

Oh, and that took EXACTLY 2 seconds of Googling for "macos simulate cursor movement to prevent sleep"

Like I said, you god damn well missed the fracking point. I'll say that instead of calling you a name. ;)

But I'm sure you'd rather just whine than workaround a tiny OS bug. Better yet, move to Windows or Linux. See if your Bug Reports get addressed better there!

It's not even an issue on those platforms dude and thus I'd need no bug report! :rolleyes:

Next non-issue...

Fanatics like you calling things "non-issues" that don't affect you personally or your electricity bill just shows what a narrow little view you have of the world around you, as if everything revolves around you and your computer uses and tastes. A lot of people have issues with some of the more recent Apple products, but to you it's just whining because you're not using it that way and clearly don't care about anyone but yourself. o_O

Have a nice day. ;)
 
And replied to with another wall of text himself....



You seem to have completely misread that and missed the point. My point is that none of us should need ANY dongle or adapter to do anything on a Mac or iPhone. Apple's trend for the past decade has been to make dongles for everything and replace Macbooks like my 2008 model's plenty of ports with a few ports that need adapters to connect anything at all from Ethernet to a Firewire audio adapter to even a mouse now. Apple has become the KING of Dongles and it's SO unnecessary. They'd have plenty of room for connections and other things if they weren't so insistent on FLAT FLAT FLAT.

Apple had a notebook for flat and it was called the Macbook Air. It's now redundant/pointless as the regular Macbook IS the Air now. But then this started about the time they put the name "PRO" on everything when many models like the 13" clearly are not. But then this is the same company that hasn't updated the Mac Pro in over 3 years (after turning it into a freaking trash can with all external expansion, thus KILLING "PRO" use for most people.



In its class. Ultra-thin crap.



I think we've been over this. But since you have no argument, just keep saying it. :rolleyes:



MOST stuff still uses a USB-A connector including the 4TB 2.5" drive I just picked up the other day brand new (and it's the same speed). They're not going to make USB-C connectors on devices until enough computers have the ports. Until such time, it would behoove Apple to keep at least ONE USB-A connector on their computers for backwards compatibility without having to use a dongle/adapter. I'm sorry that's SO HARD for you to comprehend. By the time most devices have switched to USB-C, this notebook will already be outdated and hence my logic. Your 'arguments' show no logic at all.



Comparing a smaller symmetrical connector to an entire drive system is so mountain-to-mole hill it's just utterly UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. :D

First of all, you can't just use an adapter to put back a floppy drive. We're talking about an end connector here, not ditching a parallel printer port for a USB connection even.



I'd say that borders on flaming. You don't even want to know my opinion of you at this point.



What you hear, eh? In other words, you don't know a damn thing about it. I was referring to the past decade of Intel machines where Apple was regularly 3-6 years behind the current standard. Even now, there are games not being made because Apple never finished the standard to its final version.

Metal has its own problems. The first and biggest is that it's proprietary once again. NO ONE ELSE IS USING IT. That means a game maker who wants to release a Mac version has to create their own Metal drivers and tools and separate programming to make a game work. That probably explains why there's like all of ONE game available for Metal right now after almost two years and maybe 1/10 the game releases of two years ago from people like Aspyr. They're either spending all their time trying to get a working game engine for Metal (before they can do any amount of conversions) or they've abandoned the Mac because Apple can't be bothered to use a freaking STANDARD (as per usual). They should either use Valkyrie or pay Microsoft to license DirectX. Metal is a disaster. They aren't keeping it up-to-date and there's isn't JACK SQUAT for it on the Mac.



If only 100 people are using NFS with something like Kodi, it's because Apple pushes people away from the platform by not properly supporting SMB (still doesn't work with a lot of older code) after abandoning a 3rd party driver that worked perfectly.



LOL. I'm not using a Macbook as a server dude. I've got a Mac Mini Quad-i7 for that. The point is that if no one is watching a movie or using the computer, it should be able to go to sleep to save electricity. I HAVE been keeping it on 24/7 to avoid the issue. It's ridiculous that I'd have to do that. I finally reconfigured everything for SMB only after Kodi got it working with the Mac's newer SMB, but there's still a couple of issues I feel worked better with NFS, but thanks to Apple it's either waste electricity or make do.

Go ahead and try to turn that isn't a Pro Apple RANT again! Go Apple! :apple:



You don't even know what NFS is for do you? It sure as HELL has NOTHING to do with Torrents. Unlike you, apparently, I actually buy my movies.



The point of sleep is to save electricity. I've been doing what you're suggesting when I was using NFS. It's a waste and easily solved by Apple. I've sent them THREE bug reports. They refuse to lift a finger when they certify macOS as UNIX and NFS is part of the Unix standard distribution and fully supported (as in the DO keep it up to date). But the left hand and right hand at Apple don't talk to each other much so the guy that could fix that in two minutes flat is the guy that doesn't even realize it's an issue.



I've had Caffeine on my Mac since the PPC days. Again, you miss the point. I want the computer to sleep to save electricity and be more "green". Apple claims they're all about "green" on the one hand but then they keep making disposable products on the other.



Like I said, you god damn well missed the fracking point. I'll say that instead of calling you a name. ;)



It's not even an issue on those platforms dude and thus I'd need no bug report! :rolleyes:



Fanatics like you calling things "non-issues" that don't affect you personally or your electricity bill just shows what a narrow little view you have of the world around you, as if everything revolves around you and your computer uses and tastes. A lot of people have issues with some of the more recent Apple products, but to you it's just whining because you're not using it that way and clearly don't care about anyone but yourself. o_O

Have a nice day. ;)

So you'd be pleased with an inch-thick MBP weighing in at 5-6 pounds, incorporating a desktop GPU, full size DVI, optical disc drive – heck, why not throw in a floppy drive? – all the legacy ports you could think of, and probably half the battery life of the actual MBP?

Then obviously, Apple devices aren't for you and haven't been since 2008.

To me, Apple made all the right choices with the new MBPs. The performance they managed to pack into that light and thin of a chassis is mind-blowing. A cooling system that has a 45 Watt quad core not thermal throttle while also serving a 30 Watt dGPU... Which by the way is incredibly performant for it's wattage, AMD's done a great job optimizing Polaris 11 there. Apple couldn't have made a better choice.

You complain that Apple didn't implement one single USB Type A port. I'm glad they didn't, that just wouldn't be the right thing to do. You state as a reason that the adoption of Type C for peripherals isn't high enough yet. You know who's to blame for that? Manufacturers who didn't have the courage yet to go all-in on Type C so peripheral makers don't feel compelled to widely adopt it. Apple is paving the way for them, be grateful.

Now the only thing for Apple left to do is bring all their devices in line, which will probably happen this year. Upgrade iMacs with USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 only (Ethernet, audio jack can stay), hopefully Mac Pro and Mac mini get the same treatment, and ship iPhones/iPads with USB-C to Lightning Cables and USB-C chargers.
 
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I forgot, you represent the "ENTIRE WORLD".

Man, I just love when people think they are the CENTER of everything when all they are doing is living under a ROCK.
Facts are facts. People don't sync.

You don't need ME to tell you this either. The fact that USB 3 has never been pursued for the dock connection tells you that it is not a pressing need.
 
Same thing with the "Lack of a Lightning Port". Apple has NEVER put a Lightning-Port on ANY of their computers; why-oh-why is it such a hand-wringer NOW?!? Wanna hook your iPhone to your new MBP? Here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/BC-Master-Lightning-Connector-Chromebook/dp/B01KO5NJ44

or, just use your current USB-A to Lightning "Charging Cable" with this $2 snap-on:

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Hi-speed-Devices-MacBook-ChromeBook/dp/B01LHBFCEO

Do you have a link to a simple adapter that allows a pair of Lightning headphones to connect to a MacBook Pro?
 
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So you'd be pleased with an inch-thick MBP weighing in at 5-6 pounds, incorporating a desktop GPU, full size DVI, optical disc drive – heck, why not throw in a floppy drive? – all the legacy ports you could think of, and probably half the battery life of the actual MBP?

Between you and the other guy continually bringing up NOTHING TO DO WITH IT floppy drives, I think you just might as well scream "I have NO ARGUMENT" and crawl away.

Then obviously, Apple devices aren't for you and haven't been since 2008.

They have been heading in the wrong direction since then. Bonehead moves like ditching replaceable batteries are there for no other reason than so they can charge you to replace the battery (ala iPhones/iPods) which really means they want to "encourage" you to replace the whole thing every few years (because of a battery). There is no reason that larger battery couldn't be user removable so any argument in that direction loses. Norelco is the same way. They solder the batteries in so that guy average can't change it. Apple has even soldered in the hard drive on the latest models and while you might be able to use Apple's own argument about using a bigger battery (that doesn't mean it has to be soldered), one cannot justify Apple's position when it comes to soldering a hard drive connector to keep you from changing it (i.e. they want to 'encourage' you to have Apple upgrade it for you at immense cost). Apple has become the company of GREED. Sadly, this leaves normal users out of the loop because I'm not paying $3000 for a notebook (because that is what it costs to get a FUNCTIONAL Macbook Pro with a hard drive that's large enough to do anything besides just Facebook and anyone who would buy a $2400 notebook just to do Facebook has clearly got too much disposable income.

But go on, keep justifying bonehead moves by Apple. You're clearly SO good at it. ;)

It's one thing to be happy with what they're offering because you do have too much money and don't care, but if you're going to get on here and argue about it, you better have a decent argument.

To me, Apple made all the right choices with the new MBPs. The performance they managed to pack into that light and thin of a chassis is mind-blowing.

Obsession with THIN doesn't impress me. The new strip that replaces the function keys is garbage (I want real function keys because a lot of applications and games use them and a "strip" isn't accessible without looking and adds $400 to an already high price. To get a 1TB drive, you need to spend 3000 freaking dollars. That is $600 more than the OLD base Mac Pro (the new one costs more and gives less with no internal storage what-so-ever AND it hasn't been updated ONCE in over 3 years). But keep on defending Apple who is clearly moving to get rid of the Mac in the long run and just do phones which makes them most of their money....

You complain that Apple didn't implement one single USB Type A port. I'm glad they didn't, that just wouldn't be the right thing to do.

That just wouldn't be the right thing to do? WOW!!! WHAT AN ARGUMENT! CALL THE PRESS!!!!!!!! Holy Cow dude. You should get a Nobel Peace Price for that kind of logic! :confused:

You state as a reason that the adoption of Type C for peripherals isn't high enough yet. You know who's to blame for that? Manufacturers who didn't have the courage yet to go all-in on Type C so peripheral makers don't feel compelled to widely adopt it. Apple is paving the way for them, be grateful.

That's a STUPID argument. It's called the chicken/egg situation. Courage has nothing to do with it. Money is everything. They can't sell USB-C peripherals to a non-existent market and computer manufactures aren't big on including hardware there's no peripherals for. This is exactly why Thunderbolt hasn't exactly caught on like wildfire. Most PC makers ignored it entirely. The same hard drives that were available for Thunderbolt were generally no faster than USB C variations (except the most costly RAID drives) and cost typically 40-100% more for the same drive/performance.

You can more or less force USB-C on users with phones more easily since they are replaced more often and have fewer devices plugged into the phone itself. But putting USB-C on a computer means all the USB peripherals the user currently owns and will continue to use will need an adapter/dongle/hub to use them with the new computer while there are no USB-C devices to buy which means even more adapters. Most of the USB-C connector benefits are for mobile uses. They make little difference on desktops. But if you want to switch everything, you need to PHASE IT IN not just DUMP IT so that there's a transition period where (particularly) a desktop user has both options (without adapters) and can slowly switch hardware over and while older devices wear out. There's no reason a desktop can't include a crap load of BOTH connector types except for Apple, who is obsessed with THIN and small even where it makes no functional difference what-so-ever (e.g. my desk has a spot built in for a tower, so WTF do I need a small "Mini" profile for? I don't. I'd PREFER a Tower (lots of internal storage and keeps the desktop clean), but Apple won't make one anymore (trash cans not withstanding that have no internal storage either).

And lest we think Apple has a plan, we can see that they transitioned the 13 inch Macbook with all USB-C a year earlier while not putting a SINGLE PORT on any other Mac model that year. And that Macbook had ONE WHOLE PORT ON IT!!!!!! That's called BAD DESIGN. PERIOD. Even Google's Chromebook had TWO USB-C connectors on it! You had to choose between plugging it in the wall and plugging in a hard drive, usb stick or mouse without buying yet MORE adapters (Apple made no hubs, so you had to WAIT for someone else to do it for them!!!) RIDICULOUS! Unacceptable!

But I'm sure you LOVED IT because that took courage! :rolleyes:

Now the only thing for Apple left to do is bring all their devices in line, which will probably happen this year. Upgrade iMacs with USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 only (Ethernet, audio jack can stay), hopefully Mac Pro and Mac mini get the same treatment, and ship iPhones/iPads with USB-C to Lightning Cables and USB-C chargers.

Happen my foot. Apple couldn't give two farts about the Mac Pro (an unsupported computer is a dead computer; they didn't even drop the price on an outdated 3 year old computer!) or desktops anymore. They already killed the Mac Mini with the last update which made the innards inaccessible, ditched the faster processors and quad-core options and the two drive option. They KILLED IT. FRACK Apple and the horse they came in on. They don't deserve my money anymore. They keep trying to tell me what I they want me to buy (iMac or Macbook) instead of what I want to buy (powerful desktop and keep my existing monitors since I have 6 of them sitting around).
[doublepost=1488906852][/doublepost]
No, but if you think there's a market for it, why don't you make one and become the next millionaire?

Probably because Apple would sue him since it's their propriety connector (Lightning). Apple already makes an adapter to connect to a regular headphone jack anyway. It's $9. http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter

I'm sure some Chinese knock-offs will appear for $1. Apple has a hard time suing them. They might short out, but hey, it's better than $9 to connect Apple's garbage ear pods (worth 50 cents) to your computer.
 
Do you have a link to a simple adapter that allows a pair of Lightning headphones to connect to a MacBook Pro?
I did find one adapter on Amazon (google "lightning female to usb-c male") but it was out of stock. There were a few more options for lightning to usb-a, but by far the most common was lightning to micro usb. You might be able to daisy-chain one of those onto a micro usb to usb-c adapter, and hopefully as long as they both support full data throughput it'd work.

Emphasis on the hopefully. I've always thought making the headphones lightning based was an odd choice. My recommendation to most folks in that situation is to invest in a semi-decent pair of bluetooth headphones.
[doublepost=1488907702][/doublepost]
Probably because Apple would sue him since it's their propriety connector (Lightning). Apple already makes an adapter to connect to a regular headphone jack anyway. It's $9. http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35-mm-headphone-jack-adapter
Just to clarify, you do realize that adapter can't actually be used to connect the lightning earpods to a computer, right? Which was what the original question was about.
 
And replied to with another wall of text himself....



You seem to have completely misread that and missed the point. My point is that none of us should need ANY dongle or adapter to do anything on a Mac or iPhone. Apple's trend for the past decade has been to make dongles for everything and replace Macbooks like my 2008 model's plenty of ports with a few ports that need adapters to connect anything at all from Ethernet to a Firewire audio adapter to even a mouse now. Apple has become the KING of Dongles and it's SO unnecessary. They'd have plenty of room for connections and other things if they weren't so insistent on FLAT FLAT FLAT.

Apple had a notebook for flat and it was called the Macbook Air. It's now redundant/pointless as the regular Macbook IS the Air now. But then this started about the time they put the name "PRO" on everything when many models like the 13" clearly are not. But then this is the same company that hasn't updated the Mac Pro in over 3 years (after turning it into a freaking trash can with all external expansion, thus KILLING "PRO" use for most people.



In its class. Ultra-thin crap.



I think we've been over this. But since you have no argument, just keep saying it. :rolleyes:



MOST stuff still uses a USB-A connector including the 4TB 2.5" drive I just picked up the other day brand new (and it's the same speed). They're not going to make USB-C connectors on devices until enough computers have the ports. Until such time, it would behoove Apple to keep at least ONE USB-A connector on their computers for backwards compatibility without having to use a dongle/adapter. I'm sorry that's SO HARD for you to comprehend. By the time most devices have switched to USB-C, this notebook will already be outdated and hence my logic. Your 'arguments' show no logic at all.



Comparing a smaller symmetrical connector to an entire drive system is so mountain-to-mole hill it's just utterly UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. :D

First of all, you can't just use an adapter to put back a floppy drive. We're talking about an end connector here, not ditching a parallel printer port for a USB connection even.



I'd say that borders on flaming. You don't even want to know my opinion of you at this point.



What you hear, eh? In other words, you don't know a damn thing about it. I was referring to the past decade of Intel machines where Apple was regularly 3-6 years behind the current standard. Even now, there are games not being made because Apple never finished the standard to its final version.

Metal has its own problems. The first and biggest is that it's proprietary once again. NO ONE ELSE IS USING IT. That means a game maker who wants to release a Mac version has to create their own Metal drivers and tools and separate programming to make a game work. That probably explains why there's like all of ONE game available for Metal right now after almost two years and maybe 1/10 the game releases of two years ago from people like Aspyr. They're either spending all their time trying to get a working game engine for Metal (before they can do any amount of conversions) or they've abandoned the Mac because Apple can't be bothered to use a freaking STANDARD (as per usual). They should either use Valkyrie or pay Microsoft to license DirectX. Metal is a disaster. They aren't keeping it up-to-date and there's isn't JACK SQUAT for it on the Mac.



If only 100 people are using NFS with something like Kodi, it's because Apple pushes people away from the platform by not properly supporting SMB (still doesn't work with a lot of older code) after abandoning a 3rd party driver that worked perfectly.



LOL. I'm not using a Macbook as a server dude. I've got a Mac Mini Quad-i7 for that. The point is that if no one is watching a movie or using the computer, it should be able to go to sleep to save electricity. I HAVE been keeping it on 24/7 to avoid the issue. It's ridiculous that I'd have to do that. I finally reconfigured everything for SMB only after Kodi got it working with the Mac's newer SMB, but there's still a couple of issues I feel worked better with NFS, but thanks to Apple it's either waste electricity or make do.

Go ahead and try to turn that isn't a Pro Apple RANT again! Go Apple! :apple:



You don't even know what NFS is for do you? It sure as HELL has NOTHING to do with Torrents. Unlike you, apparently, I actually buy my movies.



The point of sleep is to save electricity. I've been doing what you're suggesting when I was using NFS. It's a waste and easily solved by Apple. I've sent them THREE bug reports. They refuse to lift a finger when they certify macOS as UNIX and NFS is part of the Unix standard distribution and fully supported (as in the DO keep it up to date). But the left hand and right hand at Apple don't talk to each other much so the guy that could fix that in two minutes flat is the guy that doesn't even realize it's an issue.



I've had Caffeine on my Mac since the PPC days. Again, you miss the point. I want the computer to sleep to save electricity and be more "green". Apple claims they're all about "green" on the one hand but then they keep making disposable products on the other.



Like I said, you god damn well missed the fracking point. I'll say that instead of calling you a name. ;)



It's not even an issue on those platforms dude and thus I'd need no bug report! :rolleyes:



Fanatics like you calling things "non-issues" that don't affect you personally or your electricity bill just shows what a narrow little view you have of the world around you, as if everything revolves around you and your computer uses and tastes. A lot of people have issues with some of the more recent Apple products, but to you it's just whining because you're not using it that way and clearly don't care about anyone but yourself. o_O

Have a nice day. ;)
Okay, howabout a truce?

Your last post has demonstrated that you actually DO have some insight (anyone who knows how to use "behoove" correctly can't be all that stupid!); so howabout let's put away the flamethrowers and Nomex-suits and have a real discussion?

To start off with, although I have been an Apple user (and fan) since 1976 (yes, I even have an original Apple 1), I don't have a 2016 MBP. My newest Mac is a 2012 15" Non-Retina MBP, which I dearly love. I specifically bought it even after the 2013 Retina model came out, because I wanted a FireWire port and an Optical drive. Both of which I have used exactly ONCE. It also has an SD slot that I have used exactly once, mostly just to make sure it actually worked.

But I WOULD trade it in a minute for the new MBP (15"), because I happen to believe that USB-C IS the way-forward (and soon!), and that the "donglegate" matter has really been completely-overblown due to internet naysayers. And Apple isn't alone by any means in jumping on the USB-C/TB3 bandwagon. Here is a list of dozens of NON-APPLE laptops that have USB-C/TB3. It's actually quite surprising. The Intel Reps. have been out there pushing this technology HARD! ;-)

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10579-laptops-thunderbolt-3/


IMHO, I also think that Apple has done a very good job at creating a "well-balanced" system with the 2016 MBPs (at least the 15" model), that actually DOES deliver a very good combination of decent battery life, excellent long-term, high-load performance, and incredible I/O expandability. The fact that they were able to do that and still trim some weight actually does make a lot of road-warriors smile. Honest! Everything in Engineering is a trade-off, and laptop design is no exception. One thing I admire greatly about Apple, and they continually get sh** for, is that they don't just shove together a bunch of components that are "this year's darlings" and call it an "update". They wait until something, like Skylake, comes along, that actually allows them to build a demonstrably better-system (in this case, by getting a handle on the thermal issues, so that they could take full-advantage of the CPU without losing performance to thermal-throttling).

Now about the OpenGL vs. Metal thing: You're right, I don't know anything specifically about OpenGL or Metal development. I am an embedded systems designer with several decades of experience; but I have never once built a modern video game. I used to think it was great that Apple embraced the OpenGL standard (simply because it WAS a standard!); but I can see how they secretly-pined for the raw performance advantages that MS was able to achieve with DirectX. And wasn't Metal originally an iOS thing? If you say that Apple has letting it, too, languish, then that is really too bad. They have never been serious about Gaming on the Mac; which is curious, considering that the Apple ][ actually came with game-paddles, and Woz felt that gaming-ability was the true-test of system performance (which is true).

And now to NFS. I do know that it is a Unix networking thing; but little else about it. After out last "volley", I went and did a little research on the subject of "Sleep and NFS on Mac" (not the actual search-term I used), and found at least a few forums where people were saying that even while playing-back a movie from an NFS share, their Mac would go to sleep, because NFS volumes weren't handled the same way as other network shares, and that the "aggressive sleep behavior" that was instituted in OS X Lion seems to have messed things up for that crowd. By the way, it does seem like the same things I suggested were what was proposed as a non-perfect workaround. That "Jiggler" app might work well for your mini; because, if I read the web-page correctly, you could have it "jiggle" automatically for certain applications, which sounds kind of what you want...

FYI, I don't pirate movies, either. In fact, I'm so old-school, I hardly even use my Hulu and Netflix accounts, and still go to the local video-store (yes, they still exist!) to rent actual DVDs (which I don't even bother to rip)! I am anxiously awaiting the next ATV version (I don't have one now), though, in hopes that I might finally be able to use it to "cut the cord", and (maybe with a nice Mac mini) (finally) retire the G5 tower I have sitting in my living-room, working as a FRONT ROW (yes, Front Row!) Server...

Someday.

So, does that help?
[doublepost=1488909478][/doublepost]
ship iPhones/iPads with USB-C to Lightning Cables and USB-C chargers
I agree with everything in your post except this. Lightning should be quickly phased-out, and replaced with USB-C for both charging and data-transfer in their mobile lineup.
 
Just to clarify, you do realize that adapter can't actually be used to connect the lightning earpods to a computer, right? Which was what the original question was about.

Ah, I see. It has the DAC in the earphones which means you'd either need another ADC (might as well give it a Lightning jack then) or a Lightning to USB cable, neither which seem to exist. I guess there IS a market for it, albeit a small one. It does show how ridiculous it this whole Lightning headphone concept is when almost everything has analog output (except Apple phones now apparently).

But this then goes back to my argument that the Macbook Pro needs more ports than just USB-C on it. If Apple is going to go USB-C, then they need to go USB-C on the iPhone as well and then you won't have this issue since it would be USB-C headphones to USB-C ports. As it is, you'd need a Lightning port on the Macbook Pro or a converter and they make neither, leaving owners of lightning headphones high and dry.
[doublepost=1488915245][/doublepost]
But I WOULD trade it in a minute for the new MBP (15"), because I happen to believe that USB-C IS the way-forward (and soon!), and that the "donglegate" matter has really been completely-overblown due to internet naysayers. And Apple isn't alone by any means in jumping on the USB-C/TB3 bandwagon. Here is a list of dozens of NON-APPLE laptops that have USB-C/TB3. It's actually quite surprising. The Intel Reps. have been out there pushing this technology HARD! ;-)

http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10579-laptops-thunderbolt-3/

I have no issue with a Thunderbolt 3 notebook/laptop. I agree it's quite the nice technology. You should be able to easily have ONE WIRE to connect such a notebook to a dock that could include a desktop gaming level graphics card in it. That would make for a sweet setup. If you look back to my older posts from over a year ago, it's exactly what I've been waiting for Apple to deliver. My problem is not that the 15" Macbook Pro has Thunderbolt 3 or USB-C on it. My problem is that to get a functioning model that will suit both my mobile needs and my desktop needs, it will cost a minimum of $3000 (i.e. with a 1TB internal drive as the 250GB is pretty much worthless to me since I record digital audio and I'd prefer not to have an external drive hanging out while in the wild. I would certainly need at least a 500GB drive minimum, but 1TB would afford room to do more than just audio or swapping out all the time so I'm back to $3000 since you can't really upgrade the drive yourself due to Apple's needless soldering. I can solder just fine, but I'd still need a 3rd party kit and for that kind of money, I shouldn't have to do that).

THEN, on top of that, I would need this supposed desktop hub with the desktop graphics card in it. How much more will THAT cost me? $1000? It's hard to say since it doesn't quite exist yet the last time I looked. So then my total cost is maybe $4000? Plus a monitor of some kind? $4500? $5000? The problem is at those price points, I might as well just buy a separate notebook and desktop computer and be done with it. I could get a 13" model and an iMac 5k and it wouldn't cost me anymore, let alone if I built a Hackintosh for the desktop. And THAT is why it's so disappointing. The FUNCTIONAL COST of this new 15" Macbook Pro is $3000 as far as I'm concerned. I'd complain far less if that same option was available at the $2000 level (for reference, I paid $1600 for my 2008 Macbook Pro on clearance as the new 2009 models were becoming available that weren't any better, IMO other than the lack of the bad NVidia GPU that never affected my computer). So paying double and then still needing a desktop solution (or buying a console for gaming assuming I don't need any PC only games which are becoming rarer) just isn't very appealing regardless of adapters or the lack of a USB-A port.

My current audio hardware on the aging 2008 Macbook Pro (for Logic use) is Firewire 400 so I'd either need an adapter there or a new audio interface. My current docking setup includes connections that this notebook doesn't have (e.g. Gigabit Ethernet) so more adapters or a hub will be needed. USB-C/Thunderbolt sounds great, but the reality is these all incur extra costs since my network doesn't accept USB-C to connect to the router. Thus, I either would have to use (typically slower) WiFi (or upgrade the router) or buy an adapter of some kind (or hub). All this adds to the above price and instead of upgrading for $2000 (older Macbook Pro) or $2400 (current with small hard drive), I'm looking at well over $3000 and until there's a GPU hub, it won't replace a gaming computer too so that means another computer anyway.

USB-C is the future? Maybe, but it's a costly one in the present when Apple refuses to include $15 worth of connectors in the 21st Century they had in spades 9 years ago for nothing. Given nothing else I have uses 802.11AC let alone something newer (soon cell connections will surpass many ISPs with 5G), I haven't been in a hurry to replace my Netgear Dual 2.4/5GHz router. Gigabit works best, IMO. No interference. No security risk. You pay for wireless convenience.

I don't really care about the 13" Thunderbolt 2 thing as I'm only interested in the 15" model as that size screen is usable for editing away from a full sized monitor and 13" is hard on my eyes. Ultimately, though I use a mouse with it so I'd need at least one adapter for that plus the audio interface (I would probably get a newer backup/external drive so I won't mention the current Firewire 800 drive being used for backups). The neat thing with the 2008 model is it had an expansion port so for $12 I got a USB3 card for it over four years later which gave it near full USB3 transfer speeds when newer Apple Macbooks could not do USB3 at all including the first Thunderbolt model unless you bought an expensive Thunderbolt hub that added it. $300 for a hub or $12 for an Express Card? THAT is why fancy Thunderbolt isn't always "better" when something a fraction of the cost will work just as well for a given application.

My 2008 model has a super drive in it as well. That takes up a LOT of space. Yes, it weighs around 6 pounds, but clearly they could make a lighter thinner model with more expansion options an a modern Express card slot (they used to waste that same space for just an SD card reader, which you can get a cheap Express card to do the same thing or a USB plugin model). The point is that "Pro" models should be flexible for Pro needs. Apple has a history of making consumer models and calling them PRO in recent years. The Mac Pro is a perfect example. I don't know whom they made that computer for. It's a good desktop video editor, but it's not good for mobility due to all the external expansion. It's also was not kept remotely up-to-date (although Apple got bad about the previous model in the closing years of it too, but the PCI bus offered a lot of flexibility).

My question is why the most valuable tech company on the planet (as of recent reports) cannot manage to do BOTH iPhones and Macs and keep them up-to-date. If smaller companies can manage, why not Apple? They've had years and years to hire more people yet the Mac Pro languishes at over 3 years old and the Mini got a huge downgrade instead of an upgrade. The short-sighted quick buck mentality is going to cost them formerly life long consumers in the long run and they don't seem to care. Tim Cook has made it quite clear he likes iPads better than Macs (so it must be perturbing him to no end that the iPad sales keep dropping and there's almost no interest in an iPad "PRO"). Jony Ive weas a good designer when Steve Jobs kept him reigned in to do what Jobs wanted, not what Jony wanted. Jony has an obsession with THIN products (clearly more so than Jobs at this point) and Tim, being the "fashionable" kind of guy he is, seems to just love Mr. Thin's ideas. Sadly, some of us are COMPUTER PEOPLE (not fashion) and we'd like FUNCTION before form when required. A pretty computer is fine so long as it doesn't sabotage the functionality. I've said for years if Apple doesn't want to make certain tier computers then they should license those particular models to a 3rd party company to make. The specific purpose license is what would keep the 1990s from repeating. Let someone else make the "X" model Mac or a blade server if Apple has no interest. It would just be extra sales for them and it would keep Apple's reputation for actual flagship products intact instead of all the Pros quietly switching back to Windows.
 
Bonehead moves like ditching replaceable batteries are there for no other reason than so they can charge you to replace the battery (ala iPhones/iPods) which really means they want to "encourage" you to replace the whole thing every few years (because of a battery).
There is no reason that larger battery couldn't be user removable so any argument in that direction loses.

You know the Batteries in current iPhones are easier to replace than ever, right? Also, having Apple do it for you doesn't cost the world and certainly not enough for anyone to instead "replace the whole thing".

On the other hand devices where you can't replace the battery easily are for example the MacBooks, where you have a large battery consisting of several parts shaped to perfectly fit the room available in the casing. That indeed allows for a larger battery.

Apple has even soldered in the hard drive on the latest models and while you might be able to use Apple's own argument about using a bigger battery (that doesn't mean it has to be soldered), one cannot justify Apple's position when it comes to soldering a hard drive connector to keep you from changing it (i.e. they want to 'encourage' you to have Apple upgrade it for you at immense cost).

Soldered hard drive connector? Where do you find that?
Devices that still have hard drives (iMac, Mac mini, Time Capsule) use standard S-ATA connectors, nothing soldered there.

Apple has become the company of GREED. Sadly, this leaves normal users out of the loop because I'm not paying $3000 for a notebook (because that is what it costs to get a FUNCTIONAL Macbook Pro with a hard drive that's large enough to do anything besides just Facebook and anyone who would buy a $2400 notebook just to do Facebook has clearly got too much disposable income.

I paid 2100 EUR for my 13" MBP (Touch Bar) which got me the mid-tier CPU (3.1 GHz i5-6287U), 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB of flash storage. That's clearly more than enough storage to "do anything besides just Facebook" and probably more RAM than I'll ever really need on this machine. I can't complain, the price is high obviously but that's what you pay if you want a premium notebook.

Obsession with THIN doesn't impress me. The new strip that replaces the function keys is garbage (I want real function keys because a lot of applications and games use them and a "strip" isn't accessible without looking and adds $400 to an already high price. To get a 1TB drive, you need to spend 3000 freaking dollars. That is $600 more than the OLD base Mac Pro (the new one costs more and gives less with no internal storage what-so-ever AND it hasn't been updated ONCE in over 3 years). But keep on defending Apple who is clearly moving to get rid of the Mac in the long run and just do phones which makes them most of their money....

Nice how you completely ignore that my point was about the impressive performance/thickness ratio...

Also nice how you call something "garbage" that you obviously haven't used yourself for more than 5 minutes. I've used the Touch Bar for about three months now and I can tell you, I never expected it to be as useful as it proved to be, even in everyday use.

That just wouldn't be the right thing to do? WOW!!! WHAT AN ARGUMENT! CALL THE PRESS!!!!!!!! Holy Cow dude. You should get a Nobel Peace Price for that kind of logic! :confused:

Yup. Having USB-A besides USB-C is almost as wrong as having USB-A 3.0 besides USB-A 2.0 what many PC manufacturers were (and still are) doing... I get that at one time there also was FireWire 400 and 800 side by side on the same Mac, but that was a different time and not quite the same sleek design philosophy.

I seriously love my MBP for not having a legacy USB-A port on it. Of course I've bought a USB-C to USB-A adapter, but the times I had to use it can be counted on one hand. Would've been a nice move to just include that adapter in the box, but hey it's only 9 bucks...

Happen my foot. Apple couldn't give two farts about the Mac Pro (an unsupported computer is a dead computer; they didn't even drop the price on an outdated 3 year old computer!) or desktops anymore.

One thing at last we can agree on, the "new" Mac Pro is in desperate need for a refresh. I don't appreciate Apples decision to let it rot for over 3 years without even adjusting the price. It doesn't really affect me though since I'm not in the market for a Mac Pro anytime soon. I still would like to see it upgraded but I'm pretty confident that will happen this year, since AMD Vega 10 drivers have already shown up in macOS, and I doubt they're targeted for the iMac.
 
You know the Batteries in current iPhones are easier to replace than ever, right? Also, having Apple do it for you doesn't cost the world and certainly not enough for anyone to instead "replace the whole thing".

Tell that to my older iPod Touch models. They only did exchanges at the Apple Store I went to and since they didn't have the 4G model in stock (half a year after the 5G model came out), they would have had to take the thing for weeks (to mail it since they don't do it locally, "geniuses" that they are). $99 for an old iPod Touch that takes weeks to get it back? Nice. I use it as a wired remote now instead.

Soldered hard drive connector? Where do you find that?
Devices that still have hard drives (iMac, Mac mini, Time Capsule) use standard S-ATA connectors, nothing soldered there.

I see you conveniently left out the computer I was talking about, the 2016 Macbook Pro. https://betanews.com/2016/11/16/2016-apple-macbook-pro-teardown/

In case you don't know, an SSD hard drive is still considered a hard drive. It's soldered to the logic board. No SATA. No consumer upgrades so far. As the article rightly points out, Apple has never been known for easy consumer upgrades, but the 2016 model takes it to the next level of purposely making it difficult. They are making THROWAWAY computers and at that price point that is simply unacceptable and not "green" at all.

More articles:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...s-mark-the-end-of-upgradeable-apple-computers
http://bgr.com/2016/11/18/macbook-pro-2016-ssd-data/


2016 Macbook Pro article Quote below:
http://bgr.com/2016/10/28/macbook-pro-2016-specs-touch-bar/

MacBook Pro’s bleeding-edge graphics: Like a gaming PC from 2012

Looking at the benchmarks of that card, it should mean acceptable performance running something like Photoshop, easy playback of 4K video, or gaming at good settings, but only at a 1080p resolution.

That’s a problem, because the 15-inch MacBook Pro’s display is a much higher resolution than 1080[. Higher resolution needs a more powerful graphics card to push all those extra pixels, so to do any gaming on the new Pro, you’ll need to lower the settings or the resolution. That’s no fun.

Things get worse when you compare the $2,000+ laptop to other 15-inch Windows laptops, most of which tend to be designed for performance. A quick search throws up numerous 15-inch laptops around the $1,500 mark, which have much more powerful graphics cards, and more RAM and storage to boot. For a little extra weight, you can even get laptops with desktop-level GTX 1070 or 1080 cards, which are hilariously better than the Radeon Pro 400s in the MacBook Pros.

Comparing the Pro 400s to desktop graphics cards makes you realize that for a serious workstation running demanding programs on multiple monitors, even the best 15-inch Pro will be underpowered. The specs for that card aren’t far off the old Radeon HD 7770, a desktop graphics card I bought for about $200 in 2012. I replaced that two years ago with a GTX 970 when the old card started struggling to run games in 1080p.

Now, for sure, the rest of the MacBook Pro’s specs — particularly the absurdly fast solid-state drive — mean that it’s going to be better than my old PC. But if you’re buying a 15-inch Pro to be the centerpiece of your high-power, sometimes-portable workstation, you might want to think again.

Is Apple Giving Up On Making Great Computers
http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/10/is-apple-giving-up-on-making-great-computers.html


I paid 2100 EUR for my 13" MBP (Touch Bar) which got me the mid-tier CPU (3.1 GHz i5-6287U), 16 GB of RAM and 512 GB of flash storage. That's clearly more than enough storage to "do anything besides just Facebook" and probably more RAM than I'll ever really need on this machine. I can't complain, the price is high obviously but that's what you pay if you want a premium notebook.

I'd argue there's nothing "obvious" about those prices.

6 Cheaper Alternatives to the Macbook Pro
http://laptops.reviewed.com/features/6-cheaper-alternatives-to-the-macbook-pro

Nice how you completely ignore that my point was about the impressive performance/thickness ratio...

I think I mentioned repeatedly in my posts that I don't give a flying rat's hind quarter about the "thickness" or "thinness" of a Macbook Pro. I'm perfectly happy with my 2008's size and weight and thickness and it has every port available I could imagine at the time plus an expansion port and a removable battery and easy access ram expansion for the user (the hard drive wasn't all that hard to change either and it wasn't even that bad changing out one of the cooling fans whose bearing was getting obnoxiously loud). Compare that to cases being glued shut these days and hard drives being soldered to the logic board. Apple is PURPOSELY making it a PITA to work on. The "old" Apple made a PowerMac and Mac Pro that were state-of-the-art AND were simple as pie for the users to open up and change drives and add PCI cards, etc. My PowerMac Digital audio didn't even need a screwdriver to open the case. You just pulled the handle on the side and the side folded down. Now THAT was user friendly and "Crystal" style case was awesome looking at the time (much better than the "cheese grater" look that came next or the current "trash can" look.

Also nice how you call something "garbage" that you obviously haven't used yourself for more than 5 minutes. I've used the Touch Bar for about three months now and I can tell you, I never expected it to be as useful as it proved to be, even in everyday use.

I wouldn't mind it if it didn't get rid of the function keys (i.e. it sat above the function key area). I do mind the $400 extra price for essentially an overpriced gimmick. What do you do if you want an external dock setup? There's no strip on Apple's external keyboards and no one else makes anything like it.

Yup. Having USB-A besides USB-C is almost as wrong as having USB-A 3.0 besides USB-A 2.0 what many PC manufacturers were (and still are) doing... I get that at one time there also was FireWire 400 and 800 side by side on the same Mac, but that was a different time and not quite the same sleek design philosophy.

USB-A and USB-C are just different connectors (maybe the C variant has extra power connections but otherwise). In other words, you're comparing apples to oranges again. The ability to quickly plug in a USB stick or mouse is lost. Keep those dongles nearby and don't drop them on the floor and lose them or you're SOL. The 13" Macbook made you choose between connecting something and plugging it into the wall since it didn't provide a 2nd port or separate power port. 3rd party dongles to the rescue AGAIN. Great stuff Apple!

I seriously love my MBP for not having a legacy USB-A port on it. Of course I've bought a USB-C to USB-A adapter, but the times I had to use it can be counted on one hand. Would've been a nice move to just include that adapter in the box, but hey it's only 9 bucks...

The fact you don't need any expansion ports on your Macbook doesn't necessarily constitute the needs other users, unfortunately.
 
Tell that to my older iPod Touch models. They only did exchanges at the Apple Store I went to and since they didn't have the 4G model in stock (half a year after the 5G model came out), they would have had to take the thing for weeks (to mail it since they don't do it locally, "geniuses" that they are). $99 for an old iPod Touch that takes weeks to get it back? Nice. I use it as a wired remote now instead.

How exactly does that contradict my statement that current iPhones' batteries are easier to replace than ever?

I see you conveniently left out the computer I was talking about, the 2016 Macbook Pro. https://betanews.com/2016/11/16/2016-apple-macbook-pro-teardown/

In case you don't know, an SSD hard drive is still considered a hard drive. It's soldered to the logic board. No SATA. No consumer upgrades so far. As the article rightly points out, Apple has never been known for easy consumer upgrades, but the 2016 model takes it to the next level of purposely making it difficult. They are making THROWAWAY computers and at that price point that is simply unacceptable and not "green" at all.

Flash storage is generally not referred to as "hard drive".

You make it sound like Apple malevolently soldered some connector to prevent anyone from exchanging their "hard drive", and like they could just have not soldered it. But that isn't the case.

Starting with the 12" MacBook two years ago and now also in the new MBP, the separate NAND chips comprising the flash storage are sitting directly on the logic board where they obviously have to be soldered. Just like the RAM chips have long before.

This isn't about soldering some connector or not, but about having the flash storage on a separate module or integrated on the logic board.

I'd argue there's nothing "obvious" about those prices.

6 Cheaper Alternatives to the Macbook Pro
http://laptops.reviewed.com/features/6-cheaper-alternatives-to-the-macbook-pro

I said the price was obviously high. I'd be surprised if you disagreed...

And when it comes to your link: surely those are premium devices too and they're expensive as well. But as you should expect from the (sometimes not so big) price difference, every one of them comes with tradeoffs, be it raw power, thickness, battery life, build quality or something else.

I think I mentioned repeatedly in my posts that I don't give a flying rat's hind quarter about the "thickness" or "thinness" of a Macbook Pro. I'm perfectly happy with my 2008's size and weight and thickness and it has every port available I could imagine at the time plus an expansion port and a removable battery and easy access ram expansion for the user (the hard drive wasn't all that hard to change either and it wasn't even that bad changing out one of the cooling fans whose bearing was getting obnoxiously loud). Compare that to cases being glued shut these days and hard drives being soldered to the logic board. Apple is PURPOSELY making it a PITA to work on. The "old" Apple made a PowerMac and Mac Pro that were state-of-the-art AND were simple as pie for the users to open up and change drives and add PCI cards, etc. My PowerMac Digital audio didn't even need a screwdriver to open the case. You just pulled the handle on the side and the side folded down. Now THAT was user friendly and "Crystal" style case was awesome looking at the time (much better than the "cheese grater" look that came next or the current "trash can" look.

What a coincidence, I have a PowerMac G4 (Digital Audio) sitting right here.

If you don't care about thickness or weight, well... Then the MBP might just not be the right device for you anymore.
Maybe just get the 2015 MBP or the 2012 one with optical drive even.

I wouldn't mind it if it didn't get rid of the function keys (i.e. it sat above the function key area). I do mind the $400 extra price for essentially an overpriced gimmick. What do you do if you want an external dock setup? There's no strip on Apple's external keyboards and no one else makes anything like it.

Well, that's what I'm hoping for (and what I'm expecting), a Magic Keyboard with Touch Bar and Touch ID introduced alongside new iMacs. If that works with my 2012 iMac, I'll be sold...

USB-A and USB-C are just different connectors (maybe the C variant has extra power connections but otherwise). In other words, you're comparing apples to oranges again. The ability to quickly plug in a USB stick or mouse is lost. Keep those dongles nearby and don't drop them on the floor and lose them or you're SOL. The 13" Macbook made you choose between connecting something and plugging it into the wall since it didn't provide a 2nd port or separate power port. 3rd party dongles to the rescue AGAIN. Great stuff Apple!

You're talking about the 12" MacBook. Yeah, that's why someone who sees the need to frequently charge the device while plugging in something else (besides headphones) won't buy that device. You obviously won't, so why bother? For a lot of people, it's a great machine fulfilling all their needs. Not mine though.

The fact you don't need any expansion ports on your Macbook doesn't necessarily constitute the needs other users, unfortunately.

Didn't say that.

But if you need those other ports built in, the new MacBook Pro simply isn't for you. Get the old one, that'll do the job until you don't need those ports anymore either.
 
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How exactly does that contradict my statement that current iPhones' batteries are easier to replace than ever?

Given you've never expounded on that statement (or proven it), I'd say your statement means nothing to me. All iPhones and iPod Touch units fall under the same program and I'm saying they don't change it. They give you another unit (someone else's unit) or send it away. Better than ever? Hardly. You're implying it's "easier" to unglue an iPhone and take it apart yourself? Easy? Phhhhffftt. Right. A pain in the butt would be more like it.

iPhone 6
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+6+Plus+Battery+Replacement/29424

iPhone 7
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+7+Battery+Replacement/67528

iPhone 7 hast a step to MICROWAVE the suction cups even and you call that "easier to replace than ever". Amazing.

Flash storage is generally not referred to as "hard drive".

Generally by whom, exactly??? SSD stands for SOLID STATE DRIVE and I dare say flash memory is not flexible (as in soft or "floppy") and thus it's STILL a type of hard drive and on most computers they are interchangeable with the same interface (typically a form of SATA). Now SDCards and even USB sticks might not always be called "drives", the drive inference refers to the primary or secondary type storage for a given device as opposed to something typically temporarily connected to transfer photos or other media types to another device (or having been removed from a device like a camera).

The point is that when I'm talking about a hard drive being soldered to the logic board, it's plainly obvious to anyone with even a slight knowledge what I'm referring to. That implies you either don't have any idea what's in a 2016 Macbook Pro or you're playing word games to 'win' an argument rather than discuss its actual merits. Based on everything else you've said and what you've ignored, I'd place my bets on the latter.

You make it sound like Apple malevolently soldered some connector to prevent anyone from exchanging their "hard drive", and like they could just have not soldered it. But that isn't the case.

Starting with the 12" MacBook two years ago and now also in the new MBP, the separate NAND chips comprising the flash storage are sitting directly on the logic board where they obviously have to be soldered. Just like the RAM chips have long before.

Same difference and same effect and totally unnecessary. It's the same as Apple soldering ram chips instead of using sockets or modules. My 2008 MBP uses industry standard DIMM modules and it has a quick trap door access for the user's convenience.

This isn't about soldering some connector or not, but about having the flash storage on a separate module or integrated on the logic board.

What does that mean if not they've chosen to prevent user modification of their hard (flash) storage? It's the same damn thing. It's not user friendly and it's DISPOSABLE and you're in quite a mess if your hard drive (or flash storage if you prefer) FAILS. For all your word games, what you've said changes not a single damn thing.
 
I did find one adapter on Amazon (google "lightning female to usb-c male") but it was out of stock. There were a few more options for lightning to usb-a, but by far the most common was lightning to micro usb. You might be able to daisy-chain one of those onto a micro usb to usb-c adapter, and hopefully as long as they both support full data throughput it'd work.

Emphasis on the hopefully. I've always thought making the headphones lightning based was an odd choice. My recommendation to most folks in that situation is to invest in a semi-decent pair of bluetooth headphones.

Thanks for your efforts to reason that out. There have been several threads dealing with this subject, including a few on the Apple Support Forums. The consensus is that whatever audio signal is being sent over Lightning is not likely anything standard that will just work. Adapters such as you've found, unless specifically stated, are not likely intended to solve a Lightning headphone problem. Then there's the handshake between the Lightning connector and the port which authorizes it to just work (so when I connect and disconnect, it knows to take over the audio output, and likewise release it). Case in point, none of the Lightning Dongles I have with a passthrough port will work with the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter. And those are Apple products meant to pass through Lightning signals.

Fortunately, theres still a 3.5mm headphone jack on the MB and MBP. So for anyone using an iPhone 7 and a Mac, the best bet is just to keep using an old pair of headphones and the adapter. Not a very progressive solution for Apple, especially in light of the claims made during the introductory keynote, but it obviously works. The people who lose here are the ones who bought high end Lightning capable headphones like the Audeze Sine. Yes the cables can be swapped out (and the only way I would spend any real money on a Lightning equipped headphone), but that's not a very reasonable solution for daily use. Maybe Apple thought the headphone makers would step up to the plate to solve their own problem. Who knows. But the lack of one essentially relegates Lightning to little more than a charging method.
 
Generally by whom, exactly??? SSD stands for SOLID STATE DRIVE and I dare say flash memory is not flexible (as in soft or "floppy") and thus it's STILL a type of hard drive and on most computers they are interchangeable with the same interface (typically a form of SATA).
It's a matter of semantics, considering "hard drive" is a shortened form of hard disk drive, and some people want to get up in arms about calling an SSD a "hard drive" (reference to HDD) because it doesn't have a disk and calling it a "hard (disk) drive" doesn't make sense.

As a matter of course it's usually fine to respond to semantics arguments like this with :rolleyes: and just move on.
 
Honestly I really couldn't care less if the port is going to charge the phone in seconds, when I can't use the earphones that shipped with my iPhone 7 with my 2016 Macbook Pro it is still a mess.

The fast charging wont make up for that inconvenience. As long as Wall Street is happy though.
 
And I don't know why so many people are correlating the Notes that caught fire with USB-C. Every other newer Android phone uses the port without issue. One has nothing to do with the other. It's a lazy argument without merit.

It's not about the tech being bad, but Apple has experienced lawsuits in the past with unlicensed third party cables, which now don't even work on iPhones unless licensed IIRC (haven't really used one in a while)
 
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