Ming-Chi Kuo Says Apple Considering Lower-Priced HomePod After Potentially Lackluster Sales

[gugy]

Apple should lower HomePod price to $250 and give one year Apple Music subscription for free. That would boost sales and expose tons of people to AM. In the long run I would think this would be a good strategy. Of course fixing Siri and add features would help too.

 

[Altis]

I dont consider what others need when I am buying a product for MY enjoyment.

It would be a race to the bottom to placate some folks. Anyway they won’t lower the price

No, but for some reason you actively oppose others getting features they may like and that would dramatically expand the capabilities and longevity of the product.

Dropping the price by $50 would have absolutely zero effect on you or the product, but you oppose it anyways because heaven forbid it become accessible to others.

 

[subjonas]

HomePod is appropriately priced IF:

1. Siri gets smarter.
2. Device is feature complete.
3. Can be used with third-party streaming services.

OR

4. People don’t care about Siri’s smarts (or lack thereof) and only use Apple Music.

Agreed, but in addition (for me):
3b. Can play from personal iTunes audio library using Siri.
3c. User can give feedback on equalizer balance to Siri (eg. Hey Siri, raise the mids) and Siri will smartly apply the same equalizer preference to similar music
3d. Can be set as default speakers for Apple TV.

Bonus:
It would also be great if Siri can accurately detect my voice and my voice only for secure access to my stuff. But that’s a tall order.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

I think a lot of the knockers for HomePod are either to friggin cheap to buy one or wrapped up in other ecosystems that don't have as good a speaker.

Why would being "wrapped up in other ecosystems" mean that you "don't have as good a speaker"?

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

I tend to agree here.

I have done a lot of experimenting with Alexa with my alarm system and thermostat because neither of those items in my house are currently HomeKit compatible. Here is the EXACT command I HAVE to use to get Alexa to set my security alarm:

"Alexa, ask Alarm.com to arm stay my security system." You can't say "Hey Alexa, arm my security system." or even "turn on my security system". And you DEFINITELY can't say "Set the security alarm". These are all natural things I should be able to tell a voice assistant. I shouldn't have to do verbal acrobatics to get what I want. But if I don't use that exact phrase, she either says she can't do that, or she tries to set a wake up alarm instead.

With the HomePod and my Hue lights, smart locks, etc., there are a zillion different ways I can ask Siri to do something and she will catch my drift most of the time, even if I don't quite give her the correct room name or the correct device name. And I don't have to ask Siri to ask another service to ask a device to do something. I just tell Siri directly to do it.

I have no experience with Google Assistant, but I find Alexa to be even more frustrating than Siri. I'll take a conversational voice assistant that's a little more limited over Alexa any day. With critical items like lights, I just need the thing to know what I mean. 99% of the time, Siri does.

I connected our two Nest 3 thermostats to Alexa when we used the Echo for a short time. The linking of accounts was not something I liked at all and even when it worked it was just awkward to ask it to change the temperature and way slower than opening the nest app on my iPhone and doing it.

 

[JediZenMaster]

No, but for some reason you actively oppose others getting features they may like and that would dramatically expand the capabilities and longevity of the product.

Dropping the price by $50 would have absolutely zero effect on you or the product, but you oppose it anyways because heaven forbid it become accessible to others.

Apple has design the product based on what they think is best. I also buy into a wireless world as well and I don’t have to like line in and I’m not going to say I do just to appease some of you.

It’s accessible at 399 and if it’s not then some folks need to have a true conversation with their wallet.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

No, absolutely not. Siri is marketed as an intelligent assistant. As soon as you have to read the manual to know what its limited set of commands is, it has utterly failed at anything resembling an assistant. It is absolutely valid for a user's expectations to align with what competing products can do. Because if Apple isn't actually competing with those products, it has no chance of success with its.

"It is absolutely valid for a user's expectations to align with what competing products can do"

Actually it is an absolutely ignorant user exception to do that. If you are spending $350 at least use Google for 5min to find out what is can and can't do.

 

[Regime2008]

Apple has design the product based on what they think is best. I also buy into a wireless world as well and I don’t have to like line in and I’m not going to say I do just to appease some of you.

It’s accessible at 399 and if it’s not then some folks need to have a true conversation with their wallet.

So would you skip the purchase if Apple had a line in port? Sounds like you would be ok with literally ANYTHING Apple does.

 

[kdarling]

I have done a lot of experimenting with Alexa with my alarm system and thermostat because neither of those items in my house are currently HomeKit compatible. Here is the EXACT command I HAVE to use to get Alexa to set my security alarm:
"Alexa, ask Alarm.com to arm stay my security system."

Yeah, with tens of thousands of addon skills, Alexa must be told which one to use.

Google Home apparently has shortcuts available, and rumors say Alexa will be getting something like that as well.

In the meantime, perhaps you can shorten things a bit by using IFTTT:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-craft-your-own-custom-voice-commands-for-amazon-echos-alexa/

 

[JediZenMaster]

So would you skip the purchase if Apple had a line in port? Sounds like you would be ok with literally ANYTHING Apple does.

Yup I would because 1) Line in is the past and 2) Apple doesn’t backtrack and just like Touch ID ain’t coming back neither is line in.

 

[spiderman0616]

Yeah, with tens of thousands of addon skills, Alexa must be told which one to use.

Google Home apparently has shortcuts available, and rumors say Alexa will be getting something like that as well.

In the meantime, perhaps you can shorten things a bit by using IFTTT:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-craft-your-own-custom-voice-commands-for-amazon-echos-alexa/

I already use IFTTT for a few different things. Works great with any setup really. I have some Workflow scripts set up so that they can trigger it too. One tap on my Apple Watch can turn off all lights, shut the garage, and lock the front door.

 

[Regime2008]

Yup I would because 1) Line in is the past and 2) Apple doesn’t backtrack and just like Touch ID ain’t coming back neither is line in.

Apple doesn't backtrack? Not only did the new Ipad include Touch ID, but it uses 1st gen Touch ID, not 2nd gen like its more recent phones. I thought Face ID was the future?

 

[Gregg Thurman]

"Our understanding is that the market expects HomePod shipments to arrive at 5-10 million units in the 2018 fiscal year, versus our forecast of only 2.0-2.5 million units," wrote Kuo.

...at $349, Kuo said the HomePod's high price "could undermine demand despite excellent sound quality."

The oft-accurate analyst said..."

Kuo is so full of **** its hard to tell his ethnicity.

The HomePod has been for sale for barely over two months in only 3 of the about 100 markets that Apple sells into. Of the markets the HomePod IS NOT currently available are the world's 2nd and 3rd largest (China and Eurozone).

The amount of time and the very limited number of markets the HomePod has been for sale, make third-party assumptions as to success highly problematic. In other words, once in a while, Kuo does get something correct, but his accuracy record is about 40%. This isn't one of those times.

 

[JediZenMaster]

Apple doesn't backtrack? Not only did the new Ipad include Touch ID, but it uses 1st gen Touch ID, not 2nd gen like its more recent phones. I thought Face ID was the future?

The more elegant iPad will have it. Anyway they don’t backtrack.

 

[seanoo]

I think this’ll prove to be a good idea. It makes sense to have a higher-end, full-sounding option (the current) for larger and more commonly used rooms and a HomePod mini or whatever for smaller and less frequently used rooms (bedroom, bathroom). And it makes sense to start with the one that better showcases audio quality (Apple’s strong suit in this arena) while they work out the, errrr, let’s politely call them ‘kinks’ in Siri.

 

[sracer]

I think one thing a lot of people are forgetting here is that it's ok for Apple to fail at something. They failed every now and then under Steve Jobs, and we can't expect them to be perfect now any more than we should have expected them to be perfect then. If the HomePod really does fully fail (I really don't think it will), it's not the end of the world.

Ah, but the "Apple can do no wrong" (or "Apple doesn't do anything that is wrong enough to matter") attitude is what keeps the whole thing afloat. Once someone considers that Apple failed at something significant, they've crossed over and open themselves up to examining everything.

Not many are willing to take the "red pill". This is not unique to Apple, but is applicable to "fandom" in general.

In any particular market, Apple is going to be the most "closed" option. I was initially a fan of Apple TV but as more open alternatives appeared, any benefits of the Apple TV appeared to diminish by comparison... coupled with software issues that made integrating Apple TV with iPods Touches, iPhones, iPads, Macbooks, and iMacs, there really was no benefit to sticking with a more restrictive option.

The same seems to currently be true for the HomePod. HomePod is great for those hardcore Apple fans who are willing to live with the restrictions and limitations. But in homes that are "open" to different ecosystems and standards, the HP is a non-starter. Everything that I've read about and heard about the HP sound quality draws me to buy one. The closed-ness of it is the deal-breaker. Are there enough people like me for Apple to take notice? Probably not.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

The more elegant iPad will have it. Anyway they don’t backtrack.

You mean like when Apple introduced the buttonless 3rd generation iPod Shuffle then a year later Steve Jobs stood on stage and "backtracked" by introducing the 4th generation iPod Shuffle with (gasp) buttons because that's what the public wanted?

 

[44267547]

I think a lot of the knockers for HomePod are either to friggin cheap to buy one or wrapped up in other ecosystems that don't have as good a speaker.

I would say your logic is rather skewed. I don’t think others are being too ‘cheap’ to purchase the HomePod, you also have to factor in the HomePod is not inexpensive either. Not to mention, there are those who still question if they even need a smart speaker/home audio Bluetooth speaker in the first place.

Also, I wouldn’t say it’s about other ecosystems that consumers are wrapped in, it’s just they don’t know if you want to spend that type of money depending on how they plan on using the Bluetooth speaker to begin with.

 

[Regime2008]

The more elegant iPad will have it. Anyway they don’t backtrack.

So lets use an auto example. Lets say Car manufacturer X claims that CVT transmissions are the future, and how much better they are to previous transmissions, they offer better gas savings, more torque, etc. If that car manufacturer uses an older transmission (non cvt) in its new lineup of cars, would that not be backtracking? If not, then what would you call it?

 

[mudflap]

There's too many lower priced alternatives. If Apple comes out with a slick looking HomePod for $100 they could make a killing.

There's no way they can do that and keep the same audio tech without losing money on ever sale. HomePod's speaker array is quite advanced and I read that you can't really get anything close to it without spending over thousand bucks. So $349 is actually a pretty sweet price. Of course, cheaper is better, so if they can find a way to lower the price but keep the same sound quality, I'd be all over it.

 

[ChrisA]

The problem really is the price. Even if you care a lot about sound quality the apple product is not very good when compared to a $350 not-smart speaker. If you buy a $350 passive speaker from (say) Polk Audio it will sound much better.

But what you get from Apple is a much smaller and compact product. Do people who care mostly about sound quality care if the speaker is compact and small? I doubt it. these people will put in a 7 or 9 channel home theater system.

Apple would boo well to creat a product that just have microphones and an audio output jack that connects to a true stereo system. Google sells a small speaker with a good microphone for $29. The sound is acceptable for noise commands and for music and video I have MUCH better speakers.

Apple needs to work in both meter AI and integration with other home electronics. A self contained $350 little box is of limited use.
[doublepost=1523643682][/doublepost]

There's no way they can do that and keep the same audio tech without losing money on ever sale. HomePod's speaker array is quite advanced and I read that you can't really get anything close to it without spending over thousand bucks. So $349 is actually a pretty sweet price. Of course, cheaper is better, so if they can find a way to lower the price but keep the same sound quality, I'd be all over it.

What you read is wrong. It is easy to get better sound for $350. It is VERY hard to get better sound out of box as tiny as a Home pad.

It is good sound for its size but not good sound for its price.

 

[JediZenMaster]

You mean like when Apple introduced the buttonless 3rd generation iPod Shuffle then a year later Steve Jobs stood on stage and "backtracked" by introducing the 4th generation iPod Shuffle with (gasp) buttons because that's what the public wanted?

That was then and this is now. We will see and when they don’t backtrack it will feel great knowing they are moving things forward instead of staying chained to the past.

 

[doelcm82]

but some apologists said that HomePod is like Apple Watch and people can not take just some sales numbers out of context...

Yeah, that's what some apologists said about Apple Watch a few years back.

What the haters said is also familiar:

Remember Apple Watch? Me Neither. - Seeking Alpha
Analyst: Interest in the Apple Watch is 'lackluster' - Fortune
Apple Watch sales fall 55% as consumers mark time on category - Financial Times

I don't think Apple ever planned for the HomePod to be a single product. As people build out their HappyLife Homes, they are going to need smart speakers in most every room (and maybe some outside, too). Apple wants to be a player in that game. The 2018 HomePod is just the first entry.

And I don't think Apple is late to the game either. This is more about home automation than it is about music, and home automation is still in its larval stage. Music and television are just two of the things that Apple can help automate.

I feel confident in saying that physical light switches will one day seem quaint (like newspapers and POTS landlines). I don't feel as sure saying what the replacement will be like. Are we doomed to a future of shouting "Hey Siri" or "Alexa"? I kind of think our HappyLife Homes will be smart enough to tell the difference between a command and human to human conversation. There is still a lot of work to do before that's ready, and I think when it is ready, no one will be claiming that Apple missed the boat back in 2018.

 

[JediZenMaster]

So lets use an auto example. Lets say Car manufacturer X claims that CVT transmissions are the future, and how much better they are to previous transmissions, they offer better gas savings, more torque, etc. If that car manufacturer uses an older transmission (non cvt) in its new lineup of cars, would that not be backtracking? If not, then what would you call it?

I wouldn’t call it backtracking if those models were already in the pipeline and when the 2018 iPhones come there will be no Touch ID except on the sequel to the cheap tiny se.

 

[spiderman0616]

Ah, but the "Apple can do no wrong" (or "Apple doesn't do anything that is wrong enough to matter") attitude is what keeps the whole thing afloat. Once someone considers that Apple failed at something significant, they've crossed over and open themselves up to examining everything.

Not many are willing to take the "red pill". This is not unique to Apple, but is applicable to "fandom" in general.

In any particular market, Apple is going to be the most "closed" option. I was initially a fan of Apple TV but as more open alternatives appeared, any benefits of the Apple TV appeared to diminish by comparison... coupled with software issues that made integrating Apple TV with iPods Touches, iPhones, iPads, Macbooks, and iMacs, there really was no benefit to sticking with a more restrictive option.

The same seems to currently be true for the HomePod. HomePod is great for those hardcore Apple fans who are willing to live with the restrictions and limitations. But in homes that are "open" to different ecosystems and standards, the HP is a non-starter. Everything that I've read about and heard about the HP sound quality draws me to buy one. The closed-ness of it is the deal-breaker. Are there enough people like me for Apple to take notice? Probably not.

I'm a tad different from your take, but not much. I have Hue, August, MyQ, and other products in my home. Being an Apple Music addict and having 3 other family members in my house that love it too, I knew the HomePod would be enjoyed by all 4 of us for listening to music--no doubts there. Being an owner of a bunch of different "smart" home products from different companies, I also knew that if HomePod was a failure, that didn't mean that the significant amount of money I spent on those products would be wasted. They'll work in other systems too, and they'll still work in the "Home" app on my iOS devices.

Long story short--if Apple went belly up right now and all HomePods spontaneously stopped functioning, my smart home would still work fine. My Apple Music library would not share the same fate.
[doublepost=1523644010][/doublepost]

Yeah, that's what some apologists said about Apple Watch a few years back.

What the haters said is also familiar:

Remember Apple Watch? Me Neither. - Seeking Alpha
Analyst: Interest in the Apple Watch is 'lackluster' - Fortune
Apple Watch sales fall 55% as consumers mark time on category - Financial Times

I don't think Apple ever planned for the HomePod to be a single product. As people build out their HappyLife Homes, they are going to need smart speakers in most every room (and maybe some outside, too). Apple wants to be a player in that game. The 2018 HomePod is just the first entry.

And I don't think Apple is late to the game either. This is more about home automation than it is about music, and home automation is still in its larval stage. Music and television are just two of the things that Apple can help automate.

I feel confident in saying that physical light switches will one day seem quaint (like newspapers and POTS landlines). I don't feel as sure saying what the replacement will be like. Are we doomed to a future of shouting "Hey Siri" or "Alexa"? I kind of think our HappyLife Homes will be smart enough to tell the difference between a command and human to human conversation. There is still a lot of work to do before that's ready, and I think when it is ready, no one will be claiming that Apple missed the boat back in 2018.

We don't use physical light switches in our house anymore. We have a really awesome Hue setup installed, and have all grown accustomed to asking the HomePod (or iPhone/iPad/Apple Watch) to turn things on and off or set scenes. A few months ago when I first set it up, I'll admit it seemed a bit silly to talk to the house. Now I've expanded it out to almost every room and added a smart deadbolt and outlets.