Mini Updated, Mac Pro Ignored!

[TennisandMusic]

I guess it depends how you define marketing... but product is one of the four p's of marketing (along with price, promotion, and place). And Apple's products also possess an unmatched level of refinement in design, material selection, and software elegance. The new Mac Mini is a perfect example. The new iPhone is another. The iPad another. Only Sony can come close to Apple in hardware, but Sony is saddled with Microsoft's crappy bloated OS. No other computer manufacturer I've encountered can match Apple here. So its' not just marketing fluff.

Now the Mac Pro is lagging in specs, at least for now, but it's internals are still a marvel to behold for anyone that's ripped open a PC, or even built their own PC with a mind for cable managements, silent cooling, and overall aesthetics.

So it's more than marketing.

Let's face it, if there was no appeal to owning a Mac, no one would be in here whining about the product, they would just go and buy a PC.

Umm...the part about just going and buying a PC? That's exactly what the vast majority of the people of the world do. Windows is over 90% market share I believe?

The stuff about software elegance, design, material selection? All kool-aid. May I ask what your profession is? There is no magic in Apple software. More "elegant" is absolute rubbish. Yes they design nice looking machines, often at the cost of functionality (read current iMac's and even Mac Mini's...core 2 duos still??). Their material selection for the innards is below the quality of what you can get in parts purchased at Fry's for PC. There is no way an Apple OEM board compares well to an Asus, Gigabyte, or EVGA board. You really should check out the difference. Again, you show fanboy colors by calling Microsoft's OS "crappy and bloated." Windows 7 screams (to use a Steve Jobs favorite). Have you used it? It runs faster than Snow Leopard on Apple's own hardware, and is very well done. Not sure where you can even begin to call it "crappy and bloated" considering it beats SL for speed and functionality. Maybe not GUI attractiveness, but that's about it. It sounds like more fanboy ranting, and not really reasoned analysis.

Obviously you are free to believe what you want, but there are a number of things that Apple is not doing very well, and certainly worse than others. But they do have wildly successful marketing and branding to back up nice looking products. That's really what it comes down too. They are able to get a very small segment of the population to buy their stuff and pay way more than their real value. Heck, I'm in that group, the difference is I am willing to admit I overpay for it, and that they fool a lot of simple minded people with marketing that appeals to ego and superiority complexes, and I know it's all bunk. It's ok to admit you like Apple AND that they do some pretty messed up stuff. It's just "things". It's not who YOU are as a person. No need to vehemently defend them when they are ripping people off, or doing a poor job in some area.

P.S. I've built tons of machines and owned Mac Pros. The innards of the Mac Pro are not a marvel.

 

[VirtualRain]

Umm...the part about just going and buying a PC? That's exactly what the vast majority of the people of the world do. Windows is over 90% market share I believe?

The stuff about software elegance, design, material selection? All kool-aid. May I ask what your profession is? There is no magic in Apple software. More "elegant" is absolute rubbish. Yes they design nice looking machines, often at the cost of functionality (read current iMac's and even Mac Mini's...core 2 duos still??). Their material selection for the innards is below the quality of what you can get in parts purchased at Fry's for PC. There is no way an Apple OEM board compares well to an Asus, Gigabyte, or EVGA board. You really should check out the difference. Again, you show fanboy colors by calling Microsoft's OS "crappy and bloated." Windows 7 screams (to use a Steve Jobs favorite). Have you used it? It runs faster than Snow Leopard on Apple's own hardware, and is very well done. Not sure where you can even begin to call it "crappy and bloated" considering it beats SL for speed and functionality. Maybe not GUI attractiveness, but that's about it. It sounds like more fanboy ranting, and not really reasoned analysis.

Obviously you are free to believe what you want, but there are a number of things that Apple is not doing very well, and certainly worse than others. But they do have wildly successful marketing and branding to back up nice looking products. That's really what it comes down too. They are able to get a very small segment of the population to buy their stuff and pay way more than their real value. Heck, I'm in that group, the difference is I am willing to admit I overpay for it, and that they fool a lot of simple minded people with marketing that appeals to ego and superiority complexes, and I know it's all bunk. It's ok to admit you like Apple AND that they do some pretty messed up stuff. It's just "things". It's not who YOU are as a person. No need to vehemently defend them when they are ripping people off, or doing a poor job in some area.

P.S. I've built tons of machines and owned Mac Pros. The innards of the Mac Pro are not a marvel.

Dude, you are a living paradox. I don't understand you at all. On one hand, you've purchased a Mac, but I've run into you enough around here to safely say you are the most vocal and staunch detractor I know. You slag Apple and the Mac at every opportunity.

If your ideal PC is an Asus motherboard, in a Thermaltake case, running Win7, then I really don't know why you purchased a Mac, why you still own it, and why you hang out in a Mac Pro enthusiast forum. You need help man. You should be over at XtremeSystems.

Anyway, we've debated this at length almost too many times to count now.

 

[ZennZero]

P.S. I've built tons of machines and owned Mac Pros. The innards of the Mac Pro are not a marvel.

Me too, and many of those PCs have been in high-end $200+ cases. Structurally, the internals of the Mac Pro are easily among the best for organization and build quality (and aesthetics, for what that is worth). Having said that, they are a pretty big PITA to work on.

 

[mattbatt]

I can only conclude your #1 problem with the Mac Pro is that it costs more than you'd like to pay since all of the specs you are concerned about (HD, RAM, CPU, and BR) can all be added BTO or aftermarket.

Since you've been a Mac user for 20 years, and surely paid a premium for a G5, I'm almost certain you don't need me to explain to you what Apple's pricing strategy is and that it's unlikely to suddenly change with the 2010 refresh.

Ya, lets all see what happens here (hopefully soon). Now this may seem controversial, but I do have the money and in fact, insurance gave me money that should cover a base new model. I will then be using my own money to buy the medium grade model (which I expect to be $3200). However, I also think about those people who don't have money laying around or insurance to cover burned out motherboards - I think of people who are paying well over $1,000 more for something with similar specs.

I also think anyone who buys the current model from the apple store at that price is sadly being ripped off.

It's like this (you guys used a car analogy here is my music analogy - sort of): I'm looking for a new guitar tube amp and am selling my fender HRD. It goes for about $599 at the main stores new. Well I go into a local music shop (well known), and they have the 'vintage' model (same tubes and voicing but just looks tan). The owner even said it is the same amp.

Their price?

$999.00

I was shocked. Especially since I bought mine used for $400

I'm just saying, in this economy when people are losing houses and jobs, saving money should be important. We trade our time - our lives - for a dollar amount, that time we can never get back. So when I say "Apple costs an arm and a leg' it sort of is a literal statement

 

[apolloa]

You know, the negativity you guy's are showing Apple in all these threads is probably the same amount of negativity I currently have towards the English football squad, however whilst mine is based of facts and poor performance, yours is based on nothing at all...

 

[mattbatt]

You know, the negativity you guy's are showing Apple in all these threads is probably the same amount of negativity I currently have towards the English football squad, however whilst mine is based of facts and poor performance, yours is based on nothing at all...

fact: late 2008 technology being sold as current and for top dollar.

$3700 for a 3.33Ghz quad core when the new 6 core is shipping and PC workstations are charging $2000.

 

[Cavepainter]

You know, the negativity you guy's are showing Apple in all these threads is probably the same amount of negativity I currently have towards the English football squad, however whilst mine is based of facts and poor performance, yours is based on nothing at all...

My condolences on the Brit's less than spectacular play so far in the World Cup. But sometimes thats just the way the game works.... If it makes you feel better, the US squad today, after being behind 2-0, had a storybook, come-from-behind, end-of-game, game-winning goal nullified by a ref, which resulted in a tie, thereby jeopardizing a comfortable second seed in their pool and possibly the team's opportunity to advance.

But anyway, back on topic, I can only speak for myself, but my issues with Apple on the Pro model pretty much come down to price. Reiterating what has already been said here before (again and again!), a 2009 product should not have a 2010 price tag. In technology, prices should come down over time to reflect the value. Is the Mac Pro fast? Yes. Is it a great deal anymore? No.

A dusty 2009 car sitting on a dealers lot should not be the same price as a 2010 model thats sitting in showroom out front. Nobody wants last years model unless the price has a reduction. Why is that such an unpopular concept here?

Remember, we're not talking about a company we need to feel sorry for because they are barely staying afloat. Apple is absolutely bursting at the seams with cash right now. And thats great. I've liked their products for almost 12 years now, and I love OSX. But if they buck convention, and do the UNTHINKABLE, that is- to drop the price on a 450 day old model, and throw a small number of their most loyal pro users a bone, its OK, folks, relax- it will not make them file Chapter 11.

The argument put forth on here over and over again is "Well, Apple historically doesn't reduce their prices as the model ages, so why should they now?" In a lousy economy with double digit unemployment, I humbly suggest Apple buck convention. Really, what exactly are some people here really arguing for, anyway? Do you actually WANT Apple to not price competitively? Do you not want them to give you a better graphics card next year than the one they offer today? Do you really want Apple to do this on all their product lines?

How do we as customers of any Apple products win, here?

 

[apolloa]

fact: late 2008 technology being sold as current and for top dollar.

$3700 for a 3.33Ghz quad core when the new 6 core is shipping and PC workstations are charging $2000.

And so what? It's hardly evidence that Apple has stated it will stop selling the Mac Pro is it. Which is what I'm getting at.

 

[Icaras]

So since the iPhone won't be releasing this Tuesday, rather a Thursday, does anyone here think this Tuesday may be in the clear for the Mac Pro at last?

 

[the editor]

So since the iPhone won't be releasing this Tuesday, rather a Thursday, does anyone here think this Tuesday may be in the clear for the Mac Pro at last?

no

 

[Icaras]

no

Great, thanks! I thought I was going crazy for a second there

 

[underblu]

... Why would they change their business model if it clearly works. Their stock has never been higher and they have never sold more units before. Your logic falls completely against any business reason.

Apple keeps their lips tight as part of their selling strategy. People obsess over the idea of a new product coming out that when apple finally does release it, everyone and their mother pulls the trigger on impulse. Honestly though, it works and it works well.

And no, Apple usually doesn't have the absolute fastest or biggest anything. But, this also means they don't see the falling out when the latest or greatest has bugs or problems. Their build quality is top notch it almost everything they make is pleasing aesthetically.

The reason prosumers stick with Apple despite their shortcomings is sheer lack of competition. Apple makes a superior software product in OSX (more debatable now that Win7 is here). They don't use cheap plastics or poor engineering in their products which means I can count on my machine to last me. This idea in the general personal computer industry is unused. Most companies but apple product a product at absolute bottom dollar with razor thin margins. However quality suffers because of this and creates poor customer interactions with the product stamped with their name all over it. Make it right the first time and if it takes a little more, charge a little more. In the end people will be happier and much more loyal; this is the focus Apple has used for years and will for the foreseeable future.

Apple's stock is at an all time high because they changed their business model from essentially a PC Box maker with an integrated OS to a mobile devices and media distribution company.

Frankly, Apple could have made substantial inroads into the corporate PC market especially given Microsoft's misteps with Vista had Apple been a little more forthcoming and professional in dealing with the IT departments at these companies. Having worked with many large corporate IT departments I can tell you they absolutely require clear visibility going forward from their vendors as it pertains to technology upgrades. For the most part they have little patience for Apple's secrecy, the cult of Steve Jobs, etc. (Small creative firms Apple's core Pro customers would also benefit from this visibility)

Again at this point in time it matters little to Apple as long as throngs of iPhone and iPad users continue to download billions of apps and songs and wait breathlessly for the latest refresh from Stevie.

 

[xgman]

Apples new pro line philosophy seems to be: to see how long can they can stretch out these updates before loosing the market share entirely.

 

[Full of Win]

Apples new pro line philosophy seems to be: to see how long can they can stretch out these updates before loosing the market share entirely.

Welcome to the New Apple Consumer Electronics! I wish Apple would tell us what we already know; they have given up in the professional market. Their 'pro' 30 inch ACD has not been updated in 4+ years, their pro video software still runs on 32 bit Carbon, the case design for the 'pro' desktop has not been redesigned in 7 years, they have cut loose X-Serve RAID, and they discounted the design awards at WWDC (or shall I say WWiOSC).

The writing is on the wall - they don't care about this market segment.

 

[Deepshade]

You know, the negativity you guy's are showing Apple in all these threads is probably the same amount of negativity I currently have towards the English football squad, however whilst mine is based of facts and poor performance, yours is based on nothing at all...

They may play like ****, but least they've been updated in the last year and a third and you know they're gonna be about for some time to come.

 

[hugodrax]

Actually the insides of a Mac pro are remind me more of the insides of high end workstations. back when you would pay 25 Grand for a workstation.

Even the Dell precisions which sell around Mac Pro price points, the insides look cheap with all kinds of messy wiring and cheaper build quality inside.

There is a significant build difference.

 

[hugodrax]

Apple's stock is at an all time high because they changed their business model from essentially a PC Box maker with an integrated OS to a mobile devices and media distribution company.

Frankly, Apple could have made substantial inroads into the corporate PC market especially given Microsoft's misteps with Vista had Apple been a little more forthcoming and professional in dealing with the IT departments at these companies. Having worked with many large corporate IT departments I can tell you they absolutely require clear visibility going forward from their vendors as it pertains to technology upgrades. For the most part they have little patience for Apple's secrecy, the cult of Steve Jobs, etc. (Small creative firms Apple's core Pro customers would also benefit from this visibility)

Again at this point in time it matters little to Apple as long as throngs of iPhone and iPad users continue to download billions of apps and songs and wait breathlessly for the latest refresh from Stevie.

Corporate PC users buy dells HP because you can get them for 380 bucks in bulk. And supporting applications such as Exchange server/office/sharepoint,etc.. really run best natively in windows.

Apple will never be able to compete in the corporate market. They are better served staying smaller and winning the consumer market which is a much larger segment and more profitable as well.

Microsoft/dell/hp can keep the corporate markets. And how is dell stock doing for investors?

 

[ValSalva]

Actually the insides of a Mac pro are remind me more of the insides of high end workstations. back when you would pay 25 Grand for a workstation.

Even the Dell precisions which sell around Mac Pro price points, the insides look cheap with all kinds of messy wiring and cheaper build quality inside.

There is a significant build difference.

Agreed. I was amazed the first time I saw the inside of a Mac Pro. I used to think the Voodoo PC wiring and interior jobs were amazing. The Mac Pro even puts them to shame.

 

[xgman]

You know to respond to some of the "you are showing negativity towards apple" posts, I currently own a mac pro, macbook pro, 3 iphones with an iphone 4 on the way, an ipad, an ipod, and my so has an imac and an ipod touch. So I clearly support Apple, and do feel that I am entitled to "whine" or "bash" or whatever you want to call it, about a slow Mac pro updating cycle, especially seeing as how the Mac pro costs more than all that other stuff put together.