Minnesota and Arizona Bills Aim to Let Developers Skirt Apple's In-App Purchase Rules

[jonblatho]

I discovered it. It wasn’t that hard.

The answer is no, I didn’t. Apple could implement this in StoreKit and ship it in iOS 14.5 if they felt like it.

StoreKit already handles IAP (obtaining available purchases, making purchases and restoring purchases), and it clearly knows how to present an overlay over an app because that’s how App Store app pages and App Clips overlays get displayed within an app. So why doesn’t Apple allow developers to present such an overlay within their apps to cancel a subscription?

Again, this is something I’d love to implement if Apple would let me.

 

[NotTooLate]

No but did you pay Microsoft or Apple when you used your Mac or PC to shop on amazon? No? Why not?

Because it is an operating system. Just like iOS and iPadOS.

Apple should have the right to police their own App Store, even to the extent they do today...as long as users can choose to "shop" in other App Store if those rules become too draconian. People should own the devices they purchase, not corporations.

The issue here is not the consumer , don’t try to make it about anything but developers trying to make more money , the entire App catalog is in one place currently , that’s the best case scenario for the consumer , not sure why would I want more stores that are being ran by even gridier sw developers will help my day 2 day experience , going to the Facebook store and then the epic store and then the Adobe store and then browsing the Microsoft store and maybe some google store sprinkled with the dollar store , sounds so fun and consume friendly , sure is the reason epic are suing apple , it’s for the consumer ! /S

 

[code-m]

Will this also mean we can buy stuff on Amazon without paying Amazon? Yay!

Well you can buy things on Amazon by using any major credit card or use Amazon Credit Card, Credit or Gift card, so what was the point you were making?

 

[code-m]

This is ridiculous. If you decide to be an app developer you know Apple/Google get a cut of the in-app purchases. It’s their platform, they’re allowed. If you don’t like it, don’t have in-app purchases. Pretty simple.

I believe this new bill is tackling the issue from a different angle. Apple charges developers a fee $99/year to submit their apps to be posted to the AppStore while adhering to its AppStore rules. iOS/iPadOS/WatchOS/TVOS/macOS apps, however also imposing the use of only ApplePay, iTunes Card, AppleCard, AppStore Card, AppleStore Card. This bill is basically saying fine its your store for example like Wal-Mart, the items on the shelf can be from any vendor/merchant as well as Wal-Mart carrying it's own house brand products, however Wal-Mart has to also accept other major credit cards while it can also offer its own branded credit card including Store Card, Store Credit, etc.

FYI, Wal-Mart charges vendors/merchants a fee to stock up their products and some pay more for end-cap displays or other promotion displays. Just like Apple charges developers a $99/year fee.

It's that simple, it's relating to the transaction payment process and that is all.

 

[code-m]

The issue here is not the consumer , don’t try to make it about anything but developers trying to make more money , the entire App catalog is in one place currently , that’s the best case scenario for the consumer , not sure why would I want more stores that are being ran by even gridier sw developers will help my day 2 day experience , going to the Facebook store and then the epic store and then the Adobe store and then browsing the Microsoft store and maybe some google store sprinkled with the dollar store , sounds so fun and consume friendly , sure is the reason epic are suing apple , it’s for the consumer ! /S

I believe you are confusing and conflating this new bill with the previous one that got rejected.

 

[code-m]

Imma lose it soon with all these bills

Not sure how it effects you, if it gets rejected things stay the same, if it gets approved you have the option to pay via ApplePay or with any other major credit card or other payment processor, you can choose ApplePay and things still stay the same for you.

Not seeing the issue here.

 

[code-m]

Pretty sure none of the politicians have a clue as to what they are trying to accomplish but they do understand where their income is coming from.

The major credit card are seeking other processors to compete in the Apple AppStore, not just pay Apple via ApplePay. Please do realize Apple makes money off AppleCard correct.

It's Apple versus the major credit card companies, at the end of the day those credit card companies are winning as they make money off Apple if it looses and other processors if wins.

Money talks on Capitol Hill and major credit card companies basically the financial backbone of the digital world.

 

[code-m]

Isn’t it only $100?

Has Apple disclosed the cost of operating the AppStore, serious question. Considering Amazon makes a truckload off AWS, I suspect Apple would not offer to operate this business if it was not making enough profit, just a hunch.

$99/year per developer for how many developers, plus ApplePay and IAP, me thinks that is not pocket change.

 

[I7guy]

The answer is no, I didn’t. Apple could implement this in StoreKit and ship it in iOS 14.5 if they felt like it.

StoreKit already handles IAP (obtaining available purchases, making purchases and restoring purchases), and it clearly knows how to present an overlay over an app because that’s how App Store app pages and App Clips overlays get displayed within an app. So why doesn’t Apple allow developers to present such an overlay within their apps to cancel a subscription?

Again, this is something I’d love to implement if Apple would let me.

They may not want that function in multiple places and decided it was better for the consumer where it now is.(as opposed to being sleazy)

 

[code-m]

Your question is wrongly framed.

You should be asking what is the difference between a computer and a phone.

The phone is constantly online and handles a lot of very sensitive communication data and financial applications. This is a device that needs twice or triple more protection than a desktop computer because phones are constantly being targeted by hackers and malware apps.

The desktop will eventually have the same issue because it will handle the same kinds of apps and data and will also be an ‘always on’ device. When that happens Apple and Microsoft will be responsible for making sure users are protected around the clock.

The engineers working on security have one of the toughest jobs in the world. They spend every day of their life looking out for cyber threats and trying to find ways to protect the operating system and user data. The best recommendation is getting apps from official channels and a well moderated vetted App Store.

Every other option increases risk. The only people who deny that are bat **** crazy libertarian conspiracy theorists who don’t understand security (or anything in life generally)

Not sure how you use your phone or computer, but macOS has the ability to wake-up via network connection and conduct updates while it is in sleep mode. You can adjust these setting on both macOS and iOS. Was it not Apple who ran advertisements for iPad calming "What is a computer?" Granted one is a phone and the other a tablet, however the core of iOS and iPadOS is shared. technically a smart watch like AppleWatch is also a computer its just what is capable on the various devices. Just observations to your comment.

 

[ArPe]

The major credit card are seeking other processors to compete in the Apple AppStore, not just pay Apple via ApplePay. Please do realize Apple makes money off AppleCard correct.

It's Apple versus the major credit card companies, at the end of the day those credit card companies are winning as they make money off Apple if it looses and other processors if wins.

Money talks on Capitol Hill and major credit card companies basically the financial backbone of the digital world.

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

Doesn’t matter who processes transactions for your bank card the commissions are more or less the same. What Apple Pay does on iOS and macOS is reduce friction for the end user.

Your bank and the tech companies both have the same massive shareholders.

 

[jonblatho]

They may not want that function in multiple places and decided it was better for the consumer where it now is.(as opposed to being sleazy)

Ah yes, the $2T-market-cap mega-corporation has consumers’ best interests in mind.

Holy ****, hahaha.

 

[code-m]

99 for small devs 300 for larger orgs.

Those fee's are a tax write-off for both small developers and large corporations. Unless an app is not profitable, then it's a loss. It's mainly to see how serious and committed some developers are as it is a motivation technique.

 

[code-m]

🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

Doesn’t matter who processes transactions for your bank card the commissions are more or less the same. What Apple Pay does on iOS and macOS is reduce friction for the end user.

This does not tell the full story, some large retailers do get a reduced fee, some credit cards like AMEX do not budge on the processing fee while other like MasterCards are more flexible, Visa is a mixed bag. I would consider Apple to be a large retailer and hence may very well have negotiated a reduced fee.

For example for payment processors to use ApplePay, MasterCard may reduce its fee for Apple to 1% while its regular fee is 1.5%, Visa may reduce it's fee to 1% while its regular fee is 1.6%. Apple charges merchant/retailer POS fee 1.2% for using ApplePay. Apple profits 0.2%, now on small items it seems like pocket change however add up those transactions and for larger purchases it multiplies, with some advertising and broad market acceptance make it easy to use via iPhone, iPad, AppleWatch, Mac hardware systems and what you have is a steady profitable revenue stream.

 

[Alan Wynn]

It’s in apple’s interest to have a strong App Store with lots of good apps. Otherwise you end up like Windows phone. Apple needs developers as much if not more than developers need Apple.

Developers produce apps for iOS because they make money there. From what we know, despite the market share being much smaller, the App Store does double the sales of the Google Play store (meaning about 4 times as much per user).

There are two reasons for this:

1. Much less (close to zero) piracy.
2. Apple has created a better, more seamless, customer experience that has convinced users they are safe purchasing from the App Store.

Anything that changes that will not increase the money developers make, it will just degrade the overall experience.

 

[alexhardaker]

Of course it is.

Economic illiteracy is running rampant in America. Apple literally created this market from nothing, and they should be able to run it as they see fit. It really is no different - as a theory - than if Apple had built the world's largest shopping mall at a physical location and the rest of society now thinks they get a say in what Apple can and cannot do with that property.

As America continues a dangerous flirtation with socialism, it is not a leap of logic to see that eventually governmental control of the App Store will be seen as acceptable by the economically illiterate. Sadly, when it starts being their property controlled it will be too late to do anything about it.

So please wonder no more. So long as America continues down this path what you contemplate is sure to become reality.

Something tells me you don’t know what socialism is.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Only takes one state to pass this legislation for the domino effect to start. Apple under Cook has amassed a lot of enemies.

Actually, there is a question of constitutionality (it is a state regulating interstate commerce) and unless the state is very large, Apple might just decide to withdraw from the state and kick all developers registered there out of the store.

 

[warp9]

Want to literally 'Buy A Politician'? You can, in America. If you have enough money, you can literally buy a politician.

Maybe we should. Maybe we should "wallstreetbets" the government and buy up enough politicians to shut down these pre-communism rumblings for good.

 

[warp9]

So is that mean if I use eBay to sell my stuff, I don't need to pay the fee to eBay?

If Epic also wanted to sell stuff on ebay, then yes, you could.

 

[code-m]

Developers produce apps for iOS because they make money there. From what we know, despite the market share being much smaller, the App Store does double the sales of the Google Play store (meaning about 4 times as much per user).

There are two reasons for this:

1. Much less (close to zero) piracy.
2. Apple has created a better, more seamless, customer experience that has convinced users they are safe purchasing from the App Store.

Anything that changes that will not increase the money developers make, it will just degrade the overall experience.

While I am an iOS user for the longest time, I have come across many non-savvy iPhone and Android users (most features lost on them). Each platform has its strengths and weakness'.

 

[warp9]

iOS/iPadOS/WatchOS/TVOS/macOS apps, however also imposing the use of only ApplePay, iTunes Card, AppleCard, AppStore Card, AppleStore Card.

This isn't true. I use a standard visa and mastercard on my apple ID. Half those things you listed don't even exist anyways. What's an AppleStore Card?

 

[Alan Wynn]

Sometimes I wonder if people like you realize that apple’s 30% only applies to IAP if the developer offers IAPs. They’re still able to go the Spotify route. So this really isn’t going to cause what you’re saying it’s gonna cause. It’s just pure FUD and nothing more

Apple requires that, other than “reader apps” - those like Netflix or Spotify that do nothing other than act as players for remote content, every app that has an option for users to purchase digital goods must offer the option for in-app purchase through the App Store. For cross platform apps, an option of purchasing directly from the developer‘s web site maybe offered, but cannot be promoted inside the app.

 

[Alan Wynn]

The difference is you didn't drink the Kool-Aid and like free competition.

There is free competition it is just not at the place you have decided it should be. You can pick a Linux phone that has no restrictions, an Android OSP Phone with minimal restrictions, an Android Phone with some restrictions or an iOS device with many restrictions. Totally your choice.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Developers can't choose to sell their app directly themselves on a site that they're paying to operate because Apple won't allow them to do so.

They can offer them as Web Apps and sell them directly, or if they do not think that iOS will be profitable for them with Apple’s restrictions, they can choose not to offer it at all for the platform.

 

[Alan Wynn]

IMO It would be nice to install apps without having to go thru the App Store. It doesn't have to be default but an option hidden in the Settings would be cool.

No, it would be awful. Once that was an option, many developers would require that and it would ruin the experience.