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Mobile Executives on the iPhone's Software Distribution

I really can´t see a valid reason for Apple to keep the NDA after the public release of the SDK.

Lifting the NDA would immensely help all the developers community to understand this beast and how to deal with it's horns...

I believe that it is only a matter of time for apple to extinguish this NDA... maybe all this crap about SJ health made them forget about the need to lift the NDA...
 
There is no reason for apple to lift the NDA right now. It's been a few short weeks, and the time to get apps approved by apple is already several weeks from when changes are submitted. Making it easier for more people to try and cram in the door is not the best idea.
This idea doesn't sit well with a lot of people who want to play too, but it's the reality of the situation at the moment. Give it a little time and everything will be fine. But trying to handle more people at the moment is going to make things worse for everyone, including the end users.
 
Carrier problems

mike12806 said:
The difference is every carrier with the exception of the ATT+Apple combo wants a recurring revenue type model with games, ringtones, applications, etc etc.
More specifically, most carriers (except the iPhone carriers) want tight control over everything. The phone is there to be monetized, and if it's going to be monetized the carrier wants a cut.

Go up to some random RAZR or N95 user and ask them how to get and install an application on their phone. With RAZR users, less than 1% will even know you can install apps on their phone. N95 users should be better, but not by much.

With the iPhone, you click on the store icon and it downloads/installs OTA. How much easier can it get? The hardest part of the iPhone app store is finding an app.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
koko76 said:
There is no reason for apple to lift the NDA right now. It's been a few short weeks, and the time to get apps approved by apple is already several weeks from when changes are submitted. Making it easier for more people to try and cram in the door is not the best idea.
This idea doesn't sit well with a lot of people who want to play too, but it's the reality of the situation at the moment. Give it a little time and everything will be fine. But trying to handle more people at the moment is going to make things worse for everyone, including the end users.
Click to expand...

No reason to lift the NDA? Lord, you have been drinking the Apple juice a bit much. I'll give you a reason:

Lifting the NDA will help improve the overall quality of third party apps.

How 'bout that? Some of the crashing, slowdowns, etc. issues are due to the Apple firmware. The other part is due to third party applications. Don't you want a more stable platform? There is *absolutely* no good reason why the NDA should still be there at this point.
 
koko76 said:
There is no reason for apple to lift the NDA right now. It's been a few short weeks, and the time to get apps approved by apple is already several weeks from when changes are submitted. Making it easier for more people to try and cram in the door is not the best idea.
This idea doesn't sit well with a lot of people who want to play too, but it's the reality of the situation at the moment. Give it a little time and everything will be fine. But trying to handle more people at the moment is going to make things worse for everyone, including the end users.
Click to expand...

Hum... it depends... I believe that lifting the NDA will help a general improve in app quality, and this will direct reflect in the amount of time that Apple employees spend validating an app...

The better the app the easier to validate and publish.

My 2 cents.
 
w00master said:
No reason to lift the NDA? Lord, you have been drinking the Apple juice a bit much. I'll give you a reason:

Lifting the NDA will help improve the overall quality of third party apps.

How 'bout that? Some of the crashing, slowdowns, etc. issues are due to the Apple firmware. The other part is due to third party applications. Don't you want a more stable platform? There is *absolutely* no good reason why the NDA should still be there at this point.
Click to expand...

Why is it that any time anyone responds in favor of something apple has done, they must be told "I'll bet you drank the apple kool-aid" and resort to insulting people to attempt to get a point across? Don't have anything better?
I do see your point, but I'm also taking a different view, perhaps a larger perspective. Sometimes it's better to try and keep things small, listen to a few people, and improve things before everyone starts talking about it.
Think about it for a second. Would you rather people rush to put books out there on a point "0" release that will be superseded in a short while only to bitch and moan that big bad apple made their books irrelevant?
Or should everything just happen NOW, because I want it NOW, rush it out the door NOW, complain because it still isn't what I want NOW.
Good things take time. Be patient.
 
mike12806 said:
The difference is every carrier with the exception of the ATT+Apple combo wants a recurring revenue type model with games, ringtones, applications, etc etc. That's why carriers such as Verizon screw their customers with ringtones and games that "expire", or require a monthly fee. Not only that, if a developer was to provide a free application, how do they distribute it? Most carriers lock down the USB and Bluetooth on their handsets, rendering file transfers disabled. :mad:
Click to expand...

if by "most carriers" you mean "most carriers in the us", then yes. you know that there're some 700-800 carriers in the world, so even with all us carriers being ******s, it's nowhere near "most carriers"...

still, it's incorrect to state that apple's the only one providing possibility for free downloads, that is basic functionality in just about any smart/feature phone, and has been for quite a while. point the finger at carriers if you want, not the other cell phone platforms.

and you can also blame the developers, there's been a huge potential market for their products, if they just had bothered to look outside the us market. if they had started to provide their software outside the market, and had those proven popular, the us customers would have been demanding this functionality from their carriers way earlier.
 
That guy from Nokia sure sounded defensive.

Funny, only a few months ago, the big complaint about Apple was that they weren't opening the iPhone/touch platform to developers. Now that they have, the big complaint seems to be that the developers are paying too much attention. Sometimes you can't win, even when you're winning!
 
Fabio_gsilva said:
I really can´t see a valid reason for Apple to keep the NDA after the public release of the SDK.

Lifting the NDA would immensely help all the developers community to understand this beast and how to deal with it's horns...

I believe that it is only a matter of time for apple to extinguish this NDA... maybe all this crap about SJ health made them forget about the need to lift the NDA...
Click to expand...

There was no "public release of the SDK". If you read the publicly available posts on the Apple Cocoa mailing lists you would know that the NDA is still there, not because it was forgotten, but fully intentionally; including severe warnings from moderators that going against the NDA may be investigated. I can only guess, but my guess would be that Apple management and developers have discussed the benefits of the NDA, and the disadvantages of having less communication between third party developers.

I know as well as Apple developers how easy or hard iPhone development is for someone who knows C, Objective-C, Cocoa and who isn't afraid to ask Cocoa and Objective-C questions when needed; and I know that Apple believes the NDA is more important for them. You can draw whatever conclusions you like.
 
sjo said:
if by "most carriers" you mean "most carriers in the us", then yes. you know that there're some 700-800 carriers in the world, so even with all us carriers being ******s, it's nowhere near "most carriers"...

still, it's incorrect to state that apple's the only one providing possibility for free downloads, that is basic functionality in just about any smart/feature phone, and has been for quite a while. point the finger at carriers if you want, not the other cell phone platforms.

and you can also blame the developers, there's been a huge potential market for their products, if they just had bothered to look outside the us market. if they had started to provide their software outside the market, and had those proven popular, the us customers would have been demanding this functionality from their carriers way earlier.
Click to expand...

I was referring to US carriers, more specifically, Sprint and Verizon. I think most people are wary of cellular applications since they've always seemed to be overpriced, under-featured, and basically just useful for things like games. In reference to smartphones, I've never used Symbian, but Windows Mobile and Palm don't nearly match the sophistication and sleekness of most iphone apps and just the iphone interface overall.

Once again, Apple has built a solid "end to end" architecture in iphone/ipod touch application deployment, something other phone manufacturers and providers haven't.
 
koko76 said:
Why is it that any time anyone responds in favor of something apple has done, they must be told "I'll bet you drank the apple kool-aid" and resort to insulting people to attempt to get a point across? Don't have anything better?
Click to expand...

It's not like Apple fan boys behave any better...
 
koko76 said:
Why is it that any time anyone responds in favor of something apple has done, they must be told "I'll bet you drank the apple kool-aid" and resort to insulting people to attempt to get a point across? Don't have anything better?
Click to expand...

Extreme positions are what are posted here generally. Not moderate ones.

If one were moderate, one would state WHICH position is FANBOY and discuss the particular aspect of that subset which is actually fanboy, so the accuser can address the FEELING they conveyed in the contemporaneous internet post at the time he was probably drunk and tired.

If one were not moderate, one might take an offhand comment and use that to declare the poster 100% fanboy 100% of the time with no chance of parole.

You choose your poison. :)

Rocketman
 
I am still interested in how Google does with their phone as I am a big Google person

I will 100% keep my iPhone over their phone but I suspect any good competition to the iPhone will help us as consumers
 
koko76 said:
Why is it that any time anyone responds in favor of something apple has done, they must be told "I'll bet you drank the apple kool-aid" and resort to insulting people to attempt to get a point across? Don't have anything better?
Click to expand...

Nope.

;)


koko76 said:
I do see your point, but I'm also taking a different view, perhaps a larger perspective. Sometimes it's better to try and keep things small, listen to a few people, and improve things before everyone starts talking about it.
Click to expand...

I'm just in the philosophy that the more people collaborate; the more knowledge that is shared; the more information gets out. The better the applications and overall platform will be. Also, especially in sharing and discussions on development, why does it have to come under the entire umbrella of Apple? Sometimes things/issues/etc are better discussed outside of the "parents eye."

koko76 said:
Think about it for a second. Would you rather people rush to put books out there on a point "0" release that will be superseded in a short while only to bitch and moan that big bad apple made their books irrelevant?
Click to expand...

Not sure why your only talking about "books," but it goes beyond that. Developers (b/c of the NDA) can't for example setup their own forums to discuss development of their own app. Think about that for a second. Do you seriously think this is beneficial?


koko76 said:
Or should everything just happen NOW, because I want it NOW, rush it out the door NOW, complain because it still isn't what I want NOW.
Good things take time. Be patient.
Click to expand...

This isn't a race, but the point is: the SDK is already out. Why have an NDA now? It's pointless, and it just simply hinders development. There are simply NO benefits with this terrible NDA. None.
 
OrleansMac said:
I am still interested in how Google does with their phone as I am a big Google person
Click to expand...

Except that Google isn't actually developing a phone, just an operating system for a phone, with hardware by others, TBA. And how much experience does Google have with developing operating systems? Just about as much as they do with consumer electronics.

I don't understand why the expectations for Google are so high, especially when they wander off into markets in which they have absolutely no experience.
 
vvebsta said:
ads on pandora would be gay! they better not
Click to expand...
What, do you think you are somehow entitled to it?
That, perhaps, they run the program out of money scrounged up from inside their sofa?

I have a feeling the advertisements will probably just swap out with the album art. I doubt they'll be cutting into the tunes. And regardless, registration to Pandora costs, what, $35/year? That strips advertisements from their site and, according to the FAQ, will strip advertisements from the iPhone. That is a very reasonable price for the wonderful service they are offering and I will happily pay it when those advertisements kick in.

IJ Reilly said:
I don't understand why the expectations for Google are so high, especially when they wander off into markets in which they have absolutely no experience.
Click to expand...
Like Apple? :p

Google has some incredible talent and I have no doubt that they can create the best phone OS out there -- second to Apple's offering, which is absolutely stellar. What is going to kill it is something mentioned in this article -- that it will be running on a multitude of different devices. Part of what makes Apple so wonderful is that they can control the experience from end to end, making sure it is wonderful each step of the way. Microsoft, and Google in this position, cannot...
 
Xian Zhu Xuande said:
Like Apple? :p

Google has some incredible talent and I have no doubt that they can create the best phone OS out there -- second to Apple's offering, which is absolutely stellar. What is going to kill it is something mentioned in this article -- that it will be running on a multitude of different devices. Part of what makes Apple so wonderful is that they can control the experience from end to end, making sure it is wonderful each step of the way. Microsoft, and Google in this position, cannot...
Click to expand...

Unlike Apple -- which has been producing consumer electronics products and operating systems for over 35 years. Even so, a product like the iPhone was a risky one for Apple. They really had to get it right the first time since they probably would not get a second chance. Right now, Google is in the space where it's commonly thought that they can do no wrong. I don't agree. I see them pursuing too many projects at once and not perfecting many of them. They're a very young company, run by inexperienced people. They're going to make mistakes. I have a feeling Android may be one of them.
 
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