Montevina Platform 2008 Thread

[nutts]

Having got myself the latest (for now) C2D MBP at Christmas, I don't see myself making a move on my main machine until the CPU moves to 45nm. Until then they all seem like intermediate steps.

Of course if they release the rumoured subnotebook/13" superultrathin macbook (pro) at some point around Leopard's release, I may have to bite on that no matter what fabrication it utilises

 

[Emrtr4]

I'm not waiting for this chipset per se, but this chipset (or possibly the next version) will be rolling out around the time I go to college and around the time my CD MBP will be becoming REALLY obsolete. I don't really want to buy a new computer unless it is going to give me a 50-100% increase over what I have already. For example I went from a 2.2ghz P4 Dell with 512 RAM to a 2.16ghz CD MBP with 2gb. That is quite a jump, and was well worth the $2400 premium I paid for it.

However, an incremental processor or chipset update is not enough for me to upgrade. If Montevina comes out alongside top of the line mobile graphics, a thinner case, OLED screens, SSD HDD, and a hydrogen cell battery (all possibilities in the relatively near future), I'll go for it. However if it is just a faster C2D with built in HSDPA stuck into a 2006 MBP case with few other improvements, there is no way I am going to spend a small fortune on it.

Ha, I wish I had a core duo MBP. I am still running my 1.5ghz PPC 15 inch powerbook with an 80 gig hardrive & 2 gigs of RAM (albeit at a lowly 333 with crap level 2 cache). I am graduating from high-school spring 2008 and I really dont want to have buy a new computer more than a few months before I go to college so that it is as new as possible. Although, perhaps I will build a PC or buy a Macpro before then.

 

[jdechko]

I find it interesting to see a)where Intel is headed and b) when/where Apple may stop their train (seeing as how the Apple train has yet to pull into the SR station, and may bypass it altogether as nothing is definite until it's definite).

In any case, I've got a little time to wait before buying a new machine, and while a 2.33 C2D may not be the fastest out there, it'll be a really nice upgrade from the 1.2 P3m I'm currently computing on at home and I expect a good deal of increase over the 3.4 P4 at work.

After all, my next machine will probably need to last the same 4-5 years this one has.

 

[masse]

Ah hell...this powerbook will last me until then.

Sign me up.

 

[tristan]

From the link, it says that the Penryn mobile is just dual-core, not quad-core. I haven't really seen quad core mobiles on the road map.

A lot of people plan their upgrade cycles pretty far out - nothing wrong with a thread like this. I bought my PBG4 in Nov 2005, and early 2008 would make a lot of sense in terms of upgrading. Or it could happen sooner.

 

[andiwm2003]

i'm thinking about buying a notebook soon (of course i'll wait for WWDC).

then i'll have the choice of:

a) go cheap and buy a mac book and wait for penryn/montevina

b) buy a maxed out santa rosa MBP and use it for 4+ years

how much of a performance gain can be expected from a montevina based Macbook Pro over a current MBP?

performance is defined as speed. i'm not so much interested in a smaller ultrathin notebook. i want something fast that will last a while. and as a previous poster said i haven't seen a quadcore notebook cpu on the roadmap. what are the chances for quadcore in mid 2008?

 

[tristan]

The previous poster - me - is actually wrong. This article says that quad core mobile CPUs are on Intel's road map for 2008, but only at the very high end, and they still could have cooling problems. So dual core is more realistic, quad is possible.

http://www.itworld.com/Comp/1982/070416intelsantarosa/

FYI Penryn was shown off at Beijing in April or May, I forget exactly. Is it fast? Faster than an angry Bruce Lee on Red Bull.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2968&p=2

At IDF Beijing Intel unveiled a little more about Penryn performance; it compared a quad-core 3.33GHz (1333MHz FSB) Yorkfield with 12MB of L2 cache (2 x 6MB per dual core die) to a quad-core Core 2 Extreme QX6800 2.93GHz (1066MHz FSB) Kentsfield with 8MB of L2 cache (2 x 4MB). According to Intel’s own benchmarks, Intel saw a 15% increase in imaging related applications, 25% in 3D rendering tests, greater than 40% in games, and a greater than 40% increase in video encoding performance when SSE4 support was utilized.

Now the dumbest thing I've seen with Penryn (and Santa Rosa too) are the power saving features. It's all basically a bunch of technical buzzwords that amount to "when your CPU isn't doing anything, it doesn't use much power". Gee, thanks, how many electronics engineers did it take to come up with that one? My car doesn't use much gas either when it's not going anywhere.

 

[daneoni]

I know im skipping Santa Rosa and would probably upgrade at montevina. LEDs would've become the norm, there would probably have been a case redesign. Hopefully 45nm processors would be out and i think i recall hearing something about crossing the 1.0Ghz FSB line in Montevina added to a 6MB cache. Now that would be something

 

[andiwm2003]

I know im skipping Santa Rosa and would probably upgrade at montevina. LEDs would've become the norm, there would probably have been a case redesign. Hopefully 45nm processors would be out and i think i recall hearing something about crossing the 1.0Ghz FSB line in Montevina added to a 6MB cache. Now that would be something

that sounds interesting to me. i'm thinking the same. i could get now a macbook for ~$1100 and then get a really fast notebook (hopefully quadcore in 2008) as replacement for my PB G4 that i use most of the time like a desktop. the macbook would be fast enough for everything i do now and its quite portable.

 

[tristan]

I have to warn you... I was sort of thinking the same thing, but I messed with my uncle's MacBook this weekend and decided it would be a poor replacement for the PBG4. Once you have a PB I think it's tough to downgrade. You really get used to that beautiful screen and keyboard.

Will a PBG4 last until Penryn though? gee, that's a tough one. All I do is writing, excel, mail, browsing, etc, so for me it's okay I suppose. And I've maxed the RAM of course, which means that I can keep everything open at once.

 

[tristan]

Back on topic: from what I can tell, Intel has absolutely nothing in the pipeline until Penryn/Montevina, except perhaps a 2.6ghz CPU later this year. So from the Intel product pipeline point of view, it's either upgrade with Santa Rosa, wait for the 2.6ghz, or wait for Penryn, which hopefully will start at 3ghz.

Now LEDs are in the pipeline, but everyone in the last thread jumped all over me when I said that the next MBP update most likely won't include them. Apple has only committed to providing them at the end of this year, and only if the economics make it feasible. My belief is still that they will only make it into the 13" ultraportable this year. But sure, I hope I'm wrong.

I also read that Sprint is doing a huge buildout of WiMax this year, which I guess would coincide with a Montevina release early next year, if the timing goes well. (i.e. new laptops could sign up for WiMax from Sprint immediately.)

 

[HFU]

Back on topic: from what I can tell, Intel has absolutely nothing in the pipeline until Penryn/Montevina, except perhaps a 2.6ghz CPU later this year. So from the Intel product pipeline point of view, it's either upgrade with Santa Rosa, wait for the 2.6ghz, or wait for Penryn, which hopefully will start at 3ghz.

Intel actually has 2.6GHz/4MB/800FSB Merom both for OEM channel now. It just makes one wonder why major OEM notebook manufactures are only offering top of the line model at 2.4GHz for the SR refresh! It could be the heat and power consumption on 800FSB Merom that are not ideal for SR platform.

We probably won't see 3.0GHz on portable anytime soon. The effort seemed to be working on lowering the heat, longer battery hours, multi cores. Every effort includes idling one or more core, or ever deeper steps which will be showing on all future mobile processors. This will answer one of your previous post regarding to possibility of 45nm quad-core on MBP, yes it's possible, both software OSX (10.5) and hardware need to be able to manage deeper steps, turning off cores when they are not in use.

Following the MBP release pattern, Apple usually choose the fastest processor available from Intel at the time of launch. It would be interesting to see if Apple will release 2.6GHz SR MBP update in WWDC or around Oct along with Leopard release.

 

[tristan]

Intel actually has 2.6GHz/4MB/800FSB Merom both for OEM channel now. It just makes one wonder why major OEM notebook manufactures are only offering top of the line model at 2.4GHz for the SR refresh! It could be the heat and power consumption on 800FSB Merom that are not ideal for SR platform.

I think you're absolutely right with regards to the Merom - there's only so far you can push those processors before they start to cook like a mexican tamale, and that 2.6ghz may not be realistic. But I'm hoping that Penryn is a whole new ballgame with the die shrink, and that 3ghz or higher is possible in a mobile. Having Intel already demo a 3.33ghz, albeit in a desktop, is a good sign I think.

 

[Paxz]

For me, penryn is DEFINITELY worth waiting for, since it will dramatically speed up virtualization input/output calls. For the unwashed masses, this means that programs such as parallels/vmware will be much "snappier" and faster on penryn versus intels current line-up . To be frank, if you are not heavily dependent on running guest operating systems, then there is no compelling reason to wait for the next generation of chips.

 

[CRAZYBUBBA]

Would be an easy decision for me, since this is windowze. Breaking my heart to use it. My imac is giving me dirty stares everytime I leave the house with the interloper.

Verrryy funny.

 

[dAlen]

Will a PBG4 last until Penryn though? gee, that's a tough one. All I do is writing, excel, mail, browsing, etc, so for me it's okay I suppose. And I've maxed the RAM of course, which means that I can keep everything open at once.

O.k. - after 10+ years of print, interactive media, & more specifically...video producing on the latest and greatest Mac's...I will say this.

I now only have a Powerbook G4 667mhz - 256mb ram.
Thats it. Obviously I am not involved in media at this point. (actually for the past 2 years).

My laptop does not even meet minimum requirements for...anything. (I had stock ram, which was pitiful back then at only 256) and my processor to slow for basically all games and applications that are out there.

But I am waiting till next year.
One more thing...my monitor has been broke on this for 3 years...the hinges broke and I had to have it propped on books. (no problem as I used to have good computers to access at work.)

But recently I tripped over the laptop wire (after thinking the new mag safes sounded cool...but would never be practical as no one trips on the cord...lol)
and my screen is now black. I can see faintly that its on...but at first glance you would swear it was off.

I almost bought a computer.
However, the new imacs have the freezing problem...which appears will never be fixed by software, so that was out.

And the new laptops (the one I can currently afford) have LED screens with uneven banding and brownish yellow tints and even flickering if not a the brightest level. (I live in a cave and do not need what feels like the brights of a car, staring in my eyes.)

So I bought a samsung monitor and hooked it up.
My laptop screen is flopped down on the desk, resting on a dvd case and cords...and I am typing now.

As a media producer, this has been a bit hard for me to get past my mac addiction.

But I am pretty much commited now to waiting for Apple to get past their 1st generation screen issues with the Leds. Well that takes me into January.

And I always wanted 3Ghz, ever since it was promised from IBM years back, and this 2GHZ doesnt cut it. (i know, I know, its not the same...but its what I want.) So now the 2nd Penryn updates in Q2, 2008 look to do just that.

A frontside bus that is over 1Ghz, option for 3GHZ (in a laptop...) and hopefully better screens as the 17 inch will have it by then...the LEDS. (Im sure Apple thought a good 15 inch screen would mess up their 17 inch sales despite the HD resolution option...so they allowed the crappy versions in there this time.)

So for me, Im waiting.

And for the kid who is about to graduate from highschool thinking his powerbook is to slow at 1.5GHZ...try my broken 667. (whats more is work in media 10+ years, buying the best equipment and then transition to the computer I have now...) Im not sure that its really a necessary upgrade, but I am forgetting that you have a PowerPC and you must want to have an intel based mac for the new apps out there. So if you got the money, go for it.

Peace

dAlen

 

[HFU]

MBP Specification Update Speculation

It has been a long wait for some! Basing from the recently leaked information from Lenovo X200, SL, and new T and R series, we can safely assume the up coming Montevina MBP will include at least some the followings:

* Intel Centrino 2 with vPro up to 2.8GHz 6MB Cache (featuring faster 1066MHz FSB, 45nm)
* Cantiga Chipset PM45, GM45 (65nm)
* Optional 64GB SSD / 320GB HDD
* 512MB ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 graphics (or Nvidia equivalent model), switchable graphics to help battery life.
* DDR3 RAM (1067MHz DDR3, 1:2 CPU:Memory ratio)
* WWAN / WiMAX / WiFi / Bluetooth
* LED Panels

MB and MBA will use integrated Intel GMA 4500MHD or discrete NVIDIA GeForce 9300 graphics from the similar specs ThinkPad X and SL models. A summary of these specifications can be read from Engadget.

The existing MBP, MB, MBA are using 16:10 with resolution of 1920x1200, 1680x1050, 1440x900, 1280x800 respectively. The LCD industry is pushing for 16:9 aspect ratio which will make future notebook model more inline with HDTV, so it will likely be 1920x1080, 1680x945, 1440x810, 1280x720 resolutions. We may also watch for possible 15.6" and 17.3" LCD panels update for new 15" and 17" MBP as several first-tier notebook vendors (Acer, Asusteck, Lenovo, Sony) are planning to launch 16:9 panel Montevina notebooks starting July 2008.

Currently these major LCD panel suppliers such as Taiwan-based AUO, Chi Mei Optoelectronics (CMO), and Chunghwa Picture Tubes (CPT) and Korea-based LG. Korea-based Samsung will also start to supply 15.6" panels in the second half of this year.

It will be very interesting to see Apple's new product update based on Montevina platform any week now...

 

[Tallest Skil]

...we can safely assume the up coming Montevina MBP will not include the following:

* Optional 64GB SSD
* 512MB ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 graphics (or Nvidia equivalent model), switchable graphics to help battery life.
* WWAN / WiMAX

It will be very interesting to see Apple's new product update based on Montevina platform any week now...

Edited for accuracy. Bolded for inaccuracy. We can safely assume that these will not be included.

Is July 15 "any week now"? I hope so... I have to have it before August 7.

 

[masse]

The switching between discrete and onboard graphics is great. The nvidia 9xxxx m series and the ati 3600 hd mobility series both support this as well.

Think 6 hours of battery life. Think crysis on medium settings haha.

 

[Westsider 4 Mac]

I am waiting...

... for a signifigant leap in chipset performance. we will see what the big M brings in that regard...

 

[HFU]

Is July 15 "any week now"? I hope so... I have to have it before August 7.

Even if it is available for order on July 15th, Apple maybe shipping it in August or later. This is based on the assumption that Apple will concentrate its human resource for iPhone 3G launch in the week of July.

Think 6 hours of battery life.

Other manufactures are claiming 6.4+ hours for similar equipped Montevina system. Apple must do better!

... for a signifigant leap in chipset performance. we will see what the big M brings in that regard...

With reduced die size of Cantiga (Intel 4 Series chipset), reduced power consumption of DDR3 modules, we will see significant heat reduction for Montevina MBP, MP.

 

[Cowboy Dan]

I'm glad I found this thread. I begrudgingly count myself among the idiots waiting for Montevina.

I'm glad to finally find a thread discussing exactly what Montevina has to offer, rather than mere speculation.

It sounds like we should expect better battery life, and an all around speedbump. Is that right? I can afford to wait out the summer for that.

What, if anything, do Macs have to do with Centrino?

I expect it to be announced mid-July and to ship about a month later. No chassis change, as that will happen when Nahalem comes out—this is a good thing. I don't want 1st gen hardware.

 

[zioxide]

What, if anything, do Macs have to do with Centrino?

Centrino = Intel mobile platform = what Macs run on.

Apple doesn't use all of the components of the Centrino platform though.

Napa (2006), Santa Rosa (2007), Montevina (2008), and Calpella (2009) all refer to specific versions of the Centrino platform.

 

[HFU]

It sounds like we should expect better battery life, and an all around speedbump. Is that right? I can afford to wait out the summer for that.

I expect it to be announced mid-July and to ship about a month later. No chassis change, as that will happen when Nahalem comes out—this is a good thing. I don't want 1st gen hardware.

Aside from better battery life, speed bump, we can expect the overall system to run cooler with improvement on crucial components (Cantiga 65nm chipset, newer stepping 1066FSB Penryn, 1.5v DDR3 SODIMM and die-shrink GPU).

There is speculation on Nehelam microarchitecture update that will take advantage of on-die memory controller and QuickPath, though the first generation Nehelam will be rated at higher TDP 35W~45W+ than both Merom or Penryn running in existing MBP. It will take Nehelam refresh (32nm) before the processor is considered a good mobile platform refresh, which is due H1/2010 code name Westmere.

 

[ubercool]

I can't believe how old this thread is! It goes to show how way ahead we tend to be on the market at large.

It also proves that you need a helluva lot of patience sometimes, because we still don't have Montevina!