More Apple TV Models, Future Apple TV Software Hints

[GregA]

I wonder how they would split the AppleTV into multiple models… bigger hard drive is the only thing I can really come up with.

It's an interesting question - not because there're not plenty of ways to expand, but because it's difficult to keep with the "SIMPLE" philosophy and expand at the same time.

For instance - it'd be really easy to release a MacMini with HDMI/Component out. Based on today's specs - double the price gets you bigger hard disk and ram, 4 times the processing speed (but integrated graphics), and a DVD drive - is that worth it to most people? The posters who seem to like that idea are wanting it for its expandability and to double as a computer, not for is native functionality.

And alot of other functionality doesn't really need a different AppleTV, just a software upgrade. eg: Web access, 5.1 sound, external USB hard disk, DivX support, widgets, iTunes purchasing, remote desktop.

Another way of looking at it... if there are a range of AppleTVs, where does the existing one sit in that range? Is it the high end like the widescreen iPod, or is it the "regular iPod", the Nano, or the Shuffle?

I'm going to approach it from the angle that the AppleTV will attempt to displace ONE other home theatre component. And for now, I think that's the DVD player. So my bet - AppleTV 2 with bigger hard disk & dvd player.

 

[MongoTheGeek]

I see where they are going with this. Imagine getting you AppleTV setup. Pick out a class of news stories yo are interested in. Weather for your local location, maybe a 5 minute funny podcast. It gets loaded up automatically over night and then when you get up in the morning you turn it on and hit play. Instead of waiting 30 minutes for the local news to recycle you get it right away.

Its the ultimate in cable on demand

 

[Avatar74]

I'm not bying the AppleTV if it cannot replace at least one box on my shelves. I'm sure they can replace the that freaking DVD.

It did replace one box on my shelf... It replaced my AirPort Express.

I'm already watching some movies from my DVD collection over AppleTV... but my holdbacks are two things:

1. Waiting for Dolby Digital support. Still have to use my upsampling DVD player for this.

2. For music, everything is upsampled or downsampled to 16-bit, 44.1kHz stereo PCM... this leaves me with DVD for listening to 24-bit/48kHz Linear PCM tracks.

 

[Sebas00]

if they add wireless router functionality, then I am in.

That too, would be great but I doubt they would do that. That'll be on less product to sell. But thinking of it, it will have made more sense.

 

[Avatar74]

if they add wireless router functionality, then I am in.

So you want to tax the bandwidth of the AppleTV with other wireless traffic so you don't have a clean RF transmission whose full bandwidth is dedicated to streaming video and audio to your home theater?

My rule of thumb is that it's better to have a device that does one thing exceptionally well than a device that does fifteen things poorly.

 

[Digitalclips]

Meanwhile, LoopRumors claims to have some inside information on an upcoming update to the Apple TV software

I just hope Apple don't issue an update that removes the ability to do the home hacks that have been so widely discussed. If they did release a Mk II ATV with hardware changes and software mods that make it hack proof I guess the Mk I will become collector's items!

I'll answer my own point and say i don't think for one second Apple didn't know exactly what they were doing making ATV such an open experiment. I guess we will see major new software features from Apple which is exactly why I am not messing with my ATV's software. I do need a much larger drive already though. I am seeing the need for about 200 GIGs for my entire iTunes library excluding Aperture already. Make that 500 GIGs with Aperture and with more movies to come AND 720p ... TB for sure.

 

[Sebas00]

It did replace one box on my shelf... It replaced my AirPort Express.

I'm already watching some movies from my DVD collection over AppleTV... but my holdbacks are two things:

1. Waiting for Dolby Digital support. Still have to use my upsampling DVD player for this.

2. For music, everything is upsampled or downsampled to 16-bit, 44.1kHz stereo PCM... this leaves me with DVD for listening to 24-bit/48kHz Linear PCM tracks.

Well, I don't have an airport express, only extreeme. But The aiport express doesn't take space on your shelves since it uses an outlet. Plus, I don't think the movie quality can replace the DVD Yet. So, until then, they could add a DVD slot for my netflix viewing.

 

[Digitalclips]

So you want to tax the bandwidth of the AppleTV with other wireless traffic so you don't have a clean RF transmission whose full bandwidth is dedicated to streaming video and audio to your home theater?

My rule of thumb is that it's better to have a device that does one thing exceptionally well than a device that does fifteen things poorly.

Agreed, leave that kind of design concept to Microsoft

 

[Sebas00]

So you want to tax the bandwidth of the AppleTV with other wireless traffic so you don't have a clean RF transmission whose full bandwidth is dedicated to streaming video and audio to your home theater?

My rule of thumb is that it's better to have a device that does one thing exceptionally well than a device that does fifteen things poorly.

Well if the Apple TV connects directly to the TV or AV System, I don't see how having DVD or Cablebox programing and recording will take from the Bandwith.
The only things you'll be streaming, are music and movies from Itune library.
Oops! pictures tooo.

 

[mtrctyjoe]

Agreed!

the reason i bought a wii was because there were no extra features to appletv @ macworld. If they do release internet on it and possibly access to ure mac in your living room, ie it replicates your desktop then im definatly buying. eg leopard in your living room

Give me a Window to my MAC ..... that I what I thought this was going to be. Make it that.... and I am in!

 

[peharri]

I wonder how they would split the AppleTV into multiple models… bigger hard drive is the only thing I can really come up with.

Not directly, the HD is currently not being used in any way that the end user would be forced to think about in terms of capacity.

The most obvious is to add more capabilities. An integrated DVD reader would be one of the most obvious enhancements I can think of, coupled perhaps with an integrated 5.1 channel audio system. Neither would add much complexity to the product, but both would be desirable as the public's desire for thousands of boxes underneath the TV has been overestimated of late.

I don't see them doing the DVR thing, yet. CableCARD is the only plug-and-play way of integrating a video user device with an arbitrary cable or satellite connection, and the alternative means essentially building a whole suite of different AppleTVs for different cable or satellite providers. But CableCARD hasn't really caught on. Even with a federal mandate in the US, hardly anyone has heard of the thing.

 

[Avatar74]

Well if the Apple TV connects directly to the TV or AV System, I don't see how having DVD or Cablebox programing and recording will take from the Bandwith.
The only things you'll be streaming, are music and movies from Itune library.
Oops! pictures tooo.

Right now nothing else taxes the bandwidth of the AppleTV except the content you run over it. In that regard you can find success streaming 720p even over an 802.11g network... which is not supported openly by Apple because they probably found it only barely works in the most optimal conditions.

Now, if as Syklee stated you want to see wireless router functionality to it... You're adding other network traffic onto that wireless access point. Whatever other devices you're using apart from AppleTV, using AppleTV as a wireless router reduces the bandwidth available for whatever music and video streaming you do plan to do... and it introduces a potentially unpredictable element into the mix whereby you don't have one uniform, controllable, rate-capped set of bitstream protocols (5Mbps video, 160Kbps AAC for video, 320Kbps AAC for music, etc.) capped by one application (iTunes)... and then you've got all manner of traffic that can spur dips and spikes and result in random, unpredictable interference to your TV or music experience.

Then there's routing, which will tax the CPU that currently is pretty much dedicated to the AppleTV User Interface and controlling/directing some of the background processing tasks that serve the content to your A/V components. That will almost certainly increase the heat generated from the CPU and at some point require louder active ventilation which will be a nuisance for watching movies.

Then add to that you'll have to have the DSL or cable modem in the living room and cables connecting the two. This completely defeats the idea behind the AppleTV which was to facilitate a media center type application without all the clutter of a PC parked next to your home entertainment center.

Maybe Microsoft would do this... But it's anathema to Apple's sense of industrial design.

 

[marting]

Correctly predicted 8-core ...

Apple's online store has become a hotbed of rumors, with a recent leak apparently predicting the arrival of 8-core Mac Pros.

Apple's online store has become a hotbed of rumors, with a recent leak correctly predicting the arrival of 8-core Mac Pros.

 

[sishaw]

I wonder how they would split the AppleTV into multiple models… bigger hard drive is the only thing I can really come up with.

Combine it with a DVD player. DVD for your Netflix movies, Apple TV for your iTunes shows.

 

[syklee26]

Right now nothing else taxes the bandwidth of the AppleTV except the content you run over it. In that regard you can find success streaming 720p even over an 802.11g network... which is not supported openly by Apple because they probably found it only barely works in the most optimal conditions.

Now, if as Syklee stated you want to see wireless router functionality to it... You're adding other network traffic onto that wireless access point. Whatever other devices you're using apart from AppleTV, using AppleTV as a wireless router reduces the bandwidth available for whatever music and video streaming you do plan to do... and it introduces a potentially unpredictable element into the mix whereby you don't have one uniform, controllable, rate-capped set of bitstream protocols (5Mbps video, 160Kbps AAC for video, 320Kbps AAC for music, etc.) capped by one application (iTunes)... and then you've got all manner of traffic that can spur dips and spikes and result in random, unpredictable interference to your TV or music experience.

Then there's routing, which will tax the CPU that currently is pretty much dedicated to the AppleTV User Interface and controlling/directing some of the background processing tasks that serve the content to your A/V components. That will almost certainly increase the heat generated from the CPU and at some point require louder active ventilation which will be a nuisance for watching movies.

Then add to that you'll have to have the DSL or cable modem in the living room and cables connecting the two. This completely defeats the idea behind the AppleTV which was to facilitate a media center type application without all the clutter of a PC parked next to your home entertainment center.

Maybe Microsoft would do this... But it's anathema to Apple's sense of industrial design.

well r u suggesting that people will surf the web and watch Movie at the same time? I believe when movie is being streamed, network traffic will likely be minimal.

 

[alfismoney]

But 1080p.. are you expecting iTunes to have that?

No doubt several years from now when the internet is 100 Gbs this will be the case but for now I am confused how this would be useful, please explain... Thanks

Yes, actually, I do expect iTunes to have that. I can download movie trailers from Apple in 1080p, I can get a home video camera to shoot in 1080p, I can easily obtain full length movies in 1080p, and I can play video games in 1080p. I stopped buying DVDs 3 years ago because it just doesn't offer the quality I want in a viewing experience, there's no way I'm going to waste my time with downloads or hardware selling today that can't do what BluRay and HD DVD offer. It's about as unacceptable as television manufacturers selling '1080p' screens that aren't 1920x1080 native.

Believe me, I'm an editor, I know that there is a huge amount of bandwidth and storage overhead involved in this. I also know that I can buy a TB of external disk for under $300 these days. With wireless n built into the current Apple TV, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to watch content in a superior format. You can go on all day about the engineering hurdles, fact is that other companies are already doing it and I think 720p looks very weak in comparison. I know I'm in the minority on this but I'll just sit on my hands and wait until Apple really releases something special.

 

[orb]

Needs DVD option

I think the box desperately needs a DVD option, especially a blu-ray option. Without that, I can't replace my mac mini. I'm sure others wouldn't mind replacing a dvd player. (again, especially for a blu-ray player) I've got no problem with it being an optional add on for people who really like having lots of boxes, but that would be the #1 request for me.

 

[Avatar74]

well r u suggesting that people will surf the web and watch Movie at the same time? I believe when movie is being streamed, network traffic will likely be minimal.

I think you're assuming that everyone will use the network as you do... one device at a time?

But what about the household with three computers, kids, and while someone's watching TV the others are on their computers?

Or maybe you've got a machine uploading/downloading in the background for several hours while you go and watch TV... I certainly do, and a combo AppleTV/wireless router would be a HUGE annoyance for me... nevermind the other design factors I mentioned.

Also, I have a DSL router. I have a huge number of AV cables running around behind my home theater components... I have reduced the number by using entirely optical transmission for audio BUT there's still a tremendous number of coaxial RG-6, RCA and other cables back there and DSL is particularly susceptible to EM/RF crosstalk. Even with the commonly deployed RADSL that uses a spread spectrum for downstream bandwidth, the potential for bandwidth reduction from RF interference is pretty high.

I used to troubleshoot escalations and had one case where cabling from nearby AM and maritime radio antennas caused RF bleed into the DSL signal, inhibiting bandwidth severely.

I would not want to place my DSL router anywhere near my home theater.

 

[Digitalclips]

Yes, actually, I do expect iTunes to have that. I can download movie trailers from Apple in 1080p, I can get a home video camera to shoot in 1080p, I can easily obtain full length movies in 1080p, and I can play video games in 1080p. I stopped buying DVDs 3 years ago because it just doesn't offer the quality I want in a viewing experience, there's no way I'm going to waste my time with downloads or hardware selling today that can't do what BluRay and HD DVD offer. It's about as unacceptable as television manufacturers selling '1080p' screens that aren't 1920x1080 native.

Believe me, I'm an editor, I know that there is a huge amount of bandwidth and storage overhead involved in this. I also know that I can buy a TB of external disk for under $300 these days. With wireless n built into the current Apple TV, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to watch content in a superior format. You can go on all day about the engineering hurdles, fact is that other companies are already doing it and I think 720p looks very weak in comparison. I know I'm in the minority on this but I'll just sit on my hands and wait until Apple really releases something special.

I am own an HD editing facility too and share your love of the medium. I am simply pointing out that for the present your wish for such high resolution is too early for the masses. Many friends I have sit and watch stretched NTSC SD on and high definition screen and swear they have HD!

As to downloading 1080p from iTunes store ... heck i wish they would offer even 720p! I'd take issue with true 720p looking weak though, it looks pretty damn good for the most part and would more than do for now. As I said, it will come, one day we will be talking about 2160p or higher, after all TVs just get bigger.

 

[Avatar74]

I think the box desperately needs a DVD option, especially a blu-ray option. Without that, I can't replace my mac mini. I'm sure others wouldn't mind replacing a dvd player. (again, especially for a blu-ray player) I've got no problem with it being an optional add on for people who really like having lots of boxes, but that would be the #1 request for me.

Why? So AppleTV can cost $700? as much as a... Mac Mini? What would be the point of introducing this product at a price point where one will cannibalize the other's sales?

 

[whoami]

how about screw new models....
we just need 720p content from iTunes NOW!

 

[Digitalclips]

how about screw new models....
we just need 720p content from iTunes NOW!

100% agree and I have to believe it is coming soon.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Why? So AppleTV can cost $700? as much as a... Mac Mini? What would be the point of introducing this product at a price point where one will cannibalize the other's sales?

DVD drives cost ~$20. Say $50 for arguments sake. $300+$50?$700. The TV is not a mac mini.

I agree, it needs a DVD player for it to really become successful. Even if it doesn't need one, it won't be perceived as being a good value until it has one.

 

[colinmack]

The ultimate AppleTV for me would add:

1) DVD player (replaces one device)
2) ability to plug an EyeTV into the USB port (replaces a second device)
3) remote desktop connection (anything/everything else, just not natively)

Oh, and for Pete's sake...sell iTunes TV shoiws in Canada...

 

[miketcool]

I would not want to place my DSL router anywhere near my home theater.

I imagine a lot of time was spent at Apple looking at those problems. I cant tell you the number of hours I have spent trying to correct interference issues with our AV equipment. Adding a router to the tv is surely asking for a headache.