Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

tkn

macrumors newbie
Aug 16, 2003
12
0
Please just bump the Mac Mini

Frankly I just want Leopard to come with Backrow and for them to make the Mini with a video card. I would so much rather have a Mini than an AppleTV for so many reasons, including being able to use it for NAS, the DVD drive, and Growl notifications.
 

outlyer

macrumors newbie
Jan 10, 2007
25
0
A software update to fix the TV show browsing would be nice, as would a way to use an external drive. Why no seasons? Why reverse order? The hard drive space definitely needs a bump, at least for those of us who only use laptops.

I don't know why people are so concerned about adding everything to this machine. An Airport Extreme should remain separate, as should a DVD player. If my DVD player breaks, I'd lose my whole home stereo if it was all in one unit. Also, if I wanted to upgrade to a Blu-Ray player, I'd end up with two DVD players for no reason.

Sticking a Tivo-type tuner in there is also a waste. How would they handle the myriad of formats? Here in Canada, we don't have CableCard and even if we did, the whole box has to be verified by CableCard. If you bought one of these would you be happy with a completely sealed device that you couldn't modify without losing your tuner?
 

syklee26

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2005
902
2,436
im not sure if Apple will be so up for putting DVD player in ATV. Wouldn't this be bad for Movie sales?
 

Avatar74

macrumors 68000
Feb 5, 2007
1,608
402
DVD drives cost ~$20. Say $50 for arguments sake. $300+$50?$700. The :apple: TV is not a mac mini.

I agree, it needs a DVD player for it to really become successful. Even if it doesn't need one, it won't be perceived as being a good value until it has one.

I was referring to the suggestion made by another that they use Blu-Ray drives. THAT would drive up the cost at least $150 and the MSRP at least $300.
 

SpudNYC

macrumors newbie
Jun 28, 2000
13
0
what I'm missing

the only thing I'm really missing is 5.1 surround. Everything else I'm comfortable waiting for. The sound on the movies stinks.
 

jimsowden

macrumors 68000
Sep 6, 2003
1,766
18
NY
I think that the reasoning of the apple store page layout is specious, at best. If you look at all the other products, like the airport extreme they compare it to, it's in a different part of apple's product map, basically an accessory, where the Apple TV fits into one of the main categories and is listed with computers on the main page. I have a feeling if there was only one mac mini or iMac then its page would look like that as well.
 

Mgkwho

macrumors 6502a
Mar 2, 2005
594
25
I see Apple either liscensing some sort of built in ":apple:tv" technology to TV manufacturers or building a TV themselves. I don't like set top boxes, so the biggest reason I'm not getting an :apple:tv is that it's another box to have to get. (I do understand that because it is new, it had to be introduced as a separate product for adoption, and it can be used in existing TVs).

2) price (would not hesitate to pay an extra $300 for a TV though)
3) bad photo management
4) no HD content from Apple / trailers don't stream in HD
5) can't purchase through it
6) don't want another remote (is there a way to program the apple remote into a universal-type remote?)

amongst other reasons.

In other news...LoopRumors has become the new MacOSRumors. Admit it.

It's run by one guy who talks as if it's a major corporation. His iBalls are perfect examples of what the site is: crap.

-=|Mgkwho
 

sishaw

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2005
1,147
19
...

I agree, it needs a DVD player for it to really become successful. Even if it doesn't need one, it won't be perceived as being a good value until it has one.

Not only that, but there's a limit to how many boxes one can plug into one's TV. I'm all full, myself.
 

Avatar74

macrumors 68000
Feb 5, 2007
1,608
402
I see Apple either liscensing some sort of built in ":apple:tv" technology to TV manufacturers or building a TV themselves.

Doubt it. The benefit of AppleTV standalone is that it integrates with many types of HD displays.

Licensing out AppleTV's user interface, etc. to other manufacturers is unlikely as Apple has under Steve Jobs direction regained the wisdom that they are first a hardware company. They tried licensing Mac OS to other manufacturers and it was a disaster because the lack of quality control ruined Apple's reputation just like it's beginning to scar Microsoft's reputation with endless patches, driver problems, etc.

Apple is about integrated solutions where they can control the quality of the user experience from top to bottom... and they do this well.

However, integrating a TV is a risk because there's too many competing options... They do computer displays because they have other hardware that helps push display sales. But look at the price points on displays... tremendously expensive to cover the hefty cost of the components plus Apple's margin. If they did a real TV it would also have to have display technologies from other companies, and in combination with their pricing strategy to avoid cannibalizing sales of their existing displays and keep it in a logical progression of price points to feature sets, the Apple "TV" would have to be more expensive than the $1800 30-inch Cinema HD. So if it's a 40" Cinema HD Apple TV what do you think it's going to cost... $2000? Hah... stick in a QAM/8VSB tuner in there, the hefty cost of an aluminum casing for a 40 inch TV, and feature sets on par with any 40" LCD and Apple's price point will easily reach well over $3000 for a TV that can't compete with Sony's SXRD XBR Liquid Crystal on Silicon displays that are far superior to LCD.

Leave people the freedom to pick whatever the hell TV they want to go with the one AppleTV unit... and keep Apple out of the hairy maintenance issues associated with some flatscreen TV's. That's another thing... the costs of supporting the initial one year warranty on a full blown TV could be unpredictable for Apple.

AppleTV is so idiot proof to connect to any HDTV that it defies their sense of industrial design to incorporate it into the display. In fact, displays should be flexible... dumb.. simple... designed to display whatever source is input to it. All the "computing" tasks should be left to external devices like a computer or an AppleTV box.

Yes, existing cable converters and DVR's have idiotic ergonomics when it comes to their menuing systems but my thought is that AppleTV will spur a change in all that... twofold:

1. Improvements in UI.

2. Internet distributed a-la carte programming.

These will gradually become the norm, add to that:

3. The LAN as home entertainment/lifestyle backbone.

One thing that does make sense to integrate into a display is a camera... simply because of the ergonomics and the basic concept of WYSIWYG. If I'm videoconferencing, it makes most sense to look directly into the display. This is why Apple is researching the development of displays whose surface area acts as the camera instead of having a pinhole camera atop it. THIS makes sense... again because the input/output are symmetrical. I'm looking at the display, the display is looking at me.

AppleTV however serves multiple purposes... music and video. So which device do you integrate it in? A receiver? A TV? A preamplifier?

The microsoft answer would be to stick it in all of them with a mediocre implementation that makes them cost effective.

The Apple answer is to forget shoehorning them into other devices and focus on one sharply designed standalone that can interact with all those other components easily.
 

05elstonc

macrumors regular
Sep 21, 2006
124
0
Miami
The problem with adding a bigger hard drive is you also have to keep the data on your mac. It is not like you can just store the content on the AppleTV like a server, because of the sync function it wants to replicate your mac. It is not intended to be a home server of content. Adding a larger drive would simply mean you would also have to keep more on your own box. Now as hardrives in laptops continues to increase they can bump up the hard drive space, but I do not see Apple drastically increasing the size for the Apple TV.
 

Avatar74

macrumors 68000
Feb 5, 2007
1,608
402
Not only that, but there's a limit to how many boxes one can plug into one's TV. I'm all full, myself.

Doesn't it make more sense to actually eliminate the DVD paradigm entirely?

Optical media are inherently slow. As flash drives decrease in cost and increase in capacity, there lies the potential for tremendously fast read/write to support formats like 1080p and beyond.

The future is a product development path that slowly migrates people away from the fixed media concept to a flexible media concept: LAN as backbone, nonlinear drive storage for multiple content type.

The idea is to reinforce digital content as one type of information... digital data... which is best served by a computer system that can process digital data regardless of the content type and support additional content types by way of software upgrades.

Instead of trying to build Apple Gizmotrons that have every conceivable bell and whistle, port, knob, jack, slot, drive, antenna, etc. looking like something Bill Gates designed on a cocaine binge... It makes far more sense to reduce the task of digital processing to one coherent solution that harnesses the collective storage and computing power of the ubiquitous computer network and funnels it into your home entertainment system.

In a nutshell, this is the construct:

One box... One medium... All content.

Yeah... I'm trademarking that.
 

Avatar74

macrumors 68000
Feb 5, 2007
1,608
402
The problem with adding a bigger hard drive is you also have to keep the data on your mac. It is not like you can just store the content on the AppleTV like a server, because of the sync function it wants to replicate your mac. It is not intended to be a home server of content. Adding a larger drive would simply mean you would also have to keep more on your own box. Now as hardrives in laptops continues to increase they can bump up the hard drive space, but I do not see Apple drastically increasing the size for the Apple TV.

I agree. I have 750 gigabytes of storage on my network and I can stream 720p to the AppleTV over 802.11g no problem. When the idea behind AppleTV is basically a dumb terminal that allows access to content over the network it makes no sense to turn it into a computer when there are already other computers, e.g. Mac Mini, you can connect to your TV if what you want is a PC in the living room.
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
4,155
442
.. London ..
The problem with adding a bigger hard drive is you also have to keep the data on your mac. It is not like you can just store the content on the AppleTV like a server, because of the sync function it wants to replicate your mac.

That actually wouldn't be a problem for me at all. I'd love to have all the data on my laptop / mac replicated on an external drive as backup in case i loose my laptop / drive crash.

Professionals will have far too much data, but they will use professional solutions.

For the home user, a 300 / 500 GB drive in a slightly larger ATV, working invisibly and automatically to backup everything, several revisions deep (with Time Machine etc) would be an amazing solution.

There are current solutions but they're not invisible / end-to-end apple.
 

sishaw

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2005
1,147
19
Doesn't it make more sense to actually eliminate the DVD paradigm entirely?

Optical media are inherently slow. As flash drives decrease in cost and increase in capacity, there lies the potential for tremendously fast read/write to support formats like 1080p and beyond.

The future is a product development path that slowly migrates people away from the fixed media concept to a flexible media concept: LAN as backbone, nonlinear drive storage for multiple content type.

The idea is to reinforce digital content as one type of information... digital data... which is best served by a computer system that can process digital data regardless of the content type and support additional content types by way of software upgrades.

Instead of trying to build Apple Gizmotrons that have every conceivable bell and whistle, port, knob, jack, slot, drive, antenna, etc. looking like something Bill Gates designed on a cocaine binge... It makes far more sense to reduce the task of digital processing to one coherent solution that harnesses the collective storage and computing power of the ubiquitous computer network and funnels it into your home entertainment system.

In a nutshell, this is the construct:

One box... One medium... All content.

Yeah... I'm trademarking that.

Someday, dude, someday.
 

Avatar74

macrumors 68000
Feb 5, 2007
1,608
402
That actually wouldn't be a problem for me at all. I'd love to have all the data on my laptop / mac replicated on an external drive as backup in case i loose my laptop / drive crash.

Professionals will have far too much data, but they will use professional solutions.

For the home user, a 300 / 500 GB drive in a slightly larger ATV, working invisibly and automatically to backup everything, several revisions deep (with Time Machine etc) would be an amazing solution.

There are current solutions but they're not invisible / end-to-end apple.

Why would you do backups to a fanless device that generates a tremendous amount of heat and therefore has a hard drive more likely to fail than a proper standalone backup drive? ...and by the way are essentially inaccessible if your synched computer's hard drive fails...you can't copy the content from AppleTV back to another machine... at least not without considerable hacking, but who knows how the data is encrypted on the AppleTV. Instead of paying extra for the AppleTV with the bigger drive, you'd be far better off buying an external firewire backup drive.
 

kcroy

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2006
129
0
Ohio
Apple TV Brings computer to your living room

I'm excited to hear this rumor of the possible widget-like utilities for ATV. I have been suggesting since it's release that ATV will bring the computer to our living rooms. Who wouldn't want to quickly check stocks, weather, etc. quickly without leaving the living room. I go from room to room all the time now. Great idea! The only thing we haven't heard is how we're going to check email during commercial breaks. I think this will happen too. Is there a widget that does that already?

How exciting! Can't wait for Leopard. To the ATV nay-sayers..."You haven't seen anything yet!"
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
4,155
442
.. London ..
Why would you do backups to a fanless device that generates a tremendous amount of heat and therefore has a hard drive more likely to fail than a proper standalone backup drive?

That's why I said a slightly larger one. One that takes a 3.5 inch drive anywat.

You'd be far better off buying an external firewire backup drive.

You're contradicting yourself here. Many of them don't have fans either.

...and by the way are essentially inaccessible if your synched computer's hard drive fails...you can't copy the content from AppleTV back to another machine... at least not without considerable hacking, but who knows how the data is encrypted on the AppleTV.

That's easily changeable in a simple software update. I never said that the backed up files should be kept in an obscure encrypted format.

A 500GB ATV could backup a whole family's laptops in one go, or a laptop plus a (not too full) iMac. Simplicity, for people who don't know what a NAS is.
 

mrparet

macrumors member
Jun 29, 2006
39
0
Apple will not put a DVD player OR add DVR functionality to the Apple TV. Why? Because they want you to buy all your content off the iTunes store.
 

kavika411

macrumors 6502a
Jan 8, 2006
617
3
Alabama
Speaking of what is reasonable, what is the consensus on how long Apple will wait before introducing a second :apple: TV? Even if they have a second one ready to go now - with a bigger hard drive, SDTV, or whatever - I'll bet you a donut they won't roll another one out for at least six months.
 

longofest

Editor emeritus
Jul 10, 2003
2,924
1,682
Falls Church, VA
Update to the story

Update: We have received a claim that LoopRumors was victim of a deliberate attempt to spread false information. Information cited from LoopRumors in this article should be regarded with extreme caution.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.